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Flyingconejo
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
908
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Posted - 2014.05.02 17:23:00 -
[31] - Quote
BURN JITA!
Damn, I can't reach it from here....
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MarasdF Loron
Fatal Absolution Dirt Nap Squad.
534
|
Posted - 2014.05.02 17:24:00 -
[32] - Quote
Stupid Blueberry wrote:Thanks for the recommendation. Aside from price, are gaming laptops okay? I'd like to be mobile with it. I have this and all the current day games run just fine on it.
R.I.P. Pre-1.7 Vehicles & AV, you will be missed.
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Meknow Intaki
176
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Posted - 2014.05.02 17:26:00 -
[33] - Quote
Who are you trying to convince? Me or you?! |
MarasdF Loron
Fatal Absolution Dirt Nap Squad.
534
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Posted - 2014.05.02 17:26:00 -
[34] - Quote
Jessica Montoya wrote:Stupid Blueberry wrote:Thanks for the recommendation. Aside from price, are gaming laptops okay? I'd like to be mobile with it. you can get a gaming laptop as good as almost any tower, but you will pay more than its tower equivalent for the mobility. (key word there is almost, because laptops can't perform as good as a tower withought becoming one itself) Indeed, the keyword is almost because they cannot handle the heat generation in such a compact size.
R.I.P. Pre-1.7 Vehicles & AV, you will be missed.
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Icarus DelSol
BIG BAD W0LVES Canis Eliminatus Operatives
41
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Posted - 2014.05.02 17:27:00 -
[35] - Quote
Funkmaster Whale wrote:All you guys crying about how DUST is dead are seriously failing to realize the big picture here.
Let's face it, DUST has evolved very little over the past year. Yeah, we've had a few new maps, weapons, the like, but nothing in terms of actual gameplay that truly revolutionized the way we play this game. This comes part and parcel with the fact that the PS3 just does not offer enough processing power to truly bring this game to the next-gen.
Now, some of you may say, "Why not just port it to the PS4!?" Yeah... and then what? When the PS4's turn is up do we just keep moving to the next console, constantly having to spend months/years of development time reworking everything for the next console to come? That's nonsense. Consoles are simply not feasible for designing the type of game CCP is dreaming of, and I'm entirely with them. PCs have been in the running through all the console wars and not once has anyone claimed "The PC is dead" with any serious merit.
Consider also this, much of the reason that we don't see updates nearly as often as we'd like is due to CCP's relation with Sony. If you didn't already know, CCP has to have their patches "approved" by Sony QA before it can be unleashed to the public. This creates a load of issues between CCP and the players in terms of allowing them to get active feedback from their updates and in turn acting on that feedback. On the PC, CCP could easily release updates on their Test server and adequately test them prior to releasing them to the public. There's just so much more possibility between CCP and player feedback that will be possible with a PC port. Literally everything that was stopping them from envisioning DUST on the PS3 is nonexistent on the PC, barring current technological restrictions.
The PC will be able to handle infinitely better graphics that can STILL be turned down if you run a low-end PC. Every PC game offers graphical settings and modifying config files to allow you to play games even with a crappy computer. CCP will no longer have to worry about technical limitations on maps or limiting this game to 16v16 because of memory restrictions, processing power, etc. We'll finally be able to have massive scale battles that will look beautiful and truly give an immersive experience.
I know a lot of you are crying because you want CCP to magically make DUST work on the PS3, but the reality is that it just doesn't. The PS3 doesn't offer enough leverage to the developers to truly allow them to do what they want. By switching to PC, CCP devs are now free to experiment with so much more and in turn give us a greater experience.
In short, stop living in the past clinging to false hope. Accept reality and the fact that DUST on the PS3 is not feasible. Yes it's a slap in the face to the people who are devoted consolites and have played this game for years, but the time is nigh to take DUST into the future.
I apologize earlier for shoving it in your face, but this is my best attempt at an objective analysis on why CCP is doing what they're doing, and I truly believe it's the right way forward and will continue to support them.
It's less about not wanting to buy a new PC or stay on the PS3 and more about feeling like I've been misled (intentionally or not is basically irrelevant in this case). The fact is that many of us stayed with Dust through some rough builds because of the promise of things to come and the continuity of our characters through that process. Logibro has said they'll try their best, but that it may not be possible to port our toons over to Legion for a whole variety of reasons. I expected to play Icarus for longer than a year or two, and if I'd known this was coming I'd have capped my spending at $59.99 as if it were any other FPS that you play for a year or two and drop.
In the end I'm glad they're trying to give us what they promised, I just think if they can't port our characters over or give us something to show for our time and money I don't think I'll be playing Legion. |
DJINN Loki
149
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Posted - 2014.05.02 17:33:00 -
[36] - Quote
right on the money Funkmaster Whale. i agree with you completely. while I'm saddened about the whole situation, i enjoyed every minute i spent on dust and i don't regret buying all the packs they had available. ill still keep playing dust and once legion becomes available, ill move over to that. hope to see you guys there
word
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Obodiah Garro
Tech Guard RISE of LEGION
1022
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Posted - 2014.05.02 17:35:00 -
[37] - Quote
loki you scrub
Nemo me impune lacessit
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Chibi Andy
Forsaken Immortals Top Men.
1213
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Posted - 2014.05.02 17:38:00 -
[38] - Quote
Sourdough Muffins wrote:I think people are more mad because they feel that their trust has been betrayed. They spent lots of time and in some cases hundreds of dollars for THIS game. Personally, I don't care much for Legion. This game has ruined CCP's reputation in many peoples eyes.
Dust was the 1st game i've played from CCP and to be honest im disappointed with them now and i feel that they as a company is full of S-H-I-T. once dust dies then its goodbye CCP and hope that they fall into bankruptcy
YOU HAVE BEEN SCANNED!!!
sç+a¦át¢èa¦á)sç+
(pâÄa¦át¢èa¦á)pâÄs+íGö+GöüGö+
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Zahle Undt
Bullet Cluster Lokun Listamenn
1475
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Posted - 2014.05.02 17:51:00 -
[39] - Quote
As far as the PC vs console argument goes. Moving from console to console (particularly PS4 to PS5 for example) isn't much different from having to upgrade ones PC from the consumer side and having to update your game for new OS on the developer side I think.
Can Eve run today on a rig one started playing it on 10 years ago or would an Eve player from a decade ago have to have bought a new PC or at the very least spent a new console's wroth of money upgrading theirs?
Honestly, they could announce a PS4 version tomorrow and I might still be done with Dust and CCP for the ****** way they announced what they are doing and for this bullshit of calling Legion a different game and saying Dust is a finished product that wouldn't be receiving more major updates.
http://www.digitalspy.com/gaming/news/a568488/dust-514-sees-no-planned-updates-scraps-survival-mode-and-vita-app.html#~oD85Vv2Dx3JYZv
Are you people planning on playing Legion really going to trust and give money to the company that gave us the "10 year road map" and "laser focused on PS3"?
I wouldn't invest too much time and energy on Legion people. CCP will not see the end of its second decade the way it is going.
Most tankers are like sand people. They frighten easily, but will quickly return...and in greater numbers.
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Yan Darn
Science For Death Final Resolution.
758
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Posted - 2014.05.02 18:03:00 -
[40] - Quote
Point
OP
Head
I'm doing stuff with my hands to indicate the OP has:
A) completely failed to grasp what the issue at hand is.
Or
B) just wants to convince console players that they should not have played a console game (as if no one plays games on Both PCs and Consoles ffs) and gloat over its failure because of some weird devotion to a particular piece of technology.
CCP said stuff. Stuff that indicated this game had a future. CCP implies that this future will be elaborated on at Fanfest. CCP rather unceremoniously says 'erm yeh that stuff we said about the future - not happening'.
The feasibility isn't really the point - I too was doubtful about what could be acheived on PS3. I'm not exactly surprised this wasn't acheivable in the end. I only thought it was because a company which I had respect for indicated otherwise.
The point is, CCPs behaviour isn't a good example of honesty and integrity. These things are important for a business.
The rage and threats are of course unnecessary and childish. But they are not raging because they are console gamers and DUST is basically going to the PC - only a sad, narrowminded moron who gets wet at the thought of upgrading his graphics card would think that.
The Ghost of Bravo
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Autoaim Bot514
The Hetairoi
154
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Posted - 2014.05.02 18:05:00 -
[41] - Quote
You an build better than that for chraper. |
Space Marine One
Rebels New Republic INTERGALACTIC WARPIGS
21
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Posted - 2014.05.02 18:17:00 -
[42] - Quote
Spark Kincade wrote:Space Marine One wrote:lol cmon now that just false advertisement this is about 2x weaker than the ps4. and don't think it would even run legion properly at low setting. and $459 for pc just to play legion lol not wroth it. a better deal is to get a PS4 and got for Black light retribution or planet side 2 This is a way better article: Gamespot: Can We Build a Gaming PC on a Console Budget?Then go to Reddit Software Swap and get Windows 8 for ~$20. You can get a PC that outperforms the PS4 for ~$500. When the PS3 cam out you needed to spend like $1500 on a PC to match it, times have changed.
Still sticking with the idea of getting a ps4 out box day 1 its already completely setup, no hassle, no headache for the next 10 years
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Kaminoikari
DROID EXILES Proficiency V.
204
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Posted - 2014.05.02 18:32:00 -
[43] - Quote
Funkmaster Whale wrote:ScrubSpeak
And say we stuck with the PS4, we're still stuck with CCP having to do everything through Sony which already creates a lot of limitations. With the PC, instead of "monthly" iterations, we could have weekly if not daily bugfixes and tweaks so we don't have to deal with OP nonsense for months before it gets fixed in a proper patch.
ScrubSpeak
Quote:And say we stuck with the PS4, we're still stuck with CCP having to do everything through Sony which already creates a lot of limitations.
Sony stated that MMO developers/companies would not have to pass through a certification process to update their games. Why do you think Planetside 2, DCUO, Warframe, War Thunder, Blacklight: Retribution and others are porting to PS4? Because of a cert process? You're the dumbest scrub I've met in a long while. Go read up on Sony's PS4 policies before you begin your false statements.
I'm even going to /thread my own post because you're ignorant about the topic.
/thread
Dropships need a buff. This way they can stop derping everywhere . ;_;
>Tfw no Amarr dropship and laser turrets
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Funkmaster Whale
Ancient Exiles.
2042
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Posted - 2014.05.02 18:36:00 -
[44] - Quote
I shortened your post a bit since that's all I got from it.
You sound a bit angry. Please, go on. It's pretty amusing to see just how worked up people get over video games
Follow me on Twitch.tv!
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Shadow of War88
0uter.Heaven
241
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Posted - 2014.05.02 18:38:00 -
[45] - Quote
STFU
& justice for all
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Funkmaster Whale
Ancient Exiles.
2046
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Posted - 2014.05.02 18:40:00 -
[46] - Quote
Shadow of War88 wrote:STFU Ahhh the Kingpin himself has arrived.
Follow me on Twitch.tv!
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Kaminoikari
DROID EXILES Proficiency V.
204
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Posted - 2014.05.02 18:44:00 -
[47] - Quote
Funkmaster Whale wrote:I shortened your post a bit since that's all I got from it. You sound a bit angry. Please, go on. It's pretty amusing to see just how worked up people get over video games
Your constant ignorance further proves my point. My post sounded angry simply because you've placed it in your mind that everyone who doesn't support your OP is wrong and mad. Please, continue to delude yourself, we psychology people enjoy it.
Lrn2Research
Dropships need a buff. This way they can stop derping everywhere . ;_;
>Tfw no Amarr dropship and laser turrets
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Yan Darn
Science For Death Final Resolution.
762
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Posted - 2014.05.02 18:46:00 -
[48] - Quote
Funkmaster Whale wrote:I shortened your post a bit since that's all I got from it. You sound a bit angry. Please, go on. It's pretty amusing to see just how worked up people get over video games products and services
Fixed.
I could understand if we were talking about a something getting nerfed/buffed or an ISK reset or something. I can also appreciate this is a ridiculously good trolling opportunity. I also think a lot of the rage here is plainly ridiculous and pathetic.
Your posts and responses however, are just a little...sad.
We all have fun in our own ways I guess...
The Ghost of Bravo
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Vinsarrow
New Eden Blades Of The Azure Zero-Day
269
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Posted - 2014.05.02 18:50:00 -
[49] - Quote
Yet some people are console mainly. People are locked on console due to friends & etc. playing on 2-3 consoles ain't going to happen in this age of subscription fees.
Dust is dead. Watch it become Dust literally. |
Roy Ventus
Axis of Chaos
1752
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Posted - 2014.05.02 18:54:00 -
[50] - Quote
DeeJay One wrote:Funkmaster Whale wrote: Now, some of you may say, "Why not just port it to the PS4!?" Yeah... and then what? When the PS4's turn is up do we just keep moving to the next console, constantly having to spend months/years of development time reworking everything for the next console to come? That's nonsense. Consoles are simply not feasible for designing the type of game CCP is dreaming of, and I'm entirely with them. PCs have been in the running through all the console wars and not once has anyone claimed "The PC is dead" with any serious merit.
PC is no different than a console, but you essentially have to buy a new console every 2 years instead of 5-6. Games also need rework, to accommodate new technologies like DX11/Mantle or stay with sub par graphics (see WoW, TF2) because their playerbase doesn't have new gear. IMHO it's not really an argument...
You don't have to buy a console in every two years... That's a lie told by PC fans. Even back I the day that didn't happen. As we progress consoles take much longer to come out. PS4 took what? Seven years? We don't share the same custom ability and versatility as PCs but we're cheaper and easier to maintain for the common man.
"There once was a time when there wasn't a Roy Ventus and it wasn't much of a time at all."
http://royventus.tumblr.com
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Funkmaster Whale
Ancient Exiles.
2047
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Posted - 2014.05.02 18:54:00 -
[51] - Quote
Kaminoikari wrote:Funkmaster Whale wrote:I shortened your post a bit since that's all I got from it. You sound a bit angry. Please, go on. It's pretty amusing to see just how worked up people get over video games Your constant ignorance further proves my point. My post sounded angry simply because you've placed it in your mind that everyone who doesn't support your OP is wrong and mad. Please, continue to delude yourself, we psychology people enjoy it. Lrn2Research I'll even edit this: You annotated the word "scrub" and "scrubspeak" to negative meanings. So GG some more. And you're so narrow minded to believe that the point of this thread rests on a single point that you corrected me on. But honestly, why even bother trying to argue.
Angry people will be angry for reasons beyond me while the rest of us will casually move on and experience whatever new entertainment CCP has to offer. After all, that's all it really is. If you make it anything more than that then you are the one who is deluding yourself.
A company decides that its best decision would be to move forward by starting anew on a better platform and everyone goes up in arms about it. I don't see how people, even having spent money, should feel any sort of an entitlement to a FREE GAME. If you spent money on the game, that's your issue alone. You spent money that you saw increased the value of entertainment from this game. CCP doesn't owe you anything because of it besides what they already offered and promised you for that money. Your $20 worth of boosters doesn't entitle you to tell a company what it can and cannot do.
Follow me on Twitch.tv!
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Kaminoikari
DROID EXILES Proficiency V.
204
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Posted - 2014.05.02 18:57:00 -
[52] - Quote
Roy Ventus wrote:DeeJay One wrote:Funkmaster Whale wrote: Now, some of you may say, "Why not just port it to the PS4!?" Yeah... and then what? When the PS4's turn is up do we just keep moving to the next console, constantly having to spend months/years of development time reworking everything for the next console to come? That's nonsense. Consoles are simply not feasible for designing the type of game CCP is dreaming of, and I'm entirely with them. PCs have been in the running through all the console wars and not once has anyone claimed "The PC is dead" with any serious merit.
PC is no different than a console, but you essentially have to buy a new console every 2 years instead of 5-6. Games also need rework, to accommodate new technologies like DX11/Mantle or stay with sub par graphics (see WoW, TF2) because their playerbase doesn't have new gear. IMHO it's not really an argument... You don't have to buy a console in every two years... That's a lie told by PC fans. Even back I the day that didn't happen. As we progress consoles take much longer to come out. PS4 took what? Seven years? We don't share the same custom ability and versatility as PCs but we're cheaper and easier to maintain for the common man.
Don't forget to add that consoles are made by design to play games (and now have more "social" options, making it slightly more like a PC). This means it's cheaper because everything is made to work for the games and not extraneous bullshite like background processes (such as Windows has running at all times). Sure, one could make a "better" PC than a PS4 with ~$500. That doesn't mean it will actually be better. The PC said person made will not be optimized to the best of its ability for gaming and never will be simply because of the OS used (either Macintosh's shite OS or Windows').
Dropships need a buff. This way they can stop derping everywhere . ;_;
>Tfw no Amarr dropship and laser turrets
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Kaminoikari
DROID EXILES Proficiency V.
204
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Posted - 2014.05.02 19:00:00 -
[53] - Quote
Funkmaster Whale wrote:Kaminoikari wrote:Funkmaster Whale wrote:I shortened your post a bit since that's all I got from it. You sound a bit angry. Please, go on. It's pretty amusing to see just how worked up people get over video games Your constant ignorance further proves my point. My post sounded angry simply because you've placed it in your mind that everyone who doesn't support your OP is wrong and mad. Please, continue to delude yourself, we psychology people enjoy it. Lrn2Research I'll even edit this: You annotated the word "scrub" and "scrubspeak" to negative meanings. So GG some more. And you're so narrow minded to believe that the point of this thread rests on a single point that you corrected me on. But honestly, why even bother trying to argue. Angry people will be angry for reasons beyond me while the rest of us will casually move on and experience whatever new entertainment CCP has to offer. After all, that's all it really is. If you make it anything more than that then you are the one who is deluding yourself. A company decides that its best decision would be to move forward by starting anew on a better platform and everyone goes up in arms about it. I don't see how people, even having spent money, should feel any sort of an entitlement to a FREE GAME. If you spent money on the game, that's your issue alone. You spent money that you saw increased the value of entertainment from this game. CCP doesn't owe you anything because of it besides what they already offered and promised you for that money. Your $20 worth of boosters doesn't entitle you to tell a company what it can and cannot do.
Actually, half of the people bought boosters and such to advance themselves, the other half bought shit to support the game. Which means what they (CCP) did was literally bait and switch, but I guess you can't comprehend that. This has nothing to do with it being on the PC. I couldn't give any less fucks about that. It's, as I and others have stated, that we paid money to support the game and they Jew everyone over.
Dropships need a buff. This way they can stop derping everywhere . ;_;
>Tfw no Amarr dropship and laser turrets
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Aklyon Tekli
0
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Posted - 2014.05.02 19:05:00 -
[54] - Quote
DeeJay One wrote:PC is no different than a console, but you essentially have to buy a new console every 2 years instead of 5-6.
Uh, no. The only time you need to upgrade your desktop is when you're no longer getting acceptable performance out of it. And individual parts are cheap unless you're getting a GTX Titan for some absurd reason. if you're buying a new computer entirely that often then either you've got a ton of money to spend or you're too lazy to learn how to solve the moderately simple puzzle of hardware maintenance.
Quote:Games also need rework, to accommodate new technologies like DX11/Mantle or stay with sub par graphics (see WoW, TF2) because their playerbase doesn't have new gear. IMHO it's not really an argument... DX9 is still perfectly acceptable, or DX10. Or OpenGL. or Unity, etc, etc. WoW has subpar graphics because art is expensive and blizz is paying attention to hearthstone and not their ancient subscription-based moneymaker, TF2's graphics are irrelevant because its built on the source engine and that thing runs on damn-near anything you'll throw at it. |
Sequal Rise
Les Desanusseurs
15
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Posted - 2014.05.02 19:09:00 -
[55] - Quote
Hey guys, we're talking about ccp here. And they created this "New" game in 3-4 months! Why would you need a good computer? It's gonna be **** as always, and a good computer won't change anything! |
NIETZCHES OVERMAN
Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation
19
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Posted - 2014.05.02 19:14:00 -
[56] - Quote
Funkmaster Whale wrote:All you guys crying about how DUST is dead are seriously failing to realize the big picture here.
Let's face it, DUST has evolved very little over the past year. Yeah, we've had a few new maps, weapons, the like, but nothing in terms of actual gameplay that truly revolutionized the way we play this game. This comes part and parcel with the fact that the PS3 just does not offer enough processing power to truly bring this game to the next-gen.
Now, some of you may say, "Why not just port it to the PS4!?" Yeah... and then what? When the PS4's turn is up do we just keep moving to the next console, constantly having to spend months/years of development time reworking everything for the next console to come? That's nonsense. Consoles are simply not feasible for designing the type of game CCP is dreaming of, and I'm entirely with them. PCs have been in the running through all the console wars and not once has anyone claimed "The PC is dead" with any serious merit.
Consider also this, much of the reason that we don't see updates nearly as often as we'd like is due to CCP's relation with Sony. If you didn't already know, CCP has to have their patches "approved" by Sony QA before it can be unleashed to the public. This creates a load of issues between CCP and the players in terms of allowing them to get active feedback from their updates and in turn acting on that feedback. On the PC, CCP could easily release updates on their Test server and adequately test them prior to releasing them to the public. There's just so much more possibility between CCP and player feedback that will be possible with a PC port. Literally everything that was stopping them from envisioning DUST on the PS3 is nonexistent on the PC, barring current technological restrictions.
The PC will be able to handle infinitely better graphics that can STILL be turned down if you run a low-end PC. Every PC game offers graphical settings and modifying config files to allow you to play games even with a crappy computer. CCP will no longer have to worry about technical limitations on maps or limiting this game to 16v16 because of memory restrictions, processing power, etc. We'll finally be able to have massive scale battles that will look beautiful and truly give an immersive experience.
I know a lot of you are crying because you want CCP to magically make DUST work on the PS3, but the reality is that it just doesn't. The PS3 doesn't offer enough leverage to the developers to truly allow them to do what they want. By switching to PC, CCP devs are now free to experiment with so much more and in turn give us a greater experience.
In short, stop living in the past clinging to false hope. Accept reality and the fact that DUST on the PS3 is not feasible. Yes it's a slap in the face to the people who are devoted consolites and have played this game for years, but the time is nigh to take DUST into the future.
I apologize earlier for shoving it in your face, but this is my best attempt at an objective analysis on why CCP is doing what they're doing, and I truly believe it's the right way forward and will continue to support them. And what of our time and money investment? Our characters? We just say **** it? |
GeneralButtNaked
Fatal Absolution
1018
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Posted - 2014.05.02 19:16:00 -
[57] - Quote
If Dust is not dead, you want to trade my Dust ISK for Eve ISK?
Real AV doesn't stop until all the tanks are dead.
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Justice Prevails
257
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Posted - 2014.05.02 19:28:00 -
[58] - Quote
The question is why would I want to invest $500 in a PC , for a game made by a company that just took a crap on the 150 bucks and the year I spent playing their last game? This is not anger, this is just business sense. CCP is not a horse to bet on.
Embracing my inner scrub since 2013.
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Thumb Green
The Valyrian Guard
1057
|
Posted - 2014.05.02 19:28:00 -
[59] - Quote
The only hindrance caused by the PS3 was the fact that CCP doesn't know how to program a game for it.
Support Orbital Spawns
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Yan Darn
Science For Death Final Resolution.
765
|
Posted - 2014.05.02 19:29:00 -
[60] - Quote
Funkmaster Whale wrote:Kaminoikari wrote:Funkmaster Whale wrote:I shortened your post a bit since that's all I got from it. You sound a bit angry. Please, go on. It's pretty amusing to see just how worked up people get over video games Your constant ignorance further proves my point. My post sounded angry simply because you've placed it in your mind that everyone who doesn't support your OP is wrong and mad. Please, continue to delude yourself, we psychology people enjoy it. Lrn2Research I'll even edit this: You annotated the word "scrub" and "scrubspeak" to negative meanings. So GG some more. And you're so narrow minded to believe that the point of this thread rests on a single point that you corrected me on. But honestly, why even bother trying to argue. Angry people will be angry for reasons beyond me while the rest of us will casually move on and experience whatever new entertainment CCP has to offer. After all, that's all it really is. If you make it anything more than that then you are the one who is deluding yourself. A company decides that its best decision would be to move forward by starting anew on a better platform and everyone goes up in arms about it. I don't see how people, even having spent money, should feel any sort of an entitlement to a FREE GAME. If you spent money on the game, that's your issue alone. You spent money that you saw increased the value of entertainment from this game. CCP doesn't owe you anything because of it besides what they already offered and promised you for that money. Your $20 worth of boosters doesn't entitle you to tell a company what it can and cannot do.
I think this is because they implied precisely the opposite. All the way up to the annoument.
While it was an obvious possibility that was a calculated attempt to maintain interest (and thus whatever meager gains they must make on it) - unless you are just saying 'durrrr well obviously companies will do anything [legal] in order to make money' it really is difficult to grasp what the point of your post and this thread is.
I mean I thought troll, but you genuinely seem to have a degree of personal and emotional interest in the current situation.
The Ghost of Bravo
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