DUST Search - Saga II is OP

EternalRMG wrote:

SoTa PoP wrote:

Foundation Seldon wrote:

It's really not as good as the Methana for a number of reasons.

The Hardener doesn't mean anything if/when your shields are stripped off in the first shot vs. the Methana's ability to react to threats and put up their hardeners while a decent armor base remains. The Saga gives up its useful High slot modules for tank only to just become comparable to the Methana without anything fitted, the Methana can then equip Scanners / Nitrous and sacrifice nothing in the process. The Methana can quickly and easily heal both its shield and armor base (really a problem with high shield regen rates as a whole for all vehicles) where as equipping an armor repair on a Saga gimps the fit.

Shield Boosters are still bugged and there are no useful utility based Low Slot modules that would make losing the high slots for Tank worthwhile.

The main reasons in a nutshell.

I see your point, but your still going to struggle in comparison to a good Saga II driver. Your reps aren't nearly as strong as the built in reps Saga II is blessed with, literally seconds to get back into the game.

And the only thing that can strip the shields MOSTLY off the Saga II is a full damage modded rail gun proto, Normal rails don't even get past 5% dmg on shields, seriously. Blasters can't possibly kill the saga, it's literally not possible with the built in harden on. They'd over-heat, and they'd have to keep aim on us.

Methana only really has speed going for it, it's survivability is more dependent on avoiding danger to begin with then just shrugging off hits and keep on going.

But I must ask someone to throw on armor hardeners on a methane with a plate to test if it can be one shooted - I didn't have enough Sp to try and don't know anyone else who specced into it.

My math says it would be, though. Shield gaining another damage resist bonus to rails.

I have it plus armor fitting optimisation on 5

The Test will cost you 1M

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SoTa PoP Heaven's Lost Property Dirt Nap Squad. 4565	Posted - 2014.04.29 00:48:00 - [1] - Quote Seriously, it isn't. It's perfect, right on the money. A triple damage modded rail tank can't even kill it, and if the drivers smart, it's even harder, terrain works in favor of speed and a smart player. And that shield rep? To die for. Incase you guys are wondering why the Saga II is op - The build in harden gives 60% resistance to all damage for shields. Throw on one complex shield extender, you've got yourself a new Logi-LAV. I hadn't planned on sharing this - but I wouldn't mind seeing more LAV's out there letting tanks know they're about as scary to us as Minmatar Heavy. For those who spec further into it - maybe you can actually use the low slot - I can't, but don't need it. n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++ I watch anime for the plot
Denchlad 7 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 196	Posted - 2014.04.29 00:51:00 - [2] - Quote I thought you were gonna say its OP because its twice as good as the Saga. ... Never really looked at the Saga II since I never spec'd back into it. Loved the thing so could be fun. Was attempting to proto every weapon a bad idea? Yes. 12 so far If you can't accept change, you will fail in this world
Patrick57 7176	Posted - 2014.04.29 00:51:00 - [3] - Quote Well, you're in DNS, so of course you'd use the most OP thing in the game. Hell is empty and all the devils are here. -William Shakespeare
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 3547	Posted - 2014.04.29 00:56:00 - [4] - Quote I'm skilling into LAVs as my next project. Level 3 Forum Warrior
Yoma Carrim Kinsho Swords Caldari State 461	Posted - 2014.04.29 01:02:00 - [5] - Quote hmmm go'na need to check this out If so I have a 20gj Railgun that needs a home. Oh Heck Logi, Tanker, Heavy
Zaaeed Massani RisingSuns Dark Taboo 371	Posted - 2014.04.29 01:07:00 - [6] - Quote I quite enjoy my Methana with a nitro and heavy armor repper. Minmatar & Gallente A.R.C. Program Instructor / Do you even lift?
SoTa PoP Heaven's Lost Property Dirt Nap Squad. 4566	Posted - 2014.04.29 01:08:00 - [7] - Quote Zaaeed Massani wrote: I quite enjoy my Methana with a nitro and heavy armor repper. *Watches it get one shotted I'm sure that tank enjoyed your Methana too. n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++ I watch anime for the plot
Foundation Seldon Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 632	Posted - 2014.04.29 01:10:00 - [8] - Quote It's really not as good as the Methana for a number of reasons. The Hardener doesn't mean anything if/when your shields are stripped off in the first shot vs. the Methana's ability to react to threats and put up their hardeners while a decent armor base remains. The Saga gives up its useful High slot modules for tank only to just become comparable to the Methana without anything fitted, the Methana can then equip Scanners / Nitrous and sacrifice nothing in the process. The Methana can quickly and easily heal both its shield and armor base (really a problem with high shield regen rates as a whole for all vehicles) where as equipping an armor repair on a Saga gimps the fit. Shield Boosters are still bugged and there are no useful utility based Low Slot modules that would make losing the high slots for Tank worthwhile. The main reasons in a nutshell. Saga v. Methana Balance
SoTa PoP Heaven's Lost Property Dirt Nap Squad. 4567	Posted - 2014.04.29 01:12:00 - [9] - Quote Foundation Seldon wrote: It's really not as good as the Methana for a number of reasons. Nope, tried em both. Methana is nice if you put those reps on, but it can't prevent itself from being obliterated by good AV. Saga II - however, doesn't care what you do, you can't kill it. If you want to murder taxi, or safely get from point A to B with minimal chances of a mess up, Saga II is the way to go n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++ I watch anime for the plot
Foundation Seldon Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 632	Posted - 2014.04.29 01:14:00 - [10] - Quote SoTa PoP wrote: Foundation Seldon wrote: It's really not as good as the Methana for a number of reasons. Nope, tried em both. Methana is nice if you put those reps on, but it can't prevent itself from being obliterated by good AV. Saga II - however, doesn't care what you do, you can't kill it. If you want to murder taxi, or safely get from point A to B with minimal chances of a mess up, Saga II is the way to go I edited and expanded my points. Saga v. Methana Balance

Ridire Greine 402	Posted - 2014.04.29 01:15:00 - [11] - Quote Woah, thank god I bought hundreds of these things. Murder Taxi 2.0 here I come. "Jolly cooperation" Knight Solaire CEO. Farmer. Pubstomper. For those that can't figure it out. - Knight Soiaire
Zaaeed Massani RisingSuns Dark Taboo 371	Posted - 2014.04.29 01:15:00 - [12] - Quote SoTa PoP wrote: Zaaeed Massani wrote: I quite enjoy my Methana with a nitro and heavy armor repper. *Watches it get one shotted I'm sure that tank enjoyed your Methana too. Never been one shotted. Ever. Minmatar & Gallente A.R.C. Program Instructor / Do you even lift?
SoTa PoP Heaven's Lost Property Dirt Nap Squad. 4567	Posted - 2014.04.29 01:17:00 - [13] - Quote Zaaeed Massani wrote: SoTa PoP wrote: Zaaeed Massani wrote: I quite enjoy my Methana with a nitro and heavy armor repper. *Watches it get one shotted I'm sure that tank enjoyed your Methana too. Never been one shotted. Ever. I've tested it, you can be one shotted. Unless your willing to try and spec millions more SP into then I did and give a whirl with stacked plates, saga II barely requires any SP at all. n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++ I watch anime for the plot
SoTa PoP Heaven's Lost Property Dirt Nap Squad. 4568	Posted - 2014.04.29 01:20:00 - [14] - Quote Foundation Seldon wrote: It's really not as good as the Methana for a number of reasons. The Hardener doesn't mean anything if/when your shields are stripped off in the first shot vs. the Methana's ability to react to threats and put up their hardeners while a decent armor base remains. The Saga gives up its useful High slot modules for tank only to just become comparable to the Methana without anything fitted, the Methana can then equip Scanners / Nitrous and sacrifice nothing in the process. The Methana can quickly and easily heal both its shield and armor base (really a problem with high shield regen rates as a whole for all vehicles) where as equipping an armor repair on a Saga gimps the fit. Shield Boosters are still bugged and there are no useful utility based Low Slot modules that would make losing the high slots for Tank worthwhile. The main reasons in a nutshell. I see your point, but your still going to struggle in comparison to a good Saga II driver. Your reps aren't nearly as strong as the built in reps Saga II is blessed with, literally seconds to get back into the game. And the only thing that can strip the shields MOSTLY off the Saga II is a full damage modded rail gun proto, Normal rails don't even get past 5% dmg on shields, seriously. Blasters can't possibly kill the saga, it's literally not possible with the built in harden on. They'd over-heat, and they'd have to keep aim on us. Methana only really has speed going for it, it's survivability is more dependent on avoiding danger to begin with then just shrugging off hits and keep on going. But I must ask someone to throw on armor hardeners on a methane with a plate to test if it can be one shooted - I didn't have enough Sp to try and don't know anyone else who specced into it. My math says it would be, though. Shield gaining another damage resist bonus to rails. n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++ I watch anime for the plot
calisk galern BurgezzE.T.F General Tso's Alliance 2426	Posted - 2014.04.29 01:23:00 - [15] - Quote SoTa PoP wrote: Seriously, it isn't. It's perfect, right on the money. A triple damage modded rail tank can't even kill it, and if the drivers smart, it's even harder, terrain works in favor of speed and a smart player. And that shield rep? To die for. Incase you guys are wondering why the Saga II is op - The build in harden gives 60% resistance to all damage for shields. Throw on one complex shield extender, you've got yourself a new Logi-LAV. I hadn't planned on sharing this - but I wouldn't mind seeing more LAV's out there letting tanks know they're about as scary to us as Minmatar Heavy. For those who spec further into it - maybe you can actually use the low slot - I can't, but don't need it. i already specced into them and you are full of it ^^. as a triple damage rail tank I pop these things frequently before they even get their shield hardeners up. i'll give you that it usually takes two shots instead of 1 like other lav's but it's not that big of a deal.
Ridire Greine 402	Posted - 2014.04.29 01:24:00 - [16] - Quote It requires Level 3? Fuq that **** "Jolly cooperation" Knight Solaire CEO. Farmer. Pubstomper. For those that can't figure it out. - Knight Soiaire
EternalRMG KNIGHTZ OF THE ROUND Lokun Listamenn 884	Posted - 2014.04.29 01:25:00 - [17] - Quote SoTa PoP wrote: Foundation Seldon wrote: It's really not as good as the Methana for a number of reasons. The Hardener doesn't mean anything if/when your shields are stripped off in the first shot vs. the Methana's ability to react to threats and put up their hardeners while a decent armor base remains. The Saga gives up its useful High slot modules for tank only to just become comparable to the Methana without anything fitted, the Methana can then equip Scanners / Nitrous and sacrifice nothing in the process. The Methana can quickly and easily heal both its shield and armor base (really a problem with high shield regen rates as a whole for all vehicles) where as equipping an armor repair on a Saga gimps the fit. Shield Boosters are still bugged and there are no useful utility based Low Slot modules that would make losing the high slots for Tank worthwhile. The main reasons in a nutshell. I see your point, but your still going to struggle in comparison to a good Saga II driver. Your reps aren't nearly as strong as the built in reps Saga II is blessed with, literally seconds to get back into the game. And the only thing that can strip the shields MOSTLY off the Saga II is a full damage modded rail gun proto, Normal rails don't even get past 5% dmg on shields, seriously. Blasters can't possibly kill the saga, it's literally not possible with the built in harden on. They'd over-heat, and they'd have to keep aim on us. Methana only really has speed going for it, it's survivability is more dependent on avoiding danger to begin with then just shrugging off hits and keep on going. But I must ask someone to throw on armor hardeners on a methane with a plate to test if it can be one shooted - I didn't have enough Sp to try and don't know anyone else who specced into it. My math says it would be, though. Shield gaining another damage resist bonus to rails. I have it plus armor fitting optimisation on 5 The Test will cost you 1M BPOs for Sale Dust Player Since: July 2012 Best Assault Dropship Pilot in the Game
SoTa PoP Heaven's Lost Property Dirt Nap Squad. 4568	Posted - 2014.04.29 01:26:00 - [18] - Quote calisk galern wrote: SoTa PoP wrote: Seriously, it isn't. It's perfect, right on the money. A triple damage modded rail tank can't even kill it, and if the drivers smart, it's even harder, terrain works in favor of speed and a smart player. And that shield rep? To die for. Incase you guys are wondering why the Saga II is op - The build in harden gives 60% resistance to all damage for shields. Throw on one complex shield extender, you've got yourself a new Logi-LAV. I hadn't planned on sharing this - but I wouldn't mind seeing more LAV's out there letting tanks know they're about as scary to us as Minmatar Heavy. For those who spec further into it - maybe you can actually use the low slot - I can't, but don't need it. i already specced into them and you are full of it ^^. as a triple damage rail tank I pop these things frequently before they even get their shield hardeners up. i'll give you that it usually takes two shots instead of 1 like other lav's but it's not that big of a deal. if you got 3 dmg mods on a proto rail, you can one shot a saga 2 that's not modded up - but mods are what makes the difference so that argument is invalid. n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++ I watch anime for the plot
SoTa PoP Heaven's Lost Property Dirt Nap Squad. 4568	Posted - 2014.04.29 01:27:00 - [19] - Quote EternalRMG wrote: SoTa PoP wrote: Foundation Seldon wrote: It's really not as good as the Methana for a number of reasons. The Hardener doesn't mean anything if/when your shields are stripped off in the first shot vs. the Methana's ability to react to threats and put up their hardeners while a decent armor base remains. The Saga gives up its useful High slot modules for tank only to just become comparable to the Methana without anything fitted, the Methana can then equip Scanners / Nitrous and sacrifice nothing in the process. The Methana can quickly and easily heal both its shield and armor base (really a problem with high shield regen rates as a whole for all vehicles) where as equipping an armor repair on a Saga gimps the fit. Shield Boosters are still bugged and there are no useful utility based Low Slot modules that would make losing the high slots for Tank worthwhile. The main reasons in a nutshell. I see your point, but your still going to struggle in comparison to a good Saga II driver. Your reps aren't nearly as strong as the built in reps Saga II is blessed with, literally seconds to get back into the game. And the only thing that can strip the shields MOSTLY off the Saga II is a full damage modded rail gun proto, Normal rails don't even get past 5% dmg on shields, seriously. Blasters can't possibly kill the saga, it's literally not possible with the built in harden on. They'd over-heat, and they'd have to keep aim on us. Methana only really has speed going for it, it's survivability is more dependent on avoiding danger to begin with then just shrugging off hits and keep on going. But I must ask someone to throw on armor hardeners on a methane with a plate to test if it can be one shooted - I didn't have enough Sp to try and don't know anyone else who specced into it. My math says it would be, though. Shield gaining another damage resist bonus to rails. I have it plus armor fitting optimisation on 5 The Test will cost you 1M Record it and I'll throw you an extra 4mil n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++ I watch anime for the plot
Darken-Sol BIG BAD W0LVES Canis Eliminatus Operatives 1371	Posted - 2014.04.29 01:29:00 - [20] - Quote SoTa PoP wrote: Seriously, it isn't. It's perfect, right on the money. A triple damage modded rail tank can't even kill it, and if the drivers smart, it's even harder, terrain works in favor of speed and a smart player. And that shield rep? To die for. Incase you guys are wondering why the Saga II is op - The build in harden gives 60% resistance to all damage for shields. Throw on one complex shield extender, you've got yourself a new Logi-LAV. I hadn't planned on sharing this - but I wouldn't mind seeing more LAV's out there letting tanks know they're about as scary to us as Minmatar Heavy. For those who spec further into it - maybe you can actually use the low slot - I can't, but don't need it. It also seems to have the old physics, I haven't rolled one yet. That hardener is equal to an ADV with 0 fitting. Crush them

Cyrius Li-Moody 0uter.Heaven 5162	Posted - 2014.04.29 01:29:00 - [21] - Quote Personally I like the methana better than the Saga. Especially if you've got someone gunning. The terrain and random damage you get plus the shield mechanic is pretty annoying. You'll narrowly escape death but then you'll clip a hill, start barrel rolling and explode because of shield deplete delay where a methana with a heavy repper or a plate and repper will just rep through the damage and go about it's business. Saga might be a fun ride on the weekends but the methana is the better daily driver. :3 Youtuber. Your friendly neighborhood whiskey-fueled merc.
SoTa PoP Heaven's Lost Property Dirt Nap Squad. 4570	Posted - 2014.04.29 01:31:00 - [22] - Quote Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: Personally I like the methana better than the Saga. Especially if you've got someone gunning. The terrain and random damage you get plus the shield mechanic is pretty annoying. You'll narrowly escape death but then you'll clip a hill, start barrel rolling and explode because of shield deplete delay where a methana with a heavy repper or a plate and repper will just rep through the damage and go about it's business. It's preference in the end. It's just after testing, I found the Saga II to be the superior murder taxi. You can pop the mod on when you hop out to boundless someone, people tend to go for the murder taxi so they can prevent you from escaping... That's when they realize that was a mistake. n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++ I watch anime for the plot
ugg reset Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 575	Posted - 2014.04.29 01:37:00 - [23] - Quote well, time to spec back into LAVs Thr33 is the magic number.
Foundation Seldon Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 633	Posted - 2014.04.29 01:38:00 - [24] - Quote SoTa PoP wrote: I see your point, but your still going to struggle in comparison to a good Saga II driver. Your reps aren't nearly as strong as the built in reps Saga II is blessed with, literally seconds to get back into the game. The benefit is that the reps are always on compared to the Saga II which can be interrupted / stopped if enough damage is done. SoTa PoP wrote: And the only thing that can strip the shields MOSTLY off the Saga II is a full damage modded rail gun proto, Normal rails don't even get past 5% dmg on shields, seriously. Blasters can't possibly kill the saga, it's literally not possible with the built in harden on. They'd over-heat, and they'd have to keep aim on us. Huh? It definitely doesn't take anywhere near that much to strip the shields of a Saga. A single Militia Large Railgun with a single damage mod would with next to no effort. Your Blaster and Rail comparison are only relevant in situations where you've pre-emptively turned on your Hardener which is a luxury you don't often have especially since you can't fit a scanner with both of your high slots being dedicated to Tank, the chance that you'll be surprised as a result is much higher.A Large Blaster can break Shield Regen in situations where they attack before your hardener is up as well. SoTa PoP wrote: Methana only really has speed going for it, it's survivability is more dependent on avoiding danger to begin with then just shrugging off hits and keep on going. It's ... pretty much the exact opposite. SoTa PoP wrote: But I must ask someone to throw on armor hardeners on a methane with a plate to test if it can be one shooted - I didn't have enough Sp to try and don't know anyone else who specced into it. My math says it would be, though. Shield gaining another damage resist bonus to rails. Can you share your math? The only time a Methana should be 1 hit is if its running over a proxy mine nest / is hit with 3 Remote Explosives and maybe if its hit with a Particle Cannon with 2+ damage mods. Beyond that the Rail Turrets in this game do more damage to Shields than Armor. It's reversed compared to every other Rail weapon in EVE/Dust and an issue thats been brought up often. Seriously, check the efficiency ratings when you're aiming at a target with shields vs. armor. Literally the only thing Saga's have over Methana's is better acceleration and this will continue to be the case until we get LAV Specializations with skill bonuses to incentive the use of one or another, better low slot modules, or a higher shield base on the Saga. Saga v. Methana Balance
jerrmy12 kahoalii Proficiency V. 1319	Posted - 2014.04.29 01:44:00 - [25] - Quote The saga 2 is **** Its just saga with a built in hardener I <3 girl gamers Tears, sweet delicious tears
SoTa PoP Heaven's Lost Property Dirt Nap Squad. 4571	Posted - 2014.04.29 01:47:00 - [26] - Quote We can take this in game if you like to be shown first hand. Seems you need real proof. The shield variant offers more to survivability then armor. Armor WILL be one shotted by a dedicated tanker. Shield - it's not going to happen by any mechanic in this game. Well, besides a tank running you over. And x3 damage mods wouldn't one shot us, yet x2 apparently takes you down. Also, the shield rep does not stop when damage is taken - it continues through. You rep through all damage. That's the truth strength of the Saga-II right now. And when CCP fixes that, you'll be right about what you're saying, but until then, SAGA II FTW! :3 n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++ I watch anime for the plot
Foundation Seldon Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 633	Posted - 2014.04.29 01:56:00 - [27] - Quote SoTa PoP wrote: Also, the shield rep does not stop when damage is taken - it continues through. You rep through all damage. That's the truth strength of the Saga-II right now. And when CCP fixes that, you'll be right about what you're saying, but until then, SAGA II FTW! :3 You're saying the Saga II can't have its shield regen interrupted? It's working on the old Regen model? Saga v. Methana Balance
Glantix Karmic-Snow Isuuaya Tactical Caldari State 4	Posted - 2014.04.29 02:07:00 - [28] - Quote Join the LAV Research chat channel. It is full(ish) of guys dedicated to LAV driving. I myself am an Ex-member of LAV Research. During 1.7 I ran the Saga II and dedicated my time to making it comparable to the Methana, which is kind of the LAV everyone in LAV Research used. Double Hardener was fun, but the fit you mentioned was my go to fit. The thing just dominates with a Particle Accelerator. It is nice seeing more people use these things, and I must admit every now and then I miss my old Char with my LAV stuff, and it is definitely something I will skill back into on of these days. Sincerely, Glantix / Snow
jerrmy12 kahoalii Proficiency V. 1319	Posted - 2014.04.29 02:11:00 - [29] - Quote Foundation Seldon wrote: SoTa PoP wrote: Also, the shield rep does not stop when damage is taken - it continues through. You rep through all damage. That's the truth strength of the Saga-II right now. And when CCP fixes that, you'll be right about what you're saying, but until then, SAGA II FTW! :3 You're saying the Saga II can't have its shield regen interrupted? It's working on the old Regen model? I wish I had 300k sp now... I <3 girl gamers Tears, sweet delicious tears
Tectonic Fusion 1638	Posted - 2014.04.29 02:12:00 - [30] - Quote Ridire Greine wrote: It requires Level 3? Fuq that ** It use to require level 2, and logi LAVs were level 3. Squad status: Locked** Ehem...OBVIOUSER troll is OBVIOUSER Solo



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