DUST Search - 60mm compared to 120mm armor plates speed penalties don't make s...

The-Errorist wrote:

Here's what the stats are currently:

Militia 60mm Armor Plates
HP: 365
Speed penalty: 10%

Basic 60mm Armor Plates
HP: 365
Speed penalty: 4%

Enhanced 60mm Armor Plates
HP: 513
Speed penalty: 6%

Complex 60mm Armor Plates
HP: 684
Speed penalty: 10%

Militia 120mm Armor Plates
HP: 1015
Speed penalty: 10%

Basic 120mm Armor Plates
HP: 1015
Speed penalty: 4%

Enhanced 120mm Armor Plates
HP: 1450
Speed penalty: 6%

Complex 120mm Armor Plates
HP: 1885
Speed penalty: 10%

What doesn't make sense is that thinner plates that offer less protection that are less massive, have just as much of a speed penalty as heavier plates; A complex 60mm plate that gives 684HP has a 6% higher movement penalty than a heavier standard 120mm plate that gives 331 more HP, which doesn't make any sense. What it should be like is this:

[60mm] Militia/Standard/Advanced/Prototype
7/4/5/7%

[120mm] Militia/Standard/Advanced/Prototype
11/8/9/11%

It could instead be
[60mm] Militia/Standard/Advanced/Prototype
6/4/5/6%

[120mm] Militia/Standard/Advanced/Prototype
12/8/10/12%

Pages: 1 [2] 3 :: one page

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 2476	Posted - 2014.09.02 10:13:00 - [31] - Quote That would explain why I have noticed soma and madrugar HAVs are easier to kill than Sica and Gunnlogi. It only takes three-four shots to kill either when the hardener is down but the gunnlogi are more likely to get out of range/sight before I can snap off a killshot. Also is there a bug that makes it so the shield hardeners don't flash? I notice a few gunns that take more ammo then its worth to bust em. But in the same match I will encounter a similar tank and absolutely chop it to chutney. I need to pay closer attention to ID tags
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 726	Posted - 2014.09.02 11:00:00 - [32] - Quote The-Errorist wrote: Here's what the stats are currently: Militia 60mm Armor Plates HP: 365 Speed penalty: 10% Basic 60mm Armor Plates HP: 365 Speed penalty: 4% Enhanced 60mm Armor Plates HP: 513 Speed penalty: 6% Complex 60mm Armor Plates HP: 684 Speed penalty: 10% Militia 120mm Armor Plates HP: 1015 Speed penalty: 10% Basic 120mm Armor Plates HP: 1015 Speed penalty: 4% Enhanced 120mm Armor Plates HP: 1450 Speed penalty: 6% Complex 120mm Armor Plates HP: 1885 Speed penalty: 10% What doesn't make sense is that thinner plates that offer less protection that are less massive, have just as much of a speed penalty as heavier plates; A complex 60mm plate that gives 684HP has a 6% higher movement penalty than a heavier standard 120mm plate that gives 331 more HP, which doesn't make any sense. What it should be like is this: [60mm] Militia/Standard/Advanced/Prototype 7/4/5/7% [120mm] Militia/Standard/Advanced/Prototype 11/8/9/11% It could instead be [60mm] Militia/Standard/Advanced/Prototype 6/4/5/6% [120mm] Militia/Standard/Advanced/Prototype 12/8/10/12% Related thread: Rebalance 60mm armor plate HP, so that it has a consitent HP increase [Request] Raise enhanced shied extender to 44 HP since 60 is half of 120 why not just half the speed penality? [[LogiBro in Training]] Level 1 Forum Pariah
LudiKure ninda Dead Man's Game 122	Posted - 2014.09.02 17:02:00 - [33] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: on the list you go you can drop in Maurder and Enforcer tanks like that Chasing FOTM since crome.. `SCAN ATTEMPT PREVENTED`
The-Errorist SVER True Blood 816	Posted - 2014.09.02 18:03:00 - [34] - Quote Apothecary Za'ki wrote: The-Errorist wrote: ... ...What it should be like is this: [60mm] Militia/Standard/Advanced/Prototype 7/4/5/7% [120mm] Militia/Standard/Advanced/Prototype 11/8/9/11% It could instead be [60mm] Militia/Standard/Advanced/Prototype 6/4/5/6% [120mm] Militia/Standard/Advanced/Prototype 12/8/10/12% ... since 60 is half of 120 why not just half the speed penality? The names don't really mean much and I wouldn't want that because the penalties for the 60mm plates wouldn't go up by a fixed amount like so: [60mm] Standard/Advanced/Prototype 4/5/7% [120mm] Militia/Standard/Advanced/Prototype 8/10/14% Also having the penalty double from 2% from the 435HP increase from STD to ADV and have that double to 4% from ADV to PRO for the same 435HP, doesn't doesn't seam right. MAG + Dust cb vet, an alt of Velvet Overkill & Agent Overkill. http://vimeo.com/93181621
The-Errorist SVER True Blood 822	Posted - 2014.10.03 21:43:00 - [35] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: on the list you go For Hotfix Echo? MAG + Dust cb vet, an alt of Velvet Overkill & Agent Overkill. http://vimeo.com/93181621
TH1EFOFSOuLS Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 43	Posted - 2014.10.04 04:03:00 - [36] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: on the list you go What... hes actually helping tanks in some way..... can I get a repsec! REPSPEC! The apocalypse is among us tanks are ganna be op!
Harpyja Legio DXIV 2197	Posted - 2014.10.04 14:09:00 - [37] - Quote TH1EFOFSOuLS wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: on the list you go What... hes actually helping tanks in some way..... can I get a repsec! REPSPEC! The apocalypse is among us tanks are ganna be op! If you check the time of that post, you'll see that he obviousely cares very little about HAVs "By His light, and His will"- The Scriptures, 12:32
Teeee Bone C0M8AT V3T3RANS 123	Posted - 2014.10.04 16:44:00 - [38] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: on the list you go I like having you in charge.. You listen. How about an update to your aurum suit.. FULL PROTO!!! I love the smell of orbital support in the morning!!!
Major IMPACT Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 24	Posted - 2014.10.24 01:28:00 - [39] - Quote This going be in the list for 1.9, or hotfix Echo? EWAR makes you stronger Stand a little taller Doesn't mean I'm lonely when I'm alone......
KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 1401	Posted - 2014.10.24 12:51:00 - [40] - Quote The-Errorist wrote: What doesn't make sense is that thinner plates that offer less protection that are less massive, have just as much of a speed penalty as heavier plates; A complex 60mm plate that gives 684HP has a 6% higher movement penalty than a heavier standard 120mm plate that gives 331 more HP, which doesn't make any sense. What it should be like is this: [60mm] Militia/Standard/Advanced/Prototype 7/4/5/7% [120mm] Militia/Standard/Advanced/Prototype 11/8/9/11% It could instead be [60mm] Militia/Standard/Advanced/Prototype 6/4/5/6% [120mm] Militia/Standard/Advanced/Prototype 12/8/10/12% The suggested fix has one problem: Light vehicles and heavy vehicles (+theoretical mediums). The available (within PG/CPU) plates for light vehicles are the ones that have small speed penalty. Therefore, light vehicles would not have to sacrifice that much speed to get their level's maximum plate HP. Possible additional fixes to handle that: a) Smaller plates limited to light vehicles and bigger to heavies. Not a beautiful fix. b) Implementing thrust mechanic in the physics engine which would mean that LAVs have less torque to deal with plate mass while HAVs would have more. Dunno if UR3 engine already supports it. c) some brilliant PG/CPU, HP gain, speed penalty -value setting. Not sure if doable. So no one of those is a pretty fix. People would enjoy Dust a lot more if they accepted the fact that EVERYTHING is subject to change

manboar thunder fist Dead Man's Game RUST415 175	Posted - 2014.10.24 13:55:00 - [41] - Quote could dropship manouverability buff be added to the list? without an afterburner the dropship seems to have the same stunlock feeling that HMG used to cause on people. NERF SCOUTS, NERF TANKS, NERF AV, NERF ASSAULTS, NERF LOGIS, NERF HEAVIES nerf life Delta- bye bye ads, bye bye scr
The-Errorist SVER True Blood 830	Posted - 2014.10.24 18:19:00 - [42] - Quote Major IMPACT wrote: This going be in the list for 1.9, or hotfix Echo? Based on the the time he said that it was "on the list", 2014.06.12, I won't be surprised if this will be addressed post 1.9. KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: The-Errorist wrote: What doesn't make sense is that thinner plates that offer less protection that are less massive, have just as much of a speed penalty as heavier plates; A complex 60mm plate that gives 684HP has a 6% higher movement penalty than a heavier standard 120mm plate that gives 331 more HP, which doesn't make any sense. What it should be like is this: [60mm] Militia/Standard/Advanced/Prototype 7/4/5/7% [120mm] Militia/Standard/Advanced/Prototype 11/8/9/11% It could instead be [60mm] Militia/Standard/Advanced/Prototype 6/4/5/6% [120mm] Militia/Standard/Advanced/Prototype 12/8/10/12% The suggested fix has one problem: Light vehicles and heavy vehicles (+theoretical mediums). The available (within PG/CPU) plates for light vehicles are the ones that have small speed penalty. Therefore, light vehicles would not have to sacrifice that much speed to get their level's maximum plate HP. ... Light vehicles not having to sacrifice that much speed to get their level's maximum plate HP doesn't sound like a problem, instead it sounds like what it logically should be, since 60mm plates give less HP compared to 120mm plates and their HP progression is also less than 120mm plates. If you disagree, then logically you'd also want complex light shield extenders to have the same penalty as complex heavy shield extenders. MAG + Dust cb vet, an alt of Velvet Overkill & Agent Overkill. http://vimeo.com/93181621
KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 1405	Posted - 2014.10.25 01:06:00 - [43] - Quote The-Errorist wrote: KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: The suggested fix has one problem: Light vehicles and heavy vehicles (+theoretical mediums). The available (within PG/CPU) plates for light vehicles are the ones that have small speed penalty. Therefore, light vehicles would not have to sacrifice that much speed to get their level's maximum plate HP. ... Light vehicles not having to sacrifice that much speed to get their level's maximum plate HP doesn't sound like a problem, instead it sounds like what it logically should be, since 60mm plates give less HP compared to 120mm plates and their HP progression is also less than 120mm plates. If you disagree, then logically you'd also want complex light shield extenders to have the same penalty as complex heavy shield extenders. Dang, there's gonna be a post here.... People would enjoy Dust a lot more if they accepted the fact that EVERYTHING is subject to change
The-Errorist SVER True Blood 839	Posted - 2014.11.06 19:34:00 - [44] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: on the list you go Still wondering if this is still on the list and if this ever gonna be addressed. MAG + Dust cb vet, an alt of Velvet Overkill & Agent Overkill. http://vimeo.com/93181621
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 14248	Posted - 2014.11.06 20:05:00 - [45] - Quote Bearing in mind those speed penalties can always be reduced by up to 50% can't they? Do they feel like they are enough? GÇ£How does this all work then?GÇ¥ GÇ£Like so Choirboy.GÇ¥ Mila to Kador, Sub Zero Club, Shoashu Sasaanko
The-Errorist SVER True Blood 847	Posted - 2014.11.06 20:10:00 - [46] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Bearing in mind those speed penalties can always be reduced by up to 50% can't they? Do they feel like they are enough? I'm not sure but that can be looked at later and is a slightly different topic. MAG + Dust cb vet, an alt of Velvet Overkill & Agent Overkill. http://vimeo.com/93181621
Vulpes Dolosus Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2487	Posted - 2014.11.06 20:37:00 - [47] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Bearing in mind those speed penalties can always be reduced by up to 50% can't they? Do they feel like they are enough? That skill needs to go. There's no point for it, it takes one of the main things that limits armor vehicles and pretty much makes it moot. Either that or add a shield resistance skill. Dust is there! I was real! Dear diary, Rattati senpai noticed me today~
The-Errorist SVER True Blood 853	Posted - 2014.11.06 22:44:00 - [48] - Quote Vulpes Dolosus wrote: True Adamance wrote: Bearing in mind those speed penalties can always be reduced by up to 50% can't they? Do they feel like they are enough? That skill needs to go. There's no point for it, it takes one of the main things that limits armor vehicles and pretty much makes it moot. Either that or add a shield resistance skill. I think True Adamance was asking if the current speed penalties are high enough, not talking about a skills. MAG + Dust cb vet, an alt of Velvet Overkill & Agent Overkill. http://vimeo.com/93181621
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 14252	Posted - 2014.11.06 22:49:00 - [49] - Quote The-Errorist wrote: Vulpes Dolosus wrote: True Adamance wrote: Bearing in mind those speed penalties can always be reduced by up to 50% can't they? Do they feel like they are enough? That skill needs to go. There's no point for it, it takes one of the main things that limits armor vehicles and pretty much makes it moot. Either that or add a shield resistance skill. I think True Adamance was asking if the current speed penalties are high enough, not talking about a skills. Indeed as you suggested prototype plates might have up to a 12% Mass Penalty (term for it from EVE) however using the skill to reduce it (Armour Honey Combing in EVE) it reduces that mass penalty to 6%. Just wondering if this had been considered in relation to the proposal and if you might make modifications based on it. @ Vulpes - Armour Vehicles suffer enough under the current vehicle iterations the skill key to ensuring that even if Armour vehicles wanted to use plating they would not have their mobility options crippled by it. "HeGÇÖs sorry. ThatGÇÖs his sorry faceGÇª. Just keep quiet for now and maybe you'll get through this." -Kador Ouryon
manboar thunder fist Dead Man's Game RUST415 215	Posted - 2014.11.06 23:24:00 - [50] - Quote Unfortunately due to the ridiculous nature of swarms now incubus is forced to stack armour just to survive NERF SCOUTS, NERF TANKS, NERF AV, NERF ASSAULTS, NERF LOGIS, NERF HEAVIES nerf life Delta- bye bye ads, bye bye scr

CLONE ALPHA 001 T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K 49	Posted - 2014.11.07 01:43:00 - [51] - Quote proto plates should be lighter then advanced and standard but the armor increase should not be as much also all tanks need an ehp buff av is far too overpowered thats why i respeced out of tanks
The-Errorist SVER True Blood 856	Posted - 2014.11.07 19:05:00 - [52] - Quote manboar thunder fist wrote: Unfortunately due to the ridiculous nature of swarms now incubus is forced to stack armour just to survive That's a bit off topic, this thread is about the speed penalty different between 60 & 120mm armor plates. CLONE ALPHA 001 wrote: proto plates should be lighter then advanced and standard but the armor increase should not be as much also all tanks need an ehp buff av is far too overpowered thats why i respeced out of tanks Again, going a bit off topic and can you reasons as to why you think proto plates should be lighter? Shouldn't more HP give you more of speed penalty? MAG + Dust cb vet, an alt of Velvet Overkill & Agent Overkill. http://vimeo.com/93181621
DUST Fiend Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 14938	Posted - 2014.11.07 19:34:00 - [53] - Quote Please, by all means, keep nerfing the Incubus o7 And no, its not off topic, because Heavy Plate light rep is basically the only Incubus buikd that even comes close to being halfway reasonable. Im sick of every god damn thing dealing insane damage to armor when we have the least ability to mitigate it, and the least mobility. Ten Year Plan (pâÄa¦át¢èa¦á)pâÄs+íGö+GöüGö+ Bitter Vet extraordinaire
The-Errorist SVER True Blood 856	Posted - 2014.11.07 21:05:00 - [54] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Please, by all means, keep nerfing the Incubus o7 And no, its not off topic, because Heavy Plate light rep is basically the only Incubus buikd that even comes close to being halfway reasonable. Im sick of every god damn thing dealing insane damage to armor when we have the least ability to mitigate it, and the least mobility. At leasr your numbers aren't high So what you're saying is, talking about whether all tanks need an HP buff, viable armor fits on a certain vehicle, and nerfs relating to that vehicle are directly related to the difference between speed penalties of 2 types of armor plates, because only a certain fit is viable. I don't think I follow that logic. MAG + Dust cb vet, an alt of Velvet Overkill & Agent Overkill. http://vimeo.com/93181621
KalOfTheRathi Nec Tributis 1412	Posted - 2014.11.07 21:09:00 - [55] - Quote The-Errorist wrote: Does anyone see a problem with this or think it's fine? It has never made any sense. But this is Dust, so why would it? The idea that any of this technology is logical is silly. It isn't. None of it in EVE Online makes any sense either. Its Icelandic Science Fiction so whatever they stick in it is what goes in. To my way of thinking the issue with Complex anything is punishment. It is supposed to be a nearly negative cost solution. Very expensive, short term gains, high resource cost, difficult to fit and the list is probably longer than that. But, it needs to be difficult and expensive because the alternative is everyone will simply run Complex everything and that means every encounter will be a proto stomp. Or at least an attempted proto stomp. From many viewpoints the recent vehicle balance and the hot fix Buff/Nerf cycles that have followed 1.7 have appeared (to me) that the best fit in many cases is STD gear. Good cost, better than Militia resources and no overly harsh punishments for using them. But Complex plating speed penalties have never made sense. It was an early attempt at balancing. Like many of the earlier attempts they left much to be desired, as in better balancing. I haven't played much since HT Delta so I am most definitely out of date. Once 1.9 settles down I will give it a go and see what is happening. My favorite tank is a Lightning. Just sayin.
The-Errorist SVER True Blood 880	Posted - 2014.11.13 17:49:00 - [56] - Quote Bump MAG + Dust cb vet, an alt of Velvet Overkill & Agent Overkill. http://vimeo.com/93181621
VikingKong iBUN T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K 196	Posted - 2014.11.13 18:09:00 - [57] - Quote Asha Starwind wrote: BioClone Ax-45 wrote: The-Errorist wrote: Does anyone see a problem with this or think it's fine? Volume means nothing, should a 120mm Iron be more effective than a 60mm kevlar? you know the reply. Your example is only valid,whixh it isn't, if the plates are made out of different materials. Thickness being the only difference between the two in classification directly implies that all other characteristics are the same. This XxGhazbaranxX wrote: I agree 60mm plate should be less than the 120mm plate speed reduction. And this.
The-Errorist SVER True Blood 899	Posted - 2014.11.17 19:15:00 - [58] - Quote Bump MAG + Dust cb vet, an alt of Velvet Overkill & Agent Overkill. http://vimeo.com/93181621
The-Errorist 975	Posted - 2015.01.27 19:02:00 - [59] - Quote It seems as if this issue got buried and forgotten MAG + Dust cb vet, an alt of Velvet Overkill & Agent Overkill AKA Enkouyami (Main PSN).
Velvet Overkill SI6MA Learning Alliance 130	Posted - 2015.03.11 23:32:00 - [60] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: on the list you go Still waiting



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