DUST Search - Scouts + Cloaks and all the other bounses = Assualts buffed %300

Kristoff Atruin wrote:

Before 1.8 scouts didn't really have a role because everyone was always on passive radar, then when active scanners came around we had scannerinas meaning everyone was always on the radar. It wasn't medium frames taking over the scout role, it was that a scout role didn't exist. Now with a combination of a cloak bug (being able to fire while invisible), an extra equipment slot that is only needed because a cloaked scout should still be able to have a piece of equipment, the ability to tank more than a medium suit, and being the only suit that is capable of detecting or evading scout suits do everything a medium suit can do and do it both better and in a more cost effective way.

When the buffs given to something are overdone and take over the roles of two classes of suits it's far easier to adjust the changes you just made than to redesign everything else. If they buff the flaylock and overdo it, should they nerf the flaylock or buff every suit and weapon in the game? The effect is the same, balance. One method requires less work and thinking, the other more.


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Varoth Drac The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 77	Posted - 2014.04.23 15:57:00 - [1] - Quote So much rubbish. Firstly there are not that many scouts. There are loads of heavies and similar numbers of scouts, assaults and logis. Secondly, assault suits have much more hp than scouts, even brick tanked Gallente scouts. Cloaks don't help much if you fit lots of armor and play like an assault, neither does avoiding scans. If you are using an assault suit, stick with your team-mates and you will be much more successful. Scouts aren't much faster than assaults. The only changes that possibly need to be made are: -Re-balance assault suit module slots (as CCP have stated they intend to do) by adding one slot to std and adv assault suits, but not proto. -Nerf armor plates slightly -Remove Gallente scout scan range bonus to balance the suit with the other scouts.
Varoth Drac The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 77	Posted - 2014.04.23 16:36:00 - [2] - Quote Zahle Undt wrote: Varoth Drac wrote: -Remove Gallente scout scan range bonus to balance the suit with the other scouts. Which bonus are Cal and Min scouts going to lose as well? They both have 2 This is a little off topic but I was referring to balancing Gallente with minmatar and caldari scouts. Gallente scouts are by far the most common, implying they are better than the others. Also, pretty much all complaints about scouts are referring to Gal scouts. I reckon Gal scout's dampening bonus, combined with the innate armour rep is on a par with the Cal scout's scanning bonuses and improved shield recharge. Gal scouts don't need an extra scan range bonus as well. Leave scanning bonuses to Cal scouts. As for minmatar scouts, the knife bonus doesn't really count. Knives are fun but they are not really competitive. Having a bonus to only one weapon is very limited. Also, the bonus, whilst significant, is rarely useful even if you are using knives. Also, min scouts suffer from low pg making fitting much more difficult than for Gal scouts.
Varoth Drac The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 78	Posted - 2014.04.23 17:24:00 - [3] - Quote Jotun Izalaru wrote: argh, what -scouts are extremely common, especially among high SP players -It doesn't matter how much HP assaults have, scouts shouldn't be brick tanking because it comes with extremely minimum movement penalties and it furthers cloak abuse which... -...is a big deal because cloaks are literally broken. they allow a full shotgun or knife attack while still invisible and allow scouts to be e-war invisible without even attempting profile dampening. this comes with no penalties or disadvantages. -scouts should be faster than assaults so this is part of the problem too. scouts have needed a buffed base speed (or mediums a reduced one) since Uprising dropped. so for your solutions. - there is nothing wrong with the tiers of gear. it's all fundamentally wrong to begin with - you are finally correct, armor plates need their old movement penalty back or less HP -nah, that's dumb and completely ineffectual anyway. - Scouts shouldn't be brick tanking - why not? The whole point of dust is freedom to fit how you like. Yes it's boring and personally I prefer to fit kincats and range amps instead of armour as it fits the flanking/behind enemy lines style I enjoy, but that doesn't mean that people shouldn't be able to be a light assault if they want to. After all, you can fit an assault suit with biotics and dampeners and play the same role. - brick tanking furthers cloak abuse - errm what? Brick tanking limits the effectiveness of a cloak. Cloaks can't be used for frontal assaults as they are easily spotted at close range unless stationary. Cloaks are useful for flanking. Armour limits flanking ability as it slows you down and takes up slots that could be used for biotics or ewar, which are both useful for flanking. - cloaks are broken - ok so maybe by abuse you meant people using cloaks for surprise frontal attacks not flanks. Is this really a big problem? My logi or assault suits very rarely get killed by people decloaking I front of me. Maybe the decloak to shoot time does need increasing, many people claim the current situation is a bug so maybe when that's solved things will be better. - Swap scout's dampening for more speed. - I really don't see how this will solve anything. Currently most scouts use kin-cats. If what you propose goes ahead they will just be swapped for dampeners. The end result is the same. As for brick scouts, would you really rather have super fast high hp scouts that you can scan or slow scouts that you can't scan (but are too slow to sneak up on you)? They will both probably be shooting you at range with a combat rifle anyway, standing still and completely visible, so I don't see any difference. - tiers - so you are completely fine with std and adv scouts having the same module counts are assaults? - plates - 3,4,5 % speed reduction rather than 2,3,5 would probably do it. Maybe 3,4,6. - gal scout scan bonus. - Nobody gives this any thought because they can't see beyond the superficial problems. I am agreeing the Galente scouts are a little too strong. They get a scan range bonus over min and Amarr scouts. Scan range is a low slot module. As I said I use range amps on my min scout, gal scouts don't have to. Scouts kill by seeing opponents on radar without being seen themselves, allowing action behind enemy lines and effective flanking. Free scan range means Gal scouts can fit more armor, the exact problem you are talking about. Yes they could live with lower scan range and still brick up but they would be less effective, i.e. nerfed. Nobody understands how important scan range is.
Varoth Drac The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 79	Posted - 2014.04.23 19:01:00 - [4] - Quote Kristoff Atruin wrote: Before 1.8 scouts didn't really have a role because everyone was always on passive radar, then when active scanners came around we had scannerinas meaning everyone was always on the radar. It wasn't medium frames taking over the scout role, it was that a scout role didn't exist. Now with a combination of a cloak bug (being able to fire while invisible), an extra equipment slot that is only needed because a cloaked scout should still be able to have a piece of equipment, the ability to tank more than a medium suit, and being the only suit that is capable of detecting or evading scout suits do everything a medium suit can do and do it both better and in a more cost effective way. When the buffs given to something are overdone and take over the roles of two classes of suits it's far easier to adjust the changes you just made than to redesign everything else. If they buff the flaylock and overdo it, should they nerf the flaylock or buff every suit and weapon in the game? The effect is the same, balance. One method requires less work and thinking, the other more. Can I just correct a couple of things that many people seem to be misinformed about. In 1.7 all scouts apart from low sp characters avoided all scans except proto. Scouts can't tank more than medium frames. Weapons are more effective on assault suits.