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Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries Dirt Nap Squad. 8797	Posted - 2014.04.22 10:17:00 - [1] - Quote The PLC will have been broken for a full year, without any buff in sight. Overlord of all humans CAT MERC
LT SHANKS Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 1894	Posted - 2014.04.22 10:22:00 - [2] - Quote The PLC is such a bad weapon, but it's pretty damned fun to use. It could use a decrease to projectile flight time as well as reloading time. Also, an increase to splash radius and damage wouldn't hurt..
VALCORE72 NECROM0NGERS Caps and Mercs 152	Posted - 2014.04.22 10:26:00 - [3] - Quote needs to be more RPG vs shields not this arcing nad tosser . who ever who was thinkn the arc of it was cool needs there balls ripped off with a rusty hanger
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries Dirt Nap Squad. 8799	Posted - 2014.04.22 10:27:00 - [4] - Quote VALCORE72 wrote: needs to be more RPG vs shields not this arcing nad tosser . who ever who was thinkn the arc of it was cool needs there balls ripped off with a rusty hanger Also needs a damage increase... It's a close range AV weapon that has a single shot and then needs to reload, and yet it does less damage per shot than the Swarm or Forge. Overlord of all humans CAT MERC
Bazookah Tooth NECROM0NGERS Caps and Mercs 446	Posted - 2014.04.22 10:50:00 - [5] - Quote Side note: it will also be my birthday on that day. \o/ woo! "I believe it's a sin not to rule the world if you've been blessed with the strength!" Justice HMG for life
ChromeBreaker SVER True Blood General Tso's Alliance 1702	Posted - 2014.04.22 10:55:00 - [6] - Quote As a minmitar sentinal the splash is non existant, and i can take a direct hit turn around and insert my hmg to return the favour lol The answer is "ForgeGun"... doesnt matter what the question is...
Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution Dirt Nap Squad. 3557	Posted - 2014.04.22 11:02:00 - [7] - Quote The only thing the plasma cannon needs is a snaring effect for anything hit by it, or its splash. It cannot ever be as powerful as a forge gun, because that would make commandos too good. It will not as good at killing a vehicle as a swarm, because it also has anti-infantry uses and that would make it too good for a light weapon. It needs a horizontal application in its usage, and that is a snare. Give it a snare. It's slow, and if you get hit by it, you are slow. Ironic, delicious practicality.
ResistanceGTA D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 762	Posted - 2014.04.22 11:04:00 - [8] - Quote Just wait, isn't their an Assault or Breach variant in the SDE? Soon it shall be god, and all of you who can destroy using the base variant shall be demi-gods when its new cousins arrive on the scene. xSivartx is my Heavy. There are many like him, but he is my own... So, other Logi's back off, those are my Warpoints!
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries Dirt Nap Squad. 8802	Posted - 2014.04.22 11:05:00 - [9] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: The only thing the plasma cannon needs is a snaring effect for anything hit by it, or its splash. It cannot ever be as powerful as a forge gun, because that would make commandos too good. It will not as good at killing a vehicle as a swarm, because it also has anti-infantry uses and that would make it too good for a light weapon. It needs a horizontal application in its usage, and that is a snare. Give it a snare. It's slow, and if you get hit by it, you are slow. Ironic, delicious practicality. The Plasma cannon is the most difficult AV weapon to use, and yes it is AV, confirmed by CCP themselves. Difficulty to use + Limited range + Low Damage = PoS It HAS to do more damage than the forge, or else you're using CCP logic. Overlord of all humans CAT MERC
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries Dirt Nap Squad. 8802	Posted - 2014.04.22 11:06:00 - [10] - Quote ResistanceGTA wrote: Just wait, isn't their an Assault or Breach variant in the SDE? Soon it shall be god, and all of you who can destroy using the base variant shall be demi-gods when its new cousins arrive on the scene. I read the stats, the Assault variant seems to be good against infantry, but the Breach is lackluster. Besides, the SDE is not a good source of information about items that we don't have in the game yet. There's a crusader suit there sitting since the closed beta. There's also a miasma grenade, and tons more like that. Overlord of all humans CAT MERC

rpastry The Rainbow Effect 165	Posted - 2014.04.22 11:10:00 - [11] - Quote PLC must be somewhere near 10005th on the 'needs fixed' priority list. [Removed ASCII Art - CCP Logibro]
Kaughst Nyain San Dirt Nap Squad. 410	Posted - 2014.04.22 11:10:00 - [12] - Quote All it really needs are new variants, Breach for that damage on Tanks and Assault to annoy people with. "He said he has a alt in STB." "Everyone has a alt in STB."
Tolen Rosas Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 368	Posted - 2014.04.22 11:19:00 - [13] - Quote 1. lose the silly firing arc and travel time aka give it the same standards of every other projectile weapon. adding all manner of special characteristics has simply made it ineffective. raise the damage considerably but dont add splash as that will turn it into a noob tube, as a matter of fact lower it if the direct damage goes up. 2. allow a second firing mode where the shell homes in on targets that have been painted with L1 (grenades should have to be equipped) 0. let mercs paint targets as its long overdue. teamwork FTW.
Soldner VonKuechle SAM-MIK General Tso's Alliance 562	Posted - 2014.04.22 11:34:00 - [14] - Quote Pfft. It's a "skill" weapon that's "working as intended". Deciphering the truth from a web of lies is far easier than you'd think. Especially if you're a bureaucrat.
Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution Dirt Nap Squad. 3558	Posted - 2014.04.22 11:43:00 - [15] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Himiko Kuronaga wrote: The only thing the plasma cannon needs is a snaring effect for anything hit by it, or its splash. It cannot ever be as powerful as a forge gun, because that would make commandos too good. It will not as good at killing a vehicle as a swarm, because it also has anti-infantry uses and that would make it too good for a light weapon. It needs a horizontal application in its usage, and that is a snare. Give it a snare. It's slow, and if you get hit by it, you are slow. Ironic, delicious practicality. The Plasma cannon is the most difficult AV weapon to use, and yes it is AV, confirmed by CCP themselves. Difficulty to use + Limited range + Low Damage = PoS It HAS to do more damage than the forge, or else you're using CCP logic. I just explained why it doesn't. A forge is not, and never will be, as devastating at killing a tank as someone who is able to land a plasma shot to prevent them from getting away, then switching to a swarm and finishing them off. Simply saying "this needs more damage or its not as good" is brain dead game design, brought about by a person with no imagination or perception of how things interact. So basically, YOU are the one using CCP logic. Furthermore, A forge gunner has to sacrifice a player slot in the game to do one, singular job. He has to be exemplary in his application of this job. If another form of AV does it better, AND can carry two weapons, the forge gunner should not be fielded ever, any under circumstance.
KalOfTheRathi Nec Tributis 1233	Posted - 2014.04.22 11:46:00 - [16] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: The PLC will have been broken for a full year, without any buff in sight. The Pretty Light Cannon? If you mean the Plasma Cannon what does the L mean. Lob or Loser. And so it goes.
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries Dirt Nap Squad. 8803	Posted - 2014.04.22 11:47:00 - [17] - Quote KalOfTheRathi wrote: Cat Merc wrote: The PLC will have been broken for a full year, without any buff in sight. The Pretty Light Cannon? If you mean the Plasma Cannon what does the L mean. Lob or Loser. Well, PC is already taken, so PLC. Overlord of all humans CAT MERC
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries Dirt Nap Squad. 8803	Posted - 2014.04.22 11:49:00 - [18] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Himiko Kuronaga wrote: The only thing the plasma cannon needs is a snaring effect for anything hit by it, or its splash. It cannot ever be as powerful as a forge gun, because that would make commandos too good. It will not as good at killing a vehicle as a swarm, because it also has anti-infantry uses and that would make it too good for a light weapon. It needs a horizontal application in its usage, and that is a snare. Give it a snare. It's slow, and if you get hit by it, you are slow. Ironic, delicious practicality. The Plasma cannon is the most difficult AV weapon to use, and yes it is AV, confirmed by CCP themselves. Difficulty to use + Limited range + Low Damage = PoS It HAS to do more damage than the forge, or else you're using CCP logic. I just explained why it doesn't. A forge is not, and never will be, as devastating at killing a tank as someone who is able to land a plasma shot to prevent them from getting away, then switching to a swarm and finishing them off. Simply saying "this needs more damage or its not as good" is brain dead game design, brought about by a person with no imagination or perception of how things interact. So basically, YOU are the one using CCP logic. Furthermore, A forge gunner has to sacrifice a player slot in the game to do one, singular job. He has to be exemplary in his application of this job. If another form of AV does it better, AND can carry two weapons, the forge gunner should not be fielded ever, any under circumstance. And I explained why your reasoning is flawed: Difficulty to use + Limited range + Low Damage = PoS Edge cases be damned, the PLC needs to work on it's own, and it needs to devestate vehicles when it hits them, because actually hitting anything with the bloody thing is damn near impossible if the pilot knows what he's doing. Overlord of all humans CAT MERC
Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution Dirt Nap Squad. 3560	Posted - 2014.04.22 11:52:00 - [19] - Quote If I have long range on a target a tank can get away from my forge. If I'm in close range, its even easier for him. If a plasma cannon is able to snare them, suddenly they can no longer guarantee escape and that makes the situation a lot more deadly for the tank to stumble into. Explain to me how that makes it a PoS? Guaranteed escape from one situation, inability to escape from another? You have not thought this out.
Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution Dirt Nap Squad. 3560	Posted - 2014.04.22 11:55:00 - [20] - Quote In fact if it just got a damage buff, a person would take one hit from it, activate hardeners and GTFO. Your version of the plasma cannon would be worse than my version, versus pretty much anything.

Rynoceros Rise Of Old Dudes 3771	Posted - 2014.04.22 11:56:00 - [21] - Quote It's also a year since new maps, sockets, modes, and a handful of other stuff. It'll be a "laser focused" year with only 1 of the FanFest 2013 goals somewhat accomplished (dropsuit parity, but no Pilots). Still waiting for PvE, P2P, Speeders, vehicle parity, Caldari Production Facility, Minmatar Cargo Hub, more moods (if you count that stupid ass Volcanic background as a legit mood, go ** yourself.) and so much more. Good job, ***** amateurs. I GÖú Kittens.
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries Dirt Nap Squad. 8804	Posted - 2014.04.22 12:01:00 - [22] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: In fact if it just got a damage buff, a person would take one hit from it, activate hardeners and GTFO. Your version of the plasma cannon would be worse than my version, versus pretty much anything. I'm sorry but 1150 at proto is **** for damage, like absolute crap. Overlord of all humans CAT MERC
Moochie Cricket Fatal Absolution Dirt Nap Squad. 704	Posted - 2014.04.22 12:01:00 - [23] - Quote It needs to have the option for different firing modes. Maybe one type of ammo could be colorful confetti and another could be something like a big firework, with aurum variants that could be different colors or different shaped explosions. The battlefield could be so festive and pretty. "Military training is preferable, but anyone who can fly a plane would be useful." "I can fly. I'm pilot."
xxwhitedevilxx M Maphia Clan Unit Unicorn 2293	Posted - 2014.04.22 12:01:00 - [24] - Quote Imo, the real point with PLC is the oh-so-slow water balloon. Just a bit faster and it would be a good weapon to use. -#Firmocosìperchènonhopersonalità
xxwhitedevilxx M Maphia Clan Unit Unicorn 2293	Posted - 2014.04.22 12:03:00 - [25] - Quote Moochie Cricket wrote: It needs to have the option for different firing modes. Maybe one type of ammo could be colorful confetti and another could be something like a big firework, with aurum variants that could be different colors or different shaped explosions. The battlefield could be so festive and pretty. OT The pinky laser. That would be awesome. -#Firmocosìperchènonhopersonalità
Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution Dirt Nap Squad. 3560	Posted - 2014.04.22 12:05:00 - [26] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Himiko Kuronaga wrote: In fact if it just got a damage buff, a person would take one hit from it, activate hardeners and GTFO. Your version of the plasma cannon would be worse than my version, versus pretty much anything. I'm sorry but 1150 at proto is **** for damage, like absolute crap. And why does it have to be the king of damage instead of giving a unique controlling effect that actually puts the vehicle in a different kind of danger? If you double the damage, you end up with double-plasma-cannon-wielding commandos just running around dropping tanks without trying. If you buff it by 50%, it's still worthless compared to a forge gun's versatility and range. The only option to make it worth using and not OP is to give it a snare for vehicles, or scrap the AV idea entirely and give it a large DoT splash versus infantry.
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries Dirt Nap Squad. 8808	Posted - 2014.04.22 12:09:00 - [27] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Himiko Kuronaga wrote: In fact if it just got a damage buff, a person would take one hit from it, activate hardeners and GTFO. Your version of the plasma cannon would be worse than my version, versus pretty much anything. I'm sorry but 1150 at proto is **** for damage, like absolute crap. And why does it have to be the king of damage instead of giving a unique controlling effect that actually puts the vehicle in a different kind of danger? If you double the damage, you end up with double-plasma-cannon-wielding commandos just running around dropping tanks without trying. If you buff it by 50%, it's still worthless compared to a forge gun's versatility and range. The only option to make it worth using and not OP is to give it a snare for vehicles, or scrap the AV idea entirely and give it a large DoT splash versus infantry. Well, let's see. Slow projectile - Check Arc - Check Long delay after firing before you can reload or switch weapons - Check If a Commando runs with this setup then good job, he is dedicated to AV and still needs skill to make it work. Overlord of all humans CAT MERC
Tebu Gan Dem Durrty Boyz Dirt Nap Squad. 816	Posted - 2014.04.22 12:16:00 - [28] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: The PLC will have been broken for a full year, without any buff in sight. Psh Tanks - Balancing Turrets
Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution Dirt Nap Squad. 3560	Posted - 2014.04.22 12:17:00 - [29] - Quote And if you have a snare on the tank, none of that matters does it? He isn't going anywhere anytime soon. Right now if you put two guys with swarms on a tank, the tank will probably get away. If you replaced one of those swarms with a PLC that had a snare, then the AV tag team would win. If you give the PLC big damage instead, the tank would probably get away again unless the buff was so ridiculously outrageous that no one need ever run any other form of AV ever again. The plasma cannon, im sorry to tell you, isn't that difficult to hit a vehicle. So drop that argument. It's hard to KILL a vehicle with. But then, its the same way for swarms and forges right now. It's difficult for any solo AV to do this job right. What I'm telling you is that if you give it a snare, it buffs AV dups or incredibly good commandos to the point it is much easier to take down HAV's. If you can put a snaring plasma cannon in the city, why in their right mind is going to want to rush into the city with a tank? That's a risky proposition. He's close, you're a big target, he has cover, you can't get away, the entire enemy team is surrounding you... nasty stuff. Now it sounds like you just want a solo AV weapon that can wreck everything, to which I say no. That is not the way vehicles versus infantry has been balanced and it shouldn't be balanced that way.
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 12588	Posted - 2014.04.22 12:18:00 - [30] - Quote A snare on the PLC would actually be very healthy for it in terms of AV viability. You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake. EUrobro

Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries Dirt Nap Squad. 8809	Posted - 2014.04.22 12:25:00 - [31] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: And if you have a snare on the tank, none of that matters does it? He isn't going anywhere anytime soon. Right now if you put two guys with swarms on a tank, the tank will probably get away. If you replaced one of those swarms with a PLC that had a snare, then the AV tag team would win. If you give the PLC big damage instead, the tank would probably get away again unless the buff was so ridiculously outrageous that no one need ever run any other form of AV ever again. The plasma cannon, im sorry to tell you, isn't that difficult to hit a vehicle. So drop that argument. It's hard to KILL a vehicle with. But then, its the same way for swarms and forges right now. It's difficult for any solo AV to do this job right. What I'm telling you is that if you give it a snare, it buffs AV duos or incredibly good commandos to the point it is much easier to take down HAV's. If you can put a snaring plasma cannon in the city, why in their right mind is going to want to rush into the city with a tank? That's a risky proposition. He's close, you're a big target, he has cover, you can't get away, the entire enemy team is surrounding you... nasty stuff. Now it sounds like you just want a solo AV weapon that can wreck everything, to which I say no. That is not the way vehicles versus infantry has been balanced and it shouldn't be balanced that way. To me it sounds like you want webifiers. I don't want my only AV weapon to be a ******* web, I want to behave like a Gallente weapon would - Devastating at close range. And if they will go the route of your suggestion they better double the ammo capacity on that thing because I will be sitting there pounding tanks for 10 minutes before they finally give up and get out to kill me. (Exaggeration but still) Overlord of all humans CAT MERC
Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution Dirt Nap Squad. 3563	Posted - 2014.04.22 12:33:00 - [32] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Himiko Kuronaga wrote: And if you have a snare on the tank, none of that matters does it? He isn't going anywhere anytime soon. Right now if you put two guys with swarms on a tank, the tank will probably get away. If you replaced one of those swarms with a PLC that had a snare, then the AV tag team would win. If you give the PLC big damage instead, the tank would probably get away again unless the buff was so ridiculously outrageous that no one need ever run any other form of AV ever again. The plasma cannon, im sorry to tell you, isn't that difficult to hit a vehicle. So drop that argument. It's hard to KILL a vehicle with. But then, its the same way for swarms and forges right now. It's difficult for any solo AV to do this job right. What I'm telling you is that if you give it a snare, it buffs AV duos or incredibly good commandos to the point it is much easier to take down HAV's. If you can put a snaring plasma cannon in the city, why in their right mind is going to want to rush into the city with a tank? That's a risky proposition. He's close, you're a big target, he has cover, you can't get away, the entire enemy team is surrounding you... nasty stuff. Now it sounds like you just want a solo AV weapon that can wreck everything, to which I say no. That is not the way vehicles versus infantry has been balanced and it shouldn't be balanced that way. To me it sounds like you want webifiers. I don't want my only AV weapon to be a ******* web, I want to behave like a Gallente weapon would - Devastating at close range. And if they will go the route of your suggestion they better double the ammo capacity on that thing because I will be sitting there pounding tanks for 10 minutes before they finally give up and get out to kill me. (Exaggeration but still) Well guess what? You would be doing exactly what every other form of AV is currently doing against tanks when they operate solo. Infantry deter HAV's solo, they do not kill solo. Not against good tanks. And you're not going to do more damage than a heavy weapon. Especially not when you can hold two of the damn things. Get those delusions out of your head good sir. If you were to get any form of damage increase it would be on the plasma MORTAR, the Gallente heavy weapon. Not the Plasma cannon, a light weapon that any tard can run around with.
Spectral Clone Dust2Dust. Top Men. 2387	Posted - 2014.04.22 12:34:00 - [33] - Quote We need to celebrate with cake on the broke-day of plasma cannons. HTFU Gë£ Live with CCP´s mistakes.
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries Dirt Nap Squad. 8809	Posted - 2014.04.22 12:35:00 - [34] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Himiko Kuronaga wrote: And if you have a snare on the tank, none of that matters does it? He isn't going anywhere anytime soon. Right now if you put two guys with swarms on a tank, the tank will probably get away. If you replaced one of those swarms with a PLC that had a snare, then the AV tag team would win. If you give the PLC big damage instead, the tank would probably get away again unless the buff was so ridiculously outrageous that no one need ever run any other form of AV ever again. The plasma cannon, im sorry to tell you, isn't that difficult to hit a vehicle. So drop that argument. It's hard to KILL a vehicle with. But then, its the same way for swarms and forges right now. It's difficult for any solo AV to do this job right. What I'm telling you is that if you give it a snare, it buffs AV duos or incredibly good commandos to the point it is much easier to take down HAV's. If you can put a snaring plasma cannon in the city, why in their right mind is going to want to rush into the city with a tank? That's a risky proposition. He's close, you're a big target, he has cover, you can't get away, the entire enemy team is surrounding you... nasty stuff. Now it sounds like you just want a solo AV weapon that can wreck everything, to which I say no. That is not the way vehicles versus infantry has been balanced and it shouldn't be balanced that way. To me it sounds like you want webifiers. I don't want my only AV weapon to be a ***** web, I want to behave like a Gallente weapon would - Devastating at close range. And if they will go the route of your suggestion they better double the ammo capacity on that thing because I will be sitting there pounding tanks for 10 minutes before they finally give up and get out to kill me. (Exaggeration but still) Well guess what? You would be doing exactly what every other form of AV is currently doing against tanks who operate solo. Infantry deter HAV's solo, they do not kill solo. Not against good tanks. And you're not going to do more damage than a heavy weapon. Especially not when you can hold two of the damn things. Get those delusions out of your head good sir. If you were to get any form of damage increase it would be on the plasma MORTAR, the Gallente heavy weapon. Not the Plasma cannon, a light weapon that any tard can run around with. Here's a reality check for you: Long range weapons ---> Less DPS Close range weapons ---> More DPS PLC range <<<<< Forge range Also, snare effect is like the exact ***** opposite of tank deterance, they can't get away. 2000 damage would be incredibly devastating, but they can get away. Overlord of all humans CAT MERC
Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution Dirt Nap Squad. 3563	Posted - 2014.04.22 12:37:00 - [35] - Quote No. Heavy weapons > light weapons. If they didn't do this, they wouldn't bother making them heavy.
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 12589	Posted - 2014.04.22 12:39:00 - [36] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: No. Heavy weapons > light weapons. If they didn't do this, they wouldn't bother making them heavy. But not Heavy weapons >>>>> light weapons. Which is pretty much what the forge gun is to the plasma cannon, snare effect or not. I like the idea of a snare effect and it's a mechanic that's needed but without more actual damage it'll remain a joke for trying to actually kill a tank. You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake. EUrobro
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries Dirt Nap Squad. 8809	Posted - 2014.04.22 12:41:00 - [37] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: No. Heavy weapons > light weapons. If they didn't do this, they wouldn't bother making them heavy. Heavy weapons are about raw power yes, but not to the point where heavy weapons are flat out better than light weapons. And I'm sorry but a snare effect is not enough to make the lolcannon as good as the forge, it will just be a weapon that they laugh at, an annoyance at most. Overlord of all humans CAT MERC
Ryme Intrinseca Fatal Absolution Dirt Nap Squad. 953	Posted - 2014.04.22 12:43:00 - [38] - Quote Is the PC the only light weapon that has always been useless? I would say burst AR as well, but at one time ARs were so strong that even the ginger headed stepchild of the family could hold its own.
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries Dirt Nap Squad. 8809	Posted - 2014.04.22 12:45:00 - [39] - Quote Ryme Intrinseca wrote: Is the PC the only light weapon that has always been useless? I would say burst AR as well, but at one time ARs were so strong that even the ginger headed stepchild of the family could hold its own. Allotek Rifles didn't have the insanely long burst delay they have now IIRC, making them full auto in the right hands. Overlord of all humans CAT MERC
Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution Dirt Nap Squad. 3563	Posted - 2014.04.22 12:47:00 - [40] - Quote By introducing the snare effect you don't have to directly compare the PLC to the forge, because they serve different functions. A forge kills tankers who screw up. A swarm launcher assists a combined effort, or deters. They are not things to be held on the same level of performance. An HMG will out DPS a shotgun, and outrange it. Both are CQC, one is clearly better. The shotgun is made good by the suit it is attached to, but the HMG being a heavy weapon is good all by itself. Heavy weapons > light weapons in raw power for their intended role. The plasma cannon cannot be better than the forge gun in its intended role. A guy with a plasma cannon can lay down links. Can fight off infantry with his sidearm. A heavy with a forge has only one job, and you would have him outperformed by the PLC. That is game design stupidity. If he was on the bridge map, or three point in a cargo hub, he would dominate on any of the outside points with a PLC and dominate the lower point of a cargo hub entirely unchallenged. Why would you ever field a forge? At the range provided its way too easy to hit tanks there. No. The PLC is too applicable where it matters to give it a major damage buff. It needs an assist role.

Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries Dirt Nap Squad. 8809	Posted - 2014.04.22 12:52:00 - [41] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: By introducing the snare effect you don't have to directly compare the PLC to the forge, because they serve different functions. A forge kills tankers who screw up. A swarm launcher assists a combined effort, or deters. They are not things to be held on the same level of performance. An HMG will out DPS a shotgun, and outrange it. Both are CQC, one is clearly better. The shotgun is made good by the suit it is attached to, but the HMG being a heavy weapon is good all by itself. Heavy weapons > light weapons in raw power for their intended role. The plasma cannon cannot be better than the forge gun in its intended role. A guy with a plasma cannon can lay down links. Can fight off infantry with his sidearm. A heavy with a forge has only one job, and you would have him outperformed by the PLC. That is game design stupidity. If he was on the bridge map, or three point in a cargo hub, he would dominate on any of the outside points with a PLC and dominate the lower point of a cargo hub entirely unchallenged. Why would you ever field a forge? At the range provided its way too easy to hit tanks there. No. The PLC is too applicable where it matters to give it a major damage buff. It needs an assist role. Everyone will run heavies in your vision of the game, with just logistics support. That's literally what the game will become. And don't pull the "speed" bullshit, I can make a heavy run faster than any assault while still having my 1000+ HP and the raw power doom machines. Overlord of all humans CAT MERC
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries Dirt Nap Squad. 8809	Posted - 2014.04.22 12:56:00 - [42] - Quote Forge gun: 300m range Very fast projectile Projectile moves forward directly 1500 damage for assault, 2100 for breach Plasma Cannon: 40m~ effective range (Sniping vehicles beyond that point is a matter of luck, no matter how good your aim, because the projectile is slow) Very slow projectile Arc 1150 damage The overall fire rate of the PLC and Breach is very similar, because while the breach has charge up time, the PLC has to reload after each shot, and there's the long delay after shooting that adds 2~ seconds before you can even start reloading. I'm sorry but that's just bullshit. Overlord of all humans CAT MERC
Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution Dirt Nap Squad. 3563	Posted - 2014.04.22 12:59:00 - [43] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Himiko Kuronaga wrote: By introducing the snare effect you don't have to directly compare the PLC to the forge, because they serve different functions. A forge kills tankers who screw up. A swarm launcher assists a combined effort, or deters. They are not things to be held on the same level of performance. An HMG will out DPS a shotgun, and outrange it. Both are CQC, one is clearly better. The shotgun is made good by the suit it is attached to, but the HMG being a heavy weapon is good all by itself. Heavy weapons > light weapons in raw power for their intended role. The plasma cannon cannot be better than the forge gun in its intended role. A guy with a plasma cannon can lay down links. Can fight off infantry with his sidearm. A heavy with a forge has only one job, and you would have him outperformed by the PLC. That is game design stupidity. If he was on the bridge map, or three point in a cargo hub, he would dominate on any of the outside points with a PLC and dominate the lower point of a cargo hub entirely unchallenged. Why would you ever field a forge? At the range provided its way too easy to hit tanks there. No. The PLC is too applicable where it matters to give it a major damage buff. It needs an assist role. Everyone will run heavies in your vision of the game, with just logistics support. That's literally what the game will become. And don't pull the "speed" bullshit, I can make a heavy run faster than any assault while still having my 1000+ HP and the raw power doom machines. No, you can't. And even if you could, it still wouldn't matter. Heavies are about combat domination. They serve no other role. An assault can transition where he needs to fast, and brawl with everyone else. He can use his one equipment slot to supplement where his squad is weakest. A scout can assassinate, provide radar for his team, and speed hack objectives. Logis keep everything together. Without a good logi, your team needs only a single wipeout and you're done. The balance is decent. Assaults need help, but most of the balance is decent. Things, for the most part, work how they should. Scouts are FOTM because they have total situational awareness, and can do an assaults job better than an assault can. That is a singular problem that needs fixing. Most of everything else falls into line.
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries Dirt Nap Squad. 8811	Posted - 2014.04.22 13:02:00 - [44] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Himiko Kuronaga wrote: By introducing the snare effect you don't have to directly compare the PLC to the forge, because they serve different functions. A forge kills tankers who screw up. A swarm launcher assists a combined effort, or deters. They are not things to be held on the same level of performance. An HMG will out DPS a shotgun, and outrange it. Both are CQC, one is clearly better. The shotgun is made good by the suit it is attached to, but the HMG being a heavy weapon is good all by itself. Heavy weapons > light weapons in raw power for their intended role. The plasma cannon cannot be better than the forge gun in its intended role. A guy with a plasma cannon can lay down links. Can fight off infantry with his sidearm. A heavy with a forge has only one job, and you would have him outperformed by the PLC. That is game design stupidity. If he was on the bridge map, or three point in a cargo hub, he would dominate on any of the outside points with a PLC and dominate the lower point of a cargo hub entirely unchallenged. Why would you ever field a forge? At the range provided its way too easy to hit tanks there. No. The PLC is too applicable where it matters to give it a major damage buff. It needs an assist role. Everyone will run heavies in your vision of the game, with just logistics support. That's literally what the game will become. And don't pull the "speed" bullshit, I can make a heavy run faster than any assault while still having my 1000+ HP and the raw power doom machines. No, you can't. I damn near invented the kincat sentinel, so don't try to lie to me about how fast it can go. Sprint speed isn't movement speed anyway. And even if you could, it still wouldn't matter. Heavies are about combat domination. They serve no other role. An assault can transition where he needs to fast, and brawl with everyone else. He can use his one equipment slot to supplement where his squad is weakest. A scout can assassinate, provide radar for his team, and speed hack objectives. Logis keep everything together. Without a good logi, your team needs only a single wipeout and you're done. The balance is decent. Assaults need help, but most of the balance is decent. Things, for the most part, work how they should. Scouts are FOTM because they have total situational awareness, and can do an assaults job better than an assault can. That is a singular problem that needs fixing. Most of everything else falls into line. Alright, one scout, one logi, and 4 heavies. That's all you need. "No, you can't. I damn near invented the kincat sentinel, so don't try to lie to me about how fast it can go. Sprint speed isn't movement speed anyway." Two kin cats on a Minmatar sentinel and it's at 7.44m/s. My Militia minmatar sentinel outdoes my Gallente assault in every way possible, other than the equipment part, which I have squad mates that can more than take care of that. Overlord of all humans CAT MERC
Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution Dirt Nap Squad. 3563	Posted - 2014.04.22 13:07:00 - [45] - Quote Put kincats on your assault and suddenly he's faster than your heavy. Crazy eh? Again, sprint speed is not movement speed. Sprint speed doesn't help you in combat. Movement speed does.
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries Dirt Nap Squad. 8811	Posted - 2014.04.22 13:08:00 - [46] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Put kincats on your assault and suddenly he's faster than your heavy. Crazy eh? Again, sprint speed is not movement speed. Sprint speed doesn't help you in combat. Movement speed does. Put kin cats on your assault and suddenly you can't actually fight against that heavy with kin cats. Heavies completely negate the enemies movement speed, the HMG's spread makes it so that strafing doesn't even matter. Overlord of all humans CAT MERC
Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution Dirt Nap Squad. 3564	Posted - 2014.04.22 13:13:00 - [47] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Put kincats on your assault and suddenly he's faster than your heavy. Crazy eh? Again, sprint speed is not movement speed. Sprint speed doesn't help you in combat. Movement speed does. Put kin cats on your assault and suddenly you can't actually fight against that heavy with kin cats. Heavies completely negate the enemies movement speed, the HMG's spread makes it so that strafing doesn't even matter. Assaults can't fight against anything. Your point is moot. We've already established they need help. Running 4 heavies is a bad idea though. Your scout has a certain radius in which his radar are useful and if he goes outside of that for any reason your team is blind. If he dies, your team is blind. Two scouts covers it better, then two heavies, two logis. Thats an ideal city squad. Two logis keeps links up, because there is always going to one guy link hunting just as fervently as the one putting them down. Two heavies combat threats at the point with HMG's. So where does the assault fit into this? Nowhere, because the single scout does a better job and gives better radar coverage. That doesn't mean heavies are magically faster though, just because you're comparing a complex kincat decked out heavy to a completely unfit assault for some ridiculous reason.
Prius Vecht Red and Silver Hand Amarr Empire 335	Posted - 2014.04.22 13:13:00 - [48] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: And if you have a snare on the tank, none of that matters does it? He isn't going anywhere anytime soon. Right now if you put two guys with swarms on a tank, the tank will probably get away. If you replaced one of those swarms with a PLC that had a snare, then the AV tag team would win. If you give the PLC big damage instead, the tank would probably get away again unless the buff was so ridiculously outrageous that no one need ever run any other form of AV ever again. The plasma cannon, im sorry to tell you, isn't that difficult to hit a vehicle. So drop that argument. It's hard to KILL a vehicle with. But then, its the same way for swarms and forges right now. It's difficult for any solo AV to do this job right. What I'm telling you is that if you give it a snare, it buffs AV duos or incredibly good commandos to the point it is much easier to take down HAV's. If you can put a snaring plasma cannon in the city, why in their right mind is going to want to rush into the city with a tank? That's a risky proposition. He's close, you're a big target, he has cover, you can't get away, the entire enemy team is surrounding you... nasty stuff. Now it sounds like you just want a solo AV weapon that can wreck everything, to which I say no. That is not the way vehicles versus infantry has been balanced and it shouldn't be balanced that way. Snare actually best idea i've seen in a long time. Also rejects the notion that damage is the only way to buff. Would still agree that the firing arc needs to go, however.
843-BANE BurgezzE.T.F General Tso's Alliance 1139	Posted - 2014.04.22 15:07:00 - [49] - Quote I recently went full-proto on the PLC (Possibly akin to going full something else {watch Tropic thunder}]. It is truly, an awful, awful weapon. It is THE most satisfying weapon to kill someone with in the game, especially when you get a ranged kill. There is nothing more satisfying than getting an arc that hits. BUT, you will only ever kill 3 types of people consistently: - Low EHP Heavies - Snipers - Complete morons who stand still The only other kills you will get WILL be luck, idc if anyone manages to land a trick shot it will boil down to luck 80% of the time. Low damage, low splash, low RoF, 1 shot per clip, Arc'd shot, poor AV, slow travel time, bares a charge up time. There are NO advantages to using a plasma cannon other than to feel pretty good about yourself when you land a kill with it. It's fun, but then it gets real old, fast. There are no situations where you would EVER think "Oh darn, if only I had my plasma cannon". It's pure novelty. There are some people who don't want it changed as they think they're extra special for sometimes getting above average kills with the plasma cannon, but seriously, no-one cares. It needs a buff in at least one department. I personally think it should be turned into an RPG style weapon, similar to this Dust 2009 swarm launcher thingy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ED-YF-v7WCw#t=56 High damage, low splash, 1 shot per clip, straight shot, STRONGER AGAINST AV THAN INFANTRY (But can still deliver a 1hit direct kill to any infantry). Because this may then be viewed as OP, I think the awful splash damage should be kept intact so you have to hit dead on, and that charge up time should also remain. Also if said buff were in place, I'd suggest decreasing ammo capacity to 5 shots before you have to hit a hive/depot. This would mean the weapon carries High-risk but High-reward. At the moment the gun is High risk - Low reward. And tbh, "low reward" doesn't even kind of describe it. My idea carries flaws but, well, so do all of yours :D Director // Major // BurgezzE.T.F 18-1 -é-+-ànderdo-+e record \|\| +¦ a-+ -é-+e op+¦a-ée
Gaurdian Satyr Glitched Connection 158	Posted - 2014.04.22 15:10:00 - [50] - Quote Add i buff to plc to were i can jump 10m high if i shot it under me -holds arms in O- throw it in the story basket bro

Roofer Madness 1072	Posted - 2014.04.22 15:32:00 - [51] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Himiko Kuronaga wrote: And if you have a snare on the tank, none of that matters does it? He isn't going anywhere anytime soon. Right now if you put two guys with swarms on a tank, the tank will probably get away. If you replaced one of those swarms with a PLC that had a snare, then the AV tag team would win. If you give the PLC big damage instead, the tank would probably get away again unless the buff was so ridiculously outrageous that no one need ever run any other form of AV ever again. The plasma cannon, im sorry to tell you, isn't that difficult to hit a vehicle. So drop that argument. It's hard to KILL a vehicle with. But then, its the same way for swarms and forges right now. It's difficult for any solo AV to do this job right. What I'm telling you is that if you give it a snare, it buffs AV duos or incredibly good commandos to the point it is much easier to take down HAV's. If you can put a snaring plasma cannon in the city, why in their right mind is going to want to rush into the city with a tank? That's a risky proposition. He's close, you're a big target, he has cover, you can't get away, the entire enemy team is surrounding you... nasty stuff. Now it sounds like you just want a solo AV weapon that can wreck everything, to which I say no. That is not the way vehicles versus infantry has been balanced and it shouldn't be balanced that way. To me it sounds like you want webifiers. I don't want my only AV weapon to be a ******* web, I want to behave like a Gallente weapon would - Devastating at close range. And if they will go the route of your suggestion they better double the ammo capacity on that thing because I will be sitting there pounding tanks for 10 minutes before they finally give up and get out to kill me. (Exaggeration but still) Well guess what? You would be doing exactly what every other form of AV is currently doing against tanks when they operate solo. Infantry deter HAV's solo, they do not kill solo. Not against good tanks. And you're not going to do more damage than a heavy weapon. Especially not when you can hold two of the damn things. Get those delusions out of your head good sir. If you were to get any form of damage increase it would be on the plasma MORTAR, the Gallente heavy weapon. Not the Plasma cannon, a light weapon that any tard can run around with. Hey I resemble that remark. I spent half my ISK on gambling, alcohol and wild women. The rest I wasted.
Soldner VonKuechle SAM-MIK General Tso's Alliance 564	Posted - 2014.04.22 15:53:00 - [52] - Quote Gonna have to say himiko makes the stronger argument. Sorry cat, even the best fall down sometime. Deciphering the truth from a web of lies is far easier than you'd think. Especially if you're a bureaucrat.
Lorhak Gannarsein Science For Death 2882	Posted - 2014.04.22 16:15:00 - [53] - Quote Soldner VonKuechle wrote: Gonna have to say himiko makes the stronger argument. Sorry cat, even the best fall down sometime. Which is not to say the PLC doesn't need a damage buff (slightly), but that damage is a really lazy way of balancing it. ak.0 4 LYFE I am the Lorhak. I speak for the trees.
Soldner VonKuechle SAM-MIK General Tso's Alliance 564	Posted - 2014.04.22 17:06:00 - [54] - Quote Lorhak Gannarsein wrote: Soldner VonKuechle wrote: Gonna have to say himiko makes the stronger argument. Sorry cat, even the best fall down sometime. Which is not to say the PLC doesn't need a damage buff (slightly), but that damage is a really lazy way of balancing it. Correct. It's time to start thinking larger than just damage or reload speed. Which both do need to be looked at. Deciphering the truth from a web of lies is far easier than you'd think. Especially if you're a bureaucrat.


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