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Monkey MAC
Rough Riders..
2609
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Posted - 2014.04.22 14:02:00 -
[31] - Quote
Nothing Certain wrote:True Adamance wrote:Mojo XXXIII wrote:Alena Ventrallis wrote:Atiim wrote:
Would you happen to have a quote from a DEV stating this?
I'm pretty sure there isn't one. Swarms should be good at AV, but they should not be able to solo any vehicle regardless of fit. This is my issue with buffing them, save for the changes I mention in the OP. Sooooo, a specifically anti-vehicle weapon that is incapable of destroying a vehicle? That's dumb. It costs the same as any other AV weapon, requires the same SP commitments, and is completely useless against infantry, why shouldn't it be able to solo a vehicle, like ANY other AV weapon? I'm not dumping 10 million skill points into a vehicle-specific weapon without the expectation that I will, in fact, be able to destroy vehicles with it. Otherwise, why spec into it at all? To help someone else destroy a vehicle, maybe get a few damage points and, if I'm really lucky, an assist? Sorry, not worth it. I'm not saying it should be EASY, just that it should be POSSIBLE, for ANY AV weapon to solo a vehicle. Of course it should be possible to solo a vehicle with any AV weapon, that common sense and any tanker that denies that..... well..... But it depends how easy that solo should be. I personally sit in the camp of not easy, otherwise the skill and feeling of reward goes out of tank busting. Consequently HAV should never be invulnerable to AV on a permanent basis...if ever...... but should I feel be able to be highly resistant for a short time, or able to strategically cycle modules. So are you ever scared of a solo Swarmer taking you out? I doubt it, most tankers are free to ignore them if they want.
I think your missing his point. He is saying by all means a swarm launcher should be capable of soloing any tank, but the AVer has to work hard for that kill.
It shouldn't be as simple as pop, pop, pop dead tank. But at the same time a tanker should not be capable of just ignoring him while he slaughters nearby infantry.
I already solo the dummer tankers already, you can usually place 2 RE on a stationary tanker before he notices, followed up by 2 packed AV gremades and 2 swarm volleys the RE's will often finish a tank. Done correctly I inflict about 9,000 - 18,000 damage in around 12 seconds. Most tankers don't know what hit them and those that do can't do nothing about it. However mobile tankers or tank swarms are currently impoosible due to lack of ammo capacity and the unbeatable accuracy of a blaster, you can't engage a tanker if he knows your there from the start, which more is the case more often than not.
As fof Odigios, they are light AV, not A light V, they are as much a primary av weapon as forges or tanks. Anything but is secerly broken.
Unless your a Computer Scientist don't tell me how Game Mechanics Work.
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl 2.
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Nothing Certain
Bioshock Rejects
509
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Posted - 2014.04.22 14:42:00 -
[32] - Quote
I understood his point. My point is that swarms aren't a threat by themselves. How easy should it be? Well, as easy as it is for a tanker to solo me as an AV'er really. A player in a MLT tank and a player in ADV AV have the same ISK expenditure, why should the tank be clearly superior? Why should the tanker easily solo the AV but the AV have to work hard to solo the tank? In the case of swarms, AV can't really solo tanks at all. Why should one player gain such an advantage over another player?
Because, that's why.
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Obodiah Garro
Tech guard
RISE of LEGION
949
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Posted - 2014.04.22 15:19:00 -
[33] - Quote
Proto swarms are not fine, they are barely balanced against STD HAV
Swarms are still in a ****** up place atm, they need more lock range and more scaled damage, a 50% dmg buff to STD would hurt either so they are relevant against STD HAV.
Nemo me impune lacessit
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Lv2spd2
Slow And Old
280
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Posted - 2014.04.22 15:28:00 -
[34] - Quote
Jet Starflyer wrote:Swarms are in a pretty decent spot right now. The prototype version definitely doesn't need any buffs, at least concerning dropships.
Of course a pilot doesn't think they need help against dropships. The fact is that the ADS can just outrun them any time they want, either straight up or on the level. In addition the Incubus (as of yesterday at least) was still taking only 55% dmg from swarms. I personally had an instance where 2 of us with proto swarms against a rep tanked incubus fired all 6 possible volleys at an incubus, the last pair of volleys finally forced it to fly away. It was back at full health before we could refill our ammo off a basic hive.
So all ADS could just outrun them, and a rep tanked Incubus could just ignore them. Doesn't sound to me like being in a good place. |
Alena Ventrallis
PAND3M0N1UM
Top Men.
1206
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Posted - 2014.04.22 17:31:00 -
[35] - Quote
Lv2spd2 wrote:Jet Starflyer wrote:Swarms are in a pretty decent spot right now. The prototype version definitely doesn't need any buffs, at least concerning dropships. Of course a pilot doesn't think they need help against dropships. The fact is that the ADS can just outrun them any time they want, either straight up or on the level. In addition the Incubus (as of yesterday at least) was still taking only 55% dmg from swarms. I personally had an instance where 2 of us with proto swarms against a rep tanked incubus fired all 6 possible volleys at an incubus, the last pair of volleys finally forced it to fly away. It was back at full health before we could refill our ammo off a basic hive. So all ADS could just outrun them, and a rep tanked Incubus could just ignore them. Doesn't sound to me like being in a good place.
This has nothing to do with the swarms themselves.
ADS should be able t outrun them. This is their defence. They are speed tankers, much like scouts.
ADS should not have a resistance to swams. If anything, they should have a resistance to forges, and swarms should be their hard counter.
And again I say, he set up his dropship to handle your swarms. He would've been one shotted by my railgun, because he wasn't set up to handle high alpha damage.
That's what you get!! - DA Rick
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Reign Omega
BurgezzE.T.F
General Tso's Alliance
362
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Posted - 2014.04.22 17:47:00 -
[36] - Quote
Killing tanks, dropships, LAVs, baby seals...all with my wiyrkomi. Commando 5, swarms prof 4, 1 cdmg, I think reload 3? There are some that get away, some that don't and that's how it should be. It's not a surefire win, and I like it that way. I like for skill to play the deciding factor in most engagements. If that doesn't work I have prototype forges, and a scout with proximity and remotes. I like to kill vehicles.
That's gallente commando by the way.
Observe the public trust. Protect the innocent. Uphold the law.
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Ghost Kaisar
Fatal Absolution
Dirt Nap Squad.
4352
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Posted - 2014.04.22 17:48:00 -
[37] - Quote
Alena Ventrallis wrote:Atiim wrote:Odigos Ellinas wrote:Light AV weapons are more a support role for the main AV gear.
Would you happen to have a quote from a DEV stating this? I'm pretty sure there isn't one. Swarms should be good at AV, but they should not be able to solo any vehicle regardless of fit. This is my issue with buffing them, save for the changes I mention in the OP.
Swarms are also good for just keeping non-blaster vehicles at bay. Dropships and Rail-tanks don't like swarms if they can't really hurt you back.
I run AV for my squad just to try and keep the bulk of vehicles away from them. Have another guy in the squad run AV nades to back me up, and it does a good job of keeping vehicles away from us. Most tankers prefer easy meals instead of infantry that can bite back.
I got my cloak and daggers, I'm a very happy Ghost
I hack at Mach V
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noob cavman
Heaven's Lost Property
Dirt Nap Squad.
1280
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Posted - 2014.04.22 17:51:00 -
[38] - Quote
3 remotes, 2 lai dai and wiki swarms with 2 damage mods.
I want to be a caveman!
Ccp: DENIED YOU DRUNK
Gö+GöüGö+ n+¦pâ+(`-ö´)n+ën+¦ Gö+GöüGö+
Jollys quirky inconsistent sidekick.
dem spandex yo
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Reign Omega
BurgezzE.T.F
General Tso's Alliance
362
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Posted - 2014.04.22 17:54:00 -
[39] - Quote
Ghost Kaisar wrote:Alena Ventrallis wrote:Atiim wrote:Odigos Ellinas wrote:Light AV weapons are more a support role for the main AV gear.
Would you happen to have a quote from a DEV stating this? I'm pretty sure there isn't one. Swarms should be good at AV, but they should not be able to solo any vehicle regardless of fit. This is my issue with buffing them, save for the changes I mention in the OP. Swarms are also good for just keeping non-blaster vehicles at bay. Dropships and Rail-tanks don't like swarms if they can't really hurt you back. I run AV for my squad just to try and keep the bulk of vehicles away from them. Have another guy in the squad run AV nades to back me up, and it does a good job of keeping vehicles away from us. Most tankers prefer easy meals instead of infantry that can bite back.
Also you'd be surprised at how long a tanker will sit and fight one solo AV effectively removing himself from the match. I like to take them off to a quiet romantic spot and toss down a nanohive and just rack up damage points if it's a tank I can't kill solo.
Observe the public trust. Protect the innocent. Uphold the law.
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Ghost Kaisar
Fatal Absolution
Dirt Nap Squad.
4356
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Posted - 2014.04.22 17:59:00 -
[40] - Quote
Reign Omega wrote:Ghost Kaisar wrote:Alena Ventrallis wrote:Atiim wrote:Odigos Ellinas wrote:Light AV weapons are more a support role for the main AV gear.
Would you happen to have a quote from a DEV stating this? I'm pretty sure there isn't one. Swarms should be good at AV, but they should not be able to solo any vehicle regardless of fit. This is my issue with buffing them, save for the changes I mention in the OP. Swarms are also good for just keeping non-blaster vehicles at bay. Dropships and Rail-tanks don't like swarms if they can't really hurt you back. I run AV for my squad just to try and keep the bulk of vehicles away from them. Have another guy in the squad run AV nades to back me up, and it does a good job of keeping vehicles away from us. Most tankers prefer easy meals instead of infantry that can bite back. Also you'd be surprised at how long a tanker will sit and fight one solo AV effectively removing himself from the match. I like to take them off to a quiet romantic spot and toss down a nanohive and just rack up damage points if it's a tank I can't kill solo.
Those WP's too.
If you regulate yourself too killing off LAV's and annoying any and all tanks/dropships you find, AV is actually a really fun role.
Min Assault can also run an Assault SMG, giving him decent anti-infantry capabilities.
I got my cloak and daggers, I'm a very happy Ghost
I hack at Mach V
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