DUST Search - Buffing the assault role

lithkul devant wrote:

Scouts, you have to admit something is wrong when you have 500+ armor and around 100shield and can move faster then a medium suit, you can dissappear from sight, you have better defenses against radar and being spotted and you have a smaller hit box. Right now scouts are better in every single way then a assault suit is, even the proto assault suits are not equal to the proto scout suits. This is an obvious inbalance in the game, especially when you have things like the CR which can easily do the highest dps in the game, even higher the HMGs I believe when you have the auto controller.

This always goes back to the fact, that the rifles in this game RR, CR, and AR are the ones that are the most unbalanced, such as when people would go up on the mushroom with the Duoville and literally mow people down from 135 meters or more away. We've had other issues like this before, with even side arms, I'm sure you all can remember getting ohk by a side arm and going WTF! The mass driver even had its day in the sun, when scouts used to curse its exsistance because of the splash damage.

Now the problem with the scout is not just that the cloaking mechanic doesn't always work as intended, such as it can make players literally invisible. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KSBICx2yyZo Watch this and you will see exactly the issue at times. The problem is, you now have a unit that is broken in multiple different ways, and it has no way of being backed down without fundamentally changing the game as a whole. Specialization needs to occur in this game, yes you should be allowed to put whatever you want on a basic frame, but on a Sentinel or a Scout, as the two main examples these need to be more limited in the available options you can have on them. I do not claim to know what those limitations might be, but a limiting of weapons would be one of them as long as a respec to just weapons occured. Though I am unsure if this is the final answer, maybe we need to have better stacking penalties so that the scouts do not put so much armor on and become tank built slayers.

For those of you that want more about how the cloak is not working properly, which is you decloak first then able to fire, or least should be https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dj8vXTqgw1M shows many excellent examples of it failing. If even more proof of how bad it can be at times https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJwVo_tFHY8

Though after looking for a while, this is my favorite of all with the nova knife bug https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3NdqS2xeO7g

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Text Grant Death Firm. Canis Eliminatus Operatives 381	Posted - 2014.04.25 22:13:00 - [31] - Quote I really dont care that you have been doing it since closed beta. That is not a reason to keep a broken mechanic.
lithkul devant Legions of Infinite Dominion Zero-Day 190	Posted - 2014.04.26 01:39:00 - [32] - Quote Scouts, you have to admit something is wrong when you have 500+ armor and around 100shield and can move faster then a medium suit, you can dissappear from sight, you have better defenses against radar and being spotted and you have a smaller hit box. Right now scouts are better in every single way then a assault suit is, even the proto assault suits are not equal to the proto scout suits. This is an obvious inbalance in the game, especially when you have things like the CR which can easily do the highest dps in the game, even higher the HMGs I believe when you have the auto controller. This always goes back to the fact, that the rifles in this game RR, CR, and AR are the ones that are the most unbalanced, such as when people would go up on the mushroom with the Duoville and literally mow people down from 135 meters or more away. We've had other issues like this before, with even side arms, I'm sure you all can remember getting ohk by a side arm and going WTF! The mass driver even had its day in the sun, when scouts used to curse its exsistance because of the splash damage. Now the problem with the scout is not just that the cloaking mechanic doesn't always work as intended, such as it can make players literally invisible. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KSBICx2yyZo Watch this and you will see exactly the issue at times. The problem is, you now have a unit that is broken in multiple different ways, and it has no way of being backed down without fundamentally changing the game as a whole. Specialization needs to occur in this game, yes you should be allowed to put whatever you want on a basic frame, but on a Sentinel or a Scout, as the two main examples these need to be more limited in the available options you can have on them. I do not claim to know what those limitations might be, but a limiting of weapons would be one of them as long as a respec to just weapons occured. Though I am unsure if this is the final answer, maybe we need to have better stacking penalties so that the scouts do not put so much armor on and become tank built slayers.
Text Grant Death Firm. Canis Eliminatus Operatives 381	Posted - 2014.04.26 12:34:00 - [33] - Quote lithkul devant wrote: Scouts, you have to admit something is wrong when you have 500+ armor and around 100shield and can move faster then a medium suit, you can dissappear from sight, you have better defenses against radar and being spotted and you have a smaller hit box. Right now scouts are better in every single way then a assault suit is, even the proto assault suits are not equal to the proto scout suits. This is an obvious inbalance in the game, especially when you have things like the CR which can easily do the highest dps in the game, even higher the HMGs I believe when you have the auto controller. This always goes back to the fact, that the rifles in this game RR, CR, and AR are the ones that are the most unbalanced, such as when people would go up on the mushroom with the Duoville and literally mow people down from 135 meters or more away. We've had other issues like this before, with even side arms, I'm sure you all can remember getting ohk by a side arm and going WTF! The mass driver even had its day in the sun, when scouts used to curse its exsistance because of the splash damage. Now the problem with the scout is not just that the cloaking mechanic doesn't always work as intended, such as it can make players literally invisible. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KSBICx2yyZo Watch this and you will see exactly the issue at times. The problem is, you now have a unit that is broken in multiple different ways, and it has no way of being backed down without fundamentally changing the game as a whole. Specialization needs to occur in this game, yes you should be allowed to put whatever you want on a basic frame, but on a Sentinel or a Scout, as the two main examples these need to be more limited in the available options you can have on them. I do not claim to know what those limitations might be, but a limiting of weapons would be one of them as long as a respec to just weapons occured. Though I am unsure if this is the final answer, maybe we need to have better stacking penalties so that the scouts do not put so much armor on and become tank built slayers. For those of you that want more about how the cloak is not working properly, which is you decloak first then able to fire, or least should be https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dj8vXTqgw1M shows many excellent examples of it failing. If even more proof of how bad it can be at times https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJwVo_tFHY8 Though after looking for a while, this is my favorite of all with the nova knife bug https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3NdqS2xeO7g Nice to see someone with a brain. What do you think about the logis, and heavies? They couldn't use the medium weapons either
lithkul devant Legions of Infinite Dominion Zero-Day 193	Posted - 2014.04.27 01:44:00 - [34] - Quote /watch?v=3NdqS2xeO7g[/quote] Nice to see someone with a brain. What do you think about the logis, and heavies? They couldn't use the medium weapons either[/quote] When talking about logis, these units are made for support, but as many people have shown it can be a slayer and it shouldn't be taken out of this role entirely either, it should have enough armor/shields to survive but it should not be beating assault suits every time 1v1. Possibly a way to limit logis when applying the "medium" weapon limit is to make it so that logis can only use their own racial rifle and anything that is considered light weaponry or lower. In this way you could limit down the amount of rifles possible they could use without taking them out entirely. Though doing anything towards logis is....very tricky, people would complain that the logi bonuses don't match up with the gun they wish to use or that one logi is so much better then another as we already have. Heavies though have to be divided into three different parts, which are Commando, Sentinel, Basic, the whole problem with limiting heavies at the current time being is that we do not have enough heavy weapons. When we get enough weapons, the H slot for Sentinel should be for heavy weapons only, however, that's also assuming that nearly 4-7 heavy weapons are added to the game to make it up to the amount of weapons sidearms and light weapons currently have. The Commando could still be effective if it was allowed to use its own racial variant rifle for 1 of the slots. Otherwise you have to completely modify the commandos as they currently are, since many of them are tied into the racial variant rifles, without the rifles the commandos become very hard to play. The Sentinel is the class that could eventually be locked down to Heavy weapons for the H slot, as long as the heavy weapons were good enough to cover the distances they need to be able to compete against the racial variant rifles. Right now it is to early to limit the Sentinels down to the Heavy grouping. The basic though, this is where we get to the issue, would they be allowed to use all the racial variant rifles or not, I would think they would get that ability since they do not get the skills of a Sentinel for damage absorption. Though you would get the assault classes complaining that the heavies were able to use their rifles. Though I think because they are not specialized they should be able to use the M class weapons, or least the racial variant rifle that the suit belongs to.
Yan Darn Science For Death 681	Posted - 2014.04.27 02:19:00 - [35] - Quote Sorry, misunderstood the thread title. I thought I was going to see suggestions on ways to bring the assault up to par with the other roles. Instead I saw a suggestions on how to nerf other roles. I suppose it could work. Unimaginative and sucks fun from the game, but would technically achieve the desired effect. Scouts should have tried this pre 1.8 and maybe we wouldn't have this bother now. 'Med frames can do our (poorly implemented/unclear) role better - nerf med frames' 'Our PG/CPU sucks considering the cost of ewar and Biotics mods - nerf logi pg/cpu' 'Our EHP sucks compared to what we get in return - nerf med EHP' 'Our speed/stamina isn't that great compared to assaults - nerf assault speed/stamina' The Ghost of Bravo
Drecain Midular Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 5	Posted - 2014.04.27 10:22:00 - [36] - Quote A much better way to make scouts viable again would be to take the commando suits +dmg bonuses and give them to the assault suits and give +reload speed/+range bonuses to the commandos. That would make the assaults, y'know, assault-y and the commandos fire support...
Text Grant Death Firm. Canis Eliminatus Operatives 382	Posted - 2014.04.28 10:58:00 - [37] - Quote Drecain Midular wrote: A much better way to make scouts viable again would be to take the commando suits +dmg bonuses and give them to the assault suits and give +reload speed/+range bonuses to the commandos. That would make the assaults, y'know, assault-y and the commandos fire support... I'm fine with commando's, and I don't think a damage buff would be enough to make up for invisible assault options
DEZKA DIABLO THE FOOTCLAN 676	Posted - 2014.04.28 21:15:00 - [38] - Quote Text Grant wrote: Dunce Masterson wrote: DEZKA DIABLO wrote: You wanna buff assaults, do it by actually buffing them not screwing over anyone else. Fast shield regens, weapon fitting reductions, a grenade and a flux nade slot, better precision , things like this not scrapping everyone's skill tree. -1 If they increased the fitting requirements of the weapons then they would need to increase the fitting bonus on the assault suits as they are now they can now fit a full proto set up with good fitting skills. here is my 2 cents; how about adding the benefits of complex shield and armor modules without the penalties to the assault suits over the scout suits. +66 shield hit points better recharge rate and a shorter delay in shield recharge time and +135 armor hit points and then give the Assaults 1 more module slot then their scout counter parts (the same amount on all of them 7). and to one of the above posters the SCR does not need another nerf the rail rifle is still op and is in need of the reduction you suggested for the SCR, now for the weapon specialization they should of done the opposite in my opinion. Assaults are supposed to be weapon masters. Heavies are supposed to be brick tanks. I don't agree with any idea to buff brick tanking medium or light suits My remotes got NERFED cuz you whine like a B!+Gé¼[-]!
DEZKA DIABLO THE FOOTCLAN 676	Posted - 2014.04.28 21:16:00 - [39] - Quote Then what is this magical number of HP we should all be capped at? My remotes got NERFED cuz you whine like a B!+Gé¼[-]!
Text Grant Death Firm. Canis Eliminatus Operatives 383	Posted - 2014.05.24 02:58:00 - [40] - Quote Bump

Text Grant Death Firm. Canis Eliminatus Operatives 383	Posted - 2014.05.24 22:45:00 - [41] - Quote DEZKA DIABLO wrote: Then what is this magical number of HP we should all be capped at? Not anything to do with the OP
Text Grant Death Firm. Canis Eliminatus Operatives 383	Posted - 2014.05.27 02:18:00 - [42] - Quote Bump


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