I agree with everything except for being able to run solo as a scout. I run solo a lot, and it is definitely harder than it ever has been before, precisely because the suits are fixed.

Otherwise, you hit the mark exactly.

I actually agree with my fellow king here.

Against organized teams its now harder than ever.
Sure i can cloak and go to town, but the enemy will have ALSO cloaked enemies, some even with shotgun, and whats even worst, my New Love and soon to be suit, Proto Caldari scouts XD

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I agree completely, The assault needs a revamp.
A reason to exist.
If not , they might as well just leave logis as med frames....

Just spitballing here: what if we converted assaults to the scout-size hitbox and scout speed? Scouts keep stealth and ewar, assaults become just as fast and keep their weapon-related bonuses.

That is indeed true. I run solo frequently and it's pretty difficult against organized groups. Scrubs are still easy to pick off one at a time but squads that travel together are a lot tougher, especially when someone is using Caldari scout.

It's the Assault suits. They suck. Heavies are the best they've ever been, Logi's are as good as they've been for months and Scouts are as good as ever. Though, Assault's are bad. Or maybe bad isn't the right word. Assault suits lack a reason to to be used.

Want to be an unstoppable killing machine and kill entire rooms while taking Forge gun salvos to the face? Use a Heavy.

Want to be sneaky, fast and play well solo? Then use a Scout.

Want to help everybody be the best they can be, while raking in the ISK? Use a Logi.

??? - Assault suit?

The Assault suit lacks a real reason to use. Heck even the commando is good for sniping, the laser rifle, plasma cannon and MD. The Assault suit, there's never a reason to skill into one.

It's the Assault suits. They suck. Heavies are the best they've ever been, Logi's are as good as they've been for months and Scouts are as good as ever. Though, Assault's are bad. Or maybe bad isn't the right word. Assault suits lack a reason to to be used.

Want to be an unstoppable killing machine and kill entire rooms while taking Forge gun salvos to the face? Use a Heavy.

Want to be sneaky, fast and play well solo? Then use a Scout.

Want to help everybody be the best they can be, while raking in the ISK? Use a Logi.

??? - Assault suit?

The Assault suit lacks a real reason to use. Heck even the commando is good for sniping, the laser rifle, plasma cannon and MD. The Assault suit, there's never a reason to skill into one.

The 6 at STD, 7 at ADV, 8 at PRO mod slot plan would make mediums competitive, & slayer brick-tanked scouts won't be able to out-tank & outperform medium frames at their own jobs. There is no need to nerf scouts, simply raise mod slot count on medium suits & the brick-tanked scouts won't be an issue. This thread was created before the brick-tanked scout problem, but I strongly believe my proposed slot layout solution for mediums will solve the issue. Read on, I will explain.




There are big problems with the medium frame slot layouts that need to be addressed. "Too long; didn't read" (TL;DR) version on post 2 (click here).



Slayer logi issue originates from the logis to tank more HP than their assault counterparts, allowing them to be more survivable killing platforms. This problem won't truly go away until the slots are handled correctly, just right now brick-tank scouts are bigger issue.

Logis sacrifice sidearms, mobility, & base HP in exchange for for 2-3 more equipment (equip) slots than their assault counterparts. That seems like a fair deal, but on top of the 2 or 3 more equip slots, there is some crazy weirdness with the slot layouts that leads to imbalance.

- At standard (STD) tier all logis (with the odd exception of the Amarr (Am) one) have inferior module (mod) slot layouts compared to the STD assault counterparts.
- Advanced (ADV) tier logis either get equal or superior mod slot layouts compared to their ADV assault counterparts.
- Prototype (PRO) tier logis all gain an extra low slot than their PRO assault counterpart, the caldari one also gains an extra high slot also.

Summary: logis underpowered (UP) at STD tier, balanced or overpowered (OP) at ADV, & all OP at PRO.

No reason for the Caldari (Cal) logi only having 2 equip at STD instead of 3; it isn't gaining anything extra compared to other STD logis or its assault counterpart for the sacrifice. The STD Cal logi is UP even compared to the other UP STD logis.

There is also the issue of the Am medium slot layouts. 1.8 has Am mediums shifting from hybrid tanking (equal shields & armor) to predominantly having armor; this requires a slot layout change of more low slots for effective armor tanking. Right now the progression of Am mediums is odd, they start with more high slots (2 at militia (MLT) & STD).

Am assault has less mod slots than other assaults. Yes it has a tiny 30 more base HP than the Caldari & Gallente assault, a small advantage already countered by being the slowest assault. It should be noted that the Am scout, Am sentinel, & Am commando also has more base HP compared to the other races' dropsuits of the same roles, yet these other Am suits aren't forced to give up a slot; neither should the Am assault since the extra HP is already balanced by the speed loss. This issue makes the Am assault suffer the most from the brick-tanked scout problem, since the Am scout has more mod slots at STD-ADV than the assault, & same mod slot count at PRO; this allows the Am scout to surpass the Am assault in HP, while being faster, having a 2nd equip, stealthier, etc.

Part 1: assault & logi

Give the Cal logistics 3 equip slots at STD. Also 4 equip at PRO (reduce mod slot from 9 to 8 in exchange).

Give all assaults the same number of mod slots.

Equalize the mod slot layouts for assaults & logis of the same race & tier:

Assault & logi STD (high/low)
Am: 2/4
Ga: 2/4
Ca: 4/2 (+1 equip for logi)
Min: 3/3

Assault & logi ADV
Am: 2/5
Ga: 3/4
Ca: 5/2
Min: 4/3

Assault & logi PRO
Am: 3/5
Ga: 3/5
Ca: 5/3 (+1 equip for logi)
Min: 4/4


[ REMOVED BASIC MEDIUM STUFF TO SAVE SPACE ]


Obviously PG/CPU should be tweaked
Both assaults & logis have the same mod slot counts: 6 STD, 7 ADV, 8 PRO. Most logis did not get a mod slot nerf in this plan

Again Wolf, you will make the Assault suit incredibly overpowered.

No, at prorotype most assaults would only have 1 more module slot than they currently do. I replied to your concerns in my thread before, I guess you didn't see it.

You want a Min Assault with 4/4

It isn't just assault suits. Running logi for a squad now is both suicide and a way to set isk on fire, because a logi suit costs so much more than an assault suit of the same level and still dies in one or two shots to a scout. Who rushes into your tightly grouped squad, assassinates the logi, then jumps over something to cloak up and then repeats that stunt with every member of the squad. Naturally, before this happened he and his scout friends took out all of the uplinks on the map so when you respawn it's on the MCC.

I love how there are so many threads complaining about x module/weapon/dropsuit being the issue with most of them disagreeing.
So we're not certain what the issue is? Oh hey, I guess CCP did something almost right for once!

That said, the assault suit is pretty much just the worst suit right now, so I agree with this particular variety of thread.

Clearly you were playing a smart opponent. If they destroyed all uplinks it's a smart squad.

Logi are prime targets, not just for scouts but everyone, because that can cripple a squad. A logi should never die to a shotgun in one hit so you're talking at least a second or 2.

I can understand one guy going down to a cloaked scout, which btw could just as easily be a sniper, but the whole squad? You have a really terrible squad who panics or are legally blind.

There is NOTHING wrong with logis, they are actually fairly balanced just cloaked shots need to go. Assaults on the other hand definitely need some help.

Lol the Logis were nerfed... "as good as they always were", no GTFO, you do not know what you are talking about.

Correction: the problem is that assaults are no longer OP and the people who used them realized that they suck.

It's the Assault suits. They suck. Heavies are the best they've ever been, Logi's are as good as they've been for months and Scouts are as good as ever. Though, Assault's are bad. Or maybe bad isn't the right word. Assault suits lack a reason to to be used.

Want to be an unstoppable killing machine and kill entire rooms while taking Forge gun salvos to the face? Use a Heavy.

Want to be sneaky, fast and play well solo? Then use a Scout.

Want to help everybody be the best they can be, while raking in the ISK? Use a Logi.

??? - Assault suit?

The Assault suit lacks a real reason to use. Heck even the commando is good for sniping, the laser rifle, plasma cannon and MD. The Assault suit, there's never a reason to skill into one.

I think a 100-150 HP buff to main tank, 50-75 HP buff on secondary tank, and swapping the logi module layout for the assault layout would fix most of the problems with the assault.

On the HP front, it means that they have a clear advantage over scouts, so reduces some of the over lap, without running over into heavy territory.

On the slots front, I've never understood why logi's have the most versatility in equipment fitting, along with the most versatility in module fitting. Their slot layout is clear and away better than the assault, and even before 1.8 the was little reason to run an assault suit over the logi. Now the problem is exacerbated, as there's a reason to run something other than a medium suit, and Assaults are still worse than logi's.

Assault should be the most versatile of all suits when it comes to modules. They they've got something to bring to the table.

It's the Assault suits. They suck. Heavies are the best they've ever been, Logi's are as good as they've been for months and Scouts are as good as ever. Though, Assault's are bad. Or maybe bad isn't the right word. Assault suits lack a reason to to be used.

Want to be an unstoppable killing machine and kill entire rooms while taking Forge gun salvos to the face? Use a Heavy.

Want to be sneaky, fast and play well solo? Then use a Scout.

Want to help everybody be the best they can be, while raking in the ISK? Use a Logi.

??? - Assault suit?

The Assault suit lacks a real reason to use. Heck even the commando is good for sniping, the laser rifle, plasma cannon and MD. The Assault suit, there's never a reason to skill into one.