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Funkmaster Whale
Ancient Exiles.
1768
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Posted - 2014.04.10 07:01:00 -
[1] - Quote
So one of the apparently unique features of this game that CCP likes to tout is the ability to drop orbitals. I remember seeing them back in Chromosome and was in awe whenever I got to glimpse one drop in a game.
This has all changed. Orbital strikes are so common now that it's not unheard of to see a dozen or more OBs dropped between both sides in a game. As squad leader, it's easy to forget you have a handful of IWIN buttons sitting in your pocket as the game goes on.
CCP originally set the 2500 WP requirement when squads were capped at 4 members and there were way less opportunities for getting WP. Since them they've added all sorts of WP bonuses to various things including scanning, destroying equipment, transport, and now vehicle damage.
Considering the latest patch, vehicle users are now accruing absurd amounts of points for destroying other vehicles. Lets face it, the most common way you'll see a tank die is usually to another tank. With the latest addition of vehicle damage, killing a tank now awards around 350 WP (75 + 75 + 150 + 50) if you get the kill. An LAV is usually about 240 WP, and a dropship about 150.
Nowadays I start a game by dropping a rail tank and driving around killing all the turrets as well as any enemy vehicles that get initially called in. Ill usually have 1000+ WP in a few minutes. On average ill get around 2000-3000 WP just solo with upwards of 5000 in some games.
When running with a squad it's not unheard of to get between 3 to 6 OBs in a game, sometimes more. That's just one squad. The WP req. easily needs to be doubled to 5,000 for a squad. Make them more rewarding for squads that earn them. The battlefield has become so saturated with OBs that it's become more of a gimmick than a gameplay element. What used to be awe-inspiring is now just extremely annoying, especially when you consider how bad OBs exacerbate pubstomping.
Let me play you the song of my people!
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Taeryn Frost
Zumari Force Projection
Caldari State
223
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Posted - 2014.04.10 07:05:00 -
[2] - Quote
This seems reasonable.
In Ambush at least, its rare that anyone using an orbital actually needs it since its already probably a lopsided match. |
Arkena Wyrnspire
Fatal Absolution
12211
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Posted - 2014.04.10 07:08:00 -
[3] - Quote
When squad size limits were increased from 4 to 6, it was obvious that this would be a problem.
Then more ways to earn WP were introduced.
Orbitals are 'cheap' now, I'd say. I'm not really sure what the purpose is. To exacerbate pubstomping? I can understand it in FW - where you have a more interesting mechanic that isn't really linked to your success.
When you have a mechanic like this that rewards you further for success it simply makes it a tool for more landslide victories. I'd like to see orbitals as a gamechanger rather than a cheap reward for already winning.
You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake.
EUrobro
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Kitt 514
True North.
152
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Posted - 2014.04.10 07:09:00 -
[4] - Quote
I'm of the opinion that a 4 man squad should get ONE orbital MOST games, so agreed I guess.
Every update when they add wp bonuses though, I thought the same, that there would just be more orbitals. |
Funkmaster Whale
Ancient Exiles.
1768
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Posted - 2014.04.10 07:11:00 -
[5] - Quote
Taeryn Frost wrote:This seems reasonable.
In Ambush at least, its rare that anyone using an orbital actually needs it since its already probably a lopsided match.
Honestly OBs in Ambush are a terrible idea. All it does is give the side that's facerolling the other team a free team wipe if placed right.
I've seen 10+ kill OBs from good placement right after a team was wiped from one location and started all spawning elsewhere only to get wiped out again by an OB.
Speaking as someone who regularly pubstomps in Ambush, this is incredibly unfair considering how easy it is now to get 2500 WP in a competent squad.
Let me play you the song of my people!
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Vicious Minotaur
Tronhadar Free Guard
Minmatar Republic
768
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Posted - 2014.04.10 07:19:00 -
[6] - Quote
I'd say the entire orbital mechanics need to be redone.
Orbitals are a reward that rewards you on top of your reward, and brings you one step closer to yet another reward. And never mind that that this reward is on top of doing well, which is a reward in and of itself.
So ultimately, this game rewards you, gives you a reward on top of the initial reward, and THAT reward rewards you further with another reward that then brings you closer to yet another reward. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
5075
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Posted - 2014.04.10 07:44:00 -
[7] - Quote
Reworking orbital mechanics would be nice in a future update. If implemented WELL, I think the current orbital mechanics are ok for now though.
But as OP says, they're happening too often.
When we had 4 players and more limited ways to earn WP, it was fine. Now it's starting to get a bit sill with 6 man squads and lots of fast rewards. I LIKE the lots of fast rewards and 6 man squads, though, so bumping up the WP cost is a sensible measure. Doubling would be easily within reason to expect a full squad to aim for. Unfortunately, that would penalise smaller squads though. Think how many new or moderately experienced players run in 2 - 4 player squads and will get stomped more easily because they have less access to a powerful tide-changing tool while the 6-man squads are still able to pull them out multiple times in every game?
What about having a WP requirement that's based on the number of squad members? Like you could have a base of 2000 WP, with an extra 500 WP required for each player in the squad. This would encourage teamwork and larger squads being formed, because each person would need to contribute less in order to earn the Orbital, but skilled players who regularly solo 2500+ could still run solo and earn orbitals. The specific numbers would need to be balanced pretty carefully, but it's just a thought. You want the solo orbital to be in reach of a skilled enough player, but at the same time, you want squads to be able to earn more of them to encourage players - even the good ones - to work with teammates. |
Sourdough Muffins
Royal Uhlans
Amarr Empire
71
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Posted - 2014.04.10 07:49:00 -
[8] - Quote
Should be completely removed in PUB matches. Keep them in FW and PC, but ffs get them out of pubs. |
Obodiah Garro
Tech Guard
RISE of LEGION
848
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Posted - 2014.04.10 08:21:00 -
[9] - Quote
I disagree, the orbitals gained in pubs from WP are kind of worthless, at best they can clear out an exposed area of infantry but they are easily avoided and ineffectual against HAV.
If anything CCP should be giving out more off field support options, there are 2 MCC in close proximity firing on each other, I would like to think they arent being deployed to a small battlefield solely with 16 mercs as defence.
Nemo me impune lacessit
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The-Beard
Dorsai Chaotix
152
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Posted - 2014.04.10 08:33:00 -
[10] - Quote
I wonder why a proto-stomper/ tanker wants to reduce the amount of OB's? Hmmm... |
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bogeyman m
Krusual Covert Operators
Minmatar Republic
167
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Posted - 2014.04.10 09:39:00 -
[11] - Quote
I generally agree with the OP.
Alternatively, why not just go back to 4 person squads in Pub Matches?
Duct tape 2.0 > Have WD-40; will travel.
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Justicar Karnellia
Ikomari-Onu Enforcement
Caldari State
792
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Posted - 2014.04.10 09:55:00 -
[12] - Quote
I agree. I actually play almost exclusively solo and have it as a personal goal to get an orbital .... I can get this done once in a while and it' a great achievement on your won. If I have a 2nd person in my squad I can get an orbital almost every match. With a 3rd person you get it quite quickly... again.. .with six people squads, you're getting bucketloads and of course they just pile heaps more pain onto an already frustrating game.
They need to change the requirements ... or even just remove them from public matches entirely until they come up with an alternative solution.... they also need to prevent them being launched over the redline... If your team has just redlined an opposing team, then chances are you don't need an orbital to help you achieve victory, and you definitely don't need to launch it into their redline while they are regrouping (which is what the redline's original purpose is for) |
ZDub 303
TeamPlayers
Dirt Nap Squad.
2445
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Posted - 2014.04.10 10:23:00 -
[13] - Quote
I would support an increase of WP reqs to 4000 or so until they can rework the system. Still fairly easy to get 1 but harder to get 6 in a game. |
Luna Angelo
We Who Walk Alone
1005
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Posted - 2014.04.10 10:40:00 -
[14] - Quote
I agree with this.
Raising the requirements to 5K, though, would not halve the number of orbitals, it would cut back on them by about 70% or so.
I don't need luck, I have a cloak.
Wolves don't lose sleep over the opinion of sheep.
CEO of We Who Walk Alone
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Spirax Sarco
Sniper Research Lab
32
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Posted - 2014.04.10 11:37:00 -
[15] - Quote
then wouldn't there be more tankers on the field ?
more Logi's...but more tanks...
C.R.E.A.M.
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Leonid Tybalt
Inner.Hell
453
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Posted - 2014.04.10 11:44:00 -
[16] - Quote
Sourdough Muffins wrote:Should be completely removed in PUB matches. Keep them in FW and PC, but ffs get them out of pubs.
Where's the dislike button when you need one?
If you don't like the enemy getting OB's all the time, then stop getting killed by them so ******* much... |
Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
Dirt Nap Squad.
8212
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Posted - 2014.04.10 12:00:00 -
[17] - Quote
I said it would be a problem nearly, 9? 10? months ago.
CCP ignored it, and it's now an even bigger problem.
That's what you get for not listening to the wisdom of the holy Cat Merc.
My intentions is to have a fun game for everyone.
If I seem to be biased, I have good hard data to back it up.
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Atiim
Living Like Larry Schwag
6519
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Posted - 2014.04.10 12:05:00 -
[18] - Quote
The-Beard wrote:I wonder why a proto-stomper/ tanker wants to reduce the amount of OB's? Hmmm...
You know a tank can survive Warbarge Strikes right?
#LivingLikeLarry
[s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through
-HAND
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Arkena Wyrnspire
Fatal Absolution
12225
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Posted - 2014.04.10 16:48:00 -
[19] - Quote
The-Beard wrote:I wonder why a proto-stomper/ tanker wants to reduce the amount of OB's? Hmmm...
It's blatantly obvious that this would nerf said proto-stomper/tanker much more than the people they're stomping (as people they're stomping tend to get very few, if any).
Also, Funkmaster has been an outspoken opponent of Tank514 - your assumption only makes you look ignorant.
You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake.
EUrobro
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Awry Barux
Ametat Security
Amarr Empire
1748
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Posted - 2014.04.10 17:28:00 -
[20] - Quote
Aww, but I like earning solo OBs in 75% of Dom matches...
(No I totally agree, earning OBs is way too easy, raise the WP needed)
Nerdier than thou
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stlcarlos989
SVER True Blood
General Tso's Alliance
1279
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Posted - 2014.04.10 17:33:00 -
[21] - Quote
+1
5000WP is much more balanced
STB Director, #1 in Warpoints E3 Closed Beta Build, Water Pipe Aficionado, Cannabis Sativa Connoisseur
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Boot Booter
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
425
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Posted - 2014.04.10 17:34:00 -
[22] - Quote
I agree they are far too easy to get at the moment. But instead of raising the amount of WP you need they should add more variety of orbital bombardments. I've heard of laser strikes and missile stuff.. Anyway what I'm getting at is you try to save up WP during match to unlock better orbitals. This will promote wise use of orbital strikes rather than dropping them as fast as you get them. |
Chunky Munkey
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
3838
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Posted - 2014.04.10 17:35:00 -
[23] - Quote
These days it's just a tool for people to pad their K/D.
No.
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Vespasian Andendare
Subsonic Synthesis
RISE of LEGION
837
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Posted - 2014.04.10 18:34:00 -
[24] - Quote
They need to increase the difficulty of gaining them and more importantly, make them cost isk!
>> Play Dust 514 FREE! Sign up for exclusive gear today! <<
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Funkmaster Whale
Ancient Exiles.
1796
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Posted - 2014.04.10 20:03:00 -
[25] - Quote
The-Beard wrote:I wonder why a proto-stomper/ tanker wants to reduce the amount of OB's? Hmmm...
Because they're too easy to get?
Because they require very little skill for very high reward?
And besides, I'm not a "tanker". I do have HAVs and advanced turrets specced, but only because Rail Tanks are single-handedly the cheapest, easiest, and most effective way to kill enemy tanks. As long as you get the jump, it's pretty much a guaranteed kill. No reason to struggle with infantry AV and its weak DPS when a tank can be dropped anywhere at anytime. Drop tank, kill enemy tank, +350 WP, recall, and go about the rest of my day.
That's not the point here though, and I don't see how making OBs tougher to earn would aid tankers or protostompers in any way.
Let me play you the song of my people!
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Johnny Guilt
Algintal Core
642
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Posted - 2014.04.10 20:18:00 -
[26] - Quote
it's Cod predator missle 10x, what did you expcet?
A strange game.
The only winning move is
not to play.
GalHeav E-vo
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Smooth Assassin
Stardust Incorporation
IMMORTAL REGIME
1190
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Posted - 2014.04.10 20:29:00 -
[27] - Quote
The only thing i hate about orbitals is that it ruins the battle, i'm sure everyone will agree that it is pretty hard to see a 16 vs 16 battle in one specific location apart from ambush (domination is usually half the team is usually capturing CRUs and supply depots away from the objective), but when it does happen, the battle is so insane and amazing in all perspectives. Then an orbital drops down and ruins so much of something glorious. Now, the team whos got most orbitals is highly likely to wins.
Assassination is my thing.
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bogeyman m
Krusual Covert Operators
Minmatar Republic
186
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Posted - 2014.05.17 22:32:00 -
[28] - Quote
Why should kill/points from one OB help fund the next OB?
Duct tape 2.0 > Have WD-40; will travel.
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xXcythe
Dust OMEGA corp
United Brotherhood Alliance
6
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Posted - 2014.05.18 01:00:00 -
[29] - Quote
Dont kno if this has been said but......for those of us who dont run tanks or any vehicles orbitals arent that easy to come by. Truthfully I lone wolf 90% of the time (1.58 kdr) when I do squad, orbitals are a given but not every squad has a logi or vehicle farming warpoints. Most of my orbitals are hard earned. But I am a caldari assaulter so ....hey........tell u what, no tank, no ads, no heavy suit, no logi role,................ go get a orbital. |
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui
The Honor of the Fallen Biomassed.
752
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Posted - 2014.05.18 15:37:00 -
[30] - Quote
Sourdough Muffins wrote:Should be completely removed in PUB matches. Keep them in FW and PC, but ffs get them out of pubs.
Agreed by myself .
They serve no purpose in a pub match or a domination as well as ambush .
Keep them in FW and PC's .
Stop Tact Striking and come and get this Null Cannon with your GUNS you scrubs .
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