How are they balanced? The CR seems better in every aspect the CR has more range but it is also great at close range. The CR also has higher dps than AR. CR has better damage profile. So my question is when is the AR better than the CR?

April 6th:
97.894 Combat Rifles
125.329 Assault Rifles

Not saying either is better, but the players in general are so far preferring the Assault Rifle 1.28:1

How are they balanced? The CR seems better in every aspect the CR has more range but it is also great at close range. The CR also has higher dps than AR. CR has better damage profile. So my question is when is the AR better than the CR?

Prof IV into AR, optimization III, rapid reload to IV, sharpshooter to IV, Gallente assault bonus, result?

CR + prof II and nothing else is still better than my AR.

I think ccp makes the old weapons obsolute on purpose so people will buy boosters to skill into the new weapons faster.

I use the GEK and Duvolle quite effectively on my Amarr Scouts. The only time I really start to run into problems is when I run into heavy frames that have a TON of armor stacked on them, other than that, the AR still shreds suits quite nicely.

I have prof 5, sharpshooter 5, reload and ammo at 3. So much wasted sp :(

Ack, fine, I officially state I shall spec into the demon AR I haven't touched in a year now. There, one person will now use the thing, can we just agree it is still missing something. JK, I wouldn't do that, I swore it off so long ago, can't use it now. I will keep that single gun at level 1 while everything else is close to Proto (even the PLC). With the 3x cap next week, may just go ahead and finish off all the remaining LWs, HWs, and SAs, though my fitting screen will become really difficult then...

Though, I feel that you are right, the AR clip always lasted longer (from my recollection) in terms of clip longevity. I burn thru a CR clip in no time flat, never felt that way with the AR. Is that a positive, no clue. All I know is, I'm still killed by ARs quite often, more than any other Rifle variant (probably because everyone and their mom specced them to the max early on).

CR is handicapped by button mashing, physically throwing off your aim (unless you're a turbo cheater). AR has full auto.

How are they balanced? The CR seems better in every aspect the CR has more range but it is also great at close range. The CR also has higher dps than AR. CR has better damage profile. So my question is when is the AR better than the CR?

CR is handicapped by button mashing, physically throwing off your aim (unless you're a turbo cheater). AR has full auto.

For background, I think it is necessary that everyone understands what is meant by type, & CCP's plan for the racial "assault rifles" before moving forward. This is a quote from CCP Remnant on what rifle types and variants.

"The idea being that each race will have it's base variant be Assault (Gallente), Burst (Minmatar), Breach (Caldari) or Tactical (Amarr) and then the variants are a specific race's take on the others using their own tech. So, you'd get an Assault Rail Rifle that attempts to somewhat mimic the behavior of the Gallente Assault Rifle and a Tactical Assault Rifle that attempts to mimic the Amarr Scrambler Rifle and so on."

It is also important to know the ranges of weapons of different damage profiles. Can be found here, from 1.7 weapon dev blog.

Assault type
AR (hybrid-plasma damage profile: short range)
Assault SCR (laser damage profile: medium to long range)
Assault RR (hybrid-railgun damage profile: long range)
Assault CR (projectile damage profile: short-medium range)

Tactical type
SCR (laser: medium to long range)
Tactical AR (hybrid-plasma: short range)
*Future tactical variants for RR (hybrid-railgun: long range)
*Future tactical variants for CR (projectile: short-medium range)

Burst type
CR (projectile: short-medium range)
Burst AR (hybrid-plasma: short range)
*Future burst variants for RR (hybrid-railgun: long range)
*Future burst variants for SCR (laser: medium to long range)

Breach type
RR (hybrid-railgun: long range)
Breach AR (hybrid-plasma: short range)
*Future breach variants for SCR (laser: medium to long range)
*Future breach variants for CR (projectile: short-medium range)



[Comparison]
So we have identified the types, & their comparative ranges (short to long, everything in between) within the type. Now lets compare the rifles by type using 1.8 stats. All stats prototype.

Assault
AR: 412.5 DPS, shortest range (45 optimal/78 effective)
aCR: 420, short-medium range (56/84)
aSCR: 420.59, medium-long range (56/90)
aRR: 400, longest range (75/102)

Tactical
tAR: 462 DPS (acheivable without modded controller), 69.3 damage per shot, restrictive ROF (you can tap R1 faster than it can shoot). Shortest range range (57/84)
SCR: 841.17 DPS (not acheivable without modded controller), 71.5 damage per shot, non-restricive ROF. Medium-long range (75/96)

Burst
buAR: 474.38 DPS, shortest range (50/78)
CR: 594 DPS, short-medium range (67/84)

Breach
brAR: 330, shortest range (46/78)
RR: 397.69, longest range (75/102)



[Conclusion]

The assault SCR is OP compared to the AR; has both more DPS, on top of more range. Perhaps if the aSCR had overheat play a bigger factor, it would be balanced.

The assault CR is OP compared to the AR; has both more DPS, on top of more range.

The assault RR does have less damage per second in exchange for range, but it gets 30 meters more optimal to deal full damage in exchange for only 12.5 less damage per second. The aRR gets the much better end of the deal. The spool-up time may be enough to balance things, but not clear at this point.

The tactical AR sucks compared to the SCR. SCR has more damage per shot, more rate of fire, way more range, the charge shot ability, better hipfire accuracy; unless you're really really bad at managing overheat, there is no reason to use the tac AR over the SCR.

The burst AR sucks compare to the CR. CR has more massively more DPS, & more range.

The breach AR sucks compared to the RR. Less range, less DPS, less magazine size, there's just no reason to ever use the breach AR.

While not of the same type, the AR & RR are comparable because they are both automatic. The AR has about 14 points more damage per second, but the RR gets 30 meters more optimal range to do full damage in. While it is a tradeoff, it seems far from equitable; the RR gets the better end of that deal. The spool-up time may be enough to balance things, but not clear at this point.

All weapons of the AR family pretty much suck.



[Solutions]
Rifles need to be balanced against others of the same type: the tac AR balanced against the SCR, or assault CR against the AR, etc.

The main thing is the DPS vs range is not something CCP seems to actively think of as a tradeoff for weapons. Generally (meaning not always, yes there are other factors) If a weapon has more DPS than another of the same type, it should have less range; likewise, if a weapon has less ...

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Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+

Don't worry there's already been talks from devs about the CR getting a nerf. Which means if you're using one you should worry :) I'm still loyal to my RR but would like to be able to run my BPO AR again at some point in time.

The assault rifle is better against shields. I really don't know why the OP didn't think of it something as simple as that.

How are they balanced? The CR seems better in every aspect the CR has more range but it is also great at close range. The CR also has higher dps than AR. CR has better damage profile. So my question is when is the AR better than the CR?

I think ccp makes the old weapons obsolute on purpose so people will buy boosters to skill into the new weapons faster.

According to your own site, for the last 10 days it's 349,540 CRs vs 157,467 ARs, with players in general preferring the CR 2.22:1
Is April 6th an anomaly or are we looking at different data?

What is this, kills per weapon? Also, where did you obtain this info?

April 6th:
97.894 Combat Rifles
125.329 Assault Rifles

Not saying either is better, but the players in general are so far preferring the Assault Rifle 1.28:1

Arkena, if you're looking at The TryhardinatorGäó, please be aware that it excludes MLT gear, while the numbers above include MLT. Sorry for the confusion, but otherwise The TryhardinatorGäó would constantly be suggesting people run in Milita fits :)

But... there is no militia CR.
This immediately skews the comparison. Why not compare tiers that we have for both weapons?