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InsidiousN
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
217
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Posted - 2014.04.08 15:51:00 -
[1] - Quote
I'll just put this here and hope CCP finally starts to understand: Study Reveals Real Reason Behind Gaming Aggression |
BL4CKST4R
WarRavens League of Infamy
2427
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Posted - 2014.04.08 16:02:00 -
[2] - Quote
They forgot one variable. How much is the game developer going to screw you over.
For the Federation!
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Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
5052
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Posted - 2014.04.08 16:14:00 -
[3] - Quote
So what you're saying is that we need:
1. Improved new player experience (NPE), 2. PROPER control remapping (for all controller options), and 3. Improved responsiveness and feedback from the game.
Am I missing something? |
Jadd Hatchen
The Phoenix Federation
435
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Posted - 2014.04.08 16:17:00 -
[4] - Quote
I totally agree. The only times that I find myself cussing or swearing at the game is when the STUPID F U CKING INTERFACE DOESN'T WORK! Seriously, CCP devs I keep harping on this crap to you guys over and over and over and you do noting for it because in your prioritization scheme they are "little things". I'm here to tell you that those little things are paper cutting youur game to death!
WAKE THE F UP CCP! Learn to design for a real life human to machine interface like any other successful company does in any industry if they expect to actually survive!
- The rotary menu for equipment selection IS THE WORST IN HISORY!
- The putsh to talk gets disabled when you are dead, on a chat window, or doing anything!
- Random spawning is NEVER RANDOM.
- You cannot zoom in on the orbital strike map!
- Hit detection is fubar'd AGAIN!
- Swapping weapons will cause the point of aim to be screwed up for the first few seconds.
- And more as I'm sure there is a more comprehensive list elsewhere, but these are just a few of the things I can think of off the top of my head while writing this...
Hell I'll repost a challenge I issued to you guys elsewhere. Here it is again so I can prove how stupid it is:
Quote:Ok, since it was brought up here, I would like to make a challenge to all the devs that play this game.
YOU HEAR ME DEVS, THIS CHALLENGE IS FOR YOU!!!
1 - Create a logistics dropsuit that has at least 2+ equipment slots, but the more the better. 2 - Fill every equipment slot with something different. 3 - Enter a game. 4 - Ready equipment item #1. 5 - Ready equipment item #2. 6 - Repeat steps 4 and 5 over and over as fast as you can while running A STRAIGHT LINE at the same time!
Can't do it can you!
This is one of the most frustrating things about this stupid f*cking rotary menu interface bullsh*t that you guys keep fausting upon your players! Stop the abuse of Human to Machine Interface Design!
Seriously! you already have a button to swap between weapons in the interface, so why duplicate that sh*t on the rotary menu? So if you REMOVE the heavy, light, and sidearm weapons from the rotary menu, then you free up all that space! Similarly for the grenades carried. No need to have them on there as you have a button specifically allocated for them already! So all that's left to go onto the rotary EQUIPMENT menu is the EQUIPMENT! Since the most equipment someone might carry is like four items, this is easily put onto the menu as each item is at one full quarter of the rotary EQUIPMENT menu! So first item at 12 o'clock, second at 3 o'clock, third at 6 o'clock, and fourth at 9 o'clock.
DUN! Seriously freaking easy fix to an interface nightmare that has plagued this game since beta!
I hope someone out there in dev land really reads this. 8(
You are increasing the overall aggression level of the world, not because of the violence in the game, but due to the FRUSTRATION YOU ARE CAUSING with the broken things in this game. Go back to school and learn to design interfaces that actually work!
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Jenza's Pants
The Hetairoi
151
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Posted - 2014.04.08 16:19:00 -
[5] - Quote
study did not recognize the frequent nerf and buff cycle. bad science. |
Lv2spd2
Slow And Old
275
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Posted - 2014.04.08 16:22:00 -
[6] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote: Am I missing something?
You are missing:
More modes for more opportunities to feel "good" at the game.
Also better balance so that someone competently playing ANY role can feel "good" at the game.
At least if you beleive the research from that article, and it rings true to me.
There are probably a lot of other things I'm missing too, but others will be along to list them soon.
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Anarchide
Greedy Bastards
1984
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Posted - 2014.04.08 16:23:00 -
[7] - Quote
Maybe this game is better suited to you. Give it a try! It's totally balanced.
My alts: General John Ripper, Draxus Prime, MoonEagle A, Cat Merc, Long Evity, DeadlyAztec11 and Sinboto Simmons.
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Lv2spd2
Slow And Old
275
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Posted - 2014.04.08 16:27:00 -
[8] - Quote
Anarchide wrote:Maybe this game is better suited to you. Give it a try! It's totally balanced.
I dunno, whatever was making those ripples in the water seemed kinda OP...
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Summ Dude
Direct Action Resources
348
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Posted - 2014.04.08 16:28:00 -
[9] - Quote
This article looks like something that would've come out 10 years ago. I don't believe any semi-educated people are still propagating the rumor that violent video games cause violent video games. Why the hell is IGN even writing this ****? Also, people get more mad at games when they don't function properly? [cue world's longest "derp"]
Not just a laymen, but the laymen.
Winn Summ and lose Summ.
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Azri Sarum
BurgezzE.T.F General Tso's Alliance
307
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Posted - 2014.04.08 16:29:00 -
[10] - Quote
The tldr from the article
Quote: If the structure of a game or the design of the controls thwarts enjoyment, it is this, not the violent content, that seems to drive feelings of aggression.
Garrett Blacknova wrote:So what you're saying is that we need:
1. Improved new player experience (NPE), 2. PROPER control remapping (for all controller options), and 3. Improved responsiveness and feedback from the game.
Am I missing something?
Perhaps just interpreting it to literally. Structure (a bit on the vague side) could mean everything from the match structure causing vets to proto-stomp, to how dropsuits are structured (tier complexity). Design of the controls could include tachnet design/information, dropship flight characteristics, equipment selector, ect, beyond just the actual controller layout.
Thanks for linking the article InsidiousN, interesting read.
EVE - Victor Maximus
DUST - Azri Sarum
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boba's fetta
Dead Man's Game
514
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Posted - 2014.04.08 16:43:00 -
[11] - Quote
what makes you think that ccp dont already know this. and they could just be carrying on because they are sadistic (may have the wrong word feel free to correct me and tell me why its the wrong word always want to learn more.)
skills are not being applied till 30 secs after spawn fixes before nerfs thank you.
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Aramis Madrigal
SVER True Blood General Tso's Alliance
210
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Posted - 2014.04.08 16:57:00 -
[12] - Quote
This fits with a large body of literature citing lack of efficacy/control being a strong driver of anxiety, depression and aggression. In contrast, difficult but "fair" games are well liked (see link below...not a scholarly article, but fun reading anyway.)
Cheers,
-Aramis
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/17/arts/video-games/failure-in-video-games-has-a-sweet-addictive-allure.html?_r=0 |
TechMechMeds
SWAMPERIUM
2992
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Posted - 2014.04.08 17:15:00 -
[13] - Quote
That study could have been as simple as interviewing a bunch of older gamers, ones like myself who could simply explain the varying levels of frustration in games rather than the frozen caveman approach which usually end with generalised assumptions by people who don't have any proper experience with what they are studying anyway.
The real frustration is down to what you get out of the effort you put into a game, dust is unreasonable in that manner and doesn't reward time put into the game and in many respects the updates make time more wasted with nerfs. There is also the fact that in dust, you grind hard for nothing, no new game modes, nothing. There's planetary conquest that masquerades as something amazing but again, its just skirmish with very costly and time consuming mechanics that in the end, may or may not grant you bragging rights in the war room, oh joy.
The same thing happened in wow with the introduction of that lame panda sht, that's when me and hundreds, possibly thousands of players quit. Every new expansion meant another long and pointless grind just to get all the PvP gear and gems. For pve ers, new expansions are new content, for pvpers who also ran arena teams, it was nothing more than a pain in the arse grind to get back on form so again, it came down to what you get out of the time you spend and again, it was nothing.
Games that require you the player to put in large amounts of time get frustrating and quite frankly a joke if you get nothing back in return. Take chess for instance, you get nothing at all BUT you don't have to do much so its great. Now look at dust, its expected of us to grind hard for gear but there's nothing to really do or apply it to, the game is unreasonable and I find it insulting and disgusting the way new players have to grind for nothing yet they are fed lies of how great it will be and how new and great planetary jokefest is.
While admittedly younger players whine because they are sht usually and ulterior motives for how the game should be plague them, I believe for older players, generally we want something out of time spent in game, dust most certainly takes a dump on you the longer you have been here, constant changes, nerfs, buffs, newbs who think they know what they are talking about when they don't are listened to etc. I'd personally like it so you can't even post on the forums unless you'd have played for a few months at least.
That also ties in with how its simply not fair that newer or younger players are given the same respect as vets and/or older players. This leaves vets very frustrated, I don't need to go into how teenagers are, even the ones that profess how different they are to the others. Every teenager says that lol. I have to say that its my corp mates who keep me here, not the game.
Tldr - time spent in games needs to be matched by content and quality or they become unreasonable and thus, people get frustrated. Especially by undelivered potential and content. Older /dedicated players need to be treated with a bit more respect than any old newb/14 year old. Would a 14 year old respect a foetus? Certainly not..................learn your place foetuses lol.
If you know what a telefrag match is, then I love you.
Dust for over a year, gaming for over 18 and counting.
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steadyhand amarr
TeamPlayers Dirt Nap Squad.
2802
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Posted - 2014.04.08 17:24:00 -
[14] - Quote
Science proving common knowledge :-P. Sad we need studies to ram this point home
"i dont care about you or your goals, just show me the dam isk"
winner of EU squad cup
GOGO power rangers
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TechMechMeds
SWAMPERIUM
2992
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Posted - 2014.04.08 17:26:00 -
[15] - Quote
steadyhand amarr wrote:Science proving common knowledge :-P. Sad we need studies to ram this point home
Its sad that a study was even carried out lol. We may as well disregard experience and knowledge and hold studies for every special case question that springs to mind lol.
If you know what a telefrag match is, then I love you.
Dust for over a year, gaming for over 18 and counting.
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Vrain Matari
Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic
1936
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Posted - 2014.04.08 17:34:00 -
[16] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:So what you're saying is that we need:
1. Improved new player experience (NPE), 2. PROPER control remapping (for all controller options), and 3. Improved responsiveness and feedback from the game.
Am I missing something? You are not missing anything.
CCP on the other hand has failed wildly on all points.
I support SP rollover.
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R F Gyro
Clones 4u
1255
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Posted - 2014.04.08 17:47:00 -
[17] - Quote
While CCP are clearly not blameless, and the game can obviously be improved massively in many ways, the bulk of the aggression on these forums probably stems from a few basic facts:-
1. We are all effectively anonymous; our behaviour here doesn't reflect back on us in real life at all 2. We are mainly a bunch of nerds with little in the way of social skills (or we'd be out socialising, not playing games) 3. CCP have managed to get many of us to really care about the game
If we were sitting in a room with the devs most of us would be using very different language. If we were talking about the quality of the play we were rehearsing we'd be talking very differently. If we didn't care about this (free) game we'd simply stop playing it.
RF Gyro: 12.5% damage bonus; 10.5% rate of fire bonus
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Himiko Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution Dirt Nap Squad.
3423
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Posted - 2014.04.08 17:49:00 -
[18] - Quote
So basically, garbage game design makes players angry and wish harm upon the developers.
I never could have pieced this together on my own. Good thing we have scientists working round the clock to solve these mysteries. |
InsidiousN
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
220
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Posted - 2014.04.08 17:49:00 -
[19] - Quote
R F Gyro wrote:While CCP are clearly not blameless, and the game can obviously be improved massively in many ways, the bulk of the aggression on these forums probably stems from a few basic facts:-
1. We are all effectively anonymous; our behaviour here doesn't reflect back on us in real life at all 2. We are mainly a bunch of nerds with little in the way of social skills (or we'd be out socialising, not playing games) 3. CCP have managed to get many of us to really care about the game
If we were sitting in a room with the devs most of us would be using very different language. If we were talking about the quality of the play we were rehearsing we'd be talking very differently. If we didn't care about this (free) game we'd simply stop playing it.
Did you read the article? |
TrueXer0
DUST University Ivy League
8
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Posted - 2014.04.08 17:56:00 -
[20] - Quote
R F Gyro wrote:While CCP are clearly not blameless, and the game can obviously be improved massively in many ways, the bulk of the aggression on these forums probably stems from a few basic facts:-
1. We are all effectively anonymous; our behaviour here doesn't reflect back on us in real life at all 2. We are mainly a bunch of nerds with little in the way of social skills (or we'd be out socialising, not playing games) 3. CCP have managed to get many of us to really care about the game
If we were sitting in a room with the devs most of us would be using very different language. If we were talking about the quality of the play we were rehearsing we'd be talking very differently. If we didn't care about this (free) game we'd simply stop playing it.
I am pretty sure my words would be a lot harsher if I was in a room full of Devs. The filter on my thoughts is easier put in place while typing out statements. The following is my thoughts, censored by CCP because it might just have hit a little too close and might just cause the community to stand up to fight for what they deserve.
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2020834#post2020834 |
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VALCORE72
NECROM0NGERS Caps and Mercs
121
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Posted - 2014.04.08 18:28:00 -
[21] - Quote
ccp has to understand we know this is a free game ......but!!!!!! this has the spark to change games for ever . we want this game to move forward ,to feel like we are heard , want to spend real money on it , to make us log on and go ok want do i need to work on today . man ive played for 11 months now , there was a time i was putn in 16 hr days on here only ran boosters for 4 months . racked up 74000 kills and 30 mill sp . i still want this game to move faster then snail sh,it |
Jack Kittinger
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
209
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Posted - 2014.04.08 18:55:00 -
[22] - Quote
Summ Dude wrote:This article looks like something that would've come out 10 years ago. I don't believe any semi-educated* people are still propagating the rumor that violent video games cause violent video games**.
*allow me to misquote louis c k: think of the average stupid person, now multiply that by ten, that's how stupid people can be and actually are. Don't ever think there will be a time where there are no rumors and let alone a time when no people will use video games as a scapegoat for awful sh|T somebody barely even exposed to video games did
** wait... whu?
That's a good read, but generalization is never good
When it comes to those little things and getting them tweaked DUST is more of a case of people shouting at the driver to stop driving in the wrong direction, and the driver having his head so far up his * cannot listen to the simplest suggestion.
We get mad because it's obvious. We get mad because we expect better things from them.
Proud winner of the 'Templar BPO Raffle' by Castor Crave!!
Lucky Number 29
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Maximos Forcus
G.R.A.V.E INTERGALACTIC WARPIGS
3
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Posted - 2014.04.08 19:28:00 -
[23] - Quote
TechMechMeds wrote:Games that require you the player to put in large amounts of time get frustrating and quite frankly a joke if you get nothing back in return. Take chess for instance, you get nothing at all BUT you don't have to do much so its great
Not much of a chess player, I gather. To be really good at THAT game, you will need to invest about 8 to 20 years, playing, reading and analyzing. it is a bigger "grind" for "nothing" than anything you've applied yourself to, I'm sure.
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Rich o
United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION
188
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Posted - 2014.04.08 19:29:00 -
[24] - Quote
steadyhand amarr wrote:Science proving common knowledge :-P. Sad we need studies to ram this point home
A few hundred years ago "common sense" told us that the earth is a plate. Some sciences (like sociology vor psychology) use methodological technices just to prove or falsify "common sense". Just because someone thinks that something is true because they think so doesn't mean that it's true for everyone.
Regarding this study: 300 people is a rather low sample and not really representative.
2nd place in EU Squad Cup
Master Shinobi
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Anarchide
Greedy Bastards
1984
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Posted - 2014.04.08 20:20:00 -
[25] - Quote
I'll leave this here.
My alts: General John Ripper, Draxus Prime, MoonEagle A, Cat Merc, Long Evity, DeadlyAztec11 and Sinboto Simmons.
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R F Gyro
Clones 4u
1257
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Posted - 2014.04.09 11:50:00 -
[26] - Quote
InsidiousN wrote:Did you read the article? Yep, of course I read it. I've also read (most of) the study.
The study is about the source of aggression in gamers, in an attempt to determine whether aggression in game players is linked to aggression in the game content.
Neither the article nor the study says anything at all about the behaviour of gamers, on game forums or anywhere else. They don't (as far as I'm aware) discuss how any aggression triggered by the games manifests itself.
I am not in any way disputing what is written in the study or article. I'm not saying that a better game experience won't reduce levels of aggression in the player community.
What I am saying is that if we (as a community) attempt to use this to transfer responsibility for our own behaviour onto CCP ("its your fault we're behaving like this") then we are probably deluding ourselves.
I suppose the counterpoint to that is that CCP shouldn't delude themselves that aggressive behaviour on the forums is due to aggressive content in the game.
RF Gyro: 12.5% damage bonus; 10.5% rate of fire bonus
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BASSMEANT
ZionTCD
311
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Posted - 2014.04.09 12:53:00 -
[27] - Quote
Told you it was because you guys sucked.
Now global news confirms what I was telling you nerds about yourselves long before beta even started.
And yet, some of you nerds still blame the game.
Peace B |
Beld Errmon
1580
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Posted - 2014.04.09 13:58:00 -
[28] - Quote
steadyhand amarr wrote:Science proving common knowledge :-P. Sad we need studies to ram this point home
I noticed in the comments a bunch of people saying the same thing, I find it deeply saddening that people who have the intelligence to breathe regard science and the pursuit of knowledge with such contempt, I was reading the comments on an article a few weeks back regarding some science related to the big bang, people actually said something along the lines of "why bother researching things like this when we can't even find a plane missing on earth!"
The real question that should be asked is why haven't scientist found away to stop stupid people from breeding and speaking.
Look at what you wouldn't have if scientists let small minded fools hold them back
Rise and rise again until lambs become lions.
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Vrain Matari
Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic
1942
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Posted - 2014.04.09 15:40:00 -
[29] - Quote
Maximos Forcus wrote:TechMechMeds wrote:Games that require you the player to put in large amounts of time get frustrating and quite frankly a joke if you get nothing back in return. Take chess for instance, you get nothing at all BUT you don't have to do much so its great Not much of a chess player, I gather. To be really good at THAT game, you will need to invest about 8 to 20 years, playing, reading and analyzing. it is a bigger "grind" for "nothing" than anything you've applied yourself to, I'm sure. Buuut.....it has a matchmaking system that works.
I support SP rollover.
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Maximos Forcus
G.R.A.V.E INTERGALACTIC WARPIGS
5
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Posted - 2014.04.09 15:47:00 -
[30] - Quote
Vrain Matari wrote:Maximos Forcus wrote:TechMechMeds wrote:Games that require you the player to put in large amounts of time get frustrating and quite frankly a joke if you get nothing back in return. Take chess for instance, you get nothing at all BUT you don't have to do much so its great Not much of a chess player, I gather. To be really good at THAT game, you will need to invest about 8 to 20 years, playing, reading and analyzing. it is a bigger "grind" for "nothing" than anything you've applied yourself to, I'm sure. Buuut.....it has a matchmaking system that works.
Made me laugh, but you are right. The ELO system works quite nicely, and at an international level, too. |
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Rusty Shallows
1473
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Posted - 2014.04.09 15:56:00 -
[31] - Quote
Jenza's Pants wrote:study did not recognize the frequent nerf and buff cycle. bad science. You can file that under control or game-mastery. Nerfs basically voids developed game SkillZ in addition to making the game more difficult.
Forums > Game: So here is a cookie and a Like. Please keep posting.
Bwahahahahahahahahahaha! >>> GòÜ(GÇóGîéGÇó)Gò¥ >>>
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steadyhand amarr
TeamPlayers Dirt Nap Squad.
2803
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Posted - 2014.04.09 16:20:00 -
[32] - Quote
Beld Errmon wrote:steadyhand amarr wrote:Science proving common knowledge :-P. Sad we need studies to ram this point home I noticed in the comments a bunch of people saying the same thing, I find it deeply saddening that people who have the intelligence to breathe regard science and the pursuit of knowledge with such contempt, I was reading the comments on an article a few weeks back regarding some science related to the big bang, people actually said something along the lines of "why bother researching things like this when we can't even find a plane missing on earth!" The real question that should be asked is why haven't scientist found away to stop stupid people from breeding and speaking. Look at what you wouldn't have if scientists let small minded fools hold them back
Im very pro sciance you missed my point by appling culture preduce on me assuming i think like a set subgroup of people of people. People like yourself would have locked me 50 years ago because i share mental health trates of mass muders when in fact im harmless.
THE POINT i was trying to make is studies like this are nornally funding grabs on a contravual subject for the sake of employment and dont really push science forword and instead they take conmon_knowlage and then apply a method that will most likely agree with it.
That is what i have a issue with snappy headline sciance that leads to people not getting vaccines because some **** said it might be dangerous.
This study basically agrees with standard and agreed human behavior patters. But i heading "humans find loss pof control or negative outside influences frustrating" which could have been proven by studying people in a car with bad steering on country lines while stuck in traffic.
"i dont care about you or your goals, just show me the dam isk"
winner of EU squad cup
GOGO power rangers
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Beld Errmon
1585
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Posted - 2014.04.09 16:55:00 -
[33] - Quote
steadyhand amarr wrote:Beld Errmon wrote:steadyhand amarr wrote:Science proving common knowledge :-P. Sad we need studies to ram this point home I noticed in the comments a bunch of people saying the same thing, I find it deeply saddening that people who have the intelligence to breathe regard science and the pursuit of knowledge with such contempt, I was reading the comments on an article a few weeks back regarding some science related to the big bang, people actually said something along the lines of "why bother researching things like this when we can't even find a plane missing on earth!" The real question that should be asked is why haven't scientist found away to stop stupid people from breeding and speaking. Look at what you wouldn't have if scientists let small minded fools hold them back Im very pro sciance you missed my point by appling culture preduce on me assuming i think like a set subgroup of people of people. People like yourself would have locked me 50 years ago because i share mental health trates of mass muders when in fact im harmless. THE POINT i was trying to make is studies like this are nornally funding grabs on a contravual subject for the sake of employment and dont really push science forword and instead they take conmon_knowlage and then apply a method that will most likely agree with it. That is what i have a issue with snappy headline sciance that leads to people not getting vaccines because some **** said it might be dangerous. This study basically agrees with standard and agreed human behavior patters. But i heading "humans find loss pof control or negative outside influences frustrating" which could have been proven by studying people in a car with bad steering on country lines while stuck in traffic.
Fair enough, i did miss your point, but the subject allowed me to get up on my soap box about idiots that oppose science because they don't know what obscure study can lead to, I would point out that that link doesn't take us to the full study and I don't think you can dismiss the value of something based on the same media grab you think it was tailored to get, but lets not get into actually reading the thing cause i doubt either of us want too :D
As for common knowledge, its often wrong, and it takes people doing studies to disprove it.
Shaving causes hair to grow back thicker - nope We only use 10% of our Total Brain Capacity - nope Napoleon was short - nope
Rise and rise again until lambs become lions.
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Jarlaxle JRXL
Well Oiled Machines
15
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Posted - 2014.04.09 17:46:00 -
[34] - Quote
Anarchide wrote:Maybe this game is better suited to you. Give it a try! It's totally balanced. whenever i see u again, im shooting u RIGHT IN UR FACE for that video... |
Anarchide
Greedy Bastards
1990
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Posted - 2014.04.09 18:55:00 -
[35] - Quote
Lucky for you, I'm extremely easy to shoot.
My alts: General John Ripper, Draxus Prime, MoonEagle A, Cat Merc, Long Evity, DeadlyAztec11 and Sinboto Simmons.
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Aramis Madrigal
SVER True Blood General Tso's Alliance
213
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Posted - 2014.04.09 19:38:00 -
[36] - Quote
We only use 10% of our Total Brain Capacity - nope
This is one of my favorites. If I remember correctly this is from EEG data showing that only 10% of neurons are producing action potentials at any one time. Brains are complex and costly from a evolutionary standpoint (require lots of energy, resource input, etc.). You would immediately think that a squid using only one of it's tentacles was messed up, but somehow the 10% myth persists even though it would be a massive waste of resources and highly mal-adaptive. If you're curious what someone "using 100% of their brain" looks like, they're thrashing around on the floor having a seizure.
-Aramis |
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