DUST Search - Passive Scanning is for Scouts - Active Scanning is for Logis

Django Quik wrote:

Slash Frenzy wrote:

@Django: You should study the tables you link to. A gallente scout with max skills WITHOUT cloak but 2 complex damps IS NOT SCANNABLE. Period.

Since the first day of the new patch I run exclusivly Caldari Scout. The argument here is that for everything there should be a counter. I don-¦t know about that but I tell you what, the Gallente Scout is the counter to the Caldari Scout. I-¦m serious,

Imagine a Dust where a Caldari Scout with 3 Complex Precision Enhancer can scan everything without you even knowing....

All the fuss is really about Gallente Scouts having such high alpha damage on unaware player. Tweak the decloak time a tiny bit and everything is back to normal.

Are you really complaining about scouts moving over the map without you noticing? Reallity check here, we did this before 1.8.

My 2c

I know a maxed gallente scout with 2 complex dampeners is unscannable - Medical Clash was claiming that you need both the gal logi bonus and proto scanners to scan scouts but the table shows you CAN scan SOME scouts with just the proto scanner in any suit.

Sacrificing 2 slots to become unscannable in one specific suit that specialises in being undetectable is a big deal - you shouldn't be able to counter that just with one piece of equipment.

Caldari scouts are indeed powerful and can counter dampened gallente scouts to a certain extent if they wish but they can only extend their range to about 50-60m IIRC because they only have 2 low slots.

The cloak issues are entirely separate and we all know the insta-shoot whilst decloaking thing is terrible but hopefully will get fixed very soon.

I'm not complaining about scouts moving anywhere without me noticing - I'm not sure where you got that from. I've been a gallente scout since Uprising 1.1. What I'm saying is that logis/anyone can counter scouts with a proto scanner, so they should stop trying to muscle in on scouts' precision and range abilities, which are specific and vital to their roles.

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Django Quik Dust2Dust. 2782	Posted - 2014.04.08 14:57:00 - [31] - Quote Or if you want that little bit of extra assurance that you're getting them all, you could always spend an extra 3k isk on a standard gallente logi suit to do this: http://www.protofits.com/fittings/index/0/3403 Of course you'll need level 5 gallente logi to pull that off but seeing as people complain about standard scout suits with proto skills, it only seems right to compare likewise against logis. Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot Scout community is the nuts
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 2628	Posted - 2014.04.08 20:30:00 - [32] - Quote KingBabar wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: I don't care what anyone says, scanners are bugged. I still use them, but they aren't picking up jack. I'm fine with not being able to be a scannerina, but fcking seriously I should still be able to scan while I'm moving! It just should increase my arc. Instead, it kills the whole thing. Can't stop for 1 second? My scanner picks up People no problem, which one are you using? It seems like the scanners Works best when standing still, I ofthen get bad results when moving which is why I don't. This might be an actual mechanic or merely something I believe to be true... I can stop, but why should I have to remain completely motionless to make a scanner not be broken? That's a bad mechanic. "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics"* -Sun Tzu Forum Warrior lv.2 Amarr victor!
Medical Crash CLONES AGAINST HUMANITY 253	Posted - 2014.04.08 20:42:00 - [33] - Quote Django Quik wrote: Jastad wrote: NAV HIV wrote: Why ?! It's useless cause people can't hold the scanning button, jump and do a 360?! That takes so much skills doesn't it.... The problem is people want to scan a 180k scout suit with a 30k logi suit.... Dude, as a heavy i can't scan. The problem is that some people thinks that is stupid bring a 180k logi suit that can't scan a Dragonfly BPO. We ALL think that 360 spin scan was bad. What we have now is a "lack of counter" to the EWAR scout. Anyone with any suit with equipment slots can fit a proto scanner. You can fit a proto scanner on a BPO assault with only BPO mods and weapons if you really want to and then you have a counter that costs only the price of the proto scanner. There is a counter and almost everyone can use it (not heavies). So you post makes no sense. Lol? You need high level Scanners WITH the Gallente Logi Bonus to even try to scan SOME of the Scouts now, their profile is THAT low. That's why I use so many Duvolle Focused Scanners, still I can not scan a Dampened Gal Scout. That is broken, every thing should have a counter, no suit should be unscannable with the correct equipment. To say otherwise is to defend your Scout Crutch. And I'm not even mentioning that the scanner doesn't always work. It bugs out sometimes, giving you NO readings, when half the team is in front of you. Scanners need a slightly-SLIGHTLY lower cooldown time+ stronger precision. This way the only suit that can scan all other suits is the Gallente Logi. Logis were nerfed, so let us be the "best" with what equipment we are bonused with. If I can't scan everyone with the most powerful scanner in the game with the suit that is DESIGNED for this equipment, then what is the point?
Django Quik Dust2Dust. 2800	Posted - 2014.04.08 21:43:00 - [34] - Quote Medical Crash wrote: [Lol? You need high level Scanners WITH the Gallente Logi Bonus to even try to scan SOME of the Scouts now, their profile is THAT low. You clearly need to take a look at Haerr's scanning table https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1902791#post1902791 Note that those numbers are all with max skills. You are wrong and you're clearly the one who's crying about their crutch being taken away (scanners were a massive crutch pre1.8). Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot Scout community is the nuts
shaman oga Nexus Balusa Horizon 1833	Posted - 2014.04.09 09:51:00 - [35] - Quote I've already expressed my POV here and in other topics, the fact that you don't see the message "You have been scanned" does not mean that you are not scanned, probably now it's even worse than in 1.7 but nobody seems to care as long there is not a POP UP FLASHING MESSAGE "YOU HAVE BEEN SCANNED". Active scanners need a complete rework and need to jump in the new gen of active modules, i would rework all the equipments not only scanners and turn them to active modules (nanohives and uplinks too) The unnamed new build it's so secret that nobody know what will be in it, even after patch notes.. \o/ summon me
Django Quik Dust2Dust. 2805	Posted - 2014.04.09 11:25:00 - [36] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: KingBabar wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: I don't care what anyone says, scanners are bugged. I still use them, but they aren't picking up jack. I'm fine with not being able to be a scannerina, but fcking seriously I should still be able to scan while I'm moving*! It just should increase my arc. Instead, it kills the whole thing. Can't stop for 1 second? My scanner picks up People no problem, which one are you using? It seems like the scanners Works best when standing still, I ofthen get bad results when moving which is why I don't. This might be an actual mechanic or merely something I believe to be true... I can stop, but why should I have to remain completely motionless to make a scanner not be broken? That's a bad mechanic. The only reason you have to stop is because CCP can't figure out an easy way to stop scannerinas, so they said they made it an instantaneous snapshot scan but really what they did was make it a really quick scan, which breaks the scans easily. No one said and no one is saying it should be this way - that's just the way it is. However, it hardly makes scanners useless that you have to stand still for half a second to use them. Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot Scout community is the nuts
Django Quik Dust2Dust. 2805	Posted - 2014.04.09 11:34:00 - [37] - Quote I've made a bugs thread about the movement breaking active scanners problem - feel free to weigh in here: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=154629&find=unread Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot Scout community is the nuts
ZDub 303 TeamPlayers Dirt Nap Squad. 2442	Posted - 2014.04.09 11:48:00 - [38] - Quote Scanners need to be reworks with an internal capactior with cloaks, as said by others in this thread. Then... to make them how CCP actually intends but has been unable to make them. You increase the scanning duration of each scanner substantially, to something like 20s std 30s adv and 40s pro. with some sort of appropriate cooldown. Then you decrease the scanned duration of targets to something like 0.1s. This means that all targets show up as long as the logi is scanning, however the logi has to continue scanning for those items to show up on the tac net. It becomes a team effort. Then you can rework the gal logi bonus slight to have increased duration and decreased recharge modifier. THAT would give us true 'snapshot' active scanning imo. You can scanerinna like a rader pulse if you wish or focus on a single area to give exact positional data with each method being valid with advantages and disadvantages.
NAV HIV The Generals General Tso's Alliance 1389	Posted - 2014.04.09 12:16:00 - [39] - Quote Medical Crash wrote: Django Quik wrote: Jastad wrote: NAV HIV wrote: Why ?! It's useless cause people can't hold the scanning button, jump and do a 360?! That takes so much skills doesn't it.... The problem is people want to scan a 180k scout suit with a 30k logi suit.... Dude, as a heavy i can't scan. The problem is that some people thinks that is stupid bring a 180k logi suit that can't scan a Dragonfly BPO. We ALL think that 360 spin scan was bad. What we have now is a "lack of counter" to the EWAR scout. Anyone with any suit with equipment slots can fit a proto scanner. You can fit a proto scanner on a BPO assault with only BPO mods and weapons if you really want to and then you have a counter that costs only the price of the proto scanner. There is a counter and almost everyone can use it (not heavies). So you post makes no sense. Lol? You need high level Scanners WITH the Gallente Logi Bonus to even try to scan SOME of the Scouts now, their profile is THAT low. That's why I use so many Duvolle Focused Scanners, still I can not scan a Dampened Gal Scout. That is broken, every thing should have a counter, no suit should be unscannable with the correct equipment. To say otherwise is to defend your Scout Crutch. And I'm not even mentioning that the scanner doesn't always work. It bugs out sometimes, giving you NO readings, when half the team is in front of you. Scanners need a slightly-SLIGHTLY lower cooldown time+ stronger precision. This way the only suit that can scan all other suits is the Gallente Logi. Logis were nerfed, so let us be the "best" with what equipment we are bonused with. If I can't scan everyone with the most powerful scanner in the game with the suit that is DESIGNED for this equipment, then what is the point? You are right... Gal Scout Has a few Counters: 1. Cal Scout (Proper Cal scout) 2. Cal Logi (2, 3 PE + 1,2 Range Amp) + Scanner Brick tanking logi is for the weak 3. Min Logi (Similar Setup ^) 4+4+4 lay out - use your imagination There are counters to everything now... People just have to come out from that Shield extender and Armor plate shells and use the other modules....
Slash Frenzy R 0 N 1 N 30	Posted - 2014.04.09 12:38:00 - [40] - Quote @Django: You should study the tables you link to. A gallente scout with max skills WITHOUT cloak but 2 complex damps IS NOT SCANNABLE. Period. Since the first day of the new patch I run exclusivly Caldari Scout. The argument here is that for everything there should be a counter. I don-¦t know about that but I tell you what, the Gallente Scout is the counter to the Caldari Scout. I-¦m serious, Imagine a Dust where a Caldari Scout with 3 Complex Precision Enhancer can scan everything without you even knowing.... All the fuss is really about Gallente Scouts having such high alpha damage on unaware player. Tweak the decloak time a tiny bit and everything is back to normal. Are you really complaining about scouts moving over the map without you noticing? Reallity check here, we did this before 1.8. My 2c

Yan Darn Science For Death 549	Posted - 2014.04.09 12:50:00 - [41] - Quote Medical Crash wrote: Django Quik wrote: Jastad wrote: NAV HIV wrote: Why ?! It's useless cause people can't hold the scanning button, jump and do a 360?! That takes so much skills doesn't it.... The problem is people want to scan a 180k scout suit with a 30k logi suit.... Dude, as a heavy i can't scan. The problem is that some people thinks that is stupid bring a 180k logi suit that can't scan a Dragonfly BPO. We ALL think that 360 spin scan was bad. What we have now is a "lack of counter" to the EWAR scout. Anyone with any suit with equipment slots can fit a proto scanner. You can fit a proto scanner on a BPO assault with only BPO mods and weapons if you really want to and then you have a counter that costs only the price of the proto scanner. There is a counter and almost everyone can use it (not heavies). So you post makes no sense. Lol? You need high level Scanners WITH the Gallente Logi Bonus to even try to scan SOME of the Scouts now, their profile is THAT low. That's why I use so many Duvolle Focused Scanners, still I can not scan a Dampened Gal Scout. That is broken, every thing should have a counter, no suit should be unscannable with the correct equipment. To say otherwise is to defend your Scout Crutch. And I'm not even mentioning that the scanner doesn't always work. It bugs out sometimes, giving you NO readings, when half the team is in front of you. Scanners need a slightly-SLIGHTLY lower cooldown time+ stronger precision. This way the only suit that can scan all other suits is the Gallente Logi. Logis were nerfed, so let us be the "best" with what equipment we are bonused with. If I can't scan everyone with the most powerful scanner in the game with the suit that is DESIGNED for this equipment, then what is the point? I think one could easily turn that around and ask why the one scout with stealth specialisation can still be scanned even when sacrificing low slots for dampening mods...what would be the point of stealth specialisation? I do believe the description for the proto-focused states that only the strongest counter-measures can beat it? I keep saying this - there are two problems with overall game mechanics. 1) Tanking and mods in general are f'd - tank mods are out of kilter with each other and high slots have always been less versatile the low slots. 2) scanning is f'd because its always been a case of needing to break a specific barrier - you can upgrade to complex dampener or precision mod, or equip a proto scanner and still see zero difference in terms of ewar capability. Whereas tanking and damage mods will always help you out in at least some capacity. Address these two issues and you solve a lot of the QQ on The forums. The Ghost of Bravo
Django Quik Dust2Dust. 2807	Posted - 2014.04.09 13:10:00 - [42] - Quote Slash Frenzy wrote: @Django: You should study the tables you link to. A gallente scout with max skills WITHOUT cloak but 2 complex damps IS NOT SCANNABLE. Period. Since the first day of the new patch I run exclusivly Caldari Scout. The argument here is that for everything there should be a counter. I don-¦t know about that but I tell you what, the Gallente Scout is the counter to the Caldari Scout. I-¦m serious, Imagine a Dust where a Caldari Scout with 3 Complex Precision Enhancer can scan everything without you even knowing.... All the fuss is really about Gallente Scouts having such high alpha damage on unaware player. Tweak the decloak time a tiny bit and everything is back to normal. Are you really complaining about scouts moving over the map without you noticing? Reallity check here, we did this before 1.8. My 2c I know a maxed gallente scout with 2 complex dampeners is unscannable - Medical Clash was claiming that you need both the gal logi bonus and proto scanners to scan scouts but the table shows you CAN scan SOME scouts with just the proto scanner in any suit. Sacrificing 2 slots to become unscannable in one specific suit that specialises in being undetectable is a big deal - you shouldn't be able to counter that just with one piece of equipment. Caldari scouts are indeed powerful and can counter dampened gallente scouts to a certain extent if they wish but they can only extend their range to about 50-60m IIRC because they only have 2 low slots. The cloak issues are entirely separate and we all know the insta-shoot whilst decloaking thing is terrible but hopefully will get fixed very soon. I'm not complaining about scouts moving anywhere without me noticing - I'm not sure where you got that from. I've been a gallente scout since Uprising 1.1. What I'm saying is that logis/anyone can counter scouts with a proto scanner, so they should stop trying to muscle in on scouts' precision and range abilities, which are specific and vital to their roles. Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot Scout community is the nuts
Medical Crash CLONES AGAINST HUMANITY 256	Posted - 2014.04.10 22:04:00 - [43] - Quote Django Quik wrote: Slash Frenzy wrote: @Django: You should study the tables you link to. A gallente scout with max skills WITHOUT cloak but 2 complex damps IS NOT SCANNABLE. Period. Since the first day of the new patch I run exclusivly Caldari Scout. The argument here is that for everything there should be a counter. I don-¦t know about that but I tell you what, the Gallente Scout is the counter to the Caldari Scout. I-¦m serious, Imagine a Dust where a Caldari Scout with 3 Complex Precision Enhancer can scan everything without you even knowing.... All the fuss is really about Gallente Scouts having such high alpha damage on unaware player. Tweak the decloak time a tiny bit and everything is back to normal. Are you really complaining about scouts moving over the map without you noticing? Reallity check here, we did this before 1.8. My 2c I know a maxed gallente scout with 2 complex dampeners is unscannable - Medical Clash was claiming that you need both the gal logi bonus and proto scanners to scan scouts but the table shows you CAN scan SOME scouts with just the proto scanner in any suit. Sacrificing 2 slots to become unscannable in one specific suit that specialises in being undetectable is a big deal - you shouldn't be able to counter that just with one piece of equipment. Caldari scouts are indeed powerful and can counter dampened gallente scouts to a certain extent if they wish but they can only extend their range to about 50-60m IIRC because they only have 2 low slots. The cloak issues are entirely separate and we all know the insta-shoot whilst decloaking thing is terrible but hopefully will get fixed very soon. I'm not complaining about scouts moving anywhere without me noticing - I'm not sure where you got that from. I've been a gallente scout since Uprising 1.1. What I'm saying is that logis/anyone can counter scouts with a proto scanner, so they should stop trying to muscle in on scouts' precision and range abilities, which are specific and vital to their roles. Skilling into Gallente Logi, choosing to use a high resource costing equipment with MAJOR downsides, the "Duvolle Focuse Scanner" is a lot of devotion SP and tactic wise. The cooldown is so long, a person would be a fool not to carry more than one. With full Gal Logi bonus, enemy suits remain on the radar for 7.5 seconds. This is not the Quantum we're talking about, that is virtually no time on the radar. You are not on the radar for very long when scanned, and scanning such a low dB requires much much effort on the guy scanning. Also, it takes him out of combat if steady scans are to be maintained. If the guy scanning is not at the correct angle, he will scan inefficiently. This is why I position myself in corners in the cities, you need to be in certain spots to maximise the scan of the city. With all these cons, ALL suits should be scannable. The low time on radar is the final balancing act of it. Sure, the Gal Logi Scanning full time can't paint you on screen for long, but at least we can know where you are at times. That would be balanced. Counter for Tactic.
pegasis prime BIG BAD W0LVES Canis Eliminatus Operatives 1635	Posted - 2014.04.10 22:26:00 - [44] - Quote Django Quik wrote: Jastad wrote: KingBabar wrote: I don't get all this scanner QQ, I use it on every fitting except a few "specials", it Works very well, a useful tool to any team. Yes, it is on a scout suit... Guess that's that, the scanner....not your proto Scout CK0 Why would you use an active scanner on a caldari scout? I was kind of thinking the same thing . My cal scout is stacked with e war mods a cloak and remote explosives.. There is literallynothing in the game that can hide from my passive scans up tto 40 m away from me. Proud Gunlogi pilot and forge gunner since August 2012. I fought and bled for the State on Caldari prime.
neausea 1987 R 0 N 1 N 155	Posted - 2014.04.10 22:38:00 - [45] - Quote active scanner user----- i cant 360 i dont wanna use it scout----- bwah ha haaa you fools now nobody can see me, not even other scouts because they are too scared to run mods. this is all I have a¦Ñ_a¦Ñ.... GòÜ(GÇóGîéGÇó)Gò¥ .... (Gò»°Gûí°n+ëGò»n+¦ Gö+GöüGö+ ......... Gö+GöüGö+ n+¦pâ+(`-ö´)n+ën+¦ Gö+GöüGö+ i need more QQ tears MORE!!


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