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Django Quik
Dust2Dust.
2770
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Posted - 2014.04.08 09:26:00 -
[1] - Quote
People keep asking for more and easier ways to counter scouts but everyone ignores that these counters already exist.
Except for the best dampened scouts, all are detectable through active scanners. No one uses them anymore because they can't 360 perma-scan now but they are still useful things. Sit at your home edge of the complexes and scan in the direction of the complex and you will pick up pretty much the entire interior area. Use a logi if you don't have the fittings space on your assault; that's what logis are for. If you're still struggling, use better scanners and/or get a gal logi - that's what they're for!
There are counters to everything in this game. Just because you can't fit ALL of them on every one of your suits, does not mean they are not there.
Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot
Scout community is the nuts
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Django Quik
Dust2Dust.
2772
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Posted - 2014.04.08 09:40:00 -
[2] - Quote
Jastad wrote:Django Quik wrote:People keep asking for more and easier ways to counter scouts but everyone ignores that these counters already exist.
Except for the best dampened scouts, all are detectable through active scanners. No one uses them anymore because they can't 360 perma-scan now but they are still useful things. Sit at your home edge of the complexes and scan in the direction of the complex and you will pick up pretty much the entire interior area. Use a logi if you don't have the fittings space on your assault; that's what logis are for. If you're still struggling, use better scanners and/or get a gal logi - that's what they're for!
There are counters to everything in this game. Just because you can't fit ALL of them on every one of your suits, does not mean they are not there. Question time Have you tried the Scanners?
Yes.
Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot
Scout community is the nuts
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Django Quik
Dust2Dust.
2772
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Posted - 2014.04.08 09:48:00 -
[3] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:Scanners need the fix we were told they were getting, not the nerf CCP actually gave us.
How they DID work: Scan time means Scanners could be used by "scannerinas" spinning around and getting 360 scans.
How the fix was MEANT to work: Scanners take an instantaneous "snapshot" lighting everything up in a fixed arc with NO ability to extend it AT ALL by turning, and everything that's caught by the scanner being kept visible for a duration determined by the scanner model.
How it ACTUALLY works: Scanners have a short duration of scanning and a significant nerf to their scanning arc, and if you try to pan while scanning, you'll have to turn at just the right speed or you'll miss targets which should be inside the area being scanned.
None of this negates the fact that Active Scanners SHOULD be viable, and that once they're working properly, they'll be a good counter to a lot of Scouts.
I don't think they're not working properly. You scan instantaneously and all the targets in the arc at time light up for the period. Trying to 'pan' or mini-scannerina screws it up, so don't bother.
A cool change would be to make some scanners able to keep scanning for a period (I believe was the original intention of the old 'scanning period') but as soon as you move the scan breaks and the cooldown timer starts - that second part there should have been the real fix.
Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot
Scout community is the nuts
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Django Quik
Dust2Dust.
2773
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Posted - 2014.04.08 10:11:00 -
[4] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:The problem is that the scanning arc was nerfed for no apparent reason, and trying to make up for that with a small pan across a short arc will usually (but not always) break the scan. That's exactly what I said. It should INSTANTLY "snap" and light everything up, then NOT be useful to turn or do anything to try and cover a wider arc than the listed value, but it should have a wider arc than the current stats on the scanners have.
Agreed, CCP of course went a little too far with the nerf and to be perfectly honest I think (and I believe many scouts agreed pre1.8) that all that needed to be done to active scanner was to remove the ability to 360 perma scan. They clearly couldn't figure out a proper way to do that, so they fudged it by reducing the timer and arc so you couldn't spin all the way round.
They're far from useless right now though.
Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot
Scout community is the nuts
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Django Quik
Dust2Dust.
2773
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Posted - 2014.04.08 10:12:00 -
[5] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:fragmentedhackslash wrote:Allow Range amp, and precosion enhancements to adjust scanning equipment, I suggested this 4 months ago. Nerf their baseline stats a little and I can support this. A Scanner-tanked Logi should be able to give up a module slot or two and pick up cloaked Scouts.
I like this idea.
Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot
Scout community is the nuts
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Django Quik
Dust2Dust.
2773
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Posted - 2014.04.08 10:15:00 -
[6] - Quote
Khan Hun wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but this is how I see it right now:
...
2) They 2-3 shot most suits before you can turn around to see them from cloaked
3) One counter is... another cloaked scout, which means even more scouts...
2) When the cloak insta shoot glitch is fixed the cloaked shotgunner problem will be vastly reduced.
3) You don't need to be a cloaked scout to pick up other scouts on passive scan - you need to be a scout. Oooor a logi with a focused scanner. Granted it's not the ideal scanner but it will pick up those cloaked scouts!
Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot
Scout community is the nuts
|
Django Quik
Dust2Dust.
2774
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 10:31:00 -
[7] - Quote
COVERT SUBTERFUGE wrote:Passive and active scanners are for scouts. A scout can see people coming passively and relay that info to the team as they are less likely to waste a scan. Logis have awful passive scans and so the scanner is used blindly in most cases and if you miss you have a long ass down time to wait out.
It's not difficult to guess which way people might be approaching from - just because you can't scan everywhere at once, doesn't mean you can't scan the most likely places fairly regularly, NOT PERMANENTLY.
There are only so many routes players can take and there are certain routes that scouts in particular are most likely to take. If you have a whole bunch of blues ahead of you, the scout is probably not going to come from that direction. Scouts flank, so if you're worried about scouts, watch the flanks.
Edit - also, how are "active scanners for scouts"? We get no bonuses to them or fittings reductions and they take up one of our slots that would be better served by REs/Uplinks and/or cloak.
Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot
Scout community is the nuts
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Django Quik
Dust2Dust.
2776
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Posted - 2014.04.08 11:15:00 -
[8] - Quote
Jastad wrote:KingBabar wrote:I don't get all this scanner QQ, I use it on every fitting except a few "specials", it Works very well, a useful tool to any team.
Yes, it is on a scout suit... Guess that's that, the scanner....not your proto Scout CK0 
Why would you use an active scanner on a caldari scout?
Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot
Scout community is the nuts
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Django Quik
Dust2Dust.
2780
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Posted - 2014.04.08 14:37:00 -
[9] - Quote
Jastad wrote:NAV HIV wrote:Why ?! It's useless cause people can't hold the scanning button, jump and do a 360?! That takes so much skills doesn't it....
The problem is people want to scan a 180k scout suit with a 30k logi suit.... Dude, as a heavy i can't scan. The problem is that some people thinks that is stupid bring a 180k logi suit that can't scan a Dragonfly BPO. We ALL think that 360 spin scan was bad. What we have now is a "lack of counter" to the EWAR scout.
Anyone with any suit with equipment slots can fit a proto scanner. You can fit a proto scanner on a BPO assault with only BPO mods and weapons if you really want to and then you have a counter that costs only the price of the proto scanner.
There is a counter and almost everyone can use it (not heavies). So you post makes no sense.
Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot
Scout community is the nuts
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Django Quik
Dust2Dust.
2782
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Posted - 2014.04.08 14:51:00 -
[10] - Quote
Here is an example of a reasonable counter to most scouts that costs just a tad over 30k isk and the only SP you need to have ever spent is on the skills required to get a proto scanner:
http://www.protofits.com/fittings/index/0/3402
Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot
Scout community is the nuts
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Django Quik
Dust2Dust.
2782
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Posted - 2014.04.08 14:57:00 -
[11] - Quote
Or if you want that little bit of extra assurance that you're getting them all, you could always spend an extra 3k isk on a standard gallente logi suit to do this:
http://www.protofits.com/fittings/index/0/3403
Of course you'll need level 5 gallente logi to pull that off but seeing as people complain about standard scout suits with proto skills, it only seems right to compare likewise against logis.
Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot
Scout community is the nuts
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Django Quik
Dust2Dust.
2800
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Posted - 2014.04.08 21:43:00 -
[12] - Quote
Medical Crash wrote:[Lol? You need high level Scanners WITH the Gallente Logi Bonus to even try to scan SOME of the Scouts now, their profile is THAT low.
You clearly need to take a look at Haerr's scanning table https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1902791#post1902791
Note that those numbers are all with max skills.
You are wrong and you're clearly the one who's crying about their crutch being taken away (scanners were a massive crutch pre1.8).
Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot
Scout community is the nuts
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Django Quik
Dust2Dust.
2805
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Posted - 2014.04.09 11:25:00 -
[13] - Quote
John Demonsbane wrote:KingBabar wrote:John Demonsbane wrote:I don't care what anyone says, scanners are bugged. I still use them, but they aren't picking up jack.
I'm fine with not being able to be a scannerina, but f*cking seriously I should still be able to scan while I'm moving! It just should increase my arc. Instead, it kills the whole thing. Can't stop for 1 second? My scanner picks up People no problem, which one are you using? It seems like the scanners Works best when standing still, I ofthen get bad results when moving which is why I don't. This might be an actual mechanic or merely something I believe to be true... I can stop, but why should I have to remain completely motionless to make a scanner not be broken? That's a bad mechanic.
The only reason you have to stop is because CCP can't figure out an easy way to stop scannerinas, so they said they made it an instantaneous snapshot scan but really what they did was make it a really quick scan, which breaks the scans easily. No one said and no one is saying it should be this way - that's just the way it is. However, it hardly makes scanners useless that you have to stand still for half a second to use them.
Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot
Scout community is the nuts
|
Django Quik
Dust2Dust.
2805
|
Posted - 2014.04.09 11:34:00 -
[14] - Quote
I've made a bugs thread about the movement breaking active scanners problem - feel free to weigh in here:
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=154629&find=unread
Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot
Scout community is the nuts
|
Django Quik
Dust2Dust.
2807
|
Posted - 2014.04.09 13:10:00 -
[15] - Quote
Slash Frenzy wrote:@Django: You should study the tables you link to. A gallente scout with max skills WITHOUT cloak but 2 complex damps IS NOT SCANNABLE. Period.
Since the first day of the new patch I run exclusivly Caldari Scout. The argument here is that for everything there should be a counter. I don-¦t know about that but I tell you what, the Gallente Scout is the counter to the Caldari Scout. I-¦m serious,
Imagine a Dust where a Caldari Scout with 3 Complex Precision Enhancer can scan everything without you even knowing....
All the fuss is really about Gallente Scouts having such high alpha damage on unaware player. Tweak the decloak time a tiny bit and everything is back to normal.
Are you really complaining about scouts moving over the map without you noticing? Reallity check here, we did this before 1.8.
My 2c
I know a maxed gallente scout with 2 complex dampeners is unscannable - Medical Clash was claiming that you need both the gal logi bonus and proto scanners to scan scouts but the table shows you CAN scan SOME scouts with just the proto scanner in any suit.
Sacrificing 2 slots to become unscannable in one specific suit that specialises in being undetectable is a big deal - you shouldn't be able to counter that just with one piece of equipment.
Caldari scouts are indeed powerful and can counter dampened gallente scouts to a certain extent if they wish but they can only extend their range to about 50-60m IIRC because they only have 2 low slots.
The cloak issues are entirely separate and we all know the insta-shoot whilst decloaking thing is terrible but hopefully will get fixed very soon.
I'm not complaining about scouts moving anywhere without me noticing - I'm not sure where you got that from. I've been a gallente scout since Uprising 1.1. What I'm saying is that logis/anyone can counter scouts with a proto scanner, so they should stop trying to muscle in on scouts' precision and range abilities, which are specific and vital to their roles.
Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot
Scout community is the nuts
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