DUST Search - Request:Reduce shotgun magazine size by 1/2

Meee One wrote:

Awry Barux wrote:

Meee One wrote:

Awry Barux wrote:

a. The comparison with the bolt pistol is invalid. One is a sidearm with a 50m optimal, the other is a light weapon with a 5m optimal.
b. If a single shotgun scout can kill your whole squad, that's your own fault. A heavy can melt a scout in less time than it takes to get a second shotgun round off.

A.5m optimal?
Someone doesn't have their sharpshooter maxed. If you did you'd know it's 10m optimal easily.
B. Scouts + bunny hopping + bad hit detection = godmode

You managed to avoid my point entirely.

a. Shotguns don't have a sharpshooter skill, what are you talking about? Plus, sharpshooter decreases dispersion, it has no effect on optimal range. At 10m shotguns do about 50% damage, and even less once you account for the fact that not all the pellets will hit at that range.

b. I gun down shotgun scouts at close range regularly with a magsec or a scrambler pistol, from 10-15m away because the shotgun tickles at that range. Get better. Bunny hopping makes them easier to hit because they can't change their trajectory or speed for a solid second.

c. What point did I avoid? I addressed your reasoning for the nerf through comparison to another weapon. The "pandemic" of a single scout killing a whole squad isn't a problem for most people- all you need is a little communication or situational awareness and the scouts melt like butter. If you mean the comparison to the breach shotgun, that gun is nearly universally considered UP. This clip size nerf is unwarranted. Get used to the fact that weapons other than rifles are viable now.

Scouts of 1.8 are the tankers of 1.7
Unreasonable in every form,your posts prove this.
"situational awareness" is the go-to buzz phrase they use to berate you trying to cast suspicion upon your gaming skills instead of the OP nature of their class.
We're done talking,go somewhere else with your FOTM worship.

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Meee One Hello Kitty Commandos 748	Posted - 2014.04.08 05:10:00 - [1] - Quote My reasoning:Bolt pistols do 100+ damage per shot yet have less magazine size than a shotgun. Shotguns even at the MLT level do 400+ damage which is equivalent to a grenade x8. A reduction of 1/2 would partiality end the pandemic of a single shotgun toting scout killing a whole squad. The new size would be 4,still two more than the breach. John 15:13-Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
Awry Barux Ametat Security Amarr Empire 1685	Posted - 2014.04.08 05:15:00 - [2] - Quote a. The comparison with the bolt pistol is invalid. One is a sidearm with a 50m optimal, the other is a light weapon with a 5m optimal. b. If a single shotgun scout can kill your whole squad, that's your own fault. A heavy can melt a scout in less time than it takes to get a second shotgun round off. Nerdier than thou
tander09 KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 85	Posted - 2014.04.08 05:23:00 - [3] - Quote Awry Barux wrote: I'm a shotgun user who is defending my crutch eye twitches Recruiter link here: https://dust514.com/recruit/FepTs1/ Try and steal my BPOs. I dare ya. AMARRIAN4LYFE
Meee One Hello Kitty Commandos 748	Posted - 2014.04.08 05:32:00 - [4] - Quote Awry Barux wrote: a. The comparison with the bolt pistol is invalid. One is a sidearm with a 50m optimal, the other is a light weapon with a 5m optimal. b. If a single shotgun scout can kill your whole squad, that's your own fault. A heavy can melt a scout in less time than it takes to get a second shotgun round off. A.5m optimal? Someone doesn't have their sharpshooter maxed. If you did you'd know it's 10m optimal easily. B. Scouts + bunny hopping + bad hit detection = godmode You managed to avoid my point entirely. John 15:13-Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
Awry Barux Ametat Security Amarr Empire 1685	Posted - 2014.04.08 05:46:00 - [5] - Quote Meee One wrote: Awry Barux wrote: a. The comparison with the bolt pistol is invalid. One is a sidearm with a 50m optimal, the other is a light weapon with a 5m optimal. b. If a single shotgun scout can kill your whole squad, that's your own fault. A heavy can melt a scout in less time than it takes to get a second shotgun round off. A.5m optimal? Someone doesn't have their sharpshooter maxed. If you did you'd know it's 10m optimal easily. B. Scouts + bunny hopping + bad hit detection = godmode You managed to avoid my point entirely. a. Shotguns don't have a sharpshooter skill, what are you talking about? Plus, sharpshooter decreases dispersion, it has no effect on optimal range. At 10m shotguns do about 50% damage, and even less once you account for the fact that not all the pellets will hit at that range. b. I gun down shotgun scouts at close range regularly with a magsec or a scrambler pistol, from 10-15m away because the shotgun tickles at that range. Get better. Bunny hopping makes them easier to hit because they can't change their trajectory or speed for a solid second. c. What point did I avoid? I addressed your reasoning for the nerf through comparison to another weapon. The "pandemic" of a single scout killing a whole squad isn't a problem for most people- all you need is a little communication or situational awareness and the scouts melt like butter. If you mean the comparison to the breach shotgun, that gun is nearly universally considered UP. This clip size nerf is unwarranted. Get used to the fact that weapons other than rifles are viable now. Nerdier than thou
Meee One Hello Kitty Commandos 749	Posted - 2014.04.08 06:54:00 - [6] - Quote Awry Barux wrote: Meee One wrote: Awry Barux wrote: a. The comparison with the bolt pistol is invalid. One is a sidearm with a 50m optimal, the other is a light weapon with a 5m optimal. b. If a single shotgun scout can kill your whole squad, that's your own fault. A heavy can melt a scout in less time than it takes to get a second shotgun round off. A.5m optimal? Someone doesn't have their sharpshooter maxed. If you did you'd know it's 10m optimal easily. B. Scouts + bunny hopping + bad hit detection = godmode You managed to avoid my point entirely. a. Shotguns don't have a sharpshooter skill, what are you talking about? Plus, sharpshooter decreases dispersion, it has no effect on optimal range. At 10m shotguns do about 50% damage, and even less once you account for the fact that not all the pellets will hit at that range. b. I gun down shotgun scouts at close range regularly with a magsec or a scrambler pistol, from 10-15m away because the shotgun tickles at that range. Get better. Bunny hopping makes them easier to hit because they can't change their trajectory or speed for a solid second. c. What point did I avoid? I addressed your reasoning for the nerf through comparison to another weapon. The "pandemic" of a single scout killing a whole squad isn't a problem for most people- all you need is a little communication or situational awareness and the scouts melt like butter. If you mean the comparison to the breach shotgun, that gun is nearly universally considered UP. This clip size nerf is unwarranted. Get used to the fact that weapons other than rifles are viable now. Scouts of 1.8 are the tankers of 1.7 Unreasonable in every form,your posts prove this. "situational awareness" is the go-to buzz phrase they use to berate you trying to cast suspicion upon your gaming skills instead of the OP nature of their class. We're done talking,go somewhere else with your FOTM worship. John 15:13-Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
Django Quik Dust2Dust. 2769	Posted - 2014.04.08 08:15:00 - [7] - Quote Meee One wrote: Awry Barux wrote: a. The comparison with the bolt pistol is invalid. One is a sidearm with a 50m optimal, the other is a light weapon with a 5m optimal. b. If a single shotgun scout can kill your whole squad, that's your own fault. A heavy can melt a scout in less time than it takes to get a second shotgun round off. A.5m optimal? Someone doesn't have their sharpshooter maxed. If you did you'd know it's 10m optimal easily. B. Scouts + bunny hopping + bad hit detection = godmode You managed to avoid my point entirely. Lol sharpshooter skill? Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot Scout community is the nuts
Spectral Clone Dust2Dust. Top Men. 2152	Posted - 2014.04.08 08:19:00 - [8] - Quote A good counter to scouts is actually a Gallente Commando. Let them scan you, let them come close with their shotgun. Tank two shotgun hits due to MASSIVE brick tank. Use breach shotgun to OHK scout. Of course, its not very easy to do this in practice... but I am trying on my alt :o Alt#1 Scout gk.0 - ScR, CR, RR, PLC, SMG Alt#2 Madrugar - Ion Cannon Alt#3 Commando gk.0 - Shotgun, AR
Rich o United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 186	Posted - 2014.04.08 09:15:00 - [9] - Quote You must be very very butthurt it seems... First you compare a side-arm with a light weapon (you could compare the scrambler pistol with the burst-CR, would make no sense too), then you say bunny-hopping is god-mode and then the 1.8 scouts are 1.7-HP-tanker. What's your problem? Light weapons are designed to do more damage than side-arms at certain ranges. Bunny-hopping scouts don't have much HP, spray and pray and backpedalling works wonders, and tanked scouts are slow and easy to scan due to the lack oft dampeners Learn how to play as team, and scouts are no thread at all 2nd place in EU Squad Cup Master Shinobi
Arx Ardashir Imperium Aeternum 765	Posted - 2014.04.08 09:48:00 - [10] - Quote Meee One wrote: My reasoning:Bolt pistols do 100+ damage per shot yet have less magazine size than a shotgun. Shotguns even at the MLT level do 400+ damage which is equivalent to a grenade x8. What crappy grenades are you using? Amarr Master - All Amarr Dropsuits at lvl 5. Ghosts Chance's hero for 3/1/14. A manu dei et tet rimon.

KalOfTheRathi Nec Tributis 1165	Posted - 2014.04.08 10:28:00 - [11] - Quote Shotgun damage information shows a really small number. My guess is that it is per pellet. Do we know how many pellets are in the shell? Or did they update the damage in the information yet? And so it goes.
Rich o United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 187	Posted - 2014.04.08 10:39:00 - [12] - Quote KalOfTheRathi wrote: Shotgun damage information shows a really small number. My guess is that it is per pellet. Do we know how many pellets are in the shell? Or did they update the damage in the information yet? As I know there are 12 pellets per shot 2nd place in EU Squad Cup Master Shinobi
Korvin Lomont United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 893	Posted - 2014.04.08 13:18:00 - [13] - Quote Meee One wrote: Awry Barux wrote: a. The comparison with the bolt pistol is invalid. One is a sidearm with a 50m optimal, the other is a light weapon with a 5m optimal. b. If a single shotgun scout can kill your whole squad, that's your own fault. A heavy can melt a scout in less time than it takes to get a second shotgun round off. A.5m optimal? Someone doesn't have their sharpshooter maxed. If you did you'd know it's 10m optimal easily. B. Scouts + bunny hopping + bad hit detection = godmode You managed to avoid my point entirely. Sharpshooter on a SG? This was back in chromosome in uprising the Sharpshooter skill reduces dispersion and is not available on the SG... And yes the optimal is 4 to 5 m and yes the damage fall off is quite drastic. And Even though the SG seems soooo OP I still see 70 to 80% Rifle kills...and a HMG has no problem to chew through a squad... The only reason you see more SG kills (and honestly I don't see that much) is we can now close the gab with more safety that's it. And a highly skilled SG is hard to use you can simply out strafe a SG on OP5 because on OP5 the SG works like having Slugs loaded... Just on a Sidenode you point B would speak AGAINST the semi auto SG and FOR fully automatic weapons as these are less hindered by lag and have AA work for them...the SG does not benefit from AA to my knowledge
Korvin Lomont United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 893	Posted - 2014.04.08 13:21:00 - [14] - Quote Rich o wrote: KalOfTheRathi wrote: Shotgun damage information shows a really small number. My guess is that it is per pellet. Do we know how many pellets are in the shell? Or did they update the damage in the information yet? As I know there are 12 pellets per shot Jupp 12 pellets its all in the SDE so the std SG can do up to 480 damage per shot IF all pellets hit.
Awry Barux Ametat Security Amarr Empire 1693	Posted - 2014.04.08 15:39:00 - [15] - Quote Meee One wrote: Awry Barux wrote: Meee One wrote: Awry Barux wrote: a. The comparison with the bolt pistol is invalid. One is a sidearm with a 50m optimal, the other is a light weapon with a 5m optimal. b. If a single shotgun scout can kill your whole squad, that's your own fault. A heavy can melt a scout in less time than it takes to get a second shotgun round off. A.5m optimal? Someone doesn't have their sharpshooter maxed. If you did you'd know it's 10m optimal easily. B. Scouts + bunny hopping + bad hit detection = godmode You managed to avoid my point entirely. a. Shotguns don't have a sharpshooter skill, what are you talking about? Plus, sharpshooter decreases dispersion, it has no effect on optimal range. At 10m shotguns do about 50% damage, and even less once you account for the fact that not all the pellets will hit at that range. b. I gun down shotgun scouts at close range regularly with a magsec or a scrambler pistol, from 10-15m away because the shotgun tickles at that range. Get better. Bunny hopping makes them easier to hit because they can't change their trajectory or speed for a solid second. c. What point did I avoid? I addressed your reasoning for the nerf through comparison to another weapon. The "pandemic" of a single scout killing a whole squad isn't a problem for most people- all you need is a little communication or situational awareness and the scouts melt like butter. If you mean the comparison to the breach shotgun, that gun is nearly universally considered UP. This clip size nerf is unwarranted. Get used to the fact that weapons other than rifles are viable now. Scouts of 1.8 are the tankers of 1.7 Unreasonable in every form,your posts prove this. "situational awareness" is the go-to buzz phrase they use to berate you trying to cast suspicion upon your gaming skills instead of the OP nature of their class. We're done talking,go somewhere else with your FOTM worship. Please, explain to me where I'm being unreasonable, I genuinely don't understand. Situational awareness isn't a buzz phrase. It's a core skill of FPS games, right up there with aiming. Up until 1.8, it wasn't needed because of 360 perma-scan. Now you actually have to think about where the enemy is likely to be and watch your back. If you've ever played Counter Strike, you should know what I mean. If shotguns are really the super OP FOTM you make them out to be, why are they still less popular than STD AR and the GEK, which are generally agreed to be the worst of the rifles by a wide margin? (https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=154096) Also, this is the internet- you don't get to say when I'm done talking. Nerdier than thou
Doshneil Antaro Dem Durrty Boyz Dirt Nap Squad. 258	Posted - 2014.04.08 17:00:00 - [16] - Quote Shotguns are fine, it is ht detection that is the issue. I visually see 3/4 of my rounds make contact with most scouts that "try" to sneak up on me. Out of those it seems only 1 out of 4 rounds actually applies damage. Nerfing and buffing weapons has always rendered them broken. Side note to all you scouts: You are not awesome enough to dodge through a wall of bullets. I've seen you running and getting away as 3-4 players put down concetrated fire and enough rounds impacting your suit to kill 3 heavies, yet you live. TO CCP: Wht the **** hasn't hit detection been fixed or at least attempted to be fixed? I know it is not the Unreal engine, as there are many FPS shooters that run smoothly with it. Find some of the top tier FPS that run it, find out who coded hit detection for them, call them up, and ask them for tips. I'm sure there are many developers that would freely help you with your issues if you just so much as seeked them out and asked. Sage /thread
Temias Mercurial Knights Of Ender Galactic Skyfleet Empire 44	Posted - 2014.04.08 17:09:00 - [17] - Quote Meee One wrote: My reasoning:Bolt pistols do 100+ damage per shot yet have less magazine size than a shotgun. Shotguns even at the MLT level do 400+ damage which is equivalent to a grenade x8. A reduction of 1/2 would partiality end the pandemic of a single shotgun toting scout killing a whole squad. The new size would be 4,still two more than the breach. If a single scout took out your entire squad... dear god you are bad. You have no right to call things OP or FOTM when it's easy to dispose of a single scout. Also, if you follow scouts who are hiding in corners, that's your own fault. People really need to get used to Dust after using scanners for about 7 months... that was a frickin' crutch.
Odigos Ellinas Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation 68	Posted - 2014.04.08 17:16:00 - [18] - Quote Like i said already here: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=151988&find=unread (Yes there is already a discussion about SG) Before the cloak we didn't have enough experience with shotguns from so close. And the main opinion was if he comes close enough with the SG he earned the kill. Now with the cloak its much easier to get close with the SG. After talking today with some scouts in my squad i learned that there is no big deference in damage between the militia and the prototype shotgun. You need 3 shots for a heavy with each one of them. The only difference is the target has more health left between the shots. Smart scouts are running the basic one its the best balance between price/damage/CPU/PG. And with more health left between the shots the chance someone else taking their kill is minimal. Nerfing the shotgun is a must but on a smart way so its not useless. Ideas 1. Reduce the ROF and increase it by tier. 2. Make the basic Magazine to have one shell and increase the shells by tier. The basic idea behind that is that the tier of the shotgun has to play a role like an all the other weapons.
Temias Mercurial Knights Of Ender Galactic Skyfleet Empire 44	Posted - 2014.04.08 17:19:00 - [19] - Quote Odigos Ellinas wrote: Like i said already here: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=151988&find=unread (Yes there is already a discussion about SG) Before the cloak we didn't have enough experience with shotguns from so close. And the main opinion was if he comes close enough with the SG he earned the kill. Now with the cloak its much easier to get close with the SG. After talking today with some scouts in my squad i learned that there is no big deference in damage between the militia and the prototype shotgun. You need 3 shots for a heavy with each one of them. The only difference is the target has more health left between the shots. Smart scouts are running the basic one its the best balance between price/damage/CPU/PG. Nerfing the shotgun is a must but on a smart way so its not useless. Ideas 1. Reduce the ROF and increase it by tier. 2. Make the basic Magazine to have one shell and increase the shells by tier. The basic idea behind that is that the tier of the shotgun has to play a role like an all the other weapons. As I already said in that same thread: Reducing the rate of fire? Yea... any increase in ROF will result in death for the scout, and the death of the shotgun. It's slow enough as it is. One shell is a terrible idea. The breach is good, but if you miss one shot, you'll have to switch to your sidearm, which alerts those with ears and a brain to know where it's coming from. People really need to develop an awareness... OP this, OP that, just learn to play the game people...
Awry Barux Ametat Security Amarr Empire 1696	Posted - 2014.04.08 17:23:00 - [20] - Quote Odigos Ellinas wrote: 1. Reduce the ROF and increase it by tier. That seems reasonable to me. 10% ROF drop for STD, 5% drop for ADV, leave proto where it is. That'll keep the scaling in line with other infantry weapons. Nerdier than thou

poison Diego NECROM0NGERS Caps and Mercs 382	Posted - 2014.04.08 17:26:00 - [21] - Quote you are kidding right? the bolt is a sidearm and the shotgun is a primary weapon. 4 shots are barely enough to kill a STD heavy and you must be a master skillshooter to hit every shot always... this is a ridiculous idea and since more than half of mercs are scouts this will never be agreed on. Why not just put cloaks on ADSs, Forgeguns on scouts and make heavies only be able to use sidearms?
poison Diego NECROM0NGERS Caps and Mercs 382	Posted - 2014.04.08 17:31:00 - [22] - Quote Meee One wrote: Shotguns don't have a sharpshooter skill, what are you talking about? Plus, sharpshooter decreases dispersion, it has no effect on optimal range. At 10m shotguns do about 50% damage, . what?! I feel like they are doing 20-30% max but it probably depends if its my dren or CreoDron(the red one lol) Why not just put cloaks on ADSs, Forgeguns on scouts and make heavies only be able to use sidearms?
Awry Barux Ametat Security Amarr Empire 1697	Posted - 2014.04.08 18:32:00 - [23] - Quote poison Diego wrote: Meee One wrote: Shotguns don't have a sharpshooter skill, what are you talking about? Plus, sharpshooter decreases dispersion, it has no effect on optimal range. At 10m shotguns do about 50% damage, . what?! I feel like they are doing 20-30% max but it probably depends if its my dren or CreoDron(the red one lol) Like I said- 50% IF all pellets hit. 50% damage on 50% of the pellets = 25% damage. Also you're quoting the wrong person, I said that. Nerdier than thou
Dustbunny Durrr ReD or DeaD 188	Posted - 2014.04.08 18:48:00 - [24] - Quote poison Diego wrote: you are kidding right? the bolt is a sidearm and the shotgun is a primary weapon. 4 shots are barely enough to kill a STD heavy and you must be a master skillshooter to hit every shot always... this is a ridiculous idea and since more than half of mercs are scouts this will never be agreed on. I can typically get standard heavies with 3 with my militia shotgun, but I agree with your point. You cannot compare a secondary weapon with a primary weapon, its apples and oranges. Also, the bolt pistol has way more range than a shotgun anyways, so hence it should do less damage (As we all learned in 1.7, a weapon that does loads of damage cough rail rifle cough at great range is quite OP, so the typical tradeoff for damage, is less range). And honestly, am I the only one who thinks that scouts are a nuisance, and can fit a brick tank similar in HP to a medium suit (which they shouldn't be able to), but all in all, aren't OP. At least not in the same league as 1.7 Rail Rifles, or 1.7 Tanks.
poison Diego NECROM0NGERS Caps and Mercs 383	Posted - 2014.04.08 20:41:00 - [25] - Quote Awry Barux wrote: poison Diego wrote: Meee One wrote: Shotguns don't have a sharpshooter skill, what are you talking about? Plus, sharpshooter decreases dispersion, it has no effect on optimal range. At 10m shotguns do about 50% damage, . what?! I feel like they are doing 20-30% max but it probably depends if its my dren or CreoDron(the red one lol) Like I said- 50% IF all pellets hit. 50% damage on 50% of the pellets = 25% damage. Also you're quoting the wrong person, I said that. yea I think I did lol Why not just put cloaks on ADSs, Forgeguns on scouts and make heavies only be able to use sidearms?
Draco Cerberus BurgezzE.T.F General Tso's Alliance 854	Posted - 2014.04.08 20:53:00 - [26] - Quote Meee One wrote: My reasoning:Bolt pistols do 100+ damage per shot yet have less magazine size than a shotgun. Shotguns even at the MLT level do 400+ damage which is equivalent to a grenade x8. A reduction of 1/2 would partiality end the pandemic of a single shotgun toting scout killing a whole squad. The new size would be 4,still two more than the breach. Comparing sidearms to light weapons does not equate in any way. Compare a SMG to a bolt pistol if you want a comparison. LogiGod earns his pips
Eric Del Carlo Inner.Hell 125	Posted - 2014.04.08 21:28:00 - [27] - Quote I hope the people that are QQing about shotguns realize that shotguns had their RoF bonus removed once 1.8 came, which is considered a nerf to every shotgun user I know. Shotguns have horrendous range and the damage scaling for each tier is negligible at best. The real problem lies in the ability to pull off shots before fully decloaking, which really could be easily resolved by waiting for the decloaking animation to finish before any weapon could be fired. The shotgun doesn't deserve to be nerfed, it's the decloaking issue that needs to be looked at. GÖà One of the original scout bastards GÖà
CLONE117 True Pros Forever 757	Posted - 2014.04.08 21:32:00 - [28] - Quote this is such a stupid and probably hate filled idea. mlt vets are eternal. they shall be the bane to proto scrubs everywhere...
deepfried salad gilliam Sanguine Knights 646	Posted - 2014.04.08 21:43:00 - [29] - Quote Meee One wrote: My reasoning:Bolt pistols do 100+ damage per shot yet have less magazine size than a shotgun. Shotguns even at the MLT level do 400+ damage which is equivalent to a grenade x8. A reduction of 1/2 would partiality end the pandemic of a single shotgun toting scout killing a whole squad. The new size would be 4,still two more than the breach. the plasma cannon needs a nerf because of the flaylock It'll help define roles, i promise:)
Hecarim Van Hohen Bullet Cluster Lokun Listamenn 988	Posted - 2014.04.08 21:44:00 - [30] - Quote As a sentinel even I am against your idea, reduced RoF (like mentioned before) would suffice just fine. Over nerf the shotgun and heavies will dominate the field and nobody wants that, nobody. "Now I am become Dev, the locker of threads." -CCP Logibro



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