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Talos Alomar
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
2153
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Posted - 2014.04.08 22:27:00 -
[31] - Quote
deepfried salad gilliam wrote:Meee One wrote:My reasoning:Bolt pistols do 100+ damage per shot yet have less magazine size than a shotgun. Shotguns even at the MLT level do 400+ damage which is equivalent to a grenade x8.
A reduction of 1/2 would partiality end the pandemic of a single shotgun toting scout killing a whole squad.
The new size would be 4,still two more than the breach.
the plasma cannon needs a nerf because of the flaylock
I didn't so much laugh as just expel air forcefully from my nose a few times.
But as far as the OP goes, it's just bad logic.
A single scout killing an entire squad? It happens now and then, but if you let your entire squad get taken down by just one ofanything you've dun goofed.
The shotgun is fine right now, it's the ability to fire out of a cloak that is a bit wonky. Don't nerf my commando because you can't be bothered to cover your squad's back.
I suggest everyone who agrees with OP to run a cloaked shottie scout. You'll learn how to counter them by learning the tactics they use. I have very little trouble with cloaked scouts when I'm running my Gal commando. There's nothing like blasting one of them out of their cloak with a single shotgun blast.
Gal-mando. Because the best sidearm is a shotgun.
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Paul Ellinas
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
52
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Posted - 2014.04.08 23:11:00 -
[32] - Quote
Temias Mercurial wrote:Odigos Ellinas wrote:Like i said already here: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=151988&find=unread(Yes there is already a discussion about SG) Before the cloak we didn't have enough experience with shotguns from so close. And the main opinion was if he comes close enough with the SG he earned the kill. Now with the cloak its much easier to get close with the SG. After talking today with some scouts in my squad i learned that there is no big deference in damage between the militia and the prototype shotgun. You need 3 shots for a heavy with each one of them. The only difference is the target has more health left between the shots. Smart scouts are running the basic one its the best balance between price/damage/CPU/PG. Nerfing the shotgun is a must but on a smart way so its not useless. Ideas 1. Reduce the ROF and increase it by tier. 2. Make the basic Magazine to have one shell and increase the shells by tier. The basic idea behind that is that the tier of the shotgun has to play a role like an all the other weapons. As I already said in that same thread: Reducing the rate of fire? Yea... any increase in ROF will result in death for the scout, and the death of the shotgun. It's slow enough as it is. One shell is a terrible idea. The breach is good, but if you miss one shot, you'll have to switch to your sidearm, which alerts those with ears and a brain to know where it's coming from. People really need to develop an awareness... OP this, OP that, just learn to play the game people...
You are missing the point here i am talking about to change the lower tier SG and let the prototype as they are now. It is not fair that a militia SG can do the same work as a prototype SG and all the other weapons need to be played on higher tier to have better results.
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Temias Mercurial
Knights Of Ender Galactic Skyfleet Empire
47
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Posted - 2014.04.08 23:20:00 -
[33] - Quote
Paul Ellinas wrote:Temias Mercurial wrote:Odigos Ellinas wrote:Like i said already here: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=151988&find=unread(Yes there is already a discussion about SG) Before the cloak we didn't have enough experience with shotguns from so close. And the main opinion was if he comes close enough with the SG he earned the kill. Now with the cloak its much easier to get close with the SG. After talking today with some scouts in my squad i learned that there is no big deference in damage between the militia and the prototype shotgun. You need 3 shots for a heavy with each one of them. The only difference is the target has more health left between the shots. Smart scouts are running the basic one its the best balance between price/damage/CPU/PG. Nerfing the shotgun is a must but on a smart way so its not useless. Ideas 1. Reduce the ROF and increase it by tier. 2. Make the basic Magazine to have one shell and increase the shells by tier. The basic idea behind that is that the tier of the shotgun has to play a role like an all the other weapons. As I already said in that same thread: Reducing the rate of fire? Yea... any increase in ROF will result in death for the scout, and the death of the shotgun. It's slow enough as it is. One shell is a terrible idea. The breach is good, but if you miss one shot, you'll have to switch to your sidearm, which alerts those with ears and a brain to know where it's coming from. People really need to develop an awareness... OP this, OP that, just learn to play the game people... You are missing the point here i am talking about to change the lower tier SG and let the prototype as they are now. It is not fair that a militia SG can do the same work as a prototype SG and all the other weapons need to be played on higher tier to have better results.
Std rail guns are quite sufficient in my opinion, compared to prototype. I don't see the problem... |
X7 lion
SWAMPERIUM
150
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Posted - 2014.04.08 23:22:00 -
[34] - Quote
I KILL YOU ALL WITH KNIVES!
Immortality will not protect you from me. I am death incarnate, you will die.
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Matticus Monk
Ordus Trismegistus
1599
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Posted - 2014.04.08 23:36:00 -
[35] - Quote
Eric Del Carlo wrote:I hope the people that are QQing about shotguns realize that shotguns had their RoF bonus removed once 1.8 came, which is considered a nerf to every shotgun user I know. Shotguns have horrendous range and the damage scaling for each tier is negligible at best. The real problem lies in the ability to pull off shots before fully decloaking, which really could be easily resolved by waiting for the decloaking animation to finish before any weapon could be fired. The shotgun doesn't deserve to be nerfed, it's the decloaking issue that needs to be looked at.
Pretty much this, exactly.
Double posting like a Kaiser.
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bogeyman m
Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic
166
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Posted - 2014.04.09 04:16:00 -
[36] - Quote
Meee One wrote:Awry Barux wrote:a. The comparison with the bolt pistol is invalid. One is a sidearm with a 50m optimal, the other is a light weapon with a 5m optimal. b. If a single shotgun scout can kill your whole squad, that's your own fault. A heavy can melt a scout in less time than it takes to get a second shotgun round off. A. 5m optimal? Someone doesn't have their sharpshooter maxed. If you did you'd know it's 10m optimal easily. B. Scouts + bunny hopping + bad hit detection = godmode You managed to avoid my point entirely. C. Scouts + bunny hopping + bad hit detection + cloaks = ungodlymode
Duct tape 2.0 > Have WD-40; will travel.
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Banjo Robertson
Bullet Cluster Lokun Listamenn
135
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Posted - 2014.04.09 04:21:00 -
[37] - Quote
Meee One wrote:My reasoning:Bolt pistols do 100+ damage per shot yet have less magazine size than a shotgun. Shotguns even at the MLT level do 400+ damage which is equivalent to a grenade x8.
A reduction of 1/2 would partiality end the pandemic of a single shotgun toting scout killing a whole squad.
The new size would be 4,still two more than the breach.
Don't see any reasons to back up your idea for reducing the magazine size. You list what you think are reasons, but they aren't really reasons. |
bogeyman m
Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic
166
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Posted - 2014.04.09 05:00:00 -
[38] - Quote
Awry Barux wrote:Meee One wrote:Awry Barux wrote:Meee One wrote:Awry Barux wrote:a. The comparison with the bolt pistol is invalid. One is a sidearm with a 50m optimal, the other is a light weapon with a 5m optimal. b. If a single shotgun scout can kill your whole squad, that's your own fault. A heavy can melt a scout in less time than it takes to get a second shotgun round off. A.5m optimal? Someone doesn't have their sharpshooter maxed. If you did you'd know it's 10m optimal easily. B. Scouts + bunny hopping + bad hit detection = godmode You managed to avoid my point entirely. a. Shotguns don't have a sharpshooter skill, what are you talking about? Plus, sharpshooter decreases dispersion, it has no effect on optimal range. At 10m shotguns do about 50% damage, and even less once you account for the fact that not all the pellets will hit at that range. b. I gun down shotgun scouts at close range regularly with a magsec or a scrambler pistol, from 10-15m away because the shotgun tickles at that range. Get better. Bunny hopping makes them easier to hit because they can't change their trajectory or speed for a solid second. c. What point did I avoid? I addressed your reasoning for the nerf through comparison to another weapon. The "pandemic" of a single scout killing a whole squad isn't a problem for most people- all you need is a little communication or situational awareness and the scouts melt like butter. If you mean the comparison to the breach shotgun, that gun is nearly universally considered UP. This clip size nerf is unwarranted. Get used to the fact that weapons other than rifles are viable now. Scouts of 1.8 are the tankers of 1.7 Unreasonable in every form,your posts prove this. "situational awareness" is the go-to buzz phrase they use to berate you trying to cast suspicion upon your gaming skills instead of the OP nature of their class. We're done talking,go somewhere else with your FOTM worship. Please, explain to me where I'm being unreasonable, I genuinely don't understand. Situational awareness isn't a buzz phrase. It's a core skill of FPS games, right up there with aiming. Up until 1.8, it wasn't needed because of 360 perma-scan. Now you actually have to think about where the enemy is likely to be and watch your back. If you've ever played Counter Strike, you should know what I mean. If shotguns are really the super OP FOTM you make them out to be, why are they still less popular than STD AR and the GEK, which are generally agreed to be the worst of the rifles by a wide margin? (https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=154096) Also, this is the internet- you don't get to say when I'm done talking.
I'm going to weigh in on a couple of points here. First, full disclosure: I feel the current COMBINATION of invisible [any suit] + shotgun is very OP.
'Situational awareness' is a term that is a dismissive cop-out toward fairplay by those who don't play other roles than assault-types (light, medium or heavy). As an example, an AVer using forge or swarms hardly has any opportunity to defend themselves while they are waiting multiple seconds for a target lock - giving plenty of time for a(n invisible) scout-type to sneek up and 2-shot kill them before they can even turn around. The same is true for a LogiBro having to fumble around with their cludgy equipment wheel trying to get a rep tool lock - leaving lots of time for someone to sneek up while they are distracted. Yes, stealth attacking is a valid tactic, but the current blanket use of this phrase is often inappropriate.
Also, although I haven't entirely decided how to best interpret the weapon purchase popularity list you referenced, it could easily be argued that weapons of certain types are purchased more frequently because THEY ARE DYING FASTER and have to be topped up more often. In addition, there was also an email promo a couple of months back that provided players with 100 free advanced shotguns, so that could still be having an effect on current purchase numbers.
Duct tape 2.0 > Have WD-40; will travel.
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Paul Ellinas
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
53
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Posted - 2014.04.09 13:32:00 -
[39] - Quote
Temias Mercurial wrote:Paul Ellinas wrote:Temias Mercurial wrote:Odigos Ellinas wrote:Like i said already here: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=151988&find=unread(Yes there is already a discussion about SG) Before the cloak we didn't have enough experience with shotguns from so close. And the main opinion was if he comes close enough with the SG he earned the kill. Now with the cloak its much easier to get close with the SG. After talking today with some scouts in my squad i learned that there is no big deference in damage between the militia and the prototype shotgun. You need 3 shots for a heavy with each one of them. The only difference is the target has more health left between the shots. Smart scouts are running the basic one its the best balance between price/damage/CPU/PG. Nerfing the shotgun is a must but on a smart way so its not useless. Ideas 1. Reduce the ROF and increase it by tier. 2. Make the basic Magazine to have one shell and increase the shells by tier. The basic idea behind that is that the tier of the shotgun has to play a role like an all the other weapons. As I already said in that same thread: Reducing the rate of fire? Yea... any increase in ROF will result in death for the scout, and the death of the shotgun. It's slow enough as it is. One shell is a terrible idea. The breach is good, but if you miss one shot, you'll have to switch to your sidearm, which alerts those with ears and a brain to know where it's coming from. People really need to develop an awareness... OP this, OP that, just learn to play the game people... You are missing the point here i am talking about to change the lower tier SG and let the prototype as they are now. It is not fair that a militia SG can do the same work as a prototype SG and all the other weapons need to be played on higher tier to have better results. Std rail guns are quite sufficient in my opinion, compared to prototype. I don't see the problem...
There is a big deference between the railgun tiers. You need more hits with STD railgun to destroy a gunlogi then with a prototype Railgun. With the SG (any tier) you need 3hits for a heavy. |
poison Diego
NECROM0NGERS Caps and Mercs
383
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Posted - 2014.04.09 15:36:00 -
[40] - Quote
what are you talking about? the proto shotgun does way more damage and has WAY more range(feels like it)
Why not just put cloaks on ADSs, Forgeguns on scouts and make heavies only be able to use sidearms?
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Temias Mercurial
Knights Of Ender Galactic Skyfleet Empire
49
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Posted - 2014.04.09 15:39:00 -
[41] - Quote
Paul Ellinas wrote:Temias Mercurial wrote:Paul Ellinas wrote:Temias Mercurial wrote:Odigos Ellinas wrote:Like i said already here: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=151988&find=unread(Yes there is already a discussion about SG) Before the cloak we didn't have enough experience with shotguns from so close. And the main opinion was if he comes close enough with the SG he earned the kill. Now with the cloak its much easier to get close with the SG. After talking today with some scouts in my squad i learned that there is no big deference in damage between the militia and the prototype shotgun. You need 3 shots for a heavy with each one of them. The only difference is the target has more health left between the shots. Smart scouts are running the basic one its the best balance between price/damage/CPU/PG. Nerfing the shotgun is a must but on a smart way so its not useless. Ideas 1. Reduce the ROF and increase it by tier. 2. Make the basic Magazine to have one shell and increase the shells by tier. The basic idea behind that is that the tier of the shotgun has to play a role like an all the other weapons. As I already said in that same thread: Reducing the rate of fire? Yea... any increase in ROF will result in death for the scout, and the death of the shotgun. It's slow enough as it is. One shell is a terrible idea. The breach is good, but if you miss one shot, you'll have to switch to your sidearm, which alerts those with ears and a brain to know where it's coming from. People really need to develop an awareness... OP this, OP that, just learn to play the game people... You are missing the point here i am talking about to change the lower tier SG and let the prototype as they are now. It is not fair that a militia SG can do the same work as a prototype SG and all the other weapons need to be played on higher tier to have better results. Std rail guns are quite sufficient in my opinion, compared to prototype. I don't see the problem... There is a big deference between the railgun tiers. You need more hits with STD railgun to destroy a gunlogi then with a prototype Railgun. With the SG (any tier) you need 3hits for a heavy.
Damage mods will slice through them, hardener or not. I have done this several times...
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Odigos Ellinas
Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation
72
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Posted - 2014.04.09 15:43:00 -
[42] - Quote
Ok so make STD SG to need damage mods to.
And for them who did't understand it. SG have different dmg through the tier but in the difference is to small the hits needed to take a opponent down are the same for any tier. |
noob cavman
Escrow Removal and Acquisition Dirt Nap Squad.
1188
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Posted - 2014.04.09 16:41:00 -
[43] - Quote
Odigos Ellinas wrote:Ok so make STD SG to need damage mods to.
And for them who did't understand it. SG have different dmg through the tier but in the difference is to small the hits needed to take a opponent down are the same for any tier.
Crg is the highest you really need to go when using the shotgun. unless its the breech, that allotek is niiiiice.
I want to be a caveman!
Ccp: DENIED YOU DRUNK
Gö+GöüGö+ n+¦pâ+(`-ö´)n+ën+¦ Gö+GöüGö+
Jollys quirky inconsistent sidekick.
dem spandex yo
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