DUST Search - Allowing EVE players to Give Dust Players isk

Maken Tosch wrote:

Spartacus Dust wrote:

Well DELT I know you're anti one universe//one war, you want dust to be it's own game and have nothing to do with EVE and want to turn DUST into COD, but let's be realistic.

EVE and DUST both exist in New Eden, they should share similar things, like a market, and the ability for me to pay not only my own mercs but other mercs to do things for me :)

I'm a free market guy, and those of you who study the free market know that it eventually balances itself out. they need to open the market and let the isk flow, there's no reason why I shouldn't be paying mercs for their services with EVE isk.

I want a free market as well between Eve and Dust. Hell, that's part of CCP's 5-year plan as they announced back in Fanfest 2013. But being realistic here we know that this will take time. And the reason here has less to do with Eve hurting Dust and more to do with Dust hurting Eve if the Dust economy is implemented incorrectly. Keep in mind that Eve's economy is a huge beast that is delicate at the same time. Speculation, regional monopolies, economic interdictions, scamming, null-sec/low-sec warfare, mining, invention, production, freight deliveries, etc. all factor into the secondary market in both major and subtle ways in Eve.

The point here is that Dust's economy needs to be done correctly and in phases. First phase should obviously let us do simple trade-window transactions between two players for those of us who like to sell our excess BPOs and unwanted officer gear. This phase should also deal with the issues present in Planetary Conquest. The next phase should bring in the early stages of resource gathering with maybe an implementation of Eve-Dust ISK transfers with Eve players handling the production side of things. The final phase should see the full implementation of the market window allowing Dust players to establish system-wide and region-wide markets with the ability to pay someone else to move it for them.

But again, this is something best left to CCP's in-house economist who obviously has 10 years active experience with Eve Online monstrous economy.

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Spartacus Dust NECROM0NGERS Caps and Mercs 291	Posted - 2014.04.08 02:41:00 - [1] - Quote Would this be a problem, maybe in the past it would've, but considering that one alliance owns all the wealth (GOD I FEEL LIKE A 99% HIPPY) I don't see it as a problem now. using a third party to transfer eve isk to dust isk is creative and smart, but impractical for trust issues, ratios, etc... Twitter @Matthew_Dust Executor of Caps and Mercs Alliance.
Dunk Mujunk RestlessSpirits 745	Posted - 2014.04.08 02:44:00 - [2] - Quote Lol no. Already happened. Did not work as intended (how did that suprise anyone). Switzerland is small and neutral. We're more like Germany. Ambitious and misunderstood. Futurama
Mossellia Delt Militaires Sans Jeux 1179	Posted - 2014.04.08 02:44:00 - [3] - Quote Yes, this is still a problem, I could literally manufacture ISK for myself then, even worse, I could have someone transfer billions to me. If you don't see this as a problem, then wow man, just wow. Join the Channel - CPM1 Candidates - Get to know who's running. Delt for CPM1
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 9313	Posted - 2014.04.08 02:50:00 - [4] - Quote His point is understandable..... by exploiting a broken system a certain select groups now do own the majority of wealthy and will never have to worry about ISK again...ever. Now I cannot complain... I could have bandwagoned....nor am I complaining.....but unfortunately Dusts current flow of ISK forces the poor into direct conflict with the rich....... with no other way of garnering more ISK. "Get thine Swag out of my face! Next you'll be writing #YOLOswagforJamyl in all your posts!" -Dagger Two
Doctor Day THE SUPERHEROS 38	Posted - 2014.04.08 02:52:00 - [5] - Quote 50% of rich foaks are logi's and the other 50% is pc Obvious troll is Obvious
Dunk Mujunk RestlessSpirits 747	Posted - 2014.04.08 02:52:00 - [6] - Quote cough cough alternate PSN accounts cough Switzerland is small and neutral. We're more like Germany. Ambitious and misunderstood. Futurama
Vell0cet Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad. 1384	Posted - 2014.04.08 02:59:00 - [7] - Quote This does need to happen at some point. I expect CCP to levy steep taxes though to keep the relative value of items in each game balanced. Best PvE idea ever!
Shion Typhon Intara Direct Action Caldari State 463	Posted - 2014.04.08 03:28:00 - [8] - Quote The "economy" in Dust is already so completely busted only a full reset can fix it, so why not, let the chortles commence.
Lorhak Gannarsein Science For Death 2659	Posted - 2014.04.08 03:33:00 - [9] - Quote Doctor Day wrote: 50% of rich foaks are logi's and the other 50% is pc Turns out my PRO logi is 250k, my ADV logi is 75k and my STD logi is worthless, so no. ak.0 4 LYFE je ne regrette rien
Selinate deux Ametat Security Amarr Empire 131	Posted - 2014.04.08 03:34:00 - [10] - Quote Shion Typhon wrote: The "economy" in Dust is already so completely busted only a full reset can fix it, so why not, let the chortles commence. What economy? All of the prices are already fixed. It's more like counter strike at this point, and the whole selling point of this game is a joke because of it. If you allow this to happen, then everyone who plays Eve is going to funnel isk to their Dust character. When that happens, since there are amounts of isk owned by players in Eve that make Dust players look poor in comparison, then they'll just buy proto suits and never worry about going negative in a match. Then let the free market come in where all of our stuff is produced and bought by players. Then let the prices of protos jump out of everyone's range so quickly because of Eve players donating isk to their players that no one else can ever afford it if they don't play Eve. A solution would be to remove tiers altogether and just have specialties and variants. I honestly think that's the only solution to this. Tiers are already breaking Dust game play and making it boring for newer players. Might as well remove them altogether and make it about how good the player is and not how old their Eve toon is.

SgtMajSquish MLBJ Consolidated Dust 95	Posted - 2014.04.08 03:41:00 - [11] - Quote Shion Typhon wrote: The "economy" in Dust is already so completely busted only a full reset can fix it, so why not, let the chortles commence. I agree. Plus ISK is the only thing not affected by purchases. A full ISK wipe would be perfect. The only proper way to do it is to not give any heads up beforehand otherwise corps will heavily stock up on supplies Making Friends And Enemies Everyday
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 7842	Posted - 2014.04.08 03:44:00 - [12] - Quote Selinate deux wrote: Shion Typhon wrote: The "economy" in Dust is already so completely busted only a full reset can fix it, so why not, let the chortles commence. What economy? All of the prices are already fixed. It's more like counter strike at this point, and the whole selling point of this game is a joke because of it. If you allow this to happen, then everyone who plays Eve is going to funnel isk to their Dust character. When that happens, since there are amounts of isk owned by players in Eve that make Dust players look poor in comparison, then they'll just buy proto suits and never worry about going negative in a match. Then let the free market come in where all of our stuff is produced and bought by players. Then let the prices of protos jump out of everyone's range so quickly because of Eve players donating isk to their players that no one else can ever afford it if they don't play Eve. A solution would be to remove tiers altogether and just have specialties and variants. I honestly think that's the only solution to this. Tiers are already breaking Dust game play and making it boring for newer players. Might as well remove them altogether and make it about how good the player is and not how old their Eve toon is. This is something only CCP's in-house economist can decide on. He is the only one who knows when and how we should approach this, not the community. Dedicated Scout // Ninja Knifer Everything I know about the Caldari I learned at Nouvelle Rouvenor
Selinate deux Ametat Security Amarr Empire 131	Posted - 2014.04.08 03:44:00 - [13] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Selinate deux wrote: Shion Typhon wrote: The "economy" in Dust is already so completely busted only a full reset can fix it, so why not, let the chortles commence. What economy? All of the prices are already fixed. It's more like counter strike at this point, and the whole selling point of this game is a joke because of it. If you allow this to happen, then everyone who plays Eve is going to funnel isk to their Dust character. When that happens, since there are amounts of isk owned by players in Eve that make Dust players look poor in comparison, then they'll just buy proto suits and never worry about going negative in a match. Then let the free market come in where all of our stuff is produced and bought by players. Then let the prices of protos jump out of everyone's range so quickly because of Eve players donating isk to their players that no one else can ever afford it if they don't play Eve. A solution would be to remove tiers altogether and just have specialties and variants. I honestly think that's the only solution to this. Tiers are already breaking Dust game play and making it boring for newer players. Might as well remove them altogether and make it about how good the player is and not how old their Eve toon is. This is something only CCP's in-house economist can decide on. He is the only one who knows when and how we should approach this, not the community. Congratulations for figuring out that CCP is able to make changes to the game and not us. I'm sure that was difficult.
The Robot Devil Brave Bunnies Brave Collective 2280	Posted - 2014.04.08 04:10:00 - [14] - Quote I don't think it would break the game as much as a lot of people do. Large corps would just buy BPO and make the goods to give out for free to infantry. Large, rich groups will always have more and be able to do more because everyone wants to be rich and many move to the corp that can pay the most and there is great power in high numbers. If those numbers are well organized then they are hard to counter or stop. Small groups will almost always have it tougher than a large group. We all want total integration in to EVE but I don't think you all want it like you think you do. What if you couldn't find your favorite suit and when you did it was 15 jumps from your location, you hire the pilot to go and get your suits for a total of 1M ISK for 15 suits. Lets also say that pilot has to fly through three low security systems on the way there and then the same three on the way back. That is 30 jumps and we'll say the average time is 45 seconds a jump. That is 22.5 minutes just to get there and back as fast as they can. Are you willing to wait 23 minutes for your suit? What if that pilot gets popped in one of those low sec systems or ganked outside your station? You just lost 1M ISK and waited 30 minutes for nothing. Moving ISK between the game isn't going to break it as bad as everyone thinks, it won't be any worse than it is on the New Eden side. Yes people can buy up the market but there will always those whom undercut prices, the market and ISK transfers would help, in my opinion, more than it would hurt. Prices will go up but it would probably put a huge dent in proto stomping but with the way matches are created and without being able to move around, choose your home, choose what system to fight in, choose what sec stat to fight in and a host of other reasons then it probably wouldn't be doable. We have absolutely no choices so why would it matter if I have 50B ISK or 50M ISK. No market and no choices means vast sums of ISK are meaningless unless you are bad at managing your wallet or just starting out. "One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production." Raoul Duke
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 7843	Posted - 2014.04.08 04:14:00 - [15] - Quote Selinate deux wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: Selinate deux wrote: Shion Typhon wrote: The "economy" in Dust is already so completely busted only a full reset can fix it, so why not, let the chortles commence. What economy? All of the prices are already fixed. It's more like counter strike at this point, and the whole selling point of this game is a joke because of it. If you allow this to happen, then everyone who plays Eve is going to funnel isk to their Dust character. When that happens, since there are amounts of isk owned by players in Eve that make Dust players look poor in comparison, then they'll just buy proto suits and never worry about going negative in a match. Then let the free market come in where all of our stuff is produced and bought by players. Then let the prices of protos jump out of everyone's range so quickly because of Eve players donating isk to their players that no one else can ever afford it if they don't play Eve. A solution would be to remove tiers altogether and just have specialties and variants. I honestly think that's the only solution to this. Tiers are already breaking Dust game play and making it boring for newer players. Might as well remove them altogether and make it about how good the player is and not how old their Eve toon is. This is something only CCP's in-house economist can decide on. He is the only one who knows when and how we should approach this, not the community. Congratulations for figuring out that CCP is able to make changes to basic mechanics of the game and not us. I'm sure that was difficult. CaptainPichardFacePalm.jpg Dedicated Scout // Ninja Knifer Everything I know about the Caldari I learned at Nouvelle Rouvenor
The Robot Devil Brave Bunnies Brave Collective 2280	Posted - 2014.04.08 04:16:00 - [16] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: CaptainPichardFacePalm.jpg I wonder sometimes if he knows how popular those images are with people like us and in social media in general. "One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production." Raoul Duke
Spartacus Dust NECROM0NGERS Caps and Mercs 292	Posted - 2014.04.08 04:20:00 - [17] - Quote Well DELT I know you're anti one universe//one war, you want dust to be it's own game and have nothing to do with EVE and want to turn DUST into COD, but let's be realistic. EVE and DUST both exist in New Eden, they should share similar things, like a market, and the ability for me to pay not only my own mercs but other mercs to do things for me :) I'm a free market guy, and those of you who study the free market know that it eventually balances itself out. they need to open the market and let the isk flow, there's no reason why I shouldn't be paying mercs for their services with EVE isk. Twitter @Matthew_Dust Executor of Caps and Mercs Alliance.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 7846	Posted - 2014.04.08 04:39:00 - [18] - Quote Spartacus Dust wrote: Well DELT I know you're anti one universe//one war, you want dust to be it's own game and have nothing to do with EVE and want to turn DUST into COD, but let's be realistic. EVE and DUST both exist in New Eden, they should share similar things, like a market, and the ability for me to pay not only my own mercs but other mercs to do things for me :) I'm a free market guy, and those of you who study the free market know that it eventually balances itself out. they need to open the market and let the isk flow, there's no reason why I shouldn't be paying mercs for their services with EVE isk. I want a free market as well between Eve and Dust. Hell, that's part of CCP's 5-year plan as they announced back in Fanfest 2013. But being realistic here we know that this will take time. And the reason here has less to do with Eve hurting Dust and more to do with Dust hurting Eve if the Dust economy is implemented incorrectly. Keep in mind that Eve's economy is a huge beast that is delicate at the same time. Speculation, regional monopolies, economic interdictions, scamming, null-sec/low-sec warfare, mining, invention, production, freight deliveries, etc. all factor into the secondary market in both major and subtle ways in Eve. The point here is that Dust's economy needs to be done correctly and in phases. First phase should obviously let us do simple trade-window transactions between two players for those of us who like to sell our excess BPOs and unwanted officer gear. This phase should also deal with the issues present in Planetary Conquest. The next phase should bring in the early stages of resource gathering with maybe an implementation of Eve-Dust ISK transfers with Eve players handling the production side of things. The final phase should see the full implementation of the market window allowing Dust players to establish system-wide and region-wide markets with the ability to pay someone else to move it for them. But again, this is something best left to CCP's in-house economist who obviously has 10 years active experience with Eve Online monstrous economy. Dedicated Scout // Ninja Knifer Everything I know about the Caldari I learned at Nouvelle Rouvenor
Spartacus Dust NECROM0NGERS Caps and Mercs 292	Posted - 2014.04.08 05:28:00 - [19] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Spartacus Dust wrote: Well DELT I know you're anti one universe//one war, you want dust to be it's own game and have nothing to do with EVE and want to turn DUST into COD, but let's be realistic. EVE and DUST both exist in New Eden, they should share similar things, like a market, and the ability for me to pay not only my own mercs but other mercs to do things for me :) I'm a free market guy, and those of you who study the free market know that it eventually balances itself out. they need to open the market and let the isk flow, there's no reason why I shouldn't be paying mercs for their services with EVE isk. I want a free market as well between Eve and Dust. Hell, that's part of CCP's 5-year plan as they announced back in Fanfest 2013. But being realistic here we know that this will take time. And the reason here has less to do with Eve hurting Dust and more to do with Dust hurting Eve if the Dust economy is implemented incorrectly. Keep in mind that Eve's economy is a huge beast that is delicate at the same time. Speculation, regional monopolies, economic interdictions, scamming, null-sec/low-sec warfare, mining, invention, production, freight deliveries, etc. all factor into the secondary market in both major and subtle ways in Eve. The point here is that Dust's economy needs to be done correctly and in phases. First phase should obviously let us do simple trade-window transactions between two players for those of us who like to sell our excess BPOs and unwanted officer gear. This phase should also deal with the issues present in Planetary Conquest. The next phase should bring in the early stages of resource gathering with maybe an implementation of Eve-Dust ISK transfers with Eve players handling the production side of things. The final phase should see the full implementation of the market window allowing Dust players to establish system-wide and region-wide markets with the ability to pay someone else to move it for them. But again, this is something best left to CCP's in-house economist who obviously has 10 years active experience with Eve Online monstrous economy. On the other hand. They could put in buy orders, dust players could get bpo's and bpc's and make things by purchasing tritanium, they could use stations to build things, players with districts could manufacture them at cheaper cost. Twitter @Matthew_Dust Executor of Caps and Mercs Alliance.
Beld Errmon 1577	Posted - 2014.04.08 06:44:00 - [20] - Quote heh if I could transfer eve isk to dust my corp wouldn't need to own 1/4 of MH i could fund the entire corp solo, it probably wouldn't be a good thing. Rise and rise again until lambs become lions.

Spartacus Dust NECROM0NGERS Caps and Mercs 293	Posted - 2014.04.08 06:51:00 - [21] - Quote really you don't think other people would fund their corps and still fight you? Twitter @Matthew_Dust Executor of Caps and Mercs Alliance.
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 12119	Posted - 2014.04.08 06:58:00 - [22] - Quote Considering many EVE players have sums of ISK that exceed the value of all the clones in Molden Heath, I don't think this is exactly a good 'solution'. You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake. EUrobro
Captain Africa Clone1 GRIM MARCH D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 163	Posted - 2014.04.08 12:20:00 - [23] - Quote logged in just for this thread .... been an eve player for 5 years, still got the t shirt and tattoo ! For a small to medium size corp in Eve were up there making ISK in a wormhole with pi. Our potential is about 3 to 5 bil a month in profit. Its just the mega alliances and coalitions that really owns enough isk to buy a country. Lets say with 5 bil a month Dust budget we can really compete with top Dust corps in PC. Now that is a win win situation for most small to medium size corps in Dust. With the amount of clones getting killed in Dust ...its exactly the type of ISK sink needed for Eve and the free market WILL stabilize the supply and demand to an equilibrium. Where necessary CCP could just intervene until things have stabilized. Oh and trust me when I say the entrepreneurs in Eve will make sure you have suits in a station ....np. The biggest problem I see is that mid to low level suits will become obsolete for all those players with max skills...for a suit set. Join the March ,see the universe , meet interesting people and kill them G£¬ http://grimmarch.wix.com/grim-march-ver1
DaNizzle4shizle Pradox One Proficiency V. 757	Posted - 2014.04.08 12:42:00 - [24] - Quote it would be waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay to O.P. unless there was an in-game balance why you always be locking meh thread! µµ(Ò_Ó)µµ
The dark cloud The Rainbow Effect Negative-Feedback 2719	Posted - 2014.04.08 12:53:00 - [25] - Quote Hmm lets just recap this a bit: -i can make 30 million ISK within like 20 mins of eve. Thats more then enough to fund a dust char for like a whole month. CCP is not going to allow that simply cause it would ruin their buisness model for dust. And i explain you how this works: -rich players stomp n00bs non stop with high end equipment -n00bs get upset and frustrated -n00bs then go and buy AUR to fund AUR suits This is basically how it works, frustrate the majority of players and then they buy stuff stright from CCP. Allowing enormous sums of ISK to be transfered from eve would crash this ecconomical system. Sure there is no ecconomy between players but there surely is ecconomy for CCP. I shall show you a world, a world which you cant imagine, a world full off butthurt n00bs at the other end of my gun
Captain Africa Clone1 GRIM MARCH D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 164	Posted - 2014.04.08 12:53:00 - [26] - Quote DaNizzle4shizle wrote: it would be waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay to O.P. unless there was an in-game balance "unless there was an in-game balance" = allowing dust players to buy plex should fix this... Join the March ,see the universe , meet interesting people and kill them G£¬ http://grimmarch.wix.com/grim-march-ver1
Captain Africa Clone1 GRIM MARCH D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 164	Posted - 2014.04.08 12:58:00 - [27] - Quote The dark cloud wrote: Hmm lets just recap this a bit: -i can make 30 million ISK within like 20 mins of eve. Thats more then enough to fund a dust char for like a whole month. CCP is not going to allow that simply cause it would ruin their buisness model for dust. And i explain you how this works: -rich players stomp n00bs non stop with high end equipment -n00bs get upset and frustrated -n00bs then go and buy AUR to fund AUR suits This is basically how it works, frustrate the majority of players and then they buy stuff stright from CCP. Allowing enormous sums of ISK to be transfered from eve would crash this ecconomical system. Sure there is no ecconomy between players but there surely is ecconomy for CCP. CCP buisness model should change from "gear to skill" Everyone would want to train faster ..make suits and weapons even more specialized so it would take months to get that t2 variant... Join the March ,see the universe , meet interesting people and kill them G£¬ http://grimmarch.wix.com/grim-march-ver1
The dark cloud The Rainbow Effect Negative-Feedback 2719	Posted - 2014.04.08 13:43:00 - [28] - Quote Captain Africa Clone1 wrote: The dark cloud wrote: Hmm lets just recap this a bit: -i can make 30 million ISK within like 20 mins of eve. Thats more then enough to fund a dust char for like a whole month. CCP is not going to allow that simply cause it would ruin their buisness model for dust. And i explain you how this works: -rich players stomp n00bs non stop with high end equipment -n00bs get upset and frustrated -n00bs then go and buy AUR to fund AUR suits This is basically how it works, frustrate the majority of players and then they buy stuff stright from CCP. Allowing enormous sums of ISK to be transfered from eve would crash this ecconomical system. Sure there is no ecconomy between players but there surely is ecconomy for CCP. CCP buisness model should change from "gear to skill" Everyone would want to train faster ..make suits and weapons even more specialized so it would take months to get that t2 variant...that is not necessary more op but cheaper than the proto version.. There is such a huge market out there ..CCP should stop focusing on the small picture and start looking at the big picture ...the meta game should work it self out all together..when we have 50 -100 k player base..it has the potential ! Are you nuts? Even longer to get decent stuff? Hell no that would suck for new players even more. I shall show you a world, a world which you cant imagine, a world full off butthurt n00bs at the other end of my gun
21yrOld Knight Proficiency V. 653	Posted - 2014.04.08 13:49:00 - [29] - Quote Conversion rates are currently at between 6:1 and 3:1. There should be tax that would cause isk exchange between dust and eve to be at similar ratios. Mike Ruan Said i was Dust Famous! Did he just talk in #'s Volunteer member of the Arkombine, but i don't want out.
TechMechMeds SWAMPERIUM 2989	Posted - 2014.04.08 14:03:00 - [30] - Quote I support this. Its not like the game isn't buggered already. If you know what a telefrag match is, then I love you. Dust for over a year, gaming for over 18 and counting.



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