DUST Search - A simple way to balance the "1.8 FOTM"

CRNWLLC wrote:

I think the problem is best solved in two ways (ie, both of these need to happen):

1. "Switching to any other equipment, weapon or throwing a grenade will deactivate the cloak." As the dev blog said, this is how cloaks are supposed to work. If cloaks are changed so they immediately and completely deactivate as soon as another piece of equipment or weapon was in hand, we wouldn't have this problem

2. Watch the animation at the bottom of the dev blog (linked above)--if cloakers had to stand in one spot like morons for 1.5 seconds while deactivating their cloak, I guarantee we'd stop seeing uncloak+OHK. Adding this animation every time a cloak deactivates would force users to use them more intelligently, preventing them from gank-spamming.

A third solution, though not as critical as the former two, is to remove the profile dampening effect of activated cloaks. As I explain more here, granting a bonus to profile dampening not only unnecessarily conflates two stealth tactics (visual + radar), it doesn't make sense that an activated, running piece of electronic equipment (ie, the cloak) decreases noise or EM radiation. The additional bonus to profile makes even less sense when considering scout suits also received more slots, enabling them to more easily fit an extra profile dampener.

Basically, cloaks are broken. They're not working as advertised, and that's the story. CCP just needs to fix them.

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Nitrobeacon Freek Coalition Freek Alliance 246	Posted - 2014.04.07 17:11:00 - [1] - Quote So everyone is saying that cloaks are too effective, especially when combined with a shotgun scout. So here's what I think, the main reason why people are annoyed is because of the fact that with cloak, you will always get the first shot, this is especially game breaking when using any OHK potential weapons, whether it be nova knives (yes I said it) or shotguns. Now you could tell people to be more aware, but this will never work, some people are just blind. That being said, I propose boosting their awareness, no nerfs, just make it so that whenever a guy have their cloak active, a buzzing sound will give out their location (a good suggestion that I heard from someone before 1.8). This way cloak field wouldn't need a switching nerf, good players would simply try to deactivate their cloaks when near an enemy. The buzzing sound should give away cloakers of 20 meter range, getting louder as they close in, it should work with environment headphones too (or whatever you call these things). So what do you guys think? Boosting awareness is the better option in my opinion.
Mortishai Belmont G.L.O.R.Y RISE of LEGION 68	Posted - 2014.04.07 17:14:00 - [2] - Quote I think they should just fix the glitch that allows players to stay cloaked with their weapon out :/ Personally I think it's funny, running up on scouts who think I can't see them, just standing still. "You are cloaked, not invisible" G.L.O.R.Y solider, Master of the Gallente Heavy
Seeth Mensch Capital Acquisitions LLC Dirt Nap Squad. 156	Posted - 2014.04.07 17:14:00 - [3] - Quote As an avid cloaker myself, i selfishly feel that your idea is terrible. As a gamer who enjoys having fun...well, yeah, that seems fair, but maybe not 20 meters. Hell, we can't hear tanks at 20 meters. But shotguns appear effective around 10, so how about 15? That's about the same amount of reaction time as hearing that grenade clink down next to you. Hi! Gosh, I've missed you...with every bullet, plasma shot, rail gun, and missile.
Ares 514 D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 752	Posted - 2014.04.07 17:15:00 - [4] - Quote I would argue I see much more heavies then scouts for the FOTM. Also, people scream cloak now everytime they die from behind even when there are good odds the player wasn't cloaked. ...
Smooth Assassin Stardust Incorporation IMMORTAL REGIME 1177	Posted - 2014.04.07 17:15:00 - [5] - Quote Agreed. Good idea to stop insta-kills. *Assassination is my thing.*
ReGnYuM Dirt Nap Squad. 2697	Posted - 2014.04.07 17:16:00 - [6] - Quote Ares 514 wrote: I would argue I see much more heavies then scouts for the FOTM. Also, people scream cloak now everytime they die from behind even when there are good odds the player wasn't cloaked. I disagree from my planetary conquest perspective The Pathway to Hell is paved with good intentions Total Molden Heath Domination Imminent: 90.31% Complete
Dauth Jenkins Ultramarine Corp 441	Posted - 2014.04.07 17:20:00 - [7] - Quote I can see anything but either a fully dampened scout, or a cloaked scout. So I'm pretty sure most of them were cloaked -Sincerely --The Dual Swarm Commando
Ares 514 D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 753	Posted - 2014.04.07 17:20:00 - [8] - Quote ReGnYuM wrote: Ares 514 wrote: I would argue I see much more heavies then scouts for the FOTM. Also, people scream cloak now everytime they die from behind even when there are good odds the player wasn't cloaked. I disagree from my planetary conquest perspective I would agree with you on PC; however, that is not the majority of the battles. Often when one side is loosing they spam heavies in pubs. ...
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 2426	Posted - 2014.04.07 17:21:00 - [9] - Quote Hmm, interesting very interesting. Unless your a Computer Scientist don't tell me how Game Mechanics Work. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl 2.
Nitrobeacon Freek Coalition Freek Alliance 246	Posted - 2014.04.07 17:21:00 - [10] - Quote Seeth Mensch wrote: As an avid cloaker myself, i selfishly feel that your idea is terrible. As a gamer who enjoys having fun...well, yeah, that seems fair, but maybe not 20 meters. Hell, we can't hear tanks at 20 meters. But shotguns appear effective around 10, so how about 15? That's about the same amount of reaction time as hearing that grenade clink down next to you. In this game, 20 meters is very small. In fact, 20 meters is like the length of 3 sicas in front of each other lined up. 15 meters does sound reasonable though, it was one of my options, but anyway the numbers are free to experiment with guys, as well as the sound frequency.

Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 2870	Posted - 2014.04.07 17:21:00 - [11] - Quote I can spot a cloaked scout when moving from 40m, and have even killed cloaked scouts who were standing still due to seeing the faintest shiver in the air. I have not had any more problem with cloaked scouts than I had before with fast shotgun scouts. If they come up behind me I am not going to see them anyway. (Of course I am not sure if it is due to my attention to detail, or my 60" screen.) Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 2426	Posted - 2014.04.07 17:27:00 - [12] - Quote Ares 514 wrote: ReGnYuM wrote: Ares 514 wrote: I would argue I see much more heavies then scouts for the FOTM. Also, people scream cloak now everytime they die from behind even when there are good odds the player wasn't cloaked. I disagree from my planetary conquest perspective I would agree with you on PC; however, that is not the majority of the battles. Often when one side is loosing they spam heavies in pubs. One side of who exactly? All the "Top Corps" run A Caldari Scout, with 5 x Extender 2 x Amplifiers 1 x CRG-3 Shotgun 1 x Magsec SMG 1 x Packed/Core Locus Grenade 1 +ù 'Phantasm' Cloaking Device (it being AUR is assumed) 1 x Nanite Injector 540 Sheilds 80 Armour Scan Radius of +30m Scan Prescision ~30 db (probably less) Still runs out base speed of Caldari Scout Passively beats Standard Scanners and Passive Scans and Vehicle Scanners Reps at +50 hp/s after a just a few second of delay. Unless your a Computer Scientist don't tell me how Game Mechanics Work. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl 2.
Bormir1r Fatal Absolution Dirt Nap Squad. 221	Posted - 2014.04.07 17:31:00 - [13] - Quote Nitrobeacon wrote: So everyone is saying that cloaks are too effective, especially when combined with a shotgun scout. So here's what I think, the main reason why people are annoyed is because of the fact that with cloak, you will always get the first shot, this is especially game breaking when using any OHK potential weapons, whether it be nova knives (yes I said it) or shotguns. Now you could tell people to be more aware, but this will never work, some people are just blind. That being said, I propose boosting their awareness, no nerfs, just make it so that whenever a guy have their cloak active, a buzzing sound will give out their location (a good suggestion that I heard from someone before 1.8). This way cloak field wouldn't need a switching nerf, good players would simply try to deactivate their cloaks when near an enemy. The buzzing sound should give away cloakers of 20 meter range, getting louder as they close in, it should work with environment headphones too (or whatever you call these things). So what do you guys think? Boosting awareness is the better option in my opinion. I don't think it would help because people are deaf too. =P "One does not simply" look for a scout, it looks for you.
Eskel Bondfree DUST University Ivy League 177	Posted - 2014.04.07 17:31:00 - [14] - Quote I like that idea, too. Observant players should have a chance to detect nearby cloaked players even if they don't look at them directly. If the sound was noticeable enough, I would even be fine with reducing the cloak shimmer while moving. Hearing that sound just means you can ready yourself for a suprise attack if you paid attention. But that still won't save you from a shotgun blast to the back, so it seems a fair change to me.
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 12107	Posted - 2014.04.07 17:43:00 - [15] - Quote Why not a delay before being able to fire after decloaking? This seems... irritating. You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake. EUrobro
ARF 1049 The Phoenix Federation 73	Posted - 2014.04.07 17:45:00 - [16] - Quote www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMulmBbUDZk There is your noise but don't make it to loud, and also have it so that indeed they have to decloak before firing and flux drops there cloak. Simple as that "You will never see me coming, as that of a shadow, invisible to your scanner and your eyes. Prepare your anus."
noob cavman Escrow Removal and Acquisition Dirt Nap Squad. 1155	Posted - 2014.04.07 17:46:00 - [17] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Why not a delay before being able to fire after decloaking? This seems... irritating. Oh nuuuu a delay why you nerfing me brah.... Said no one in nos nothi XD seriously this would fix alot of the dramatic QQ I want to be a caveman! Ccp: DENIED YOU DRUNK Gö+GöüGö+ n+¦pâ+(`-ö´)n+ën+¦ Gö+GöüGö+ Jollys quirky inconsistent sidekick. dem spandex yo
NAV HIV The Generals General Tso's Alliance 1367	Posted - 2014.04.07 17:47:00 - [18] - Quote Bormir1r wrote: Nitrobeacon wrote: So everyone is saying that cloaks are too effective, especially when combined with a shotgun scout. So here's what I think, the main reason why people are annoyed is because of the fact that with cloak, you will always get the first shot, this is especially game breaking when using any OHK potential weapons, whether it be nova knives (yes I said it) or shotguns. Now you could tell people to be more aware, but this will never work, some people are just blind. That being said, I propose boosting their awareness, no nerfs, just make it so that whenever a guy have their cloak active, a buzzing sound will give out their location (a good suggestion that I heard from someone before 1.8). This way cloak field wouldn't need a switching nerf, good players would simply try to deactivate their cloaks when near an enemy. The buzzing sound should give away cloakers of 20 meter range, getting louder as they close in, it should work with environment headphones too (or whatever you call these things). So what do you guys think? Boosting awareness is the better option in my opinion. I don't think it would help because people are deaf too. =P LOL Some flashing lights too OP ?! Would that help ?!
Ares 514 D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 753	Posted - 2014.04.07 18:10:00 - [19] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: Ares 514 wrote: ReGnYuM wrote: Ares 514 wrote: I would argue I see much more heavies then scouts for the FOTM. Also, people scream cloak now everytime they die from behind even when there are good odds the player wasn't cloaked. I disagree from my planetary conquest perspective I would agree with you on PC; however, that is not the majority of the battles. Often when one side is loosing they spam heavies in pubs. One side of who exactly? All the "Top Corps" run A Caldari Scout, with 5 x Extender 2 x Amplifiers 1 x CRG-3 Shotgun 1 x Magsec SMG 1 x Packed/Core Locus Grenade 1 +ù 'Phantasm' Cloaking Device (it being AUR is assumed) 1 x Nanite Injector 540 Sheilds 80 Armour Scan Radius of +30m Scan Prescision ~30 db (probably less) Still runs out base speed of Caldari Scout Passively beats Standard Scanners and Passive Scans and Vehicle Scanners Reps at +50 hp/s after a just a few second of delay. I'm just saying i've seen multiple squads of decent corps all swap into heavies when things aren't going there way. I also see at least as many heavies if not more then scouts in most pub matches. I highly doubt your fitting is exactly what all these so called top corps are running. ...
Awry Barux Ametat Security Amarr Empire 1672	Posted - 2014.04.07 18:13:00 - [20] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: Ares 514 wrote: ReGnYuM wrote: Ares 514 wrote: I would argue I see much more heavies then scouts for the FOTM. Also, people scream cloak now everytime they die from behind even when there are good odds the player wasn't cloaked. I disagree from my planetary conquest perspective I would agree with you on PC; however, that is not the majority of the battles. Often when one side is loosing they spam heavies in pubs. One side of who exactly? All the "Top Corps" run A Caldari Scout, with 5 x Extender 2 x Amplifiers 1 x CRG-3 Shotgun 1 x Magsec SMG 1 x Packed/Core Locus Grenade 1 +ù 'Phantasm' Cloaking Device (it being AUR is assumed) 1 x Nanite Injector 540 Sheilds 80 Armour Scan Radius of +30m Scan Prescision ~30 db (probably less) Still runs out base speed of Caldari Scout Passively beats Standard Scanners and Passive Scans and Vehicle Scanners Reps at +50 hp/s after a just a few second of delay. It tops out at 4 high slots for the CK.0. 540 shields is not attainable. Please, tell me more what all the "Top Corps" run. Nerdier than thou

Zaaeed Massani RisingSuns 113	Posted - 2014.04.07 18:35:00 - [21] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: I can spot a cloaked scout when moving from 40m, and have even killed cloaked scouts who were standing still due to seeing the faintest shiver in the air. I have not had any more problem with cloaked scouts than I had before with fast shotgun scouts. If they come up behind me I am not going to see them anyway. (Of course I am not sure if it is due to my attention to detail, or my 60" screen.) Pretty much this. I just this past match wrecked the same scout that kept trying to approach me (cloaked) from my flank or from in front of me like a moron. When he got behind me, he was able to kill me. And he would have been able to, anyway. Without the cloak. Cloak is fine. Let's fix the cloak bug that allows you to stay cloaked first, and then see how it plays out. After that I may possibly be in favor of an extremely slight shotgun nerf at lower levels...because Militia geared scouts should not be 1-2 shotting proto heavies. 3/10 Federal Marines -- 1/10 Republic Command Matari Commando Pride -- Mass Driver Specialist
Matticus Monk Ordus Trismegistus 1596	Posted - 2014.04.07 18:47:00 - [22] - Quote I'd also prefer that they start with removing the 'feature' that lets you get your first shot off while cloaked. Aside from that I'm not really sure the cloak needs any adjustments near-term. Active scanners have disappeared, perhaps those need some looking at.... Most of my kills I still get from sneakiness, and the cloak doesn't have much to do with it aside from getting from place A to B. Plenty of mercs don't notice me stalking them or hiding, cloaked or not. Double posting like a Kaiser.
Dexter307 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar 1338	Posted - 2014.04.07 18:47:00 - [23] - Quote No, that ruins the stealth element of the cloak. A .5s delay would be better
Scheherazade VII 400	Posted - 2014.04.07 18:50:00 - [24] - Quote Nitrobeacon wrote: a buzzing sound will give out their location ( Silent Hill 514 Replace the buzzing with radio static and we're good to go!
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. Dirt Nap Squad. 1703	Posted - 2014.04.07 18:51:00 - [25] - Quote Seeing how we have had Cloaks in the game for what 2 weeks now? And people are starting to pick out fully stationary cloaked targets... ? I think people just weren't used to playing with a Cloak in a FPS multiplayer game.... The more they play the better they are at countering a cloak with their simple eye sight.... Cloaks in FPS games are a generally new mechanic... The players who played with one in Crysis are picking it out like a sore thumb... Nothing is wrong with cloaks other then peoples lack of wanting to change the way they play and their tactics to make room for it in the game.
Scheherazade VII 400	Posted - 2014.04.07 18:53:00 - [26] - Quote Zaaeed Massani wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: I can spot a cloaked scout when moving from 40m, and have even killed cloaked scouts who were standing still due to seeing the faintest shiver in the air. I have not had any more problem with cloaked scouts than I had before with fast shotgun scouts. If they come up behind me I am not going to see them anyway. (Of course I am not sure if it is due to my attention to detail, or my 60" screen.) Pretty much this. I just this past match wrecked the same scout that kept trying to approach me (cloaked) from my flank or from in front of me like a moron. When he got behind me, he was able to kill me. And he would have been able to, anyway. Without the cloak. Cloak is fine. Let's fix the cloak bug that allows you to stay cloaked first, and then see how it plays out. After that I may possibly be in favor of an extremely slight shotgun nerf at lower levels...because Militia geared scouts should not be 1-2 shotting proto heavies. i can in a MLT suit with the breach, destroying proto heavies and sentinels in a 11K suit is the name of the game
CRNWLLC Screwy Rabbit ULC 178	Posted - 2014.04.07 19:07:00 - [27] - Quote I think the problem is best solved in two ways (ie, both of these need to happen): 1. "Switching to any other equipment, weapon or throwing a grenade will deactivate the cloak." As the dev blog said, this is how cloaks are supposed to work. If cloaks are changed so they immediately and completely deactivate as soon as another piece of equipment or weapon was in hand, we wouldn't have this problem 2. Watch the animation at the bottom of the dev blog (linked above)--if cloakers had to stand in one spot like morons for 1.5 seconds while deactivating their cloak, I guarantee we'd stop seeing uncloak+OHK. Adding this animation every time a cloak deactivates would force users to use them more intelligently, preventing them from gank-spamming. A third solution, though not as critical as the former two, it to remove the profile dampening effect of activated cloaks. As I explain more here, granting a bonus to profile dampening not only unnecessarily conflates two stealth tactics (visual + radar), it doesn't make sense that an activated, running piece of electronic equipment (ie, the cloak) decreases noise or EM radiation. The additional bonus to profile makes even less sense when considering scout suits also received more slots, enabling them to more easily fit an extra profile dampener. Basically, cloaks are broken. They're not working as advertised, and that's the story. CCP just needs to fix them. My other dropsuit is a Python.
Zaaeed Massani RisingSuns 113	Posted - 2014.04.07 19:13:00 - [28] - Quote Scheherazade VII wrote: Zaaeed Massani wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: I can spot a cloaked scout when moving from 40m, and have even killed cloaked scouts who were standing still due to seeing the faintest shiver in the air. I have not had any more problem with cloaked scouts than I had before with fast shotgun scouts. If they come up behind me I am not going to see them anyway. (Of course I am not sure if it is due to my attention to detail, or my 60" screen.) Pretty much this. I just this past match wrecked the same scout that kept trying to approach me (cloaked) from my flank or from in front of me like a moron. When he got behind me, he was able to kill me. And he would have been able to, anyway. Without the cloak. Cloak is fine. Let's fix the cloak bug that allows you to stay cloaked first, and then see how it plays out. After that I may possibly be in favor of an extremely slight shotgun nerf at lower levels...because Militia geared scouts should not be 1-2 shotting proto heavies. i can in a MLT suit with the breach, destroying proto heavies and sentinels in a 11K suit is the name of the game I routinely wreck proto heavies with a MLT Minmatar Light Suit, MLT Shotgun, MLT KinCat & CardReg, with a R-9 Drop Uplink and a MLT Submachine Gun as my Sidearm. That is NOT OK. 3/10 Federal Marines -- 1/10 Republic Command Matari Commando Pride -- Mass Driver Specialist
bogeyman m Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic 158	Posted - 2014.04.07 22:03:00 - [29] - Quote CRNWLLC wrote: I think the problem is best solved in two ways (ie, both of these need to happen): 1. "Switching to any other equipment, weapon or throwing a grenade will deactivate the cloak." As the dev blog said, this is how cloaks are supposed to work. If cloaks are changed so they immediately and completely deactivate as soon as another piece of equipment or weapon was in hand, we wouldn't have this problem 2. Watch the animation at the bottom of the dev blog (linked above)--if cloakers had to stand in one spot like morons for 1.5 seconds while deactivating their cloak, I guarantee we'd stop seeing uncloak+OHK. Adding this animation every time a cloak deactivates would force users to use them more intelligently, preventing them from gank-spamming. A third solution, though not as critical as the former two, is to remove the profile dampening effect of activated cloaks. As I explain more here, granting a bonus to profile dampening not only unnecessarily conflates two stealth tactics (visual + radar), it doesn't make sense that an activated, running piece of electronic equipment (ie, the cloak) decreases noise or EM radiation. The additional bonus to profile makes even less sense when considering scout suits also received more slots, enabling them to more easily fit an extra profile dampener. Basically, cloaks are broken. They're not working as advertised, and that's the story. CCP just needs to fix them. ^THIS^ Duct tape 2.0 > Have WD-40; will travel.
LEHON Xeon Ahrendee Mercenaries Dirt Nap Squad. 395	Posted - 2014.04.07 22:08:00 - [30] - Quote I guarantee that heavies are far more FOTM than scouts. I was in a match last week in which every single person on the other team except one guy was in a fatsuit. I have yet to see an entire other team of scouts. Last night each match I was in had at least half the team in fatsuits. Always the last person to leave. Always the one cleaning up people's messes.



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