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CRNWLLC
Screwy Rabbit ULC
158
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Posted - 2014.03.31 19:18:00 -
[1] - Quote
So why can't they swap roles? Why isn't there a mechanic that allows us to use any toon for either purpose? Clearly EVE needs to stay on PC and Dust needs to remain on PS3, but other than that, I can't think of a good reason why this shouldn't be possible. Unless mercs are former convicts (read: Sansha POWs) that are barred from commanding spaceships?
How will Valkyrie characters fit in? What will they be called (ie, "pilots", "jockies", etc.)?
What's the basis in lore for the current situation, wherein my immortal merc is unable to even change his place of residence unless my capsuleer CEO decides to rent an office at the desired station (which is a ripoff and isn't possible if no offices are vacant)?
As much as the (yet-to-be) economic and gameplay connections between EVE and Dust, I want an explanation of why mercs are second class citizens in their respective sovereignties.
Additionally, it seems to me that moving all skills (merc and capsuleer) to one skill tree and making them all passive would eliminate "the grind" that so many people complain about, as well as not reward players who've checked out for months at a time (since they'd have to log in at least occasionally to update their skill queue if they wanted their toon to grow). And with Valkyrie just around the corner, I'm curious to see what character development model CCP chooses.
I'm sure plenty of die-hard players on both sides of the (current) New Eden universe/gamescape will object to this, but I for one would love the chance enrich all of my toons' back stories by having the option to train them in multiple "Super Roles".
EVE = spaceship commander (capsuleers are not pilots; even the smallest EVE ship is crewed)
Dust = ground-based mercenary
Valkyrie = fighter pilot
Thoughts and opinions (re: either lore or mechanics)?
My other dropsuit is a Python.
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BL4CKST4R
WarRavens
League of Infamy
2344
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Posted - 2014.03.31 19:26:00 -
[2] - Quote
Well for starters when a capsuleer dies that person is dead completely that state of consciousness that briefly was does and no longer exists at the point of death the capsuleer transfers his thoughts and state of mind unto a new clone copying the person not "reviving" him therefore a capsuleer is not truly immortal.
When a mercenary dies his consciousness his being is transferred over completely unto a new body, this is true immortality whether or not it is compatible with a capsuleer cloning technology is unknown, but as it currently stands it just can't happen.
For the Federation!
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knight of 6
Sver true blood
General Tso's Alliance
1657
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Posted - 2014.03.31 19:26:00 -
[3] - Quote
the second a pod is breached it takes a scan of the capsuleer's brain and uploads it to a fresh clone. the pod takes the place of the implant that dust mercs have. while that isn't a huge deal the next bit is.
capsuleers have an augmented nervous system that allows them to interface directly with the ship (fly the ship with their thoughts) mercs don't have those implants and augmentations.
GÇ£Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for I am dampened.GÇ¥
Ko6 scout,
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Hecarim Van Hohen
Bullet Cluster
Lokun Listamenn
845
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Posted - 2014.03.31 19:39:00 -
[4] - Quote
BL4CKST4R wrote:Well for starters when a capsuleer dies that person is dead completely that state of consciousness that briefly was does and no longer exists at the point of death the capsuleer transfers his thoughts and state of mind unto a new clone copying the person not "reviving" him therefore a capsuleer is not truly immortal.
When a mercenary dies his consciousness his being is transferred over completely unto a new body, this is true immortality whether or not it is compatible with a capsuleer cloning technology is unknown, but as it currently stands it just can't happen.
There was a mention of this (or something very similar) in Templar One.
If God had wanted you to live, he would not have created me!
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bamboo x
Eternal Beings
Proficiency V.
555
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Posted - 2014.03.31 19:42:00 -
[5] - Quote
No. Dust needs to move to PS4.
B.D. Wong AKA Dr. Wu returns to Jurassic Park sequel
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Delta 749
Kestrel Reconnaissance
2786
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Posted - 2014.03.31 19:43:00 -
[6] - Quote
Something about our clone implants interfering with the neural implants capsuleers have, Im sure someone more boned up on the lore will clarify
I'll start my own war, with hookers, and blackjack!
In fact forget the war and the blackjack.
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ZDub 303
TeamPlayers
Negative-Feedback
2418
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Posted - 2014.03.31 19:49:00 -
[7] - Quote
CRNWLLC wrote:Clearly EVE needs to stay on PC and Dust needs to remain on PS3,
Not clearly... some compelling arguments can be made as to why Dust should get off the PS3 as soon as possible. |
Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
1826
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Posted - 2014.03.31 20:00:00 -
[8] - Quote
knight of 6 wrote:the second a pod is breached it takes a scan of the capsuleer's brain and uploads it to a fresh clone. the pod takes the place of the implant that dust mercs have. while that isn't a huge deal the next bit is.
capsuleers have an augmented nervous system that allows them to interface directly with the ship (fly the ship with their thoughts) mercs don't have those implants and augmentations.
Correct, from what I read of Templar One this about how I understand it. The Dust implant was revolutionary because it basically miniaturized the Pod tech in terms of consciousness transfer (There are some details about memories, ect. If you care, read the book). However that miniaturization also made then unable to directly link with Starships like a Pod can.
So in short Dust Mercs traded portability in exchange for losing starship command abilities.
Pokey Dravon for CPM1
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CRNWLLC
Screwy Rabbit ULC
159
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Posted - 2014.03.31 20:22:00 -
[9] - Quote
Awesome answers, thanks for the clarification, folks!
I wonder how this will effect Valkyrie pilots? Which of the two consciousness transferring/(im)mortality paradigms will apply to them? Hopefully not a third variant of the technology.
My other dropsuit is a Python.
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Jackof All-Trades
The Black Renaissance
543
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Posted - 2014.03.31 20:23:00 -
[10] - Quote
Actually, Hilmar has said there wasn't any reason why they couldn't. If someone would be so kind as to find the source, you could all see for yourselves.
"Pulvis et umbra sums." We are but dust and shadow GÇò Horace, The Odes of Horace
\
Omni-Specialist
/ Focus: Gallente
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CRNWLLC
Screwy Rabbit ULC
159
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Posted - 2014.03.31 20:30:00 -
[11] - Quote
Jackof All-Trades wrote:Actually, Hilmar has said there wasn't any reason why they couldn't. If someone would be so kind as to find the source, you could all see for yourselves.
I'm search the EVE forums ATM and keep finding different explanations.
Here's an interesting thread. Someone says that merc clones have an extra lobe, and I read something that gives me the impression that one technology is Jovian-derived, the other Sleeper-derived, but I'm not sure which is which.
Anyway, can't wait for Valkyrie! And on Morpheus, of course, cuz, you know, screw Mark Suckerturd.
My other dropsuit is a Python.
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Kristoff Atruin
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
1994
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Posted - 2014.03.31 20:31:00 -
[12] - Quote
Eve Source gets into this from a lore perspective. The merc implants aren't designed to interface with a starship, and beyond that capsuleers have to undergo intense training before conversion so that they don't lose their minds when the ship becomes their body for the first time.
That's just current tech though, no reason it wouldn't evolve over time. From a real world technical perspective it should be possible for a character to have both Eve skills and Dust ones. It's just a pile of data after all, which already exists on the same servers as Eve. I think the main difficulty would be around deciding what happens if you log in the same character in Dust and Eve at the same time, and creating the ability for Dust characters to move around New Eden...so that when you log in via Dust your character is where you last left it in Eve.
Assuming you didn't leave him logged out in space. |
CRNWLLC
Screwy Rabbit ULC
159
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 20:36:00 -
[13] - Quote
Kristoff Atruin wrote:Eve Source gets into this from a lore perspective. The merc implants aren't designed to interface with a starship, and beyond that capsuleers have to undergo intense training before conversion so that they don't lose their minds when the ship becomes their body for the first time.
That's just current tech though, no reason it wouldn't evolve over time. From a real world technical perspective it should be possible for a character to have both Eve skills and Dust ones. It's just a pile of data after all, which already exists on the same servers as Eve. I think the main difficulty would be around deciding what happens if you log in the same character in Dust and Eve at the same time, and creating the ability for Dust characters to move around New Eden...so that when you log in via Dust your character is where you last left it in Eve.
Assuming you didn't leave him logged out in space.
I think this difficulty is solved by only allowing one active login instance per account! And maybe merc battles are only available from certain stations, a la different kinds/levels of missions, so the capsuleer would necessarily have to be docked to participate.
My other dropsuit is a Python.
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BAD FURRY
SVER True Blood
General Tso's Alliance
706
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Posted - 2014.03.31 20:44:00 -
[14] - Quote
CRNWLLC wrote:So why can't they swap roles? Why isn't there a mechanic that allows us to use any toon for either purpose? Clearly EVE needs to stay on PC and Dust needs to remain on PS3, but other than that, I can't think of a good reason why this shouldn't be possible. Unless mercs are former convicts (read: Sansha POWs) that are barred from commanding spaceships?
How will Valkyrie characters fit in? What will they be called (ie, "pilots", "jockies", etc.)?
What's the basis in lore for the current situation, wherein my immortal merc is unable to even change his place of residence unless my capsuleer CEO decides to rent an office at the desired station (which is a ripoff and isn't possible if no offices are vacant)?
As much as the (yet-to-be) economic and gameplay connections between EVE and Dust, I want an explanation of why mercs are second class citizens in their respective sovereignties.
Additionally, it seems to me that moving all skills (merc and capsuleer) to one skill tree and making them all passive would eliminate "the grind" that so many people complain about, as well as not reward players who've checked out for months at a time (since they'd have to log in at least occasionally to update their skill queue if they wanted their toon to grow). And with Valkyrie just around the corner, I'm curious to see what character development model CCP chooses.
I'm sure plenty of die-hard players on both sides of the (current) New Eden universe/gamescape will object to this, but I for one would love the chance enrich all of my toons' back stories by having the option to train them in multiple "Super Roles".
EVE = spaceship commander (capsuleers are not pilots; even the smallest EVE ship is crewed)
Dust = ground-based mercenary
Valkyrie = fighter pilot
Thoughts and opinions (re: either lore or mechanics)?
Valkyrie = NOT IN EVE ONLINE ! ITS OWN GAME !
EVE = EVE
DUST = The GUY WHO THINKS HE,s PLAYING EVE !
Quote:EVE = spaceship commander (capsuleers are not pilots; even the smallest EVE ship is crewed)
WRONG ! ^^^^^
READ The Jovian Wet Grave !
in the early day yes but not any more !
in 120 yrs after that with new tech and implants capsuleers can run the biggest of ships iv them self's !
the only time you see ship crew is in NPC Ships !
AS for why you cant fly my ship
WOULD YOU LIKE TO WAIT 70 days JUST TO SIT IN IT ?
that's not counting all the skills to fit it !
Quote:
The Neurological anatomy of a Clone soldier is fundamentaly different than that of a capsuleer, (Dust clone brains have a 5th lobe that we don't have,) so our burn-scan data is different too, meaning that when the data is uploaded to the new body we would never wake up. other than that, consider the amount of knowledge that has to be transfered, We capsuleers posses the knowlege to operate kilometer-sized machines, while Dust soldiers, only need to know how handle equipment and vehicles. Dust implants are not able to transfer the amount of data our brains contain, ( especially Capsuleers with tens of millions of skillpoints. )
Yes i am a Undead Hell Wolf ... nice to meat you!
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CRNWLLC
Screwy Rabbit ULC
159
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Posted - 2014.03.31 21:03:00 -
[15] - Quote
BAD FURRY wrote:Valkyrie = NOT IN EVE ONLINE ! ITS OWN GAME ! EVE = EVE DUST = The GUY WHO THINKS HE,s PLAYING EVE ! Quote:EVE = spaceship commander (capsuleers are not pilots; even the smallest EVE ship is crewed) WRONG ! ^^^^^ READ The Jovian Wet Grave ! in the early day yes but not any more ! in 120 yrs after that with new tech and implants capsuleers can run the biggest of ships iv them self's ! the only time you see ship crew is in NPC Ships !
Thanks for the intelligible contribution, chief?
To quote the EVE Online Item Database on frigates (emphasis mine):
"Frigates are the smallest combat capable craft that is able to accept pod technology easily reducing crew needs of up to 40 personnel by >50% or greater to nearly unmanned save for the captain. Various hulls were designed to fulfill specific roles more effectively but many frigates are capable of multiple roles in a wide variety of fields."
Destroyers (emphasis mine):
"They are the second smallest hull able to accept pod technology, the use of which effectively reduces their normal crew complement from 90 personnel down to 10-20. Unfortunately, due of their small size, damage to destroyers is usually catastrophic and results in less than 10% of the crew surviving."
And note this is for frigates and destroyers, the smallest vessels in the game. So unquestionably EVE ships are crewed.
But thank you for your cocksureness.
BAD FURRY wrote:
AS for why you cant fly my ship
WOULD YOU LIKE TO WAIT 70 days JUST TO SIT IN IT ?
that's not counting all the skills to fit it !
Uh, yeah, I'm cool with this. I also play EVE, so derp derp.
My other dropsuit is a Python.
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1pawn dust
Algintal Core
Gallente Federation
66
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Posted - 2014.03.31 21:14:00 -
[16] - Quote
Capsuleers arent pilots? They literally become the ship, see HW for the idea they ripped off from.
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21yrOld Knight
Pradox XVI
Proficiency V.
608
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Posted - 2014.03.31 21:30:00 -
[17] - Quote
Essentially we have different implanets. Ours was first from sleeper tech then when all of the first gens used them and went 514 we the empires made their own implants. While capsuleers have tech that is Jovian. Also Capsuleers when killed generate differently and they don't have nanites in their clones.
This thread in the igs has info about. Please don't post OOC comments.
Mike Ruan Said i was Dust Famous !
#gildarting
Volunteer member of the Arkombine, but i don't want out.
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CRNWLLC
Screwy Rabbit ULC
160
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Posted - 2014.03.31 21:38:00 -
[18] - Quote
1pawn dust wrote:Capsuleers arent pilots? They literally become the ship, see HW for the idea they ripped off from.
Nah, I'd say that's more than piloting--I'd say that's as much of a command position as possible. Again, these ships are crewed, meaning capsuleers are the captains, and captains (in a functional sense, not in the sense of military rank) are not pilots. The fact that they are crewed means that capsuleers are never 100% in control of all vessel functions and are therefore not merely pilots.
A fighter pilot, on the other hand, is just a fighter pilot. That's all I'm trying to say.
My other dropsuit is a Python.
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Kristoff Atruin
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
1994
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 21:41:00 -
[19] - Quote
Capsuleers basically replace the entire command staff. The ships aren't so automated that they don't need engineering, maintenance staff etc. |
Operative 1171 Aajli
Bragian Order
Amarr Empire
1699
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 21:52:00 -
[20] - Quote
CRNWLLC wrote:So why can't they swap roles? Why isn't there a mechanic that allows us to use any toon for either purpose? Clearly EVE needs to stay on PC and Dust needs to remain on PS3, but other than that, I can't think of a good reason why this shouldn't be possible. Unless mercs are former convicts (read: Sansha POWs) that are barred from commanding spaceships?
How will Valkyrie characters fit in? What will they be called (ie, "pilots", "jockies", etc.)?
What's the basis in lore for the current situation, wherein my immortal merc is unable to even change his place of residence unless my capsuleer CEO decides to rent an office at the desired station (which is a ripoff and isn't possible if no offices are vacant)?
As much as the (yet-to-be) economic and gameplay connections between EVE and Dust, I want an explanation of why mercs are second class citizens in their respective sovereignties.
Additionally, it seems to me that moving all skills (merc and capsuleer) to one skill tree and making them all passive would eliminate "the grind" that so many people complain about, as well as not reward players who've checked out for months at a time (since they'd have to log in at least occasionally to update their skill queue if they wanted their toon to grow). And with Valkyrie just around the corner, I'm curious to see what character development model CCP chooses.
I'm sure plenty of die-hard players on both sides of the (current) New Eden universe/gamescape will object to this, but I for one would love the chance enrich all of my toons' back stories by having the option to train them in multiple "Super Roles".
EVE = spaceship commander (capsuleers are not pilots; even the smallest EVE ship is crewed)
Dust = ground-based mercenary
Valkyrie = fighter pilot
Thoughts and opinions (re: either lore or mechanics)?
As CCP explained it, the in game reason is that people do one thing or the other. Just like in this world fighter pilots don't also fight on the ground as infantry. Immortality aside, the people that clones are based on had the ability of ground force roles or at least were engineered to do that. It is a different program.
Capsuleers are independent people who buy their own clones and train themselves. They are good at or interested in flying ships. They don't have what it takes to fight in ground wars and the clones are not the same kind of clone.
However, as I like to imagine my merc clone is a clone of my capsuleer, but different than the pod clone. It is therefore a separate person and specially engineered for ground fighting (which is what they would be anyway) thus explaining why the same clone can't pilot a ship. Also, I just imagine that fighting as infantry was an earlier career before they became a pilot.
The real reason though is that, SURPRISE, CCP doesn't know how to integrate the two games at all. Even if they did allow you to transfer your character it would technically be in name only. Even with skill integration it is a separate game and the skill sets don't overlap.
"Stay stealthy scouts."
GÇô Ron Burgundy
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