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Remove Dampining bonus on cloaks

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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 10204	Posted - 2014.03.31 18:26:00 - [31] - Quote I for the most part don't think cloaks are a problem, but I really don't think the dampening bonus is needed. You do have a point about it encouraging brick-tanking. Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
Broonfondle Majikthies Dogs of War Gaming Zero-Day 1066	Posted - 2014.03.31 18:53:00 - [32] - Quote As a min scout I need the damps associate with the cloak to facilitate my role. Or else a Caldari scout will just own me all the time. With it I at least have the option to free up a low slot from dampeners for something more practical like range enhancers / codebreakers. Its not even particularly effective as a dampener as we can't keep it running all the time. Essentially either way I'm boned but at least the extra damps give me an outside chance "...where Bylothgar the Ill-postured was made King of the People With No Name But Decent Footwear"
Ivan Avogadro Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 958	Posted - 2014.03.31 18:58:00 - [33] - Quote Broonfondle Majikthies wrote: As a min scout I need the damps associate with the cloak to facilitate my role. Or else a Caldari scout will just own me all the time. With it I at least have the option to free up a low slot from dampeners for something more practical like range enhancers / codebreakers. Its not even particularly effective as a dampener as we can't keep it running all the time. Essentially either way I'm boned but at least the extra damps give me an outside chance This is true. I have a cal scout and I ping min scouts all the time on my radar. They need to run 2x complex dampeners to evade me, or 1 and a cloak. I can tell which ones have no dampeners at all, because their chevron appears over a big old invisible nothing. Also, the added dampening helps sell the cloak to other roles. It's possible to put a cloak on an assault, but without any extra dampening every assault and logi on the other team would see his reddot and chevron anyway. Hail Bacon
Vesperz D3ATH CARD 63	Posted - 2014.03.31 19:16:00 - [34] - Quote Broonfondle Majikthies wrote: As a min scout I need the damps associate with the cloak to facilitate my role. Or else a Caldari scout will just own me all the time. With it I at least have the option to free up a low slot from dampeners for something more practical like range enhancers / codebreakers. Its not even particularly effective as a dampener as we can't keep it running all the time. Essentially either way I'm boned but at least the extra damps give me an outside chance Exactly, in order to compete with my minmatar scout I need to also run one or two complex dampners and a cloak just to get away from / or the drop on a Caldari scout or I'm dead. ... I've already died enough times to those bastards before hand. Lmao. Live by honor, kill by stealth.
Ghost Kaisar Fatal Absolution 3982	Posted - 2014.03.31 19:19:00 - [35] - Quote Virtual Riot wrote: As stated in title. Why do scouts need a free complex dampener with their cloak? This only encourages brick tanking. It doesn't even make sense realistically. A cloak would bend visible light waves, not radar waves or other forms of scanning. That way if a scout wants to dodge scans and eyes, he has to sacrifice a little bit more tank. No other scout has this problem other than the Gal Scout. It gets a free complex damp built in AND another in the cloak. Hence why they can brick tank and avoid a majority of scanners at the same time. My Min Scout? I don't even have the low slots to brick tank. They all go to damping, hacking, and speed. I got my cloak and daggers, I'm a very happy Ghost I hack at Mach V
NAV HIV The Generals General Tso's Alliance 1303	Posted - 2014.03.31 19:20:00 - [36] - Quote Virtual Riot wrote: I'm not mad, I just don't like how scouts don't even have to fit good damps to dodge my proto gal logi scans unless I use a focused. What is the point in being a scanning specialist when it doesn't even work half the time Sure, I can run 4 focused scanners. Thats only 120k worth of equipment right there, and gimps my ability to detect things other than scouts. Idk brah, I just don't think the cloak should come with a free damp. I think removing that bonus from the cloak would force scouts to fit damps if they want to dodge scans, which is turn would result in less brick tanking. Scouts still get to be sneaky, but if they wanna be extra sneaky they should have to pay for it. Pick one Extra sneaky or Extra tanky I don't think that they should get both. My scout fitting is close to 180k... You wanna scan and find me with a 30k suit ?!
Zirzo Valcyn Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire 364	Posted - 2014.03.31 19:21:00 - [37] - Quote Virtual Riot wrote: As stated in title. Why do scouts need a free complex dampener with their cloak? This only encourages brick tanking. It doesn't even make sense realistically. A cloak would bend visible light waves, not radar waves or other forms of scanning. That way if a scout wants to dodge scans and eyes, he has to sacrifice a little bit more tank. light is a frequency so radar could also be deflected besides, the Philadelphia Experiment achieved both visual and radar invisibility http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philadelphia_Experiment u can ban the troll out of the forums but u can't ban the forums out of the troll. forum warrior .189
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 7743	Posted - 2014.03.31 19:26:00 - [38] - Quote Just so you know, here on earth, we now have cloaking technology that enables objects to bend radio waves around them rather than absorb or deflect them away from their source. This is not like traditional stealth you know already like the B-2 bomber and F-117 Nighthawk. We also have cloak technology that bends light in the same fashion. All that's left now is to figure out how to merge those two techs together. Dedicated Scout // Ninja Knifer Everything I know about the Caldari I learned at Nouvelle Rouvenor
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 7743	Posted - 2014.03.31 19:29:00 - [39] - Quote Zirzo Valcyn wrote: Virtual Riot wrote: As stated in title. Why do scouts need a free complex dampener with their cloak? This only encourages brick tanking. It doesn't even make sense realistically. A cloak would bend visible light waves, not radar waves or other forms of scanning. That way if a scout wants to dodge scans and eyes, he has to sacrifice a little bit more tank. light is a frequency so radar could also be deflected besides, the Philadelphia Experiment achieved both visual and radar invisibility http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philadelphia_Experiment I don't think that source of information counts. The technology on earth i'm describing is something that is worked on in universities around the world. Dedicated Scout // Ninja Knifer Everything I know about the Caldari I learned at Nouvelle Rouvenor
Temias Mercurial ANGEL FLEET 42	Posted - 2014.03.31 19:31:00 - [40] - Quote The cloak may be made up of several different systems and is merely dubbed "the cloak" to summarize these components. A battleship is composed of a crew, ship, weapons, ammunition, and etc. It wouldn't be difficult to say that the cloak is composed of a visual cloak, resistance to radar, has reduced effectiveness when moving, and etc.

Zirzo Valcyn Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire 365	Posted - 2014.03.31 19:32:00 - [41] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Just so you know, here on earth, we now have cloaking technology that enables objects to bend radio waves around them rather than absorb or deflect them away from their source. This is not like traditional stealth you know already like the B-2 bomber and F-117 Nighthawk. We also have cloak technology that bends light in the same fashion. All that's left now is to figure out how to merge those two techs together. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itmn_1AsG10 u can ban the troll out of the forums but u can't ban the forums out of the troll. forum warrior .189
Mike Ox Bigger Skill Shots 194	Posted - 2014.03.31 19:32:00 - [42] - Quote I am proto gallente logi with proto scans and I am also a proto caldari scout with all passive scanning at 5. I completely support taking away the built in complex dampener as it does promote brick tanking. A scout needs no effort what so ever to dodge a scanner. They have no need to skill into the dampening tree except to hide from other scouts. Taking away the dampener would at least force scouts to run one dampener to dodge scanners. Being almost invisible is enough, I play both sides so I'm being 100% impartial.
bamboo x Eternal Beings Proficiency V. 555	Posted - 2014.03.31 19:34:00 - [43] - Quote OP you are an idiot. This is the only way for non-Gal scouts to be unscannable. -1 B.D. Wong AKA Dr. Wu returns to Jurassic Park sequel
Ghost Kaisar Fatal Absolution 3982	Posted - 2014.03.31 19:39:00 - [44] - Quote bamboo x wrote: OP you are an idiot. This is the only way for non-Gal scouts to be unscannable. -1 -1 for you Non-Gal scouts aren't SUPPOSED to be unscannable without gimping their fit. They are just supposed to be very difficult to detect. The real debate is whether their ability to be undetectable without gimping their fit is OP or not. I just know that they are VERY strong this build. I got my cloak and daggers, I'm a very happy Ghost I hack at Mach V
Centurion mkII Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 209	Posted - 2014.03.31 19:44:00 - [45] - Quote Virtual Riot wrote: Vulpes Dolosus wrote: Well... from a physics point of view, radar is light so... No..... radar is electromagnetic waves. Light is also electromagnetic waves. But radar is not light -_-" Cloaks don't bend any waves outside the visible light spectrum. I would argue thats not true seeing as we are harder to find with it active. >:)
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui The Containment Unit 469	Posted - 2014.03.31 19:46:00 - [46] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Just so you know, here on earth, we now have cloaking technology that enables objects to bend radio waves around them rather than absorb or deflect them away from their source. This is not like traditional stealth you know already like the B-2 bomber and F-117 Nighthawk. We also have cloak technology that bends light in the same fashion. All that's left now is to figure out how to merge those two techs together. They already know how to do this . It's just a matter of not letting the information out so others can copy it and an even bigger arms race ensues . Hell they have " warp drives " and time machines . Think they don't then your in for a surprise in twenty years . They might never admit the time machine part though . Leave all negative comments about tanks in the bin marked " TRASH " and we'll get to it as soon as possible . Thank You
RKKR The Southern Legion League of Infamy 865	Posted - 2014.03.31 20:02:00 - [47] - Quote We also have technology that can detect waves radiated by an object. Ooops. We also have brains to realize that having 2 items for 2 different slots for dampening that also happen to increase dampening more effectively than the 1 item that increases precision is unbalanced in a GAME.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 4754	Posted - 2014.04.01 04:12:00 - [48] - Quote Magnus Amadeuss wrote: Real life analogies do not belong anywhere near a game unless it is a simulation. Dust is not a simulator. Also, I agree with the OP, the cloak has only advantages to fitting it, no draw-backs. It needs a draw-back, not just less advantages. Real life analogies have PLENTY of place in a discussion about the technological background of a device and the lore describing how it works. That's what was being discussed when bringing real life analogies into the mix, so it was relevant to use it. As for the balance thing, what's the drawback for fitting a Nanohive? How about a Repair Tool? Is there a negative to balance out Active Scanners? The balance in all these cases - THE SAME DRAWBACK WITH THE CLOAK - is that you can't have the equipment out and active while ALSO having your weapon drawn. The other balance is the fitting capacity on your Dropsuit. And yeah, maybe - MAYBE - a couple of the Scout suits have more PG and CPU at each tier than they really should have. Maybe it's a little too easy to stack Prototype modules and a cloak on just the Advanced suits in some cases. Oooh, I know! Maybe because cloaking is so powerful, they should add the drawback that when you're moving, you have a blue shimmery effect so people can see you! And just in case people still have trouble, there should be at least a faint shimmer when you're staying still. But if that's not enough, how about they also make sure an enemy's crosshairs still turn red when they're on target. ...wait a minute... this sounds familiar somehow... Pretty sure the cloak is fine with the drawbacks it already has. RKKR wrote: We also have brains to realize that having 2 items for 2 different slots for dampening that also happen to increase dampening more effectively than the 1 item that increases precision is unbalanced in a GAME. Which one item is it that you're thinking of which can help detect dampened enemies? I count 3. Also, for DUST, a cloaked and dampened Scout SHOULD be invisible to scanners while the cloak is active - it has a time limit, remember? Combine the timer with the fact that YOU CAN SEE THEM and the fact that YOUR CROSSHAIRS TURN RED IN CASE YOU'RE HALF BLIND, and there are plenty of hard counters right there provided for EVERYONE WHO PLAYS THE GAME. And that's before considering that if you want to dampen enough to be hidden from passive and active scanning, you need to be sacrificing the tankiness which is what people mostly complain about when it comes to cloaking. Cloak dampening doesn't hide Scouts well enough on its own to negate a good scanning build, so if you're fighting a brick-tanked Scout, a good Scout who isn't brick-tanked will see them coming from any direction, while everyone else can still see them, but only from in front.
Garth Mandra The Southern Legion League of Infamy 368	Posted - 2014.04.01 04:38:00 - [49] - Quote Stop trying to physics guys. You're just going to hurt yourselves. I agree with the OP. At least reduce the bonus significantly with a progression to a higher values with the better cloaks.
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 10214	Posted - 2014.04.01 15:16:00 - [50] - Quote The physics thing has become a distraction away from the main point. Cloaks don't need the profile reduction, it encourages scouts not to fit their own dampeners, and brick-tank instead. Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+

Ydubbs81 RND Ahrendee Mercenaries Dirt Nap Squad. 2735	Posted - 2014.04.01 15:19:00 - [51] - Quote Virtual Riot wrote: As stated in title. Why do scouts need a free complex dampener with their cloak? This only encourages brick tanking. It doesn't even make sense realistically. A cloak would bend visible light waves, not radar waves or other forms of scanning. That way if a scout wants to dodge scans and eyes, he has to sacrifice a little bit more tank. Makes sense..... +1 weRideNDie2getha since 2010 (https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts)
Ydubbs81 RND Ahrendee Mercenaries Dirt Nap Squad. 2735	Posted - 2014.04.01 15:20:00 - [52] - Quote bamboo x wrote: OP you are an idiot. This is the only way for non-Gal scouts to be unscannable. -1 should be careful when you call someone else an idiot when you make statements like this. weRideNDie2getha since 2010 (https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts)
TheD1CK Dead Man's Game 1006	Posted - 2014.04.01 15:37:00 - [53] - Quote Virtual Riot wrote: As stated in title. Why do scouts need a free complex dampener with their cloak? This only encourages brick tanking. It doesn't even make sense realistically. A cloak would bend visible light waves, not radar waves or other forms of scanning. That way if a scout wants to dodge scans and eyes, he has to sacrifice a little bit more tank. Regardless of damps/cloak there is only one scout that can avoid a good scanner by Gallogi If a scout is trying to dampen they lose that tank you mention, along with still being scanned by Proto scanners .... QQ Look Closer the next time a Cloaker attacks you 'D1CK by name' 'D1CK by nature'
Odigos Ellinas Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation 35	Posted - 2014.04.02 03:31:00 - [54] - Quote Scouts are supposed to infiltrators and assassins that means difficult to be detected. Thats why they have bonuses in using the cloak and a low DB profile. There are some glitches and bugs with the cloak that work as an advantage for scouts (or anyone using the cloak). Glitches and bugs need to be fixed of course. The major problem with scouts at the moment is they have to much CPU/PG. a light frame dropsuite like the scout should not be possible yo have the same shield/armor HP like a medium frame dropsuite without sacrificing the tier of the weapon/equipment/sidearm/cloak.
Mike Ox Bigger Skill Shots 212	Posted - 2014.04.02 03:36:00 - [55] - Quote Odigos Ellinas wrote: Scouts are supposed to infiltrators and assassins that means difficult to be detected. Thats why they have bonuses in using the cloak and a low DB profile. There are some glitches and bugs with the cloak that work as an advantage for scouts (or anyone using the cloak). Glitches and bugs need to be fixed of course. The major problem with scouts at the moment is they have to much CPU/PG. a light frame dropsuite like the scout should not be possible yo have the same shield/armor HP like a medium frame dropsuite without sacrificing the tier of the weapon/equipment/sidearm/cloak. Those guys that stack armor and shield get ripped apart by real scouts. If you are not a scout and can't counter them yourself. You should look to squad up with a real scout who can easily detect them. It's about time the scout actually has a place on the battlefield. I remember people x-ing up for PC back in the day and they'd put they were in a proto scout suit, people be like, "You don't have any other suit?" lmao.
LittleCuteBunny 388	Posted - 2014.04.02 03:37:00 - [56] - Quote Removing the bonus mainly affects minmatar, amarr and caldari scout. the Gallente Scout doesn't really needs the dampening since they can easily add another dampener and remain un detectable. Recruiter Link Retired.
X7 lion SWAMPERIUM 139	Posted - 2014.04.02 03:45:00 - [57] - Quote can hide from proto scans regardless & dose not care Immortality will not protect you from me. I am death incarnate, you will die.
Buster Friently Rosen Association 2150	Posted - 2014.04.02 06:34:00 - [58] - Quote Virtual Riot wrote: Vulpes Dolosus wrote: Well... from a physics point of view, radar is light so... No..... radar is electromagnetic waves. Light is also electromagnetic waves. But radar is not light -_-" Cloaks don't bend any waves outside the visible light spectrum. Says who? Given that they do, in fact, include a dampening bonus, I'd say that they cloak more than just the visible wavelengths.
Buster Friently Rosen Association 2150	Posted - 2014.04.02 06:35:00 - [59] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: The physics thing has become a distraction away from the main point. Cloaks don't need the profile reduction, it encourages scouts not to fit their own dampeners, and brick-tank instead. So what? Who declared that brick tanking is bad, or only for specific suits?
Alena Ventrallis PAND3M0N1UM Lokun Listamenn 1100	Posted - 2014.04.02 07:44:00 - [60] - Quote I'm for it. Best PVE idea I've seen. Fixed link.



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