Pages: 1 [2] :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Joel II X
Dah Gods O Bacon
2100
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 10:41:00 -
[31] - Quote
I like the idea. |
Canari Elphus
Dirt Nap Squad.
1348
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 13:10:00 -
[32] - Quote
I agree that Assaults are a specialized suit as they do need some differentiation with basic medium frames besides being cheaper (which is bass ackward in my opinion).
I do not think, however, that they should have a strict dps bonus as part of the role though. Giving them an efficacy for damage mods means that it gives the suit focus without overpowering it. It would mean that they could be better killers at the expense of ehp which then gives reason for the logi as a support suit.
Giving them a bonus to being frontline fighters is the only way to have the suit mean something and have it be a viable choice compared to other suits. Im not talking about an extreme increase in TTK either. If you gave assaults a 10% increase in effectiveness of damage mods per level then it would increase a complex mod from 5% to 7.5% with maxed skills. This would not be a huge change but enough to make it a viable option as a suit role.
Canari Elphus for CPM1
|
RINON114
B.S.A.A. General Tso's Alliance
562
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 13:49:00 -
[33] - Quote
This idea is epic, I really love it. The way to balance classes and actually give them roles is to do this PG/CPU reduction of certain modules or equipment. To only apply this to one piece of equipment has worked well for scouts (but it does feel like they're almost forced into that role).
Perhaps there is another solution that doesn't pigeonhole classes, but this seems like the best one so far.
As for the shield module, I would like it to work much like the GÇ£Phalanx ShieldGÇ¥ of the Commando's Scorpio turret in Borderlands 2. The shield is relatively weak but has a cooldown and allows you to shoot out, not allowing suits to shoot out will just provide a stalemate for a short time and not really create any dynamic. The module should work much like the cloak, except the cooldown has to go all the way down and then recharge before being used again (to stop spam).
I would be assault with this skill any day. |
Operative 1171 Aajli
Bragian Order Amarr Empire
1692
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 15:08:00 -
[34] - Quote
xSir Campsalotx wrote:what if you let assaults use 2 light weapons
Lol yeah. Then the commando gets three light weapon slots! Mwuhahaha!
"Stay stealthy scouts."
GÇô Ron Burgundy
|
Ivan Avogadro
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
958
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 15:20:00 -
[35] - Quote
they should take away the scout sidearm. Scouts already have 2 equip, and the strongest ewar in the game. They shouldn't have the resilience of a frontliner and even more options. (I am a career scout, btw). The closed beta Type II scout had 2 equip and no sidearm, and I always thought it was the best scout CCP has designed to date. CCP instead rolled out Uprising with the Type I which was essentially "tiny assault" = faster with lower HP + 1 Sidearm and 1 equip. Same build as the assault suit but with less fitting and easier to kill.
Nowadays though, scouts are sitting pretty. Great EWAR, cloak is balanced, racial abilities are awesome. Just take away scout sidearm to make them more of a utility role. The you don't need to give the assaults anything at all. They will default to the frontline grunts, being faster than heavy suits and having more types of bullets than Scouts.
Damage Based, attack = Assault Damage Based, defense = Sentinel Damage Based, support = Commando
Utility Based, attack = Scout Utility Based, support = Logistics
Hail Bacon
|
deepfried salad gilliam
Sanguine Knights
596
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 15:51:00 -
[36] - Quote
i would prefer a shield projector use it it shoots out a shield array that looses charge from time and damage id like it to look like a ward from skyrim but more techy looking
It'll help define roles, i promise:)
|
ZDub 303
TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback
2413
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 16:33:00 -
[37] - Quote
They just need their bonuses completely reworked, its very clear CCP has no clue what to do with the bonuses for assaults.
Just look at amarr, there IS a reason to run Amarr Assault over Amarr Scout... the laser weaponry heat build up bonus. I think we need to focus more on this.
The role bonus is bogus, 25% weapon fitting is a joke and everyone knows it. I would, personally, change this to a 3% per level on shield and armor module efficacy. Increase their base PG/CPU to be high enough to fit what they need, a bonus to PG/CPU fitting on weapons is not the right way to deal with PG/CPU on this class.
Assault bonuses should be to help overcome the weakness of a particular weapon type.
Being:
Gallente - Range Caldari - Dispersion Minmater - Clip size (due to high RoF) Amarr - Overheat
So we sort of have that for min and amarr assaults already, and those two classes have clear reasons to choose scout vs assault.
I do think we need more rifle nerfs to make these bonuses more pronounced though, just like was done with equipment.
Rail Weaponry - Needs a nerf to hip fire dispersion (maybe a slight damage increase to bring back to par) Combat Rifles - Need a damage reduction and an equivalent RoF boost to bring their dps back to original value. Gallente weaponry - Further reduction to range on some as needed Amarr weaponry - Increase to heat cost
Now change:
Caldari Assault Bonus: Reduced dispersion on rail weaponry per level Gallente Assault Bonus: Increased range of plasma weaponry per level. Minmatar Assault Bonus: Increased clip size of projectile weaponry per level. Amarr Assault Bonus: Decreased heat cost of laser weaponry per level.
6-7% should be the target for these bonuses.
In this way, logis, scouts, and heavies can run gimped versions of light weapon rifles while the assault suit is necessary to really make them shine.
Finally change it so that assault and logis have the same base hp and High/Low slot layout.
If Logis are still underpowered, it might be time to give them all sidearm slots. The bonuses should be reason enough to run assault over slayer logi. |
RINON114
B.S.A.A. General Tso's Alliance
562
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 21:53:00 -
[38] - Quote
ZDub 303 wrote:They just need their bonuses completely reworked, its very clear CCP has no clue what to do with the bonuses for assaults.
Just look at amarr, there IS a reason to run Amarr Assault over Amarr Scout... the laser weaponry heat build up bonus. I think we need to focus more on this.
The role bonus is bogus, 25% weapon fitting is a joke and everyone knows it. I would, personally, change this to a 3% per level on shield and armor module efficacy. Increase their base PG/CPU to be high enough to fit what they need, a bonus to PG/CPU fitting on weapons is not the right way to deal with PG/CPU on this class.
Assault bonuses should be to help overcome the weakness of a particular weapon type.
Being:
Gallente - Range Caldari - Dispersion Minmater - Clip size (due to high RoF) Amarr - Overheat
So we sort of have that for min and amarr assaults already, and those two classes have clear reasons to choose scout vs assault.
I do think we need more rifle nerfs to make these bonuses more pronounced though, just like was done with equipment.
Rail Weaponry - Needs a nerf to hip fire dispersion (maybe a slight damage increase to bring back to par) Combat Rifles - Need a damage reduction and an equivalent RoF boost to bring their dps back to original value. Gallente weaponry - Further reduction to range on some as needed Amarr weaponry - Increase to heat cost
Now change:
Caldari Assault Bonus: Reduced dispersion on rail weaponry per level Gallente Assault Bonus: Increased range of plasma weaponry per level. Minmatar Assault Bonus: Increased clip size of projectile weaponry per level. Amarr Assault Bonus: Decreased heat cost of laser weaponry per level.
6-7% should be the target for these bonuses.
In this way, logis, scouts, and heavies can run gimped versions of light weapon rifles while the assault suit is necessary to really make them shine.
Finally change it so that assault and logis have the same base hp and High/Low slot layout.
If Logis are still underpowered, it might be time to give them all sidearm slots. The bonuses should be reason enough to run assault over slayer logi. I agree with you on everything except the last part. Logis do not need a buff at all, they are balanced well with other classes. The logi, if anything is OP as hell, due to it's inherent ability to truly be the jack of all trades. The logi is not bound by any PG/CPU limits as they can easily just take off a piece of equipment or use lower tiered equipment and still have room for all those complex mods. The same can be said in reverse, if a logi wants proto equipment, then they run lower tiered mods.
The assault does not get this choice and neither does any other specialisation.
Therefore, if anything, the logi needs a nerf. However, I think the logi is in a good place amongst all other dropsuits except for the assault suit.
Buff the assault suit, nothing else needs to be changed.
Edit: As for the proposed changes you want to make for the assault suit skills, they still don't really pack that punch that other specialisations do. What might be interesting is if assaults got bonuses to speed and stamina as a role bonus, or something that lets them get into and out of engagements quickly. It's also important that we, as a community, figure out what the assault role should be doing. |
Monkey MAC
Rough Riders..
2334
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 21:58:00 -
[39] - Quote
Funkmaster Whale wrote:I remember some time ago CCP spoke about introducing an equipment type that would act as a deployable shield of sorts. Essentially it would act similar to a nanohive except that the surrounding bubble would act as a barrier allowing the user to create his own temporary cover.
As we now see with Scouts, CCP has begun to introduce "abilities" to classes. Yes, everyone can equip a cloak, but Scouts are the target audience while everyone else must incur penalties if they wish to make use of them. How about introduce something similar with Assaults?
Introducing "Bubble shields" or whatever you'd call them and giving Assaults a 75% fitting reduction to them would give Assaults something unique and identifyable to the battlefield. These bubbles would act as shields that can neither be penetrated from inside or out (by damage, not suits) until some threshold of damage was reached. The problem being that Assaults would also possibly require a second equipment slot. It's tricky, but I'm interested if it's something that would actually benefit Assaults.
Of course, a few other things need to be addressed like the racial bonuses, slots, and suit stats but I think this would at least give Assault suits an identity.
Thoughts?
I think the Shield Bubble is more of a Logi/Medic thing. Assaults need something like a laser designator, that allows you to send support requests to the field commamder. or when T3 weapons get released, the ability to mod them mid-firefight.
Unless your a Computer Scientist don't tell me how Game Mechanics Work.
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl 2.
|
Asha Starwind
DUST University Ivy League
689
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 22:03:00 -
[40] - Quote
In other words something akin to the assault's over shield from PS2. I guess it could work in say the form of personal shield armor hardeners .
Mad Bomber - 50% less profile
Return dumbfire to Swarms
|
|
ZDub 303
TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback
2420
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 22:42:00 -
[41] - Quote
RINON114 wrote:Edit: As for the proposed changes you want to make for the assault suit skills, they still don't really pack that punch that other specialisations do. What might be interesting is if assaults got bonuses to speed and stamina as a role bonus, or something that lets them get into and out of engagements quickly. It's also important that we, as a community, figure out what the assault role should be doing.
What is to differentiate scouts from assaults then if all assault suits got was increased speed and stamina? No I don't like that at all, its about as bad as the weapon fit bonus imo.
If assault suits are too slow, then they should just increase their speed.
A bonus to the rifles is the right way to do it imo. The amarr bonus is well loved, it 'packs a punch' as you say, I truly believe that is the model we need to follow for the other suits.
Otherwise its just a scout suit with more EHP and less EWAR... not interesting at all imo. |
STEALTH HUNTER ZERO
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
265
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 22:54:00 -
[42] - Quote
I think the first easy and simple solution to buffing assaults is to give them Plenty of cpu/pg to fit damn near ALL modules and weapon slots with proto gear on a proto suit.... and probably adding 1-2 more slots to whichever tank they have. So cal and min would get another high or 2 and the gal and amarr would get another low or 2, there problem pretty much solved. I wouldn't be against giving them a bonus to certain modules or future equipment/modules though if the above isn't enough. |
Auris Lionesse
Capital Acquisitions LLC Dirt Nap Squad.
630
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 02:10:00 -
[43] - Quote
Make them the heavy assault cruisers of dust
amarr assault get 3% armor hp and 3% armor resistances per medium level the same overheat bonus and an additional laser bonus. Now the assault gets two bonuses for the medium skill that they need to get assaults, and bonuses from the assault skill itself.
Fix the caldari suit recharge rates and give them a 7.5 % regulator buff and 3% shield resistances per level. Lower energizers a bit or increase the penalty. then assault gives them a bonus to all hybrids like eve does. Optimal range-dispersion-reload. Pick two or add your own that are caldari themed. (they should have more missile weapons which would make it easy with a velocity/flight time bonus. But we have to wait for ccp for that. The idea is to get it to where at max suit level 5medium, 5 assault and max shield skills and all low slots dedicated to regulators you get close to passive recharge like the caldari logistics used to. I think cal got around to half of a second. A proper dedicated shield tank until you get fluxed.
Gallente depends on what happens with ferroscale, reactive, and repair modules. They need to be buffed because it wouldnt be fair to give the gallente giant bonuses to them to get them where they should be working for gallente. Anyway medium gives ferroscale/reactive bonus and armor repairer bonus. assault skill gives 2 gallente themed hybrid bonuses (to all hybrids, just like caldari, they share hybrids) like small damage bonus, rof, or whatever. and fix the other hybrid weapons that are already broken. ar is supposed to be highest damage. Not combat rifle. especially when combat rifle has longer range than an ar.
Minmatar get a sprint, strafe, movement speed bonus and if they're slots stay the same I guess some kind of small shield bonus like caldari. Or damage mod bonus and forgo tanking altogether. They can keep they're current ammo bonus and get another min themed bonus. Rof, falloff. I'm not sure what direction to take minmatar. Leave that up to ccp or the minmatar community. Combat rifle would be rebalanced so it's not outdoing the ar in it's own area.
All assaults switch slot layouts with logis get the CPU and pg to fit them and lose they're equipment slot. you don't need equipment on a killing suit. Your now relying on logi support to heal/resupply/spawn in/get revived. I'd argue axe the sidearm altogether on assaults
Mediums act as the current assaults. 1 equipment. 1 sidearm, 1 light weapon, 1 grenade slot and make them cheaper than logis or assaults.
do this for all specialized suits, 4 bonuses and requires two suit skills to maximize effectiveness.
Gallente Heavy Ninja Turtles! Gallente Heavy Ninja Turtles!
Heroes in a half Gank!
TURTLE POWER!!!
|
Funkmaster Whale
Ancient Exiles.
1685
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 02:31:00 -
[44] - Quote
Auris Lionesse wrote:Make them the heavy assault cruisers of dust
amarr assault get 3% armor hp and 3% armor resistances per medium level the same overheat bonus and an additional laser bonus. Now the assault gets two bonuses for the medium skill that they need to get assaults, and bonuses from the assault skill itself.
Fix the caldari suit recharge rates and give them a 7.5 % regulator buff and 3% shield resistances per level. Lower energizers a bit or increase the penalty. then assault gives them a bonus to all hybrids like eve does. Optimal range-dispersion-reload. Pick two or add your own that are caldari themed. (they should have more missile weapons which would make it easy with a velocity/flight time bonus. But we have to wait for ccp for that. The idea is to get it to where at max suit level 5medium, 5 assault and max shield skills and all low slots dedicated to regulators you get close to passive recharge like the caldari logistics used to. I think cal got around to half of a second. A proper dedicated shield tank until you get fluxed.
Gallente depends on what happens with ferroscale, reactive, and repair modules. They need to be buffed because it wouldnt be fair to give the gallente giant bonuses to them to get them where they should be working for gallente. Anyway medium gives ferroscale/reactive bonus and armor repairer bonus. assault skill gives 2 gallente themed hybrid bonuses (to all hybrids, just like caldari, they share hybrids) like small damage bonus, rof, or whatever. and fix the other hybrid weapons that are already broken. ar is supposed to be highest damage. Not combat rifle. especially when combat rifle has longer range than an ar.
Minmatar get a sprint, strafe, movement speed bonus and if they're slots stay the same I guess some kind of small shield bonus like caldari. Or damage mod bonus and forgo tanking altogether. They can keep they're current ammo bonus and get another min themed bonus. Rof, falloff. I'm not sure what direction to take minmatar. Leave that up to ccp or the minmatar community. Combat rifle would be rebalanced so it's not outdoing the ar in it's own area.
All assaults switch slot layouts with logis get the CPU and pg to fit them and lose they're equipment slot. you don't need equipment on a killing suit. Your now relying on logi support to heal/resupply/spawn in/get revived. I'd argue axe the sidearm altogether on assaults
Mediums act as the current assaults. 1 equipment. 1 sidearm, 1 light weapon, 1 grenade slot and make them cheaper than logis or assaults.
do this for all specialized suits, 4 bonuses and requires two suit skills to maximize effectiveness.
I like the idea behind giving the Medium suit skill a bonus. This would have to somehow be applied to the rest of the frames as well if it were to happen.
It would at least give people a reason to max out the basic frame skills.
Let me play you the song of my people!
|
Auris Lionesse
Capital Acquisitions LLC Dirt Nap Squad.
633
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 02:44:00 -
[45] - Quote
Funkmaster Whale wrote:Auris Lionesse wrote:Make them the heavy assault cruisers of dust
amarr assault get 3% armor hp and 3% armor resistances per medium level the same overheat bonus and an additional laser bonus. Now the assault gets two bonuses for the medium skill that they need to get assaults, and bonuses from the assault skill itself.
Fix the caldari suit recharge rates and give them a 7.5 % regulator buff and 3% shield resistances per level. Lower energizers a bit or increase the penalty. then assault gives them a bonus to all hybrids like eve does. Optimal range-dispersion-reload. Pick two or add your own that are caldari themed. (they should have more missile weapons which would make it easy with a velocity/flight time bonus. But we have to wait for ccp for that. The idea is to get it to where at max suit level 5medium, 5 assault and max shield skills and all low slots dedicated to regulators you get close to passive recharge like the caldari logistics used to. I think cal got around to half of a second. A proper dedicated shield tank until you get fluxed.
Gallente depends on what happens with ferroscale, reactive, and repair modules. They need to be buffed because it wouldnt be fair to give the gallente giant bonuses to them to get them where they should be working for gallente. Anyway medium gives ferroscale/reactive bonus and armor repairer bonus. assault skill gives 2 gallente themed hybrid bonuses (to all hybrids, just like caldari, they share hybrids) like small damage bonus, rof, or whatever. and fix the other hybrid weapons that are already broken. ar is supposed to be highest damage. Not combat rifle. especially when combat rifle has longer range than an ar.
Minmatar get a sprint, strafe, movement speed bonus and if they're slots stay the same I guess some kind of small shield bonus like caldari. Or damage mod bonus and forgo tanking altogether. They can keep they're current ammo bonus and get another min themed bonus. Rof, falloff. I'm not sure what direction to take minmatar. Leave that up to ccp or the minmatar community. Combat rifle would be rebalanced so it's not outdoing the ar in it's own area.
All assaults switch slot layouts with logis get the CPU and pg to fit them and lose they're equipment slot. you don't need equipment on a killing suit. Your now relying on logi support to heal/resupply/spawn in/get revived. I'd argue axe the sidearm altogether on assaults
Mediums act as the current assaults. 1 equipment. 1 sidearm, 1 light weapon, 1 grenade slot and make them cheaper than logis or assaults.
do this for all specialized suits, 4 bonuses and requires two suit skills to maximize effectiveness.
I like the idea behind giving the Medium suit skill a bonus. This would have to somehow be applied to the rest of the frames as well if it were to happen. It would at least give people a reason to max out the basic frame skills.
That's the idea. Now you have to specialize to bring out the best in your suit. The bonuses I mentioned are only for assaults. The basic medium skill doesn't actually give a bonus but any suit that uses it as a pre requisite gets unique bonuses from it just like eve. This way we do t get into stupid situations like drupsuit upgrades where there is literally no reason to level it past 4. You don't unlock anything for it. logis would get logi themed bonuses from having a higher medium skill and it let's you strt out with a better basic logi or assault because you already have to get to 3 medium to unlock it. scouts get bonuses from the light skill. Sentinels and commados get bonuses from the heavy skill.
Gallente Heavy Ninja Turtles! Gallente Heavy Ninja Turtles!
Heroes in a half Gank!
TURTLE POWER!!!
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 [2] :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |