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One Eyed King
Land of the BIind
827
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Posted - 2014.03.28 17:27:00 -
[1] - Quote
As I have been considering the issues that have taken 1.8 from a great patch to a good patch, I found myself thinking of the huge advantage some scouts have in terms of scanning.
The theory is that if caldari make significant sacrifices, they can scan everyone. All the time, without cool down, activation time, "You have been scanned warnings" etc.
I like this because it makes them more vulnerable to the strengths of others because they can't tank, overly dampen, add damage mods etc.
Sharing passive scout scans enables the rest of the squad to enjoy the benefits of the scanning without themselves making the fitting sacrifice.
Tanking a scout should mean reduced scanning capacity. Not with shared scout passive scans.
With the extra HP of heavies, they are naturally less able to see reds on tacnet. Not with shared scout passive scans.
I think this overlooked mechanic has created some of the imbalance in 1.8, with whole squads being able to use the passive scans of the scouts within the squad. I think a byproduct of this imbalance is that cloaks become more of a necessity for some than a choice.
Lastly, shared scans are what active scanners are for. They have limits with cool down times and scan times, as well as limited ranges. They warn you that you have been scanned. I think they are now balanced, but negated by shared scout passive scans.
TL;DR Check out the underlined portion.
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Spademan
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
1030
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Posted - 2014.03.28 17:48:00 -
[2] - Quote
What if passive scans continued to be shared, but only if the one it's being shared with has the precision to detect them?
For example, Blue 1 has precision of 30, blue 2 has precision of 40, red 1 has profile of 35 and red 2 has a profile of 45.
Blue one passively scans the two reds and can detect their movements, blue 2 however, can only see the red with the profile of 45, but from blue 1's scan.
So essentially, you can scan with your precision over your squadmates radius, but can only see those that your squadmate can already see if you have the precision to see them.
I am part shovel, part man, full scout, and a little bit special.
Official Time Lord of the Scout Community
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One Eyed King
Land of the BIind
827
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Posted - 2014.03.28 17:52:00 -
[3] - Quote
It sounds complicated, but I would be ok with that. It still eliminates the problem of mercs who make no fitting sacrifice to have a dampened scout show up on tacnet just because one person in the squad has lots of precision enhancers.
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Auris Lionesse
Capital Acquisitions LLC
Dirt Nap Squad.
590
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Posted - 2014.03.28 17:53:00 -
[4] - Quote
nah active scanners are worthless now. Being a scout means your a giant active scanner.
It's only fair because Ccp fundamentally changed scanners and didn't respec suit upgrades.
Gallente Heavy Ninja Turtles! Gallente Heavy Ninja Turtles!
Heroes in a half Gank!
TURTLE POWER!!!
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One Eyed King
Land of the BIind
827
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Posted - 2014.03.28 18:01:00 -
[5] - Quote
Auris Lionesse wrote:nah active scanners are worthless now. Being a scout means your a giant active scanner.
It's only fair because Ccp fundamentally changed scanners and didn't respec suit upgrades.
This is precisely my point. Active scanners should have the advantage of showing up for the whole squad. In looking at the scanning chart, there is a scanner that can pick up all but the most dampened (ie running several complex dampeners) and cloaked scouts. This would be helpful to a squad, but not if a caldari with precision enhancers can already share that info with the squad.
I am ok with the caldari being able to have that passive scan, as that is a significant fitting sacrifice. I don't think that negates active scanners, as logis, assaults, and scouts who are unable to make fits that scan as well still find benefit with them.
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Sana Rayya
WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL
Top Men.
1228
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Posted - 2014.03.28 18:05:00 -
[6] - Quote
I'm not positive if passive scans are 100% shared with the squad. I haven't tested it extensively, but it seemed like passive scans would light up enemies for another squad member only for a few seconds, then disappear. They would reappear if those enemies left the scan radius and returned (hence "refreshing" the scan).
If it works like the above, then squadmates don't benefit from the always-on nature of the passives in the same way that the scanning scout does. So I don't think they need a change. |
Django Quik
Dust2Dust.
2577
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Posted - 2014.03.28 18:29:00 -
[7] - Quote
Shared scan is really the only thing that makes cal scouts (and other scouts to a lesser extent) useful as a teammate. We have no way to relay positions to squadmates another way unless using a mic and even then, it's not always easy to direct people.
Instead of nerfing seriously important aspects to certain scout set-ups, we should focus our attention on bringing other set-ups up to scratch, so they can compete much better in the areas they're supposed to be king of (e.g. assaults assaulting).
Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot
Scout community is the nuts
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Ultra Boomer3
HavoK Core
RISE of LEGION
290
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Posted - 2014.03.28 18:38:00 -
[8] - Quote
no, just... no. they already moved it from team to squad, which was an unwelcome change in my view. don't mess it up further.
Name: Ultra Boomer3.
Class: Heavy.
Specialty: Forge Gun.
Corp: Havok Core.
Loyalty: HavoK Core.
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One Eyed King
Land of the BIind
828
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Posted - 2014.03.28 20:41:00 -
[9] - Quote
Sana Rayya wrote:I'm not positive if passive scans are 100% shared with the squad. I haven't tested it extensively, but it seemed like passive scans would light up enemies for another squad member only for a few seconds, then disappear. They would reappear if those enemies left the scan radius and returned (hence "refreshing" the scan).
If it works like the above, then squadmates don't benefit from the always-on nature of the passives in the same way that the scanning scout does. So I don't think they need a change.
I think you are right if it works as you think it might. I was under the impression that it was always on, just like personal passive scans are.
I am not sure if it has been clearly stated somewhere how shared scanning actually works, which is certainly a first step.
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Matticus Monk
Ordus Trismegistus
1520
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Posted - 2014.03.28 23:49:00 -
[10] - Quote
Situational awareness is SO key in this game that being able to perma-scan almost every dropsuit is an incredible tactical advantage for any one player.
If scans are shared (I haven't tested myself) with an entire squad this seems borderline OP.... especially if you've got a few caldari scouts overlapping scan ranges. You could lock down an objective easily with 2-3 guys or have a roaming death squad of 3-4 damage dealers and 2 caldari scouts with long range weaponry. This smacks of 360 ballerina scans with the active scanner and leaves a very bad taste in my mouth.
I think it's way more balanced to have shared squad sight disabled in the near term, at least until things settle down with the whole EWAR game.
This makes the situation worse for those with poor scan ranges and precisions like heavies and assaults... but that is what active scanners are for.
Double posting like a Kaiser.
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Melchiah ARANeAE
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
520
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Posted - 2014.03.29 00:44:00 -
[11] - Quote
Scout - A soldier or other person sent out ahead of a main force so as to gather information about the enemy's position, strength, or movements.
Need I say more?
We want cake and tea.
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zzZaXxx
G.L.O.R.Y
RISE of LEGION
269
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Posted - 2014.03.29 05:19:00 -
[12] - Quote
Django Quik wrote:Shared scan is really the only thing that makes cal scouts (and other scouts to a lesser extent) useful as a teammate. We have no way to relay positions to squadmates another way unless using a mic and even then, it's not always easy to direct people.
Instead of nerfing seriously important aspects to certain scout set-ups, we should focus our attention on bringing other set-ups up to scratch, so they can compete much better in the areas they're supposed to be king of (e.g. assaults assaulting).
Yes, and this can be done for people who like to active scan by making scanners less of a snapshot but still too brief to 360. |
IZI doro
Mannar Focused Warfare
Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2014.03.29 20:47:00 -
[13] - Quote
I personally think that scan sharing, both active and passive, should be shared with ALL blues within a vicinity but with certain restrictions.
-Active/Passive scans are only shared with those inside your immediate vicinity:
The "immediate vicinity" would be the augmented passive scan value. Personnel within your passive scan radius will receive the same passive scan intel as you
Active scan data will be relayed to all personnel within a DIAMETER the same size as its scan range (i.e. 100m~150m = 50m~75m radius to share intel)
-Intel is only shared with the closest five (5) personnel within the local area network:
This means that the 5 blues closest to you will know what you know.
-Squad members receive priority whenever TACNET intel is being distributed:
This means that even if there are multiple persons within the area, your data is prioritized to be received by those in the same channel as you
This setup would reward active scanners, squad positioning, coordinated movements and allow squadless mercs to no longer be in the dark in regards to situational awareness |
Cinder Integ
Ancient Exiles.
Dirt Nap Squad.
155
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Posted - 2014.03.29 22:40:00 -
[14] - Quote
Passive Scan Sharing doesn't exsist. Stop being silly... Thanks
Trading Carrots for Isk! Come and Get em!
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One Eyed King
Land of the BIind
865
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Posted - 2014.03.29 22:44:00 -
[15] - Quote
Cinder Integ wrote:Passive Scan Sharing doesn't exsist. Stop being silly... Thanks
I have seen way too many reds popping up on my radar that are beyond my own scanning abilities that were not actively scanned to say this doesn't exist.
Many of the players that have run in nearly scout exclusive squads have noticed passive scanning since the last build.
If you can find an explanation for that other than shared passive scans I am all ears.
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XxGhazbaranxX
The New Age Outlaws
WINMATAR.
1243
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Posted - 2014.03.30 00:00:00 -
[16] - Quote
Passive scan sharing was in the game before 1.8. When CCP removed squad sights it was only field of view sharing. In 1.7 when I was running my proto scout in 1.7 poeple could see what I scanned with it.
Plasma Cannon Advocate
Heavy event survivor
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