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Joseph Ridgeson
WarRavens League of Infamy
799
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Posted - 2014.03.27 06:07:00 -
[1] - Quote
I always hear the same thing whenever someone brings up Assault suit balance or that they lack a role. "Their role is to assault locations and kill people. They can do that so they have a role." That isn't a role; that is just using their name in a sentence and describing them doing something that anyone can do (kill people). Would be like saying "the point of the Logistics is to do logistics and kill people so they have a role."
With the addition of cloaks, Scouts now have something that they can do better than anyone else. They can hide, flank, and escape better than any other suit because of the ease of fitting cloaks. Neat. So this is the current status:
Scout: Cloak. Assassin, flanking, escaping, being invisible. Their bonuses help them fit a cloak, evade capture, find people, or steal objectives. It all fits into being sneaky. Sentinel: Tanky; point defense, pushing. Their bonuses make them far more resistant to splash weapons, useful considering their slow speed, and more resistant against specific weaponry (the weapon of choice against their hated enemy and a smaller resistance against their ally's weapon). Commando: Weapon versatility, high defenses, lots and lots of damage. Bonus allows them to reload faster and deal more damage with their chosen weapon type. Logistics: Support; they are now flat out the best for using equipment. Blanket bonus helps to fit equipment and racial bonus makes their racial equipment better. Assaults: What do they do better than the other suits? (Honest question) Blanket bonus helps them fit light weapon and sidearm and either help them in prolonged engagement (Amarr-Minmatar), close range (Gallente), or reload faster (Caldari). There is a distinct lack of consistency between the racial assault bonuses compared to the racial bonuses of the other suit types.
All other non-Assault suits I can look at and immediately see where they are supposed to shine. Assaults don't really seem to have that. They have nothing where they can just proclaim "I am the best at this thing; I do it better than anyone else." Before cloaks, Scouts were kind of in the same boat. They were harder to find but really any suit could flank and kill people. Now with cloaks, Scouts can do it better than the other guys.
Of course, I am not even sure what Assaults would get or do in order to make their role significant beyond "you are a medium suit that kills people."
"People that quote themselves in signatures confuse me." -Joseph Ridgeson
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Jadek Menaheim
Xer Cloud Consortium
2450
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Posted - 2014.03.27 06:12:00 -
[2] - Quote
I would opt for bonuses that define Assault Suits as the "Jack of All Trades, Master of None."
Video: I don't always fight dropships, but when I do...
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Auris Lionesse
Capital Acquisitions LLC Dirt Nap Squad.
575
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Posted - 2014.03.27 06:24:00 -
[3] - Quote
Jadek Menaheim wrote:I would opt for bonuses that define Assault Suits as the "Jack of All Trades, Master of None."
Completely wrong. That's the basic frames with no roles.
Assaults are slayers.
Also to op they need a new role bonus. 25% weapon fitting is completely useless. Scouts and logis can fit any weapon and have more CPU/PG than an assault.
It's not a bonus.
Gallente Heavy Ninja Turtles! Gallente Heavy Ninja Turtles!
Heroes in a half Gank!
TURTLE POWER!!!
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Atiim
Living Like Larry Schwag
6229
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Posted - 2014.03.27 06:32:00 -
[4] - Quote
Auris Lionesse wrote: Completely wrong. That's the basic frames with no roles.
Assaults are slayers.
Also to op they need a new role bonus. 25% weapon fitting is completely useless. Scouts and logis can fit any weapon and have more CPU/PG than an assault. It's not a bonus.
LOL
The Basic Frames have the exact same fitting layout and CPU/PG as it's Assault counterpart, but with 50% less SP required and no bonuses. Other than a useless coloring and label, they serve the same role.
Come to think of it, why do people even use the Assault suits over Basic Frames?
The Snack That Smiles Back! "Swarmers"
[s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through
-HAND
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Aero Yassavi
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
7816
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Posted - 2014.03.27 06:37:00 -
[5] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Auris Lionesse wrote: Completely wrong. That's the basic frames with no roles.
Assaults are slayers.
Also to op they need a new role bonus. 25% weapon fitting is completely useless. Scouts and logis can fit any weapon and have more CPU/PG than an assault. It's not a bonus.
LOL The Basic Frames have the exact same fitting layout and CPU/PG as it's Assault counterpart, but with 50% less SP required and no bonuses. Other than a useless coloring and label, they serve the same role. Come to think of it, why do people even use the Assault suits over Basic Frames? Basic frames cost more ISK.
Amarr Victor
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Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
4624
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Posted - 2014.03.27 06:40:00 -
[6] - Quote
Actually, Heavies aren't the ones good for pushing. They're good for HOLDING, but ASSAULTS are the ones who push the enemy line back.
The Assault is a viable flanker, but a better frontline suit. Assaults create the line, Heavies hold it. Scouts break the line, and Logis reinforce it. Commandos are DPS-focused Heavies while Sentinels are defense-focused, but both have the same primary role with different approaches to how they perform it.
Assault bonuses help them in their role as relatively fast and relatively durable suits for the front line. |
Atiim
Living Like Larry Schwag
6229
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Posted - 2014.03.27 06:41:00 -
[7] - Quote
Aero Yassavi wrote: Basic frames cost more ISK.
Would you pay a bit more ISK for a Commando if it meant only having to spend half the SP you normally would??
The Snack That Smiles Back! "Swarmers"
[s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through
-HAND
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Meee One
Hello Kitty Commandos
599
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Posted - 2014.03.27 06:49:00 -
[8] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:Actually, Heavies aren't the ones good for pushing. They're good for HOLDING, but ASSAULTS are the ones who push the enemy line back.
The Assault is a viable flanker, but a better frontline suit. Assaults break the line, Heavies hold it. Scouts sneak through the line, and Logis reinforce it. Commandos are DPS-focused Heavies while Sentinels are defense-focused, but both have the same primary role with different approaches to how they perform it.
Assault bonuses help them in their role as relatively fast and relatively durable suits for the front line.
FTFY
But currently scouts break better than assaults.
I game over like a boss.
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Auris Lionesse
Capital Acquisitions LLC Dirt Nap Squad.
575
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Posted - 2014.03.27 06:52:00 -
[9] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Auris Lionesse wrote: Completely wrong. That's the basic frames with no roles.
Assaults are slayers.
Also to op they need a new role bonus. 25% weapon fitting is completely useless. Scouts and logis can fit any weapon and have more CPU/PG than an assault. It's not a bonus.
LOL The Basic Frames have the exact same fitting layout and CPU/PG as it's Assault counterpart, but with 50% less SP required and no bonuses. Other than a useless coloring and label, they serve the same role. Come to think of it, why do people even use the Assault suits over Basic Frames?
This is the problem with assaults. Theyre outclassed in their own role by all the others. They have no good bonuses except for amarr. They have no role bonus as I've already said. They don't have good enough vase stats and they don't have enough slots. Basics are currently worthless whereas they're supposed to be the everymans versatile suit.
Gallente Heavy Ninja Turtles! Gallente Heavy Ninja Turtles!
Heroes in a half Gank!
TURTLE POWER!!!
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Auris Lionesse
Capital Acquisitions LLC Dirt Nap Squad.
575
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Posted - 2014.03.27 06:53:00 -
[10] - Quote
Meee One wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:Actually, Heavies aren't the ones good for pushing. They're good for HOLDING, but ASSAULTS are the ones who push the enemy line back.
The Assault is a viable flanker, but a better frontline suit. Assaults break the line, Heavies hold it. Scouts sneak through the line, and Logis reinforce it. Commandos are DPS-focused Heavies while Sentinels are defense-focused, but both have the same primary role with different approaches to how they perform it.
Assault bonuses help them in their role as relatively fast and relatively durable suits for the front line. FTFY But currently scouts break better than assaults.
And assaults don't have any bonuses.
Gallente Heavy Ninja Turtles! Gallente Heavy Ninja Turtles!
Heroes in a half Gank!
TURTLE POWER!!!
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KGB Sleep
912
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Posted - 2014.03.27 06:55:00 -
[11] - Quote
Hmm Assaults need to be better at assaulting.
Oh I know what to do!
Buff Aim Assist for Assaults.
Skill node and call it "Combat Training"
+5% stickier reticle per level.
I'm just kidding, you can change your diapers now.
Because beer, that's why.
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Fizzer94
L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
2404
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Posted - 2014.03.27 06:55:00 -
[12] - Quote
I've had no problem with my Amarr Assault. Like always , that bonus is really useful.
Due to similarities, I would imagine the Minmatar Assaults are enjoying their bonus as well. Apparently they don't like their lower EHP, but that's what you get with Minmatar stuff.
I've even heard Caldari Assaults praising their bonus. Which is surprising, considering they didn't want it just 3 days ago.
Mixed reactions for the Gallente bonus. The biggest complaint is that it improves some weapons, but makes other worse.
Fizzer94 // Forum Warrior Operation II // MAG Vet
Gallente Neutron Rifle
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Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
4624
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Posted - 2014.03.27 06:55:00 -
[13] - Quote
Meee One wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:Actually, Heavies aren't the ones good for pushing. They're good for HOLDING, but ASSAULTS are the ones who push the enemy line back.
The Assault is a viable flanker, but a better frontline suit. Assaults break the line, Heavies hold it. Scouts sneak through the line, and Logis reinforce it. Commandos are DPS-focused Heavies while Sentinels are defense-focused, but both have the same primary role with different approaches to how they perform it.
Assault bonuses help them in their role as relatively fast and relatively durable suits for the front line. FTFY But currently scouts break better than assaults. Not sure what you fixed.
Different wording of the same concept.
Scouts don't stick with the line, they break through and mess with it instead of actually pushing. |
Joseph Ridgeson
WarRavens League of Infamy
801
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 08:56:00 -
[14] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:Actually, Heavies aren't the ones good for pushing. They're good for HOLDING, but ASSAULTS are the ones who push the enemy line back.
The Assault is a viable flanker, but a better frontline suit. Assaults create the line, Heavies hold it. Scouts break the line, and Logis reinforce it. Commandos are DPS-focused Heavies while Sentinels are defense-focused, but both have the same primary role with different approaches to how they perform it.
Assault bonuses help them in their role as relatively fast and relatively durable suits for the front line.
Heavies are basically needed for breaking through a heavily defended point. They are slow so they don't travel well but "when you need a door kicked in", call a Heavy. An HMG has the same role that I have seen in TF2. Hold the line or break it if the line is really close.
You did the same thing I see all the time "Assaults make up the frontline troops." As it stands, "assault" is an ill defined role that isn't based on any kind of suit. If a Logistics suit gets more health, similar speed, and does the same damage, they are clearly better for the concept of a "frontline soldier." The assault bonuses are not aimed at all or if they are aimed they are aimed poorly. I cannot look at any Assault suit and say "they are meant to do this."
"People that quote themselves in signatures confuse me." -Joseph Ridgeson
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Korvin Lomont
United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION
836
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Posted - 2014.03.27 09:14:00 -
[15] - Quote
Joseph Ridgeson wrote:I always hear the same thing whenever someone brings up Assault suit balance or that they lack a role. "Their role is to assault locations and kill people. They can do that so they have a role." That isn't a role; that is just using their name in a sentence and describing them doing something that anyone can do (kill people). Would be like saying "the point of the Logistics is to do logistics and kill people so they have a role."
With the addition of cloaks, Scouts now have something that they can do better than anyone else. They can hide, flank, and escape better than any other suit because of the ease of fitting cloaks. Neat. So this is the current status:
Scout: Cloak. Assassin, flanking, escaping, being invisible. Their bonuses help them fit a cloak, evade capture, find people, or steal objectives. It all fits into being sneaky. Sentinel: Tanky; point defense, pushing. Their bonuses make them far more resistant to splash weapons, useful considering their slow speed, and more resistant against specific weaponry (the weapon of choice against their hated enemy and a smaller resistance against their ally's weapon). Commando: Weapon versatility, high defenses, lots and lots of damage. Bonus allows them to reload faster and deal more damage with their chosen weapon type. Logistics: Support; they are now flat out the best for using equipment. Blanket bonus helps to fit equipment and racial bonus makes their racial equipment better. Assaults: What do they do better than the other suits? (Honest question) Blanket bonus helps them fit light weapon and sidearm and either help them in prolonged engagement (Amarr-Minmatar), close range (Gallente), or reload faster (Caldari). There is a distinct lack of consistency between the racial assault bonuses compared to the racial bonuses of the other suit types.
All other non-Assault suits I can look at and immediately see where they are supposed to shine. Assaults don't really seem to have that. They have nothing where they can just proclaim "I am the best at this thing; I do it better than anyone else." Before cloaks, Scouts were kind of in the same boat. They were harder to find but really any suit could flank and kill people. Now with cloaks, Scouts can do it better than the other guys.
Of course, I am not even sure what Assaults would get or do in order to make their role significant beyond "you are a medium suit that kills people."
First off cloak is not restricted to scouts any suit with equipment slots can use it. The logi even gets a bonus to it currently. Secondly the cloak is in most cases garbage the shimmer is way too strong when walking...so seeing a cloaked scout on the move (walking not sprinting) is not hard.
And finally cloaking is by no means a role, scouting would be a role but CCP decided that scouting is bad for scouts so they removed that... |
Lorhak Gannarsein
Science For Death
2432
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Posted - 2014.03.27 09:18:00 -
[16] - Quote
If heavies are excellent brick tankers, I'd say assaults should be excellent regen tankers. Poor regen-per-second, perhaps, but low delays (or just good high numbers for armour). Scouts have the speed to disengage from combat where an assault typically does not.
ak.0 4 LYFE
Guess who's butthurt about light-assaults!?
<------This guy!!
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medomai grey
WarRavens League of Infamy
469
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Posted - 2014.03.27 09:21:00 -
[17] - Quote
Auris Lionesse wrote:Jadek Menaheim wrote:I would opt for bonuses that define Assault Suits as the "Jack of All Trades, Master of None." Completely wrong. That's the basic frames with no roles. Assaults are slayers. Also to op they need a new role bonus. 25% weapon fitting is completely useless. Scouts and logis can fit any weapon and have more CPU/PG than an assault. It's not a bonus. 25% fitting bonus is awesome. I can fit more proto gear on my proto suit.
I've been told that people prefer fake smiles over the honest expressions of their fellow men. : )
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Joseph Ridgeson
WarRavens League of Infamy
802
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Posted - 2014.03.27 09:24:00 -
[18] - Quote
Korvin Lomont wrote: First off cloak is not restricted to scouts any suit with equipment slots can use it. The logi even gets a bonus to it currently. Secondly the cloak is in most cases garbage the shimmer is way too strong when walking...so seeing a cloaked scout on the move (walking not sprinting) is not hard.
And finally cloaking is by no means a role, scouting would be a role but CCP decided that scouting is bad for scouts so they removed that...
Cloaking is not restricted, this is true. It is a bug that Logistics get a reduction to Cloaks though. So Scouts can fit cloak, which helps them play sneaky, better than anyone else once that silly little bug is fixed. Seeing a cloaked scout isn't impossible but it isn't incredibly easy either. Being focused on 100 things can mean that you miss the scout fairly easily, so it is useful. Cloaks don't have to be used for Scouting. A Scout can move and hide normally and when discovered they can use it to get away.
"Scout to Scouting" is the same kind of thing that "Assault to Assaulting" has; it is just saying the name of the suit and calling it a role. I think Scouts having the flanking, behind enemy lines feel now rather than literally "scouting." Assaults, at least from where I stand, have no role or anything they are better at than anyone else. Anyone, save for Sentinels, can throw down equipment to support their team but Logistics do it better. Anyone can be built super tanky but Sentinels do it better. Assaults don't seem to do anything better than any other suit at the moment, which is why I believe they lack a role.
"People that quote themselves in signatures confuse me." -Joseph Ridgeson
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Racro 01 Arifistan
501st Knights of Leanbox INTERGALACTIC WARPIGS
255
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Posted - 2014.03.27 09:25:00 -
[19] - Quote
Auris Lionesse wrote:Jadek Menaheim wrote:I would opt for bonuses that define Assault Suits as the "Jack of All Trades, Master of None." Completely wrong. That's the basic frames with no roles. Assaults are slayers. Also to op they need a new role bonus. 25% weapon fitting is completely useless. Scouts and logis can fit any weapon and have more CPU/PG than an assault. It's not a bonus.
techncially its a 50% reduction to fitting wepaons.
25% reduction to light 25% reduction to sidearm.
this allows the assault to BALANCE damage delaing and tank than any other suit can.
alot of suits have to pay full fitting for thier weapons and sacrifice a bit of tank or sacriicfe damage output for more tank.
the assautl is able to evenly balance between its damage dealing and tank.
my gallente assault gko has very good damge projection thanks to its bonuses and has a very stiff tank. many times i have seen/killed suits that have more EHP than me. simply due to my own skill and ability to wield a stong damage output from my breach assault rifle.
persoannly i dont see any probelm's with the assault suit. i can do any role just or almost as good as another suit.
Elite Gallenten Soldier
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Joseph Ridgeson
WarRavens League of Infamy
802
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Posted - 2014.03.27 09:29:00 -
[20] - Quote
medomai grey wrote:Auris Lionesse wrote:Jadek Menaheim wrote:I would opt for bonuses that define Assault Suits as the "Jack of All Trades, Master of None." Completely wrong. That's the basic frames with no roles. Assaults are slayers. Also to op they need a new role bonus. 25% weapon fitting is completely useless. Scouts and logis can fit any weapon and have more CPU/PG than an assault. It's not a bonus. 25% fitting bonus is awesome. I can fit more proto gear on my proto suit.
It is a bonus but very minor. If I were to fit a Prototype Rail and Magsec, I would save 41.25 CPU and 6 PG though it would actually be less CPU saved because of the suit as I would have at least some points in Light Weapon Operation and Sidearm Operation which reduced CPU. It is only of minor use for non-prototype weaponry.
"People that quote themselves in signatures confuse me." -Joseph Ridgeson
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Lorhak Gannarsein
Science For Death
2435
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Posted - 2014.03.27 09:38:00 -
[21] - Quote
Joseph Ridgeson wrote:medomai grey wrote:Auris Lionesse wrote:Jadek Menaheim wrote:I would opt for bonuses that define Assault Suits as the "Jack of All Trades, Master of None." Completely wrong. That's the basic frames with no roles. Assaults are slayers. Also to op they need a new role bonus. 25% weapon fitting is completely useless. Scouts and logis can fit any weapon and have more CPU/PG than an assault. It's not a bonus. 25% fitting bonus is awesome. I can fit more proto gear on my proto suit. It is a bonus but very minor. If I were to fit a Prototype Rail and Magsec, I would save 41.25 CPU and 6 PG though it would actually be less CPU saved because of the suit as I would have at least some points in Light Weapon Operation and Sidearm Operation which reduced CPU. It is only of minor use for non-prototype weaponry.
The only suit I consider it to be of use for is the Amarr Assault; I'm saving 5 PG from the gun alone.
ak.0 4 LYFE
Guess who's butthurt about light-assaults!?
<------This guy!!
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Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
4628
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Posted - 2014.03.27 10:01:00 -
[22] - Quote
Joseph Ridgeson wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:Actually, Heavies aren't the ones good for pushing. They're good for HOLDING, but ASSAULTS are the ones who push the enemy line back.
The Assault is a viable flanker, but a better frontline suit. Assaults create the line, Heavies hold it. Scouts break the line, and Logis reinforce it. Commandos are DPS-focused Heavies while Sentinels are defense-focused, but both have the same primary role with different approaches to how they perform it.
Assault bonuses help them in their role as relatively fast and relatively durable suits for the front line. Heavies are basically needed for breaking through a heavily defended point. They are slow so they don't travel well but "when you need a door kicked in", call a Heavy. An HMG has the same role that I have seen in TF2. Hold the line or break it if the line is really close. You did the same thing I see all the time "Assaults make up the frontline troops." As it stands, "assault" is an ill defined role that isn't based on any kind of suit. If a Logistics suit gets more health, similar speed, and does the same damage, they are clearly better for the concept of a "frontline soldier." The assault bonuses are not aimed at all or if they are aimed they are aimed poorly. I cannot look at any Assault suit and say "they are meant to do this." Caldari Assault has less downtime when firing (reload speed bonus), meaning you can keep moving and keep firing more consistently.
Gallente Assault hits harder at short range, meaning you can move in and rip targets apart in close quarters, encouraging mobile combat.
Minmatar and Amarr get bonuses to help with prolonged engagements, which means they can press the advantage when the enemy is falling back, or sustain flanking attacks where other suits would have to back off more.
All the bonuses apply to mobile combat - but not necessarily the sneaky-sneaky or recon-focused approach Scouts are built for. Seems logical enough to me, and sensible enough as well. |
Grimmiers
0uter.Heaven
481
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Posted - 2014.03.27 10:08:00 -
[23] - Quote
Passive ammo resupply.
SoundCloud
Recruiter Link
Pronounced Grim-e-urs
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Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries Dirt Nap Squad.
7785
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Posted - 2014.03.27 10:14:00 -
[24] - Quote
Give me an assault suit and I will build a better scout.
Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
DUST514514
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Summ Dude
Direct Action Resources
333
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Posted - 2014.03.27 10:27:00 -
[25] - Quote
Well, here's my idea.
Not just a laymen, but the laymen.
Winn Summ and lose Summ.
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