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Dexter307 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar 1120	Posted - 2014.03.24 15:11:00 - [1] - Quote Assault SMG Pros: Higher DPS ignoring magsec's charge time Significantly higher DPS including magsec's charge time (especially if they don't shoot their whole clip). Higher ROF makes it easier to hit targets Better shield penalty (only 5% compared to magsec's 10% penalty) Bigger magazine size Faster reload More ammo Magsec's Pros: Longer range Higher damage per individual bullet Slightly more damage per clip (about 50 more damage)
TranquilBiscuit ofVaLoR Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 1845	Posted - 2014.03.24 15:14:00 - [2] - Quote Magsec SMG, damage of pre 1.8 assault rifles, with the same range as them too. oh, and fires faster than an assault rail rifle. Anime > EVERYTHING
Dexter307 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar 1120	Posted - 2014.03.24 15:16:00 - [3] - Quote TranquilBiscuit ofVaLoR wrote: Magsec SMG, damage of pre 1.8 assault rifles, with the same range as them too. oh, and fires faster than an assault rail rifle. So? Ar damage with rail rifle ROF isn't very good Assault SMG has better DPS
Ansiiis The Trustworthy Mocking Bird Inc. 923	Posted - 2014.03.24 15:17:00 - [4] - Quote Range>you. Gunlogi
Master Smurf Nos Nothi 261	Posted - 2014.03.24 15:18:00 - [5] - Quote Everyone please use MagSec so the QQ can begin and they will be nerfed to their rightful place "Shine bright like a diamond"
Master Smurf Nos Nothi 261	Posted - 2014.03.24 15:20:00 - [6] - Quote Ansiiis The Trustworthy wrote: Range>you. Correct - DPS only matters if you are in the range to achieve it. "Shine bright like a diamond"
Dexter307 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar 1120	Posted - 2014.03.24 15:20:00 - [7] - Quote Master Smurf wrote: Everyone please use MagSec so the QQ can begin and they will be nerfed to their rightful place Go ahead. My assault SMG is still better
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. Dirt Nap Squad. 1441	Posted - 2014.03.24 15:23:00 - [8] - Quote Dexter307 wrote: Assault SMG Pros: Higher DPS ignoring magsec's charge time Significantly higher DPS including magsec's charge time (especially if they don't shoot their whole clip). Higher ROF makes it easier to hit targets Better shield penalty (only 5% compared to magsec's 10% penalty) Bigger magazine size Faster reload More ammo Uses 1 less PG Magsec's Pros: Longer range Higher damage per individual bullet Slightly more damage per clip (about 50 more damage) Uses 2 less CPU You understand the DPS potential of an Assault rifle compared to a RR? What happens when you add effective ranges and 4 months of practicality in seeing what Advantage range gives you?
Dexter307 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar 1120	Posted - 2014.03.24 15:26:00 - [9] - Quote Master Smurf wrote: Ansiiis The Trustworthy wrote: Range>you. Correct - DPS only matters if you are in the range to achieve it. I prefer higher DPS to range
Ryme Intrinseca Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 899	Posted - 2014.03.24 15:26:00 - [10] - Quote The little advantages here and there for the ASMG are totally obliterated by the MSMG range advantage. You could have made the same post before 1.7 saying AR>RR. And look how that turned out.
Dexter307 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar 1120	Posted - 2014.03.24 15:26:00 - [11] - Quote Bethhy wrote: Dexter307 wrote: Assault SMG Pros: Higher DPS ignoring magsec's charge time Significantly higher DPS including magsec's charge time (especially if they don't shoot their whole clip). Higher ROF makes it easier to hit targets Better shield penalty (only 5% compared to magsec's 10% penalty) Bigger magazine size Faster reload More ammo Uses 1 less PG Magsec's Pros: Longer range Higher damage per individual bullet Slightly more damage per clip (about 50 more damage) Uses 2 less CPU You understand the DPS potential of an Assault rifle compared to a RR? What happens when you add effective ranges and 4 months of practicality in seeing what Advantage range gives you? Except its DPS is significantly less
Korvin Lomont United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 809	Posted - 2014.03.24 15:27:00 - [12] - Quote Dexter307 wrote: Assault SMG Pros: Higher DPS ignoring magsec's charge time Significantly higher DPS including magsec's charge time (especially if they don't shoot their whole clip). Higher ROF makes it easier to hit targets Better shield penalty (only 5% compared to magsec's 10% penalty) Bigger magazine size Faster reload More ammo Uses 1 less PG Magsec's Pros: Longer range Higher damage per individual bullet Slightly more damage per clip (about 50 more damage) Uses 2 less CPU The comparison is not accurate as we don't know how an assault MagSec will work (if this will ever come). Apart from that the assault smg requires more SP to use. Apart from that you are right the Assault SMG has Higher DPS but i really don't get the point of your statement... as no one ever stated the MagSec will be the best overall weapon. We just stated the MagSec will make the SMG obsolete and this statement is still true and the Magsec will most likely make the AR obsolete and this is also still true.
Dexter307 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar 1120	Posted - 2014.03.24 15:27:00 - [13] - Quote Ryme Intrinseca wrote: The little advantages here and there for the ASMG are totally obliterated by the MSMG range advantage. You could have made the same post before 1.7 saying AR>RR. And look how that turned out. No you couldn't Rail rifle has more dps
Dexter307 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar 1120	Posted - 2014.03.24 15:29:00 - [14] - Quote Korvin Lomont wrote: Dexter307 wrote: Assault SMG Pros: Higher DPS ignoring magsec's charge time Significantly higher DPS including magsec's charge time (especially if they don't shoot their whole clip). Higher ROF makes it easier to hit targets Better shield penalty (only 5% compared to magsec's 10% penalty) Bigger magazine size Faster reload More ammo Uses 1 less PG Magsec's Pros: Longer range Higher damage per individual bullet Slightly more damage per clip (about 50 more damage) Uses 2 less CPU The comparison is not accurate as we don't know how an assault MagSec will work (if this will ever come). Apart from that the assault smg requires more SP to use. Apart from that you are right the Assault SMG has Higher DPS but i really don't get the point of your statement... as no one ever stated the MagSec will be the best overall weapon. We just stated the MagSec will make the SMG obsolete and this statement is still true and the Magsec will most likely make the AR obsolete and this is also still true. SMG has significantly more DPS but less range That's fair IMO and I personally think the Assault SMG is better
Bojo The Mighty L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 3608	Posted - 2014.03.24 15:35:00 - [15] - Quote Dexter307 wrote: Better shield penalty (only 5% compared to magsec's 10% penalty) pretty sure that is incorrect 68 inches above sea level...
Ryme Intrinseca Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 899	Posted - 2014.03.24 15:37:00 - [16] - Quote Dexter307 wrote: Ryme Intrinseca wrote: The little advantages here and there for the ASMG are totally obliterated by the MSMG range advantage. You could have made the same post before 1.7 saying AR>RR. And look how that turned out. No you couldn't Rail rifle has more dps Nope. Without accounting for RR charge it's: 467.5 AR 465.3 RR And of course AR is comfortably ahead in DPS if you take charge time into account. It's a pretty similar situation to SMG versus MSMG. EDIT: values calculated for 1.7 at proto level.
Korvin Lomont United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 809	Posted - 2014.03.24 15:38:00 - [17] - Quote Dexter307 wrote: Korvin Lomont wrote: Dexter307 wrote: Assault SMG Pros: Higher DPS ignoring magsec's charge time Significantly higher DPS including magsec's charge time (especially if they don't shoot their whole clip). Higher ROF makes it easier to hit targets Better shield penalty (only 5% compared to magsec's 10% penalty) Bigger magazine size Faster reload More ammo Uses 1 less PG Magsec's Pros: Longer range Higher damage per individual bullet Slightly more damage per clip (about 50 more damage) Uses 2 less CPU The comparison is not accurate as we don't know how an assault MagSec will work (if this will ever come). Apart from that the assault smg requires more SP to use. Apart from that you are right the Assault SMG has Higher DPS but i really don't get the point of your statement... as no one ever stated the MagSec will be the best overall weapon. We just stated the MagSec will make the SMG obsolete and this statement is still true and the Magsec will most likely make the AR obsolete and this is also still true. SMG has significantly more DPS but less range That's fair IMO and I personally think the Assault SMG is better The SMG has less DPS if you know how to use the MagSec (precharging isn't that hard). And even if you don't precharge the advantage is only true for the very first second of an encounter under ideal circumstances...so the charge is a highly situational drawback. So ignoring the charge (which will be the case in most engagements) MagSec dps 355 on std vs SMG dps 350 on std. Based on my experience with RR the charge has never been a huge disadvantage and was easily compensated by tighter hip fire accuracy but we will see how good the hipfire accuracy will be on the MagSec.
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. Dirt Nap Squad. 1441	Posted - 2014.03.24 15:40:00 - [18] - Quote Dexter307 wrote: Bethhy wrote: Dexter307 wrote: Assault SMG Pros: Higher DPS ignoring magsec's charge time Significantly higher DPS including magsec's charge time (especially if they don't shoot their whole clip). Higher ROF makes it easier to hit targets Better shield penalty (only 5% compared to magsec's 10% penalty) Bigger magazine size Faster reload More ammo Uses 1 less PG Magsec's Pros: Longer range Higher damage per individual bullet Slightly more damage per clip (about 50 more damage) Uses 2 less CPU You understand the DPS potential of an Assault rifle compared to a RR? What happens when you add effective ranges and 4 months of practicality in seeing what Advantage range gives you? Except its DPS is significantly less Comparison] AR Range: 45m optimal, 78m effective DPS: (750 x 37.4 / 60) = 467.5 Damage profile: -10% shields, +10% armor RR Range: 75 optimal, 102 effective DPS: (461.54 x 60.5 / 60) Gëê 465.39 Damage profile: +10% shields, -10% armor They are both around the same... The range makes one gun almost completely obsolete though.
TranquilBiscuit ofVaLoR Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 1845	Posted - 2014.03.24 15:40:00 - [19] - Quote Dexter307 wrote: TranquilBiscuit ofVaLoR wrote: Magsec SMG, damage of pre 1.8 assault rifles, with the same range as them too. oh, and fires faster than an assault rail rifle. So? Ar damage with rail rifle ROF isn't very good Assault SMG has better DPS Also damage is less than the AR if the ASMG has better DPS, then it's only marginal, and for a SIDEARM, having rifle distance is pretty impressive. Anime > EVERYTHING
Dexter307 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar 1120	Posted - 2014.03.24 15:41:00 - [20] - Quote Ryme Intrinseca wrote: Dexter307 wrote: Ryme Intrinseca wrote: The little advantages here and there for the ASMG are totally obliterated by the MSMG range advantage. You could have made the same post before 1.7 saying AR>RR. And look how that turned out. No you couldn't Rail rifle has more dps Nope. Without accounting for RR charge it's: 467.5 AR 465.3 RR And of course AR is comfortably ahead in DPS if you take charge time into account. It's a pretty similar situation to SMG versus MSMG. EDIT: values calculated for 1.7 at proto level. It's a difference of 2 DPS and the assault rail rifle has higher dps
Django Quik Dust2Dust. 2496	Posted - 2014.03.24 15:43:00 - [21] - Quote Are the numbers quoted for the aSMG in this thread taking into consideration the 1.8 nerfed damage? Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot Scout community is the nuts
Korvin Lomont United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 809	Posted - 2014.03.24 15:43:00 - [22] - Quote Ryme Intrinseca wrote: Dexter307 wrote: Ryme Intrinseca wrote: The little advantages here and there for the ASMG are totally obliterated by the MSMG range advantage. You could have made the same post before 1.7 saying AR>RR. And look how that turned out. No you couldn't Rail rifle has more dps Nope. Without accounting for RR charge it's: 467.5 AR 465.3 RR And of course AR is comfortably ahead in DPS if you take charge time into account. It's a pretty similar situation to SMG versus MSMG. EDIT: values calculated for 1.7 at proto level. Yes on paper the RR has slightly less DPS (2 pts) but gets double the range that's the problem. The charge has never be a problem for experienced RR users(as I started to use the RR I didn't even noticed the charge). Thanks to the tighter hip fire you could bring down AR user pretty easily. Also consider that AR users have to spent way more SP to achieve a halfway comparable accuracy...
Korvin Lomont United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 809	Posted - 2014.03.24 15:45:00 - [23] - Quote Bethhy wrote: Dexter307 wrote: Bethhy wrote: Dexter307 wrote: Assault SMG Pros: Higher DPS ignoring magsec's charge time Significantly higher DPS including magsec's charge time (especially if they don't shoot their whole clip). Higher ROF makes it easier to hit targets Better shield penalty (only 5% compared to magsec's 10% penalty) Bigger magazine size Faster reload More ammo Uses 1 less PG Magsec's Pros: Longer range Higher damage per individual bullet Slightly more damage per clip (about 50 more damage) Uses 2 less CPU You understand the DPS potential of an Assault rifle compared to a RR? What happens when you add effective ranges and 4 months of practicality in seeing what Advantage range gives you? Except its DPS is significantly less Comparison] AR Range: 45m optimal, 78m effective DPS: (750 x 37.4 / 60) = 467.5 Damage profile: -10% shields, +10% armor RR Range: 75 optimal, 102 effective DPS: (461.54 x 60.5 / 60) Gëê 465.39 Damage profile: +10% shields, -10% armor They are both around the same... The range makes one gun almost completely obsolete though. You mixxed up the damage profiles I think AR +10% vs shields and -10% vs Armor RR -10% vs shields and +10% vs Armor
Dexter307 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar 1120	Posted - 2014.03.24 15:46:00 - [24] - Quote Django Quik wrote: Are the numbers quoted for the aSMG in this thread taking into consideration the 1.8 nerfed damage? Yes 22.05 for m209 assault smg
Dexter307 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar 1120	Posted - 2014.03.24 15:47:00 - [25] - Quote Bojo The Mighty wrote: Dexter307 wrote: Better shield penalty (only 5% compared to magsec's 10% penalty) pretty sure that is incorrect It correct Projectile weapons are 10% bonus to armor, 5% penalty to shields
Chunky Munkey Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 3670	Posted - 2014.03.24 15:47:00 - [26] - Quote Dexter307 wrote: Assault SMG Pros: Higher DPS ignoring magsec's charge time Significantly higher DPS including magsec's charge time (especially if they don't shoot their whole clip). Higher ROF makes it easier to hit targets Better shield penalty (only 5% compared to magsec's 10% penalty) Bigger magazine size Faster reload More ammo Uses 1 less PG Magsec's Pros: Longer range Higher damage per individual bullet Slightly more damage per clip (about 50 more damage) Uses 2 less CPU If 1.8 has taught us anything, it's that effective range > damage. The Magsec will be OP because CCP wants it to be. It is to sidearms what the RR is to rifles. No.
Ryme Intrinseca Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 900	Posted - 2014.03.24 15:48:00 - [27] - Quote Dexter307 wrote: Ryme Intrinseca wrote: Dexter307 wrote: Ryme Intrinseca wrote: The little advantages here and there for the ASMG are totally obliterated by the MSMG range advantage. You could have made the same post before 1.7 saying AR>RR. And look how that turned out. No you couldn't Rail rifle has more dps Nope. Without accounting for RR charge it's: 467.5 AR 465.3 RR And of course AR is comfortably ahead in DPS if you take charge time into account. It's a pretty similar situation to SMG versus MSMG. EDIT: values calculated for 1.7 at proto level. It's a difference of 2 DPS and the assault rail rifle has higher dps 'I was wrong about AR versus RR DPS so I'm going to change the subject and hope no one notices'.
Reav Hannari Red Rock Outriders 3435	Posted - 2014.03.24 15:49:00 - [28] - Quote Comparing advanced Magsec to advanced ASMG the range difference is 11 meters. This will only matter if you are trying to fight at range which is not the point of either SMG. The SMG has about a 13 DPS advantaged when fighting below 50 meters which is a likely scenario. I'm not going to bother cross training but if you haven't trained an SMG class weapon its better to go into the Magsec. About the same thing happens with AR versus RR except range is a lot more critical with your light weapon so the RR decimates the superior DPS of the AR. Doesn't matter because the Scrambler just fries everything. The AR and SMG should have significantly higher DPS due to their range but they don't. Stupid, really. Adapt or Die // Republic Lance Commander // @ReesNoturana
Dexter307 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar 1120	Posted - 2014.03.24 15:50:00 - [29] - Quote Ryme Intrinseca wrote: Dexter307 wrote: Ryme Intrinseca wrote: Dexter307 wrote: Ryme Intrinseca wrote: The little advantages here and there for the ASMG are totally obliterated by the MSMG range advantage. You could have made the same post before 1.7 saying AR>RR. And look how that turned out. No you couldn't Rail rifle has more dps Nope. Without accounting for RR charge it's: 467.5 AR 465.3 RR And of course AR is comfortably ahead in DPS if you take charge time into account. It's a pretty similar situation to SMG versus MSMG. EDIT: values calculated for 1.7 at proto level. It's a difference of 2 DPS and the assault rail rifle has higher dps 'I was wrong about AR versus RR DPS so I'm going to change the subject and hope no one notices'. That's a strange definition of changing the subject
Ryme Intrinseca Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 900	Posted - 2014.03.24 15:51:00 - [30] - Quote Korvin Lomont wrote: Ryme Intrinseca wrote: Dexter307 wrote: Ryme Intrinseca wrote: The little advantages here and there for the ASMG are totally obliterated by the MSMG range advantage. You could have made the same post before 1.7 saying AR>RR. And look how that turned out. No you couldn't Rail rifle has more dps Nope. Without accounting for RR charge it's: 467.5 AR 465.3 RR And of course AR is comfortably ahead in DPS if you take charge time into account. It's a pretty similar situation to SMG versus MSMG. EDIT: values calculated for 1.7 at proto level. Yes on paper the RR has slightly less DPS (2 pts) but gets double the range that's the problem. The charge has never be a problem for experienced RR users(as I started to use the RR I didn't even noticed the charge). Thanks to the tighter hip fire you could bring down AR user pretty easily. Also consider that AR users have to spent way more SP to achieve a halfway comparable accuracy... I agree RR is better than AR. You even quoted me saying so!
Ryme Intrinseca Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 900	Posted - 2014.03.24 15:52:00 - [31] - Quote Dexter307 wrote: Ryme Intrinseca wrote: Dexter307 wrote: Ryme Intrinseca wrote: Dexter307 wrote: No you couldn't Rail rifle has more dps Nope. Without accounting for RR charge it's: 467.5 AR 465.3 RR And of course AR is comfortably ahead in DPS if you take charge time into account. It's a pretty similar situation to SMG versus MSMG. EDIT: values calculated for 1.7 at proto level. It's a difference of 2 DPS and the assault rail rifle has higher dps 'I was wrong about AR versus RR DPS so I'm going to change the subject and hope no one notices'. That's a strange definition of changing the subject RRGëáARR
Django Quik Dust2Dust. 2496	Posted - 2014.03.24 16:01:00 - [32] - Quote Have just done the maths myself: Level 4 Assault SMG : 386.8 dps Level 3 regular MagSec : 373.3 dps Level 3 regular SMG : 367.5 dps Please, let's compare more apples to oranges. Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot Scout community is the nuts
CommanderBolt ACME SPECIAL FORCES RISE of LEGION 1124	Posted - 2014.03.24 16:07:00 - [33] - Quote In any FPS game I have ever played that tries to be reasonably balanced, they will always have the 'long range high damage per bullet' rifles have some sort of weakness. Usually in the form of reduced rate of fire and clip size. However in DUST they dont seem to give the longest range rifles any sort of substantial penalty. I don't like to keep harking on about Battlefield 4 and I know people will be like "Go play BF then" but there is no shame at all in looking to other games to see how they handle balance / good gameplay. Investigate 9/11
Reav Hannari Red Rock Outriders 3437	Posted - 2014.03.24 16:15:00 - [34] - Quote Django Quik wrote: Have just done the maths myself: Level 4 Assault SMG : 386.8 dps Level 3 regular MagSec : 373.3 dps Level 3 regular SMG : 367.5 dps Please, let's compare more apples to oranges. I'm have the following base DPS without proficiency skill adjustments: PRO ASMG: 1052.63 RPM = 17.54 RPS @ 23.1 damage per round = 405.3 DPS Looks like one of us is off for the Ishukone. Did you figure for the Six Kin SMG? My numbers match the other two. Adapt or Die // Republic Lance Commander // @ReesNoturana
Kairos Nitak Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 21	Posted - 2014.03.24 16:15:00 - [35] - Quote I think the strength of the SMG and MSMG will depend on the intended use. If you're an assault player who already has a mid to long range weapon, the SMG will be the obvious choice. The SMG's ability to spray a concentrated stream of high dps in CQC won't be matched by the MSMG. However, if you are a Heavy with a FG, or an assault with swarms, having a MSMG as a mid-range sidearm will be very ideal as in both situations you are likely not in a CQC situation. I don't think (at least I sure hope) either of them will be replacing any of the rifles. But we will find out very SOOOON!
Django Quik Dust2Dust. 2497	Posted - 2014.03.24 16:18:00 - [36] - Quote Reav Hannari wrote: Django Quik wrote: Have just done the maths myself: Level 4 Assault SMG : 386.8 dps Level 3 regular MagSec : 373.3 dps Level 3 regular SMG : 367.5 dps Please, let's compare more apples to oranges. I'm have the following base DPS without proficiency skill adjustments: PRO ASMG: 1052.63 RPM = 17.54 RPS @ 23.1 damage per round = 405.3 DPS Looks like one of us is off for the Ishukone. Did you figure for the Six Kin SMG? My numbers match the other two. I'm using the m209 for my level 4 assault SMG. The Ishukone is proto. Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot Scout community is the nuts
Dexter307 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar 1121	Posted - 2014.03.24 16:18:00 - [37] - Quote Ryme Intrinseca wrote: RRGëáARR Not true their both extremely similar except the ARR is a bit better
Dexter307 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar 1121	Posted - 2014.03.24 16:19:00 - [38] - Quote Reav Hannari wrote: Django Quik wrote: Have just done the maths myself: Level 4 Assault SMG : 386.8 dps Level 3 regular MagSec : 373.3 dps Level 3 regular SMG : 367.5 dps Please, let's compare more apples to oranges. I'm have the following base DPS without proficiency skill adjustments: PRO ASMG: 1052.63 RPM = 17.54 RPS @ 23.1 damage per round = 405.3 DPS Looks like one of us is off for the Ishukone. Did you figure for the Six Kin SMG? My numbers match the other two. He's not looking at proto
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. Dirt Nap Squad. 1443	Posted - 2014.03.24 16:28:00 - [39] - Quote Why is the Caldari making Minmatar weapons anyways? "Favouring function over form, the SMG is a lightweight, semi-automatic weapon designed for close-quarters combat. What it lacks in stopping power and accuracy it grossly overcompensates for with quantity. Designed to injure and impede, the hailstorm of bullets the SMG produces is most effective in tight spaces against multiple targets. This original design is a paradigm of Minmatar construction. An inelegant but reliable weapon solution that is simple to produce, easily repaired using almost any available materials, and provides comparable pound-for-pound performance with similar sub-automatic weapons was a result of this design. Although an unabashedly low-tech weapon, it excels at what it was designed for: killing anything right in front of you." Should be the Boundless Assault Submachine gun... Boundless Creations the Minmatar weapon Tech corporation should have name over it.
Dexter307 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar 1123	Posted - 2014.03.24 16:29:00 - [40] - Quote Adv magsec's DPS counting charge time: 351.6 Assault SMG DPS: 386.8 That's a 9.1% difference This is assuming you shoot your whole clip. If you don't shoot your whole clip the difference widens even further
da GAND L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 561	Posted - 2014.03.24 16:29:00 - [41] - Quote Still seems like it's going to replace the Minmatar smg After Uprisings release the forums were a bad place, I'll never forget how CCP screwed up so badly.
Dexter307 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar 1123	Posted - 2014.03.24 16:36:00 - [42] - Quote da GAND wrote: Still seems like it's going to replace the Minmatar smg Only if you want more range Assault SMG will still be better at close range
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. Dirt Nap Squad. 1443	Posted - 2014.03.24 16:39:00 - [43] - Quote da GAND wrote: Still seems like it's going to replace the Minmatar smg We all know it.... If two weapons have similar DPS... and one has more range.. Well... what would make more sense to you with no emotional ties to dust? Anyone that knows about DUST is waiting to see how the bullet spread works.. If it's manageable.. then it's gonna be better then most Rifle variants even in a lot of cases. weapons in DUST as in anything is a wait and see... Except the flaylock which people actually got to try in game conventions and see working in actual ingame footage kinda knew what to expect.
Dexter307 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar 1123	Posted - 2014.03.24 16:43:00 - [44] - Quote Bethhy wrote: da GAND wrote: Still seems like it's going to replace the Minmatar smg We all know it.... If two weapons have similar DPS... and one has more range.. Well... what would make more sense to you with no emotional ties to dust? Anyone that knows about DUST is waiting to see how the bullet spread works.. If it's manageable.. then it's gonna be better then most Rifle variants even in a lot of cases. weapons in DUST as in anything is a wait and see... Except the flaylock which people actually got to try in game conventions and see working in actual ingame footage kinda knew what to expect. Except they don't have similar DPS Dexter307 wrote: Adv magsec's DPS counting charge time: 351.6 Assault SMG DPS: 386.8 That's a 9.1% difference This is assuming you shoot your whole clip. If you don't shoot your whole clip the difference widens even further
Ryme Intrinseca Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 901	Posted - 2014.03.24 16:55:00 - [45] - Quote Dexter307 wrote: Ryme Intrinseca wrote: RRGëáARR Not true their both extremely similar except the ARR is a bit better Well I guess it's a matter of opinion but personally I wouldn't touch the ARR with a barge pole. Much smaller damage per clip and than RR and no scope, which is silly for a long range weapon. I use the RR for range and CR for everything else - it dominates the ARR in CQC.
Django Quik Dust2Dust. 2497	Posted - 2014.03.24 17:12:00 - [46] - Quote Dexter307 wrote: Bethhy wrote: da GAND wrote: Still seems like it's going to replace the Minmatar smg We all know it.... If two weapons have similar DPS... and one has more range.. Well... what would make more sense to you with no emotional ties to dust? Anyone that knows about DUST is waiting to see how the bullet spread works.. If it's manageable.. then it's gonna be better then most Rifle variants even in a lot of cases. weapons in DUST as in anything is a wait and see... Except the flaylock which people actually got to try in game conventions and see working in actual ingame footage kinda knew what to expect. Except they don't have similar DPS Adv magsec's DPS counting charge time: 351.6 Assault SMG DPS: 386.8 That's a 9.1% difference This is assuming you shoot your whole clip. If you don't shoot your whole clip the difference widens even further If you only shoot 20 bullets it's DPS is 320 for example That's a 20.9% DPS difference Generally assault variants of everything are better than other similar level weapons. If there was an assault magsec, it would outclass the assault SMG, just like the regular magsec outclasses the regular SMG. I'm just glad there isn't an assault magsec (yet) because it would be the best weapon in the game. Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot Scout community is the nuts
Reav Hannari Red Rock Outriders 3438	Posted - 2014.03.24 17:43:00 - [47] - Quote Django Quik wrote: Level 4 Assault SMG : 386.8 dps Level 3 regular MagSec : 373.3 dps Level 3 regular SMG : 367.5 dps I'm using the m209 for my level 4 assault SMG. The Ishukone is proto. Ah, you meant the advanced Assault SMG. Adapt or Die // Republic Lance Commander // @ReesNoturana
Skihids Bullet Cluster 3110	Posted - 2014.03.24 17:51:00 - [48] - Quote Korvin Lomont wrote: Dexter307 wrote: Assault SMG Pros: Higher DPS ignoring magsec's charge time Significantly higher DPS including magsec's charge time (especially if they don't shoot their whole clip). Higher ROF makes it easier to hit targets Better shield penalty (only 5% compared to magsec's 10% penalty) Bigger magazine size Faster reload More ammo Uses 1 less PG Magsec's Pros: Longer range Higher damage per individual bullet Slightly more damage per clip (about 50 more damage) Uses 2 less CPU The comparison is not accurate as we don't know how an assault MagSec will work (if this will ever come). Apart from that the assault smg requires more SP to use. Apart from that you are right the Assault SMG has Higher DPS but i really don't get the point of your statement... as no one ever stated the MagSec will be the best overall weapon. We just stated the MagSec will make the SMG obsolete and this statement is still true and the Magsec will most likely make the AR obsolete and this is also still true. Those are two of the four weapons I'm skilled into. It burns me that CCP is making them obsolete after I dumped a large amount of SP into them to get competitive. I was running the MD for the longest time and getting decimated by the GEK and Duvole so regularly that I was forced to spend the SP to keep from dying so much. I do that and CCP turns around and does it to me again. I can abandon all the SP and chase the next FoTM or say the hell with it and get off the Merry Go Round and spend all my time in the air. I'm doing the latter.
Dexter307 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar 1126	Posted - 2014.03.24 18:05:00 - [49] - Quote Ryme Intrinseca wrote: Dexter307 wrote: Ryme Intrinseca wrote: RRGëáARR Not true their both extremely similar except the ARR is a bit better Well I guess it's a matter of opinion but personally I wouldn't touch the ARR with a barge pole. Much smaller damage per clip and than RR and no scope, which is silly for a long range weapon. I use the RR for range and CR for everything else - it dominates the ARR in CQC. Not having a scope is good since it has the same zoom. I also think it has less recoil.

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