I really hope that if anything comes from this patch, it will be actual teamwork.

The main problem I see right now are players (even me) being able to mow down 4-5 other guys in a few seconds if they're close together. Just today I was able to take on 3-4 guys who kept spawning in the same objective because I could kill them without even trying. In 1.8 facing those same players I would probably be overpowered because I won't be able to kill them faster than they can spawn in.

While I am worried that the increase in ttk will cause unexpected problems, I'm thinking it will solve more than it brings.

I will still use dmg mods on my Amarr sentinel, dual tanking is a sin and should not be tolerated.

The actual TTK with the rifles is not too different from their current TTK. It's about 75-100 points more with the new stat, about 10 bullets essentially, with an automatic, if you're a decent aim. You'll still be able to kill people with single magazines, assuming you can land 65-80% of your shots.

Dual tanking breaks everything enough said.

The damage mod nerf, like any other nerf, has made them useless to all but maybe snipers. Even before 1.8 damage mods had to be carefully balanced with HP so you get the maximum ratio between the two, usually just Armor and damage. But with the nerf it makes them so that shields give a bigger benefit no matter the situation. One thing this causes is an extreme extention of the TTK; post 1.8 people were dying fast yes but most were using 1 type of tank, now most will be dual tanking. This combined with all the damage nerf will massively extend the TTK.

For example a Gallente Assault with 3x CSE and 4xEAP has a 2.3 second TTK, against a Duvolle this is 28 shots to kill. This leads to another problem strafing fights, even though you want to make this a slow tactical shooter, strafing and bunny hopping is way to fast. With the slow time to kill anybody in a scout suit and a keyboard will be able to matrix across the field this was a problem in beta.

This is also going to have a huge shift in weapon preference, anything with a slow rof and high alpha damage will be the only useful weapon in 1.8. High rof weapons have low damage therefore the amount of shots to kill will be way higher and with more room to dance around these will probably need an entire clip to kill. Therefore being able to count your shots and regulate your damage quickly means weapons like the bolt pistol, scrambler rifle, Rail rifle and Burst Combat rifle will be the most useful.

Some solutions if these problems do happen:

(I am very positive they will since during beta TTK was much longer and many of the things above held true.)

*Reverse one of the damage nerfs, each of the nerfs increases TTK by around 15%, damage mod nerf forces dual tanking and weapon damage nerfs add to it.

*Reduce the rof of weapons and increase damage, this doesn't increase TTK but some weapons won't work with slow TTK; weapons like the SMG. In slow TTK games damage > dps, fast TTK dps > damage.

*Reduce strafing speeds, and ads speeds, in slow shooters strafing fights just can't work the game becomes about who can move faster not who can aim/react better. It's not a shooter it's a dancing game. Left, right,up, left, left, right, left, right.

*Change the armor and shield penalties accordingly so using both increases the damage you take.
> Shields increase your hit box 2/3/5
> Armor slows you down 2/3/5
no more dual tanking.

*increase base suit HP and scale modules like in EVE were the difference between meta 1-4 is around 5%. This makes it so what makes or breaks your suit is how you build around its purpose not piling a truckload of HP. This reduces TTK slightly but increase game play flavors tremendously.

I will still use dmg mods on my Amarr sentinel, dual tanking is a sin and should not be tolerated.

lol another clueless post dragging up KB/M. Go and use KB/M (Without any extra macros or other things) then come back and tell us how its ohh so powerful.

I wanna see what happens.

Though I agree with you on most points, but disagree on others(like lowering RoF)

The ScR needed a balance, and this is how they chose to do it...we will see how it plays out(I think a hipfire and and heat build up nerf would have been fine, also maybe dropping the RoF for that weapon would have been good)

The ScR is quite balanced, due to the fact that it's semi-automatic. Also, when so few people use it, why is this even an issue? I see one ScR in every 40 games or so. I know I'm not the only one using it, but is sure seems like it. The weapon is highly skilled, high risk, high reward. Automatic weapons tend to assist the players aim, as they are not dependent upon each individual shot. It may be powerful, but everything kills in the same amount of the time with infinite ammunition anyway. That's one of the perks of the ScR thought, if you're a decent shot, you won't have to worry about your reserves.

One thing I'm interested in seeing is how the scrambler will fare. With it having a -20% reduction to armor, and the proficiency change, it will definitely be interesting. With short ttk it actually works quite well because you don't overheat as much, whereas long ttks mean having to fire the weapon slower in order to prevent overheating.

Or you deal with the overheat as treat it like a reload.

Speaking of which, with more rounds required to kill... reloading, nanohives, and ammo supplys will definitely be something to look at with 1.8

The actual TTK with the rifles is not too different from their current TTK. It's about 75-100 points more with the new stat, about 10 bullets essentially, with an automatic, if you're a decent aim. You'll still be able to kill people with single magazines, assuming you can land 65-80% of your shots.

I normally don't agree with Amarrians, but we do share some very similar views at times.

The headshot bonus makes up for the -20 armour, so it works well.

Who the hell could land 65-80% of their shots on moving targets accurately without Aim assist....


This statement made me puke in my mouth a little.


Oh CCP what have you done.

Aim down sights instead of depending on hipfire

Until CCP and people make that distinction this game will always be considered laughable on the world gaming stage when it comes to legitimate competition.

Thats correct.

Choice only matters until CCP pulls the rug and then tells you HTFU and this is New Eden yada yada

#ChoiceIsAnIllusion #KeepGrinding #BuyAurum

This game will ALWAYS be laughable on the professional level until they add in a mode that gives all players equal amounts of SP and ISK to pull from.

Otherwise, it will always be a niche game that never receives any meaningful recognition from the pro circuit.

Oh the SCR does the same as well - aim slightly left or right of your target and charge a shot and fire.

The main reason you see less Scramblers are due to the rise of the Rail and Combat but that doesnt mean that the spamming of 70-80 dmg shots was balanced.

All of the rifles needed balancing in different ways but CCP hasnt figured out how to find the nuggets on their forum or cant program those nuggets.

ON TTK - Once again they attacked it on many fronts while making some weird sidesteps - no HMG, No Vehicle, no armor speed penalty change.

I guess its round 1.

*Snip*

With the slow time to kill anybody in a scout suit and a keyboard will be able to matrix across the field this was a problem in beta.

*Snip*

The damage mod nerf, like any other nerf, has made them useless to all but maybe snipers.

The damage mod Nerf was absolutely necessary as the mod itself was entirely too powerful, more powerful than the proficiency skill which is just silly. The current numbers means that if you want the extra damage then you will lose tank making it viable to have two roles, taking for survivability and damage for alpha strikes and maneuverability/flanking. It will also mean you can't just run in and kill 5 people on your own like it is now. That's just absurd.

Yes you won't be able to take multiple guys anymore (good thing) but in order to take you down quickly would require two guys, sort of speak. The TTK is fine but certain factors within the game that were not looked at, these over extend the TTK past what CCP might have intended. This being HP modules, dual tanking, clip size damage etc.

I will still use dmg mods on my Amarr sentinel, dual tanking is a sin and should not be tolerated.

I think your point about 5-to-1 craziness is well taken, but I think the damage mod bonus/proficiency issue it more complicated. I am happy to get into to detail here if anyone is interested, but my point boils down to: In EVE, Tech II weapon upgrades (eg, gyrostabilizers, ballistic control systems, etc.) not only grant a very large bonus to damage and ROF or tracking speed, or etc., depending on the specific module, there are also basic- and advanced-level skills that grant HUGE bonuses (basic-leve skills generally granting 5%/level, advanced usually granting 2%-3%/level), and each only applies to a specific type of weapon. This leads me to believe that the best solution would be weapon upgrades for specific weapons, that grant weapon-relevant bonuses and not necessary increases to raw damage output. For example, plasma-based weapons (SG, AR) might get bonuses to ROF and spread (maybe the weapon upgrade is an improved cyclotron, allowing for faster output in a more focused area) or scrambler weapons would get bonuses to cooldown and ROF (ROF = less heat buildup per shot), rails could get ROF and damage bonuses (eg, improved capacitor holds more charge and charges faster), or projectiles could get damage and spread bonuses (improved ammo and better barrel rifling).

Anyway, just my two cents.