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DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
12445
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Posted - 2014.03.24 16:29:00 -
[31] - Quote
Bethhy wrote:Until CCP and people make that distinction this game will always be considered laughable on the world gaming stage when it comes to legitimate competition. This game will ALWAYS be laughable on the professional level until they add in a mode that gives all players equal amounts of SP and ISK to pull from.
Otherwise, it will always be a niche game that never receives any meaningful recognition from the pro circuit.
Videos / Fiction
Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
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Jack McReady
DUST University Ivy League
1180
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Posted - 2014.03.24 16:36:00 -
[32] - Quote
Master Smurf wrote:Thats correct.
Choice only matters until CCP pulls the rug and then tells you HTFU and this is New Eden yada yada
#ChoiceIsAnIllusion #KeepGrinding #BuyAurum it is all fine as long as people buy more boosters |
Cenex Langly
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
685
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Posted - 2014.03.24 16:58:00 -
[33] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:Bethhy wrote:Until CCP and people make that distinction this game will always be considered laughable on the world gaming stage when it comes to legitimate competition. This game will ALWAYS be laughable on the professional level until they add in a mode that gives all players equal amounts of SP and ISK to pull from. Otherwise, it will always be a niche game that never receives any meaningful recognition from the pro circuit.
I should remind you that this game is not trying to reach the pro circuit. It's an addendum to the bigger game of Eve. It's trying to do something that is completely different from the general shooter. If you want to play a competitive shooter than play cod
Newb
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Temias Mercurial
ANGEL FLEET
29
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Posted - 2014.03.24 17:22:00 -
[34] - Quote
Master Smurf wrote:Temias Mercurial wrote:Cody Sietz wrote:I wanna see what happens.
Though I agree with you on most points, but disagree on others(like lowering RoF)
The ScR needed a balance, and this is how they chose to do it...we will see how it plays out(I think a hipfire and and heat build up nerf would have been fine, also maybe dropping the RoF for that weapon would have been good) The ScR is quite balanced, due to the fact that it's semi-automatic. Also, when so few people use it, why is this even an issue? I see one ScR in every 40 games or so. I know I'm not the only one using it, but is sure seems like it. The weapon is highly skilled, high risk, high reward. Automatic weapons tend to assist the players aim, as they are not dependent upon each individual shot. It may be powerful, but everything kills in the same amount of the time with infinite ammunition anyway. That's one of the perks of the ScR thought, if you're a decent shot, you won't have to worry about your reserves. Oh the SCR does the same as well - aim slightly left or right of your target and charge a shot and fire. The main reason you see less Scramblers are due to the rise of the Rail and Combat but that doesnt mean that the spamming of 70-80 dmg shots was balanced. All of the rifles needed balancing in different ways but CCP hasnt figured out how to find the nuggets on their forum or cant program those nuggets. ON TTK - Once again they attacked it on many fronts while making some weird sidesteps - no HMG, No Vehicle, no armor speed penalty change. I guess its round 1.
Actually, even before 1.7, ScR were somewhat of a rarity, in my experience. The fact that the ScR can deal 70-80 damage shots is insignificant when only 1-2 shots from a RR or CR deal greater to or equal damage. The charge shot is what people regard as "OP", but you only have about 5 more shots left before overheating. It's the greatest 1v1 weapon, but it's unlikely that the average user will be able to take on multiple enemies without overheating, and then dying, due to the fact that RR and CR can easily kill 2-3 people per magazine. The ScR is efficient, but with great cost. The ScR does not assist the user with automatic fire like the other three rifles.
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Roy Ventus
Axis of Chaos
1497
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Posted - 2014.03.24 17:24:00 -
[35] - Quote
I'm positive that if we do have issues, we can just buff the damage mods back to what they were and it'll fix itself.
"There once was a time when there wasn't a Roy Ventus and it wasn't much of a time at all."
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Rei Shepard
The Rainbow Effect Negative-Feedback
1634
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Posted - 2014.03.24 17:26:00 -
[36] - Quote
BL4CKST4R wrote:
*Snip*
With the slow time to kill anybody in a scout suit and a keyboard will be able to matrix across the field this was a problem in beta.
*Snip*
Call me Neo :)
Winner of the EU Squad Cup
"Go Go Power Rangers!"
"Accuracy"
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CRNWLLC
Screwy Rabbit ULC
147
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Posted - 2014.03.24 17:31:00 -
[37] - Quote
BL4CKST4R wrote:The damage mod nerf, like any other nerf, has made them useless to all but maybe snipers.
They're not useless to [us] snipers--just 48.1% less useful (in my specific case).
Here are before/after stacking penalty numbers (I'm using 5 mods for illustrative purposes, since that's max possible before and after 1.8):
Pre-1.8: Individual bonuses: 10.00%, 8.69%, 5.71%, 2.83%, 1.06%, Total bonus: 31.34%
Post-1.8 Individual bonuses: 5.00%, 4.35%, 2.85%, 1.41%, 0.53%, Total bonus: 14.89%
Basically, there is no point in stacking more than 3 complex damage modifiers in 1.8 (as the <2% bonus granted by stacking two more does not in any way justify fitting them--that's less of a bonus than 1 level of proficiency or a basic damage mod!). I was actually considering whether I wanted to switch from my Amarr logi to a different medium frame with more highs, to squeeze every last drop of alpha out of my fit, but the nerf + Amarr logi sidearm + hella equipment + tanks anything except max skills charge/Thales headshots = still my favorite sniping dropsuit.
Cenex Langly wrote:The damage mod Nerf was absolutely necessary as the mod itself was entirely too powerful, more powerful than the proficiency skill which is just silly. The current numbers means that if you want the extra damage then you will lose tank making it viable to have two roles, taking for survivability and damage for alpha strikes and maneuverability/flanking. It will also mean you can't just run in and kill 5 people on your own like it is now. That's just absurd.
I think your point about 5-to-1 craziness is well taken, but I think the damage mod bonus/proficiency issue it more complicated. I am happy to get into to detail here if anyone is interested, but my point boils down to: In EVE, Tech II weapon upgrades (eg, gyrostabilizers, ballistic control systems, etc.) not only grant a very large bonus to damage and ROF or tracking speed, or etc., depending on the specific module, there are also basic- and advanced-level skills that grant HUGE bonuses (basic-leve skills generally granting 5%/level, advanced usually granting 2%-3%/level), and each only applies to a specific type of weapon. This leads me to believe that the best solution would be weapon upgrades for specific weapons, that grant weapon-relevant bonuses and not necessary increases to raw damage output. For example, plasma-based weapons (SG, AR) might get bonuses to ROF and spread (maybe the weapon upgrade is an improved cyclotron, allowing for faster output in a more focused area) or scrambler weapons would get bonuses to cooldown and ROF (ROF = less heat buildup per shot), rails could get ROF and damage bonuses (eg, improved capacitor holds more charge and charges faster), or projectiles could get damage and spread bonuses (improved ammo and better barrel rifling).
Anyway, just my two cents.
My other dropsuit is a Python.
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Rei Shepard
The Rainbow Effect Negative-Feedback
1634
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Posted - 2014.03.24 17:38:00 -
[38] - Quote
BL4CKST4R wrote:I-Shayz-I wrote:I really hope that if anything comes from this patch, it will be actual teamwork.
The main problem I see right now are players (even me) being able to mow down 4-5 other guys in a few seconds if they're close together. Just today I was able to take on 3-4 guys who kept spawning in the same objective because I could kill them without even trying. In 1.8 facing those same players I would probably be overpowered because I won't be able to kill them faster than they can spawn in.
While I am worried that the increase in ttk will cause unexpected problems, I'm thinking it will solve more than it brings. Yes you won't be able to take multiple guys anymore (good thing) but in order to take you down quickly would require two guys, sort of speak. The TTK is fine but certain factors within the game that were not looked at, these over extend the TTK past what CCP might have intended. This being HP modules, dual tanking, clip size damage etc.
On a serious note, we wont be seeing scores like 78/2 anymore because more targets will escape with their lives intact where in 1.7 i could insta gib 4-5 people in a row, or 7 people before my Scrambler Overheated.
But it also works 2-fold, i will also be killed allot less then i do now, but dedicated teams will have more time to trap or lure me out before springing it and i dont think just pure reaction speed & aim is gonna get me through an entire team as i will need to reload more frequently.
Although, halfway through 1.7, i stopped using damage mods, so for me i dont really need to get used much to a longer TTK and without damage mods, ive still dropped entire teams before my shields went down on my amarr assault.
Its allot of speculation, but hopefully its not going to be Uprising 1.0 where i on patchday couldnt kill anything further out then 5 feet.
Winner of the EU Squad Cup
"Go Go Power Rangers!"
"Accuracy"
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Reav Hannari
Red Rock Outriders
3438
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Posted - 2014.03.24 17:47:00 -
[39] - Quote
Hecarim Van Hohen wrote:I will still use dmg mods on my Amarr sentinel, dual tanking is a sin and should not be tolerated.
Just call me Sinnerman. My Minmatar suits are designed to hybrid tank and that's how I'll be running them.
Adapt or Die // Republic Lance Commander // @ReesNoturana
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Cenex Langly
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
689
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Posted - 2014.03.24 21:55:00 -
[40] - Quote
CRNWLLC wrote:Cenex Langly wrote:The damage mod Nerf was absolutely necessary as the mod itself was entirely too powerful, more powerful than the proficiency skill which is just silly. The current numbers means that if you want the extra damage then you will lose tank making it viable to have two roles, taking for survivability and damage for alpha strikes and maneuverability/flanking. It will also mean you can't just run in and kill 5 people on your own like it is now. That's just absurd. I think your point about 5-to-1 craziness is well taken, but I think the damage mod bonus/proficiency issue it more complicated. I am happy to get into to detail here if anyone is interested, but my point boils down to: In EVE, Tech II weapon upgrades (eg, gyrostabilizers, ballistic control systems, etc.) not only grant a very large bonus to damage and ROF or tracking speed, or etc., depending on the specific module, there are also basic- and advanced-level skills that grant HUGE bonuses (basic-leve skills generally granting 5%/level, advanced usually granting 2%-3%/level), and each only applies to a specific type of weapon. This leads me to believe that the best solution would be weapon upgrades for specific weapons, that grant weapon-relevant bonuses and not necessary increases to raw damage output. For example, plasma-based weapons (SG, AR) might get bonuses to ROF and spread (maybe the weapon upgrade is an improved cyclotron, allowing for faster output in a more focused area) or scrambler weapons would get bonuses to cooldown and ROF (ROF = less heat buildup per shot), rails could get ROF and damage bonuses (eg, improved capacitor holds more charge and charges faster), or projectiles could get damage and spread bonuses (improved ammo and better barrel rifling). Anyway, just my two cents.
You hit the nail on the head when you spoke about different damage mods applying to a "specific weapon type". This is exactly why EVE can have bigger bonuses to damage mods and DUST cannot. Having an overall base damage increase completely takes away from having different weapon types. In EVE, we use Rail Guns for really long range sniping, but no one in their right mind would use rail guns to go against a Blaster Ship. The blaster would shred the Rail ship so quickly. This is the difference between combat rifle and rail rifle. So we get tracking bonus modules and heat syncs and gyro stabs etc. But, to top this off, with every mod that BUFFS a particular attribute we have EWAR that debuffs the attribute. So in EVE it's a viable option to have much larger increases in bonus (5% etc) where as in DUST we have 2% and 3% because there is NO COUNTER to a HUGE damage increase right now. Sure, we could give MORE HP, but that isn't a "good" fix. A good fix is keeping the numbers lower and balancing out the counter for every module.
But you basically described all this with your statement (quoted). We just need a few more items in game, and we need our damage mods to be specific to the weapon type. Give me some ways to counter these particular things and you can take those bonuses back to 10% for all I care. Shield rechargers on my low slots and my power diagnostics to increase shield recharge and PG. Give me a damage control as well and increase the damage all you want. =]
Newb
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