Is it me or is this fundamentally an additional AV nerf in only allowing 2 AV grenades to include the Hive ressuply nerf as well?

I don't get it. I just don'. I've finally have a semi consistent strategy against tanks and Drop Ships to include my need for all three AV grenades but that offers no value all of the sudden b/c I'm losing a grenade. In addition, does anyone else think that CPU/PG requirements should be reduced if grenade counts are being reduced?

I haven't been on the forums at all and only got back in recently after a bout a month and half off do to being sick. I'm sorta excited to try 1.8 although I'm enjoying Ground Zeros and trying to plat (super easy) FFXIII: LR.

Can someone shed some light? Am I going crazy or is this an issue?

CCP has a plan. even though they are nefing the nades im sure that they will buff av. I hope.

Doesn't matter. It's only a theoretical nerf ;).

"Grenade count reduced by 1"

What's so theoretical about it? It's a capacity/clip size nerf. Only if CCP, reduces cpu/pg accordingly (by 1/3rd), it's technically not a nerf.

I meant that infantry is unable to kill vehicles as is, this change is nerfing an ability that doesn't exist in the first place.

I meant that infantry is unable to kill vehicles as is, this change is nerfing an ability that doesn't exist in the first place.

Nade nerf is more so meant to deal with pussies that hide up high or on another side of a wall spamming core locus nades or nades in general. It's highly unlikely to be meant as an AV nerf, though it will screw over some corps in PC that focus fighting with nade spam.

...and increase SL range...

Sorry, but the swarm launcher range is perfect as it is. I would know as I am an AV swarm user myself skilled into advanced tier. The locking range is no problem as you only need to be smart about how you approach the situation. Their damage is also alright for their tier.

The principle issue with the swarm launchers is their application of the damage they have. Here is a video posted on YouTube by the famous Judge Rhadamanthus himself.

http://youtu.be/ls7hOEdNgXE

As you can see, swarms have no problem locking onto him at the current range. Again, it's the application of said damage that is flawed. Something is wrong with the math that needs to be changed.

Anyways, when it comes to AV weaponry in general, I'm guessing it should be ok to exempt the AV grenades since it take a lot of effort to kill those tanks especially when those tanks are practically god mode with their invulnerability fields active.

Sorry, but the swarm launcher range is perfect as it is. I would know as I am an AV swarm user myself skilled into advanced tier. The locking range is no problem as you only need to be smart about how you approach the situation. Their damage is also alright for their tier.

The principle issue with the swarm launchers is their application of the damage they have. Here is a video posted on YouTube by the famous Judge Rhadamanthus himself.

http://youtu.be/ls7hOEdNgXE

As you can see, swarms have no problem locking onto him at the current range. Again, it's the application of said damage that is flawed. Something is wrong with the math that needs to be changed.

Anyways, when it comes to AV weaponry in general, I'm guessing it should be ok to exempt the AV grenades since it take a lot of effort to kill those tanks especially when those tanks are practically god mode with their invulnerability fields active.

I don't agree with that . I don't see the need to say that I have Prototype swarms or talk about how many skill points that I have placed in swarms , PM's , RE's or grenades because that doesn't equate to any success or failure rates for you to be able to understand . Different players have different results so when people like to speak on those terms I tend to ignore the conversation . I don't need to talk about skill points , level 5 this or that because that's not a gauge of success , seeing as how it's these same people who talk about how their weapons ... which are at top tier , is just not powerful enough and that they should OKH players with one shot continually .

I speak about range because , if range was increased then more salvo's would come into play ... so there would be no need to increase or even tweak the DPS of swarms . Lock times suffer as well when you speak about the speed of vehicles . the specialist and assault SL have a longer lock times ( even with the skill bonus they suffer ) and it's that " hard lock " that allows vehicles to retreat easier , that coupled with less range .. so when I speak about range , it's about the bettering of SL's to help them become more efficient .

I am one who is against it . I believe A.V. grenades should be the exception . Keep FG's at their current level and increase SL range . If you increase the range you don't have to increase the DPS seeing as how one would be able to gain a lock sooner ( Kill the hard lock on the specialist and assault ) , so that will allow for more SL rounds to be administered . As one goes up the tiers their SL gains more DPS anyway so adding extra DPS would just bring us back to 1.6 .

AV Grenades make a dedicated AV fitting in the same way Locus Grenades on a dual Swarm Commando are a practical and reliable anti-infantry weapon.

They aren't, and if they are, they shouldn't be.

AV Grenade nerf is NOT the same as AV nerf.

Actual primary weapon AV needs a buff. AV Grenades do not. This is perfectly reasonable to ensure that the primary AV role is handled by dedicated AV fittings, and not by infantry slayers with FOTM Rifle/FOTM Sidearm and AV grenades.

Not just grenades, but the Complex Dmg mods being cut in half also jack things up. Three equals about 23 percent dmg boost to FG or Swarms but NOW three Complex Dmg Mods will only be about 11 percent.

I don't think you read the whole thread.

EDIT:

In addition, Hives are getting a nerf so sitting on hives and tossing grenades and launching swarms is severely hampered. This is a triple angled nerf to AV....period. Saying anything otherwise is completely ignorant.

No knock to Judge but someone can make a video showing the success of swarms or the fact that if players would use team work , that it would be much easier to deal with vehicles . He shows problems but someone else could show that it's more about players and what they feel is a priority during a match . Would you put up an effort and attempt to combat or would you like to just rush to judgment and post comments on the forums QQing about a " situation " that could be solved with attention to detail and hard work ?

All I'm saying is , that when I'm in battle and there is " tank spam " I just don't see to many players rushing to combat the threat .
People talk about SL's ineffectiveness and all but with a concerted effort by SL's and FG's , problems could be solved within a matter of moments in quelling militia tanks or vehicles in general .

There is always two sides .

CCP has a plan. even though they are nefing the nades im sure that they will buff av. I hope.

I thought of a amazing AV for for 1.8...

-Scout
Equipment: cloak and advanced RE
-swarms
-SMG
-AV or flux grenades


Step 1: find a tank
Step 2: turn on cloak, wait for it to come close.
Step 3. Get behind the tank, load it with REs
Step 4. Boom. Finish with swarms

Just an idea.

I'm really not looking forward to 1.8 now. AV is getting nerfed...period. Doesn't matter whether the nerf is soley for AV or not. AV is still getting nerfed. Heavies, if their HP is not lowered, will be practically invincible b/c they are fixing TTK supposedly. Now I deal less damage to 2k HP heavies...yay! Drop ships are going to be more succesful simply b/c breach forges with stacked damage mods are useles...again back to AV. But hey, we have cloaks right? :P

I mean, you also have the issue with drop uplinks. Domination is FAST if the null doesn't change hands often. The whole key to Dom is uplink placement. Now, It is going to take an average of 1.5 times longer to spawn in? So basically whoever gets the null first with a reasonable size party and is proto is going to keep it.

I am one who is against it . I believe A.V. grenades should be the exception . Keep FG's at their current level and increase SL range . If you increase the range you don't have to increase the DPS seeing as how one would be able to gain a lock sooner ( Kill the hard lock on the specialist and assault ) , so that will allow for more SL rounds to be administered . As one goes up the tiers their SL gains more DPS anyway so adding extra DPS would just bring us back to 1.6 .

Swarms also need more speed.

On my alt today, I threw three AV grenades at an unhardened Sica and brought it down to low shield / armor. It had three sets of swarms chasing after it as it sped off 50 meters over a hill and escaped our swarms.

Let's also not mention the Viper that also managed to escape and outrun the three of us again (same battle) in low armor.

So swarms need increased range and more speed.

AV grenades should be kept at three.

Forge guns are fine (I can only speak from the receiving end). I think it's fair that it takes three forge shots to put my Gunnlogi into very low shield (unhardened) if I have an extender fitted. Let's see how 1.8 will play out.

If CCP severely hampers the dual hardener bitches two AV nades might be sufficient enough if 3 ppl throw them it will be approx 900 proto nades x 6, most of the tanks flee with that kind of damage without hardeners. There is definitly a problem with Tank harderners and effectiveness of forges and swarms. If the last two receives 20% buffs we might get to an even playing field.

OMG!

You're RIGHT!

I never realised that Nanohives and Damage Mods were exclusively designed for AV, and that nobody playing as anti-infantry would ever want to use them for their own weapons!



Yes, the damage mod thing will be a problem if the (already borderline UP) primary AV weapons aren't buffed. And yes, Swarms are more than just borderline, they need a buff even before considering the change to damage mods. But no, the Hive change isn't a direct nerf to AV. It's a nerf to anyone filling that aspect of the Logistics role, even on the level of only resupplying themselves. And no, a nerf to infantry in general and a nerf to AV Grenades are NOT an AV nerf.

Most AV needed a buff before these changes, and most AV will need more of a buff if it doesn't come with 1.8 already. But this is NOT a direct nerf to AV.

Also, the fact that I specifically chose to refer to the comment about AV Grenades doesn't negate the possibility of me reading your other points as well. I chose that point because you'd focused a lot of attention on it, not only in the OP, but in replies to people adding their thoughts.

The problem with these simple calls for buffing AV to balance AV vs Tanks is that it will again throw off the balance for Dropships, which is for the first time in quite awhile in a pretty good and fair spot.

Slowing tank's top speed down so that us AV users actually have enough time to put the damage onto them needed to drop them would be a much better solution, and would also require tankers to actually think and play more tactically. The real issue with tanks is that they are just too fast, so once their hardeners run down, they can usually just run off into the redline and out of the range of AV weapons before anyone could put lethal damage onto them.

I also think Armor/Shield Hardeners should be limited to one per vehicle so that they can't be stacked and toggled.

A 20% reduction on speed and a 1 hardener cap would completely balance tanks IMO.

I believe the following is what needs to be done in total in order to properly balance AV vs Vehicles. Again, I believe everything here needs to be done or something very similar.

1) Decrease vehicle turret damage by 10% as a whole.

2) Max resistance to damage should not exceed 70% but I would prefer 60%. So Double hardners aren't as effective as they have been. If 3 people are launching a 12k effective damage on a drop ship and all of them hit then there should be at least 3.6k damage at a minimum. Another option is to have a minimum damage taken. For example, a tank can never take less than 90 damage from each swarm missle or something to that effect applied to FG's as well in proportion to the damage per projectile.

3) There should be a speed cap on every vehicle except LAV's

4) If AV grenades are seriously going down to 2 for clip size then I believe they should get a 20% damage buff.

5) Increase swarm speed to about 1.3x. it just needs a little boost tbh.

6) Increase damage for Swarm launchers by 10% OR Increase total missles by 1 or 2.

7) Increase effective HP for Dropships by 10%.

8) Damage mods for vehicles need the same nerf that Infantry Damage Mods are getting

9) A maximum Damage per shot/projectile for all vehicles. Stacking damage mods on blasters and rail turrets is getting ridiculous.

Optional stuff:

1) Normal weapons should have a bit more effect against vehicles. I believe that they should bring back normal weapons causing shields to not recharge. At least create a penalty of .01% increase in delay for every bullet. If 3 people are firing HMG's at a tank then it should never get it's shields back IMO.

2) Remove Proximity RE alerts to tankers.


I would not change PG/CPU requirements.

As an additional note, I run Proto AV grenades. If I throw three at an LAV that is unmanned, I usually take it out after the shields are gone. So I don't quite understand how some people have so much difficulty with them.

All you are doing is nerfing and buffing.....not tweaking.