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darkiller240 WarRavens League of Infamy 606	Posted - 2014.03.21 10:29:00 - [1] - Quote so? "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 8581	Posted - 2014.03.21 10:37:00 - [2] - Quote darkiller240 wrote: so? Balance between AV and HAV is not something you can easily hot fix just like that.....mitigating the effect of HAV on the map by allowing AV to be slightly buffed for a time could help......but could unbalance dropship gameplay...... Eventually AV will have to draw a line in the sand a say. These are our static values, now you go balance vehicles around those values...... "Get thine Swag out of my face! Next you'll be writing #YOLOswagforJamyl in all your posts!" -Dagger Two
darkiller240 WarRavens League of Infamy 606	Posted - 2014.03.21 10:40:00 - [3] - Quote True Adamance wrote: darkiller240 wrote: so? Balance between AV and HAV is not something you can easily hot fix just like that.....mitigating the effect of HAV on the map by allowing AV to be slightly buffed for a time could help......but could unbalance dropship gameplay...... Eventually AV will have to draw a line in the sand a say. These are our static values, now you go balance vehicles around those values...... yes so the tank nerf its been 4 months "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 8581	Posted - 2014.03.21 10:47:00 - [4] - Quote darkiller240 wrote: True Adamance wrote: darkiller240 wrote: so? Balance between AV and HAV is not something you can easily hot fix just like that.....mitigating the effect of HAV on the map by allowing AV to be slightly buffed for a time could help......but could unbalance dropship gameplay...... Eventually AV will have to draw a line in the sand a say. These are our static values, now you go balance vehicles around those values...... yes so the tank nerf its been 4 months And Vehicles suffered under OP AV for near of 6 months..... but lets not get into a game of tit for tat as that makes us both look stupid. Fact of the matter is Tweaks need to occur......you use the term hot fix.....I assume you mean swing the nerfbat. To what end. You get 4 month of time ignoring vehicles only to have them buffed again when the other side of the community points out that vehicles are UP again..... I would definitely like to hear your suggestions for a hot fix my personal favourites are Reductions of Shield and Armour Hardener Resistances to 50% and 35% respectfully (a 10% nerf on shields since no current AV options allow for anti shield combat, and 5% initially on armour to test for future adjustments) An increase in fitting costs of Hardener units to make stacking them less desireable. Also a new favourite a timer between activations of hardeners equall to half that hardeners cool down period (usually allowing for between 25 and 45 seconds of harderner down time) reinforcing the waves of opportunity. I am also discussing with Alena Ventraliss about balancing armour efficiencies on different faces of an HAV allowing for Mines and AV genades if tossed properly to serve better AV roles and allow for HAV to attack and defend in a more tactical manner. "Get thine Swag out of my face! Next you'll be writing #YOLOswagforJamyl in all your posts!" -Dagger Two
Broonfondle Majikthies Dogs of War Gaming Zero-Day 973	Posted - 2014.03.21 10:49:00 - [5] - Quote Hotfix?? Your optimistic "...where Bylothgar the Ill-postured was made King of the People With No Name But Decent Footwear"
Michael Arck Onuoto Uakan Huogaatsu Lokun Listamenn 3641	Posted - 2014.03.21 10:50:00 - [6] - Quote My swarms demand... MORE POW WAH!!! Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Are you OUKH?
darkiller240 WarRavens League of Infamy 606	Posted - 2014.03.21 10:56:00 - [7] - Quote True Adamance wrote: darkiller240 wrote: True Adamance wrote: darkiller240 wrote: so? Balance between AV and HAV is not something you can easily hot fix just like that.....mitigating the effect of HAV on the map by allowing AV to be slightly buffed for a time could help......but could unbalance dropship gameplay...... Eventually AV will have to draw a line in the sand a say. These are our static values, now you go balance vehicles around those values...... yes so the tank nerf its been 4 months And Vehicles suffered under OP AV for near of 6 months..... but lets not get into a game of tit for tat as that makes us both look stupid. Fact of the matter is Tweaks need to occur......you use the term hot fix.....I assume you mean swing the nerfbat. To what end. You get 4 month of time ignoring vehicles only to have them buffed again when the other side of the community points out that vehicles are UP again..... I would definitely like to hear your suggestions for a hot fix my personal favourites are Reductions of Shield and Armour Hardener Resistances to 50% and 35% respectfully (a 10% nerf on shields since no current AV options allow for anti shield combat, and 5% initially on armour to test for future adjustments) An increase in fitting costs of Hardener units to make stacking them less desireable. Also a new favourite a timer between activations of hardeners equall to half that hardeners cool down period (usually allowing for between 25 and 45 seconds of harderner down time) reinforcing the waves of opportunity. I am also discussing with Alena Ventraliss about balancing armour efficiencies on different faces of an HAV allowing for Mines and AV genades if tossed properly to serve better AV roles and allow for HAV to attack and defend in a more tactical manner. No your not getting me Tanks are OP they need to be slower and cost more "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein
GHOSTLY ANNIHILATOR Ahrendee Mercenaries General Tso's Alliance 1153	Posted - 2014.03.21 10:56:00 - [8] - Quote Let me point this out there does not need to be any hotfix, nerf , bufff / ETC You are the only one that chooses how you use ur tank / dropship/ suit / gun etc. The fact that ur dieing by a tank is because you let that happen I went inside a soma today with a militia blaster and went 19 - 1 The fact is that somebody got tired of me killing them and finally took out another tank and killed me Did i make the other team mad sure but did something happen in the end ? Yes U choose how u use ur vehicle so stop crying and adapt. AMARR PROTO DONUT PROFICIENCY 5 I MAKE DUST VIDEOS CLICK HERE FOR DONUTS :)
darkiller240 WarRavens League of Infamy 606	Posted - 2014.03.21 11:06:00 - [9] - Quote GHOSTLY ANNIHILATOR wrote: Let me point this out there does not need to be any hotfix, nerf , bufff / ETC You are the only one that chooses how you use ur tank / dropship/ suit / gun etc. The fact that ur dieing by a tank is because you let that happen I went inside a soma today with a militia blaster and went 19 - 1 The fact is that somebody got tired of me killing them and finally took out another tank and killed me Did i make the other team mad sure but did something happen in the end ? Yes U choose how u use ur vehicle so stop crying and adapt. well NOOB ALEART! "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein
TranquilBiscuit ofVaLoR Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 1794	Posted - 2014.03.21 11:14:00 - [10] - Quote ok, darkiller240, i'll let you in on something. these replies that you're giving that take all of 5 seconds to think of make you look like an idiot. when you have people giving well constructed replies to your quite frankly pointless thread, then it's common sense to at least take the time to reply back properly. with that being said, i agree that something needs to be done between AV and vehicle balance, more specifically SWARM and AV balance, but a simple hotfix is not the answer. i'm no AV / Vehicle expert, so i'm not going to try to suggest anything. i'll leave that to the people that have taken the time to seriously look into that stuff. Anime > EVERYTHING

darkiller240 WarRavens League of Infamy 606	Posted - 2014.03.21 11:16:00 - [11] - Quote TranquilBiscuit ofVaLoR wrote: ok, darkiller240, i'll let you in on something. these replies that you're giving that take all of 5 seconds to think of make you look like an idiot. when you have people giving well constructed replies to your quite frankly pointless thread, then it's common sense to at least take the time to reply back properly. with that being said, i agree that something needs to be done between AV and vehicle balance, more specifically SWARM and AV balance, but a simple hotfix is not the answer. i'm no AV / Vehicle expert, so i'm not going to try to suggest anything. i'll leave that to the people that have taken the time to seriously look into that stuff. A simple hotfix wont resolve? What other problems are there with the tanks balance? that as simple stat change wont fix? "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein
The Robot Devil Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2081	Posted - 2014.03.21 11:23:00 - [12] - Quote TranquilBiscuit ofVaLoR wrote: ok, darkiller240, i'll let you in on something. these replies that you're giving that take all of 5 seconds to think of make you look like an idiot. when you have people giving well constructed replies to your quite frankly pointless thread, then it's common sense to at least take the time to reply back properly. with that being said, i agree that something needs to be done between AV and vehicle balance, more specifically SWARM and AV balance, but a simple hotfix is not the answer. i'm no AV / Vehicle expert, so i'm not going to try to suggest anything. i'll leave that to the people that have taken the time to seriously look into that stuff. Pretty much how I see it also. I don't know the answer to AV but I think will end up being some type of fitting cost increase. The reason I say that is that a pilot should have to choose between high EHP, high damage or a low mixture of both. I don't want to see pilots screwed and I think that good fits and/or pilots should be reward with performance. We are very close to vehicles being in a good place but they need to be slowly tweaked until the right stats are determined. "One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production." Raoul Duke
Korvin Lomont United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 791	Posted - 2014.03.21 11:29:00 - [13] - Quote True Adamance wrote: darkiller240 wrote: True Adamance wrote: darkiller240 wrote: so? Balance between AV and HAV is not something you can easily hot fix just like that.....mitigating the effect of HAV on the map by allowing AV to be slightly buffed for a time could help......but could unbalance dropship gameplay...... Eventually AV will have to draw a line in the sand a say. These are our static values, now you go balance vehicles around those values...... yes so the tank nerf its been 4 months And Vehicles suffered under OP AV for near of 6 months..... but lets not get into a game of tit for tat as that makes us both look stupid. Fact of the matter is Tweaks need to occur......you use the term hot fix.....I assume you mean swing the nerfbat. To what end. You get 4 month of time ignoring vehicles only to have them buffed again when the other side of the community points out that vehicles are UP again..... I would definitely like to hear your suggestions for a hot fix my personal favourites are Reductions of Shield and Armour Hardener Resistances to 50% and 35% respectfully (a 10% nerf on shields since no current AV options allow for anti shield combat, and 5% initially on armour to test for future adjustments) An increase in fitting costs of Hardener units to make stacking them less desireable. Also a new favourite a timer between activations of hardeners equall to half that hardeners cool down period (usually allowing for between 25 and 45 seconds of harderner down time) reinforcing the waves of opportunity. I am also discussing with Alena Ventraliss about balancing armour efficiencies on different faces of an HAV allowing for Mines and AV genades if tossed properly to serve better AV roles and allow for HAV to attack and defend in a more tactical manner. Yeah but tanks where pretty op before more than once so CCP is moving in circles here. Not to forget even in 1.6 AV was not THAT op compared to the current HAV's Opness...
Echo 1991 WarRavens League of Infamy 134	Posted - 2014.03.21 11:38:00 - [14] - Quote Am i the only person that thinks AV is fine (apart from Swarm range) and that the problem is tank speed and modules? That is the problem with tanks.
darkiller240 WarRavens League of Infamy 606	Posted - 2014.03.21 11:39:00 - [15] - Quote Echo 1991 wrote: Am i the only person that thinks AV is fine (apart from Swarm range) and that the problem is tank speed and modules? That is the problem with tanks. no ur not i think they should be slower and cost more "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein
Echo 1991 WarRavens League of Infamy 134	Posted - 2014.03.21 11:40:00 - [16] - Quote darkiller240 wrote: Echo 1991 wrote: Am i the only person that thinks AV is fine (apart from Swarm range) and that the problem is tank speed and modules? That is the problem with tanks. no ur not i think they should be slower and cost more Damage is gonna need to go up on swarms as they butchered dmg mods making AV even worse.
darkiller240 WarRavens League of Infamy 606	Posted - 2014.03.21 11:44:00 - [17] - Quote Echo 1991 wrote: darkiller240 wrote: Echo 1991 wrote: Am i the only person that thinks AV is fine (apart from Swarm range) and that the problem is tank speed and modules? That is the problem with tanks. no ur not i think they should be slower and cost more Damage is gonna need to go up on swarms as they butchered dmg mods making AV even worse. well yes and no if you look at the efficiency rating on swarms on ground vehicles its always 80% while on dropships its always 55% so its more about increase the effective ratting then buff damage "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein
KatanaPT Tech Guard RISE of LEGION 604	Posted - 2014.03.21 11:49:00 - [18] - Quote GHOSTLY ANNIHILATOR wrote: Let me point this out there does not need to be any hotfix, nerf , bufff / ETC You are the only one that chooses how you use ur tank / dropship/ suit / gun etc. The fact that ur dieing by a tank is because you let that happen I went inside a soma today with a militia blaster and went 19 - 1 The fact is that somebody got tired of me killing them and finally took out another tank and killed me Did i make the other team mad sure but did something happen in the end ? Yes U choose how u use ur vehicle so stop crying and adapt. Dude...lol... what are you smoking? Tech Guard Recruiting Spot
Echo 1991 WarRavens League of Infamy 134	Posted - 2014.03.21 11:55:00 - [19] - Quote darkiller240 wrote: Echo 1991 wrote: darkiller240 wrote: Echo 1991 wrote: Am i the only person that thinks AV is fine (apart from Swarm range) and that the problem is tank speed and modules? That is the problem with tanks. no ur not i think they should be slower and cost more Damage is gonna need to go up on swarms as they butchered dmg mods making AV even worse. well yes and no if you look at the efficiency rating on swarms on ground vehicles its always 80% while on dropships its always 55% so its more about increase the effective ratting then buff damage so a proto swarm is gonna only do 726 dmg to a dropship and 1056 dmg to ground vehicles per salvo. then you have to take into account hardeners shields take 60% less so:726 - (726 x 0.6) = 290.4 dmg to a Shield dropship with a shield hardener and 1056 - (1056 x 0.6) = 422.4 dmg to a shield tank with a shield hardener. Proficiency will not increase damage to shields with swarms, the bonus will be to armour. Swarms will be useless against any shield based vehicle next patch unless damage is increased or shield hardeners get nerfed like crazy.
Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p 235	Posted - 2014.03.21 12:04:00 - [20] - Quote GHOSTLY ANNIHILATOR wrote: Let me point this out there does not need to be any hotfix, nerf , bufff / ETC You are the only one that chooses how you use ur tank / dropship/ suit / gun etc. The fact that ur dieing by a tank is because you let that happen I went inside a soma today with a militia blaster and went 19 - 1 The fact is that somebody got tired of me killing them and finally took out another tank and killed me Did i make the other team mad sure but did something happen in the end ? Yes U choose how u use ur vehicle so stop crying and adapt. poor thing. you died to an enemy OP machine. infantry AV should be=tank AV Kills-Archduke Ferdinand Balance!

Idye Lotz xCosmic Voidx Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 225	Posted - 2014.03.21 12:10:00 - [21] - Quote My opinion for what it is worth: Counters: Everything should have a counter. A lot of talk about hardeners, one thing to look at is say Armor hardeners only effective against Forge, and Rail weapons, while Shield protect against swarms. Or whatever combination of those two make sense. One thing AVers tend to forget is other tanks make a great anti vehicle, and rail tanks are made mostly for that reason. I enjoy good tank battles as much (hey more than killing infantry when I am in a tank). Rather than get the nerf bat out buff Forge, Rail VS Shields and Swarms VS Armor Installation Drops: Remember when these where in the works? Have the gone away? I mean the player bought and place installations. Imagine if a tanker was dominating a match and then someone drops a well placed rail turret and all of a sudden that tank has new problems to worry about. Cost I think it should currently stay as is. Seriously, when tanks where going for close to a million no one but the very best could tank, and that was reserved for those that got their starts early and had enough skill points invested. There was nothing wrong with that per say but it left the gate for new tankers as a long and boring journey (using militia fits with no SP invested in infantry for 10 matches to replace a militia tank that was destroyed before it hit the ground). I play mostly as infantry, but my opinion is that Tanks were under powered and overpriced for a long time. I know ever once and a while a tanker would come along and do well, and everyone would say oh yeah tanks are so underpowered. But to truly see how much they are underpowered you needed to sit in one. Most matches you would get a few shots and retreat. I'am not saying they are underpowered now they were. Right now they are close to being balanced. Sorry for shooting you in the back. Now please look elsewhere so I can continue.
Rynoceros Rise Of Old Dudes 3216	Posted - 2014.03.21 12:13:00 - [22] - Quote They're fine. Everything is working as intended. They spent months balancing AV before we got 1.7 so surely they fully tested it and were happy with the outcome. They have given no indication that something went awry or that they messed up. That's what responsible companies like CCP do. They own their mistakes and learn from them because building a solid base of satisfied customers is how you build a business. I GÖú Kittens.
Echo 1991 WarRavens League of Infamy 134	Posted - 2014.03.21 12:25:00 - [23] - Quote Idye Lotz wrote: My opinion for what it is worth: Counters: Everything should have a counter. A lot of talk about hardeners, one thing to look at is say Armor hardeners only effective against Forge, and Rail weapons, while Shield protect against swarms. Or whatever combination of those two make sense. One thing AVers tend to forget is other tanks make a great anti vehicle, and rail tanks are made mostly for that reason. I enjoy good tank battles as much (hey more than killing infantry when I am in a tank). Rather than get the nerf bat out buff Forge, Rail VS Shields and Swarms VS Armor Installation Drops: Remember when these where in the works? Have the gone away? I mean the player bought and place installations. Imagine if a tanker was dominating a match and then someone drops a well placed rail turret and all of a sudden that tank has new problems to worry about. Cost I think it should currently stay as is. Seriously, when tanks where going for close to a million no one but the very best could tank, and that was reserved for those that got their starts early and had enough skill points invested. There was nothing wrong with that per say but it left the gate for new tankers as a long and boring journey (using militia fits with no SP invested in infantry for 10 matches to replace a militia tank that was destroyed before it hit the ground). I play mostly as infantry, but my opinion is that Tanks were under powered and overpriced for a long time. I know ever once and a while a tanker would come along and do well, and everyone would say oh yeah tanks are so underpowered. But to truly see how much they are underpowered you needed to sit in one. Most matches you would get a few shots and retreat. I'am not saying they are underpowered now they were. Right now they are close to being balanced. Swarms are explosive damage. armour hardeners help against that. The only shield AV weapon is the Plasma cannon and even that thing is terrible..
darkiller240 WarRavens League of Infamy 608	Posted - 2014.03.21 12:36:00 - [24] - Quote Echo 1991 wrote: Idye Lotz wrote: My opinion for what it is worth: Counters: Everything should have a counter. A lot of talk about hardeners, one thing to look at is say Armor hardeners only effective against Forge, and Rail weapons, while Shield protect against swarms. Or whatever combination of those two make sense. One thing AVers tend to forget is other tanks make a great anti vehicle, and rail tanks are made mostly for that reason. I enjoy good tank battles as much (hey more than killing infantry when I am in a tank). Rather than get the nerf bat out buff Forge, Rail VS Shields and Swarms VS Armor Installation Drops: Remember when these where in the works? Have the gone away? I mean the player bought and place installations. Imagine if a tanker was dominating a match and then someone drops a well placed rail turret and all of a sudden that tank has new problems to worry about. Cost I think it should currently stay as is. Seriously, when tanks where going for close to a million no one but the very best could tank, and that was reserved for those that got their starts early and had enough skill points invested. There was nothing wrong with that per say but it left the gate for new tankers as a long and boring journey (using militia fits with no SP invested in infantry for 10 matches to replace a militia tank that was destroyed before it hit the ground). I play mostly as infantry, but my opinion is that Tanks were under powered and overpriced for a long time. I know ever once and a while a tanker would come along and do well, and everyone would say oh yeah tanks are so underpowered. But to truly see how much they are underpowered you needed to sit in one. Most matches you would get a few shots and retreat. I'am not saying they are underpowered now they were. Right now they are close to being balanced. Swarms are explosive damage. armour hardeners help against that. The only shield AV weapon is the Plasma cannon and even that thing is terrible.. yes but shields are terrible "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein
Echo 1991 WarRavens League of Infamy 134	Posted - 2014.03.21 12:37:00 - [25] - Quote darkiller240 wrote: Echo 1991 wrote: Idye Lotz wrote: My opinion for what it is worth: Counters: Everything should have a counter. A lot of talk about hardeners, one thing to look at is say Armor hardeners only effective against Forge, and Rail weapons, while Shield protect against swarms. Or whatever combination of those two make sense. One thing AVers tend to forget is other tanks make a great anti vehicle, and rail tanks are made mostly for that reason. I enjoy good tank battles as much (hey more than killing infantry when I am in a tank). Rather than get the nerf bat out buff Forge, Rail VS Shields and Swarms VS Armor Installation Drops: Remember when these where in the works? Have the gone away? I mean the player bought and place installations. Imagine if a tanker was dominating a match and then someone drops a well placed rail turret and all of a sudden that tank has new problems to worry about. Cost I think it should currently stay as is. Seriously, when tanks where going for close to a million no one but the very best could tank, and that was reserved for those that got their starts early and had enough skill points invested. There was nothing wrong with that per say but it left the gate for new tankers as a long and boring journey (using militia fits with no SP invested in infantry for 10 matches to replace a militia tank that was destroyed before it hit the ground). I play mostly as infantry, but my opinion is that Tanks were under powered and overpriced for a long time. I know ever once and a while a tanker would come along and do well, and everyone would say oh yeah tanks are so underpowered. But to truly see how much they are underpowered you needed to sit in one. Most matches you would get a few shots and retreat. I'am not saying they are underpowered now they were. Right now they are close to being balanced. Swarms are explosive damage. armour hardeners help against that. The only shield AV weapon is the Plasma cannon and even that thing is terrible.. yes but shields are terrible Really? funny they seem to be able to tank a lot better than armour.
Auris Lionesse Capital Acquisitions LLC 496	Posted - 2014.03.21 12:48:00 - [26] - Quote Echo 1991 wrote: darkiller240 wrote: Echo 1991 wrote: darkiller240 wrote: Echo 1991 wrote: Am i the only person that thinks AV is fine (apart from Swarm range) and that the problem is tank speed and modules? That is the problem with tanks. no ur not i think they should be slower and cost more Damage is gonna need to go up on swarms as they butchered dmg mods making AV even worse. well yes and no if you look at the efficiency rating on swarms on ground vehicles its always 80% while on dropships its always 55% so its more about increase the effective ratting then buff damage so a proto swarm is gonna only do 726 dmg to a dropship and 1056 dmg to ground vehicles per salvo. then you have to take into account hardeners shields take 60% less so:726 - (726 x 0.6) = 290.4 dmg to a Shield dropship with a shield hardener and 1056 - (1056 x 0.6) = 422.4 dmg to a shield tank with a shield hardener. Proficiency will not increase damage to shields with swarms, the bonus will be to armour. Swarms will be useless against any shield based vehicle next patch unless damage is increased or shield hardeners get nerfed like crazy. proto swarms are only doing 37-50 damage a missile against hardeners. So more like 300damage lol Gallente Heavy Ninja Turtles! Gallente Heavy Ninja Turtles! Heroes in a half Gank! *TURTLE POWER!!!*
Drapedup Drippedout 0uter.Heaven 619	Posted - 2014.03.21 12:48:00 - [27] - Quote Rynoceros wrote: They're fine. Everything is working as intended. They spent months balancing AV before we got 1.7 so surely they fully tested it and were happy with the outcome. They have given no indication that something went awry or that they messed up. That's what responsible companies like CCP do. They own their mistakes and learn from them because building a solid base of satisfied customers is how you build a business. Lol insert sarcasm ^ here Testing, responsible and CCP all in the same paragraph. Now I've seen it all! Pro-fit Prophet "Gimme yo lunch money"
Echo 1991 WarRavens League of Infamy 134	Posted - 2014.03.21 12:52:00 - [28] - Quote Auris Lionesse wrote: proto swarms are only doing 37-50 damage a missile against hardeners. So more like 300damage lol 290.4/6 = 48.4 dmg per missile 422.4/6 = 70.6 dmg per missile The math is right. shields take 20% less damage and hardeners take 60% less damage from that.
Auris Lionesse Capital Acquisitions LLC 496	Posted - 2014.03.21 12:53:00 - [29] - Quote Drapedup Drippedout wrote: [quote=Rynoceros]They're fine. Everything is working as intended. They spent months balancing AV before we got 1.7 so surely they fully tested it and were happy with the outcome. They have given no indication that something went awry or that they messed up. That's what responsible companies like CCP do. They own their mistakes and learn from them because building a solid base of satisfied customers is how you build a business. Lol insert sarcasm ^ here Testing, responsible and CCP all in the same paragraph. Now I've seen it all![/quote Lol remember the tank speed at the start of 1.7 yeah they didn't test anything. They just don't want to come out and admit the whole vehicle redo was a giant leap in the wrong direction. Gallente Heavy Ninja Turtles! Gallente Heavy Ninja Turtles! Heroes in a half Gank! *TURTLE POWER!!!*
calisk galern BurgezzE.T.F General Tso's Alliance 2187	Posted - 2014.03.21 12:59:00 - [30] - Quote True Adamance wrote: darkiller240 wrote: so? Balance between AV and HAV is not something you can easily hot fix just like that.....mitigating the effect of HAV on the map by allowing AV to be slightly buffed for a time could help......but could unbalance dropship gameplay...... Eventually AV will have to draw a line in the sand a say. These are our static values, now you go balance vehicles around those values...... - drastically increase stacking penalty to using multiple mods on vehicles i.e weapon/hardeners etc. - reduce weapon module bonus from 40% to 30% - increase heat build up of blaster turrets by about 10%. - rail guns should be nerfed as well but not until infantry av is in a good place. - reduce reload time on missles by 1 second - reduce shield depleted time on the gunlogi's - fix swarm launcher bug - an increase to swarm damage is probably in order, but double buffes in the same patch should be avoided - increase to av grenade damage - increase to proximity mine damage and an increase to proximity mine splash range of about 6m - forge gun damage should be increased slightly in regards to the 1.8 changes. - plasma launcher should deal increased damage to vehicles only. it's not perfect but i don't have any data to base real numbers on, just the direction i'd go.

darkiller240 WarRavens League of Infamy 610	Posted - 2014.03.21 13:28:00 - [31] - Quote Echo 1991 wrote: darkiller240 wrote: Echo 1991 wrote: Idye Lotz wrote: My opinion for what it is worth: Counters: Everything should have a counter. A lot of talk about hardeners, one thing to look at is say Armor hardeners only effective against Forge, and Rail weapons, while Shield protect against swarms. Or whatever combination of those two make sense. One thing AVers tend to forget is other tanks make a great anti vehicle, and rail tanks are made mostly for that reason. I enjoy good tank battles as much (hey more than killing infantry when I am in a tank). Rather than get the nerf bat out buff Forge, Rail VS Shields and Swarms VS Armor Installation Drops: Remember when these where in the works? Have the gone away? I mean the player bought and place installations. Imagine if a tanker was dominating a match and then someone drops a well placed rail turret and all of a sudden that tank has new problems to worry about. Cost I think it should currently stay as is. Seriously, when tanks where going for close to a million no one but the very best could tank, and that was reserved for those that got their starts early and had enough skill points invested. There was nothing wrong with that per say but it left the gate for new tankers as a long and boring journey (using militia fits with no SP invested in infantry for 10 matches to replace a militia tank that was destroyed before it hit the ground). I play mostly as infantry, but my opinion is that Tanks were under powered and overpriced for a long time. I know ever once and a while a tanker would come along and do well, and everyone would say oh yeah tanks are so underpowered. But to truly see how much they are underpowered you needed to sit in one. Most matches you would get a few shots and retreat. I'am not saying they are underpowered now they were. Right now they are close to being balanced. Swarms are explosive damage. armour hardeners help against that. The only shield AV weapon is the Plasma cannon and even that thing is terrible.. yes but shields are terrible Really? funny they seem to be able to tank a lot better than armour. no they cant no way near in fact "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein
Echo 1991 WarRavens League of Infamy 134	Posted - 2014.03.21 13:37:00 - [32] - Quote i can still damage a armour tank while hardened. i cant scratch a shield tank.
Duke Noobiam Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 38	Posted - 2014.03.21 13:46:00 - [33] - Quote darkiller240 wrote: TranquilBiscuit ofVaLoR wrote: ok, darkiller240, i'll let you in on something. these replies that you're giving that take all of 5 seconds to think of make you look like an idiot. when you have people giving well constructed replies to your quite frankly pointless thread, then it's common sense to at least take the time to reply back properly. with that being said, i agree that something needs to be done between AV and vehicle balance, more specifically SWARM and AV balance, but a simple hotfix is not the answer. i'm no AV / Vehicle expert, so i'm not going to try to suggest anything. i'll leave that to the people that have taken the time to seriously look into that stuff. A simple hotfix wont resolve? What other problems are there with the tanks balance? that as simple stat change wont fix? What other problems are there with the tanks balance? that as simple stat change wont fix? There's a problem with the tank and dropship shield recharge delay after getting hit by swarms. This is due to the fact that individual missiles do not do enough damage to force a delay in the shield recharge, so basically, the shields recharge faster than the swarms can damage them. No easy (data only) hot fix for this as CCP will have to change code for this and I doubt they're going to want to do a hard coded hack and will rather want to incorporate more flexibility in how this is implemented which will require testing to ensure they didn't break existing shield recharge functionality. When the red river runs, take the dirt road.
darkiller240 WarRavens League of Infamy 610	Posted - 2014.03.21 14:06:00 - [34] - Quote Echo 1991 wrote: i can still damage a armour tank while hardened. i cant scratch a shield tank. its an extra 10% Dont tell me its makes a huge difference also with bigger cooldown and longer duration + better tank without hardeners Amour is better "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein
Echo 1991 WarRavens League of Infamy 134	Posted - 2014.03.21 14:13:00 - [35] - Quote darkiller240 wrote: Echo 1991 wrote: i can still damage a armour tank while hardened. i cant scratch a shield tank. its an extra 10% Dont tell me its makes a huge difference also with bigger cooldown and longer duration + better tank without hardeners Amour is better thats why any gunnlogi with a hardener and missiles makes mincmeat of an armour tank. and the difference is 20%
darkiller240 WarRavens League of Infamy 610	Posted - 2014.03.21 14:32:00 - [36] - Quote Echo 1991 wrote: darkiller240 wrote: Echo 1991 wrote: i can still damage a armour tank while hardened. i cant scratch a shield tank. its an extra 10% Dont tell me its makes a huge difference also with bigger cooldown and longer duration + better tank without hardeners Amour is better thats why any gunnlogi with a hardener and missiles makes mincmeat of an armour tank. and the difference is 20% wait is it 20% hmm il have to take your word for it but even with 20% shield has MUCH less heath, once you get that regen down its dead ( its only takes about 150 ish damage i think ) also most of the time its not hardened because of the big cooldown and short duration "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein
DEATH DEALER 1975 KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 22	Posted - 2014.03.21 14:33:00 - [37] - Quote I heard I really good suggestion last night: Make it so the Tank's Damage mods are inactive while in the redline.
Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 1840	Posted - 2014.03.21 14:44:00 - [38] - Quote Echo 1991 wrote: Am i the only person that thinks AV is fine (apart from Swarm range) and that the problem is tank speed and modules? That is the problem with tanks. Balance comes down to balancing on the correct primary variables first - it the case of tanks i think you're right on the money. The two driving varibles of the tank/AV infantry balance equation are: 1) The differences in velocities between tanks and suits. 2) The time a tank can remain hardened, and what stacking hardener modules does to the time hardended/time vulnerable ratio. Any solution meant to work within CCP's WOO(waves of opportunity) model needs to look at these two varibles first. My preferred solution to 1) is web grenades, because the narrow that velocity gap but also require infantry to give up the damage potential of AV grenades. Preferred solution to 2) is a stacking penalty on hardeners for time active vs. cooldown and/or a hardener debuff in a piece of equipment/grenade/etc. I support SP rollover.
Echo 1991 WarRavens League of Infamy 134	Posted - 2014.03.21 15:22:00 - [39] - Quote darkiller240 wrote: Echo 1991 wrote: darkiller240 wrote: Echo 1991 wrote: i can still damage a armour tank while hardened. i cant scratch a shield tank. its an extra 10% Dont tell me its makes a huge difference also with bigger cooldown and longer duration + better tank without hardeners Amour is better thats why any gunnlogi with a hardener and missiles makes mincmeat of an armour tank. and the difference is 20% wait is it 20% hmm il have to take your word for it but even with 20% shield has MUCH less heath, once you get that regen down its dead ( its only takes about 150 ish damage i think ) also most of the time its not hardened because of the big cooldown and short duration i've come across perma hardened gunnlogis, swarms dont hurt them and cant deal enough dmg to stop the regen.
Bruttuss Brutor the stealth ninjas clan 2	Posted - 2014.03.21 15:29:00 - [40] - Quote This is a simple solution, but the guys how ride around killing infantry in a tank will not like this. Get rid of the blaster on tanks completely. In the end that's really all its used for. And whoever says that a blaster on a tank is not overpowered is two things, a dumb ass or, as I just said, someone that uses it to ride around and kill infantry. Ive done it my self, and nothing can touch you but a higher level blaster or a rail tank. sometimes an assault dropship, but it needs to have a proto weapon. And not only that but a lot of times teams are very unevenly matched, so you gotta think, sometimes newer guys don't always have access to call in a rail tank or even know how to build a good tank nor have the bank (isk) to build them. Then you have guys that say you just don't know how to tank. Thats BS, any body can ride around in god mode, in there blaster tank killing infantry. Like i said I have done it before to but I don't do it anymore because if you really think about it your just abusing the mistakes ccp have made. I know for a fact, the people that say this isn't a problem, are the people that do it. I use my tank to take out other tanks and installations, not killing infantry. Anybody that rides around killing infantry in a tank is a coward. Yea I said it.



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