so?

Balance between AV and HAV is not something you can easily hot fix just like that.....mitigating the effect of HAV on the map by allowing AV to be slightly buffed for a time could help......but could unbalance dropship gameplay......

Eventually AV will have to draw a line in the sand a say. These are our static values, now you go balance vehicles around those values......

yes so the tank nerf its been 4 months

And Vehicles suffered under OP AV for near of 6 months..... but lets not get into a game of tit for tat as that makes us both look stupid.

Fact of the matter is Tweaks need to occur......you use the term hot fix.....I assume you mean swing the nerfbat. To what end. You get 4 month of time ignoring vehicles only to have them buffed again when the other side of the community points out that vehicles are UP again.....

I would definitely like to hear your suggestions for a hot fix my personal favourites are

Reductions of Shield and Armour Hardener Resistances to 50% and 35% respectfully (a 10% nerf on shields since no current AV options allow for anti shield combat, and 5% initially on armour to test for future adjustments)

An increase in fitting costs of Hardener units to make stacking them less desireable.

Also a new favourite a timer between activations of hardeners equall to half that hardeners cool down period (usually allowing for between 25 and 45 seconds of harderner down time) reinforcing the waves of opportunity.

I am also discussing with Alena Ventraliss about balancing armour efficiencies on different faces of an HAV allowing for Mines and AV genades if tossed properly to serve better AV roles and allow for HAV to attack and defend in a more tactical manner.

Let me point this out there does not need to be any hotfix, nerf , bufff / ETC
You are the only one that chooses how you use ur tank / dropship/ suit / gun etc.
The fact that ur dieing by a tank is because you let that happen
I went inside a soma today with a militia blaster and went 19 - 1
The fact is that somebody got tired of me killing them and finally took out another tank and killed me
Did i make the other team mad sure but did something happen in the end ? Yes
U choose how u use ur vehicle so stop crying and adapt.

ok, darkiller240, i'll let you in on something. these replies that you're giving that take all of 5 seconds to think of make you look like an idiot. when you have people giving well constructed replies to your quite frankly pointless thread, then it's common sense to at least take the time to reply back properly.

with that being said, i agree that something needs to be done between AV and vehicle balance, more specifically SWARM and AV balance, but a simple hotfix is not the answer. i'm no AV / Vehicle expert, so i'm not going to try to suggest anything. i'll leave that to the people that have taken the time to seriously look into that stuff.

ok, darkiller240, i'll let you in on something. these replies that you're giving that take all of 5 seconds to think of make you look like an idiot. when you have people giving well constructed replies to your quite frankly pointless thread, then it's common sense to at least take the time to reply back properly.

with that being said, i agree that something needs to be done between AV and vehicle balance, more specifically SWARM and AV balance, but a simple hotfix is not the answer. i'm no AV / Vehicle expert, so i'm not going to try to suggest anything. i'll leave that to the people that have taken the time to seriously look into that stuff.

And Vehicles suffered under OP AV for near of 6 months..... but lets not get into a game of tit for tat as that makes us both look stupid.

Fact of the matter is Tweaks need to occur......you use the term hot fix.....I assume you mean swing the nerfbat. To what end. You get 4 month of time ignoring vehicles only to have them buffed again when the other side of the community points out that vehicles are UP again.....

I would definitely like to hear your suggestions for a hot fix my personal favourites are

Reductions of Shield and Armour Hardener Resistances to 50% and 35% respectfully (a 10% nerf on shields since no current AV options allow for anti shield combat, and 5% initially on armour to test for future adjustments)

An increase in fitting costs of Hardener units to make stacking them less desireable.

Also a new favourite a timer between activations of hardeners equall to half that hardeners cool down period (usually allowing for between 25 and 45 seconds of harderner down time) reinforcing the waves of opportunity.

I am also discussing with Alena Ventraliss about balancing armour efficiencies on different faces of an HAV allowing for Mines and AV genades if tossed properly to serve better AV roles and allow for HAV to attack and defend in a more tactical manner.

Am i the only person that thinks AV is fine (apart from Swarm range) and that the problem is tank speed and modules? That is the problem with tanks.

no ur not
i think they should be slower and cost more

Damage is gonna need to go up on swarms as they butchered dmg mods making AV even worse.

Let me point this out there does not need to be any hotfix, nerf , bufff / ETC
You are the only one that chooses how you use ur tank / dropship/ suit / gun etc.
The fact that ur dieing by a tank is because you let that happen
I went inside a soma today with a militia blaster and went 19 - 1
The fact is that somebody got tired of me killing them and finally took out another tank and killed me
Did i make the other team mad sure but did something happen in the end ? Yes
U choose how u use ur vehicle so stop crying and adapt.

well yes and no
if you look at the efficiency rating on swarms on ground vehicles its always 80%
while on dropships its always 55%
so its more about increase the effective ratting then buff damage

Let me point this out there does not need to be any hotfix, nerf , bufff / ETC
You are the only one that chooses how you use ur tank / dropship/ suit / gun etc.
The fact that ur dieing by a tank is because you let that happen
I went inside a soma today with a militia blaster and went 19 - 1
The fact is that somebody got tired of me killing them and finally took out another tank and killed me
Did i make the other team mad sure but did something happen in the end ? Yes
U choose how u use ur vehicle so stop crying and adapt.

My opinion for what it is worth:

Counters:
Everything should have a counter. A lot of talk about hardeners, one thing to look at is say Armor hardeners only effective against Forge, and Rail weapons, while Shield protect against swarms. Or whatever combination of those two make sense. One thing AVers tend to forget is other tanks make a great anti vehicle, and rail tanks are made mostly for that reason. I enjoy good tank battles as much (hey more than killing infantry when I am in a tank).

Rather than get the nerf bat out buff Forge, Rail VS Shields and Swarms VS Armor

Installation Drops:
Remember when these where in the works? Have the gone away? I mean the player bought and place installations. Imagine if a tanker was dominating a match and then someone drops a well placed rail turret and all of a sudden that tank has new problems to worry about.

Cost
I think it should currently stay as is. Seriously, when tanks where going for close to a million no one but the very best could tank, and that was reserved for those that got their starts early and had enough skill points invested. There was nothing wrong with that per say but it left the gate for new tankers as a long and boring journey (using militia fits with no SP invested in infantry for 10 matches to replace a militia tank that was destroyed before it hit the ground).

---

I play mostly as infantry, but my opinion is that Tanks were under powered and overpriced for a long time. I know ever once and a while a tanker would come along and do well, and everyone would say oh yeah tanks are so underpowered. But to truly see how much they are underpowered you needed to sit in one. Most matches you would get a few shots and retreat. I'am not saying they are underpowered now they were. Right now they are close to being balanced.

Swarms are explosive damage. armour hardeners help against that. The only shield AV weapon is the Plasma cannon and even that thing is terrible..

yes but shields are terrible

so a proto swarm is gonna only do 726 dmg to a dropship and 1056 dmg to ground vehicles per salvo. then you have to take into account hardeners shields take 60% less so:726 - (726 x 0.6) = 290.4 dmg to a Shield dropship with a shield hardener and 1056 - (1056 x 0.6) = 422.4 dmg to a shield tank with a shield hardener. Proficiency will not increase damage to shields with swarms, the bonus will be to armour. Swarms will be useless against any shield based vehicle next patch unless damage is increased or shield hardeners get nerfed like crazy.

They're fine.
Everything is working as intended.
They spent months balancing AV before we got 1.7 so surely they fully tested it and were happy with the outcome. They have given no indication that something went awry or that they messed up. That's what responsible companies like CCP do. They own their mistakes and learn from them because building a solid base of satisfied customers is how you build a business.

proto swarms are only doing 37-50 damage a missile against hardeners.
So more like 300damage lol

[quote=Rynoceros]They're fine.
Everything is working as intended.
They spent months balancing AV before we got 1.7 so surely they fully tested it and were happy with the outcome. They have given no indication that something went awry or that they messed up. That's what responsible companies like CCP do. They own their mistakes and learn from them because building a solid base of satisfied customers is how you build a business.

Balance between AV and HAV is not something you can easily hot fix just like that.....mitigating the effect of HAV on the map by allowing AV to be slightly buffed for a time could help......but could unbalance dropship gameplay......

Eventually AV will have to draw a line in the sand a say. These are our static values, now you go balance vehicles around those values......