DUST Search - So I spent the day with my proto swarms

Everything Dies wrote:

True Adamance wrote:

Also I dont think anyone necessarily expects you to require a full squad of AVers to take down and HAV.....but I fail to understand why if HAV have such an impact on infantry ground game......infantry doesnt make a more concerted effort to destroy HAV?

ANECDOTAL EVIDENCE ALERT: (Not to be taken as me making a statement of fact). I honestly dont see much AV in game. Not until our team is at the redline...and by then it is too late.

I would definately support minor AV damage buffs.....but dont want to because I am unfamiliar with the affects of such buffs on lighter frame vehicles like dropships.

A couple of things:
1. Infantry don't make a more concerted effort to destroy HAVs due to the fact that you're going to need multiple people to make the switch...which might not even be possible if there's no supply depot nearby.

2. Most of the time, one or two AV-infantry are little more than an annoyance to a tank. Without a tank of your own, your best hope is to scare the tank away and stay alive long enough to swap back into an infantry suit.

3. Equipping swarms/cannons/forges greatly hinder your ability to defend yourself; an SMG isn't going to do you any good against an enemy shredding you from fifty yards away.

4. Want to put up a fight versus tanks? Simple solution: give the flaylock pistol a bonus to vehicle damage (say 3 to 400 damage per shot, limit ammo to 3 or 4 shots per clip) and you'll find yourself debating whether or not you should approach that group of 5 infantry with your blaster tank.

Anecdotal evidence from my experience today, having just unlocked standard tanks:
I went into battle with a Maddy equipped (all militia, except for the standard Federation blaster) with one hardener and two heavy reps and two scanners. With my team having secured all of the nodes on the map, I came across a couple of enemy infantry that fled at the sight of me. My scanner picked up more infantry nearby and I found their spawn point; four or five infantry appeared with one of them using a forge gun. Some were throwing grenades at me...but in the end, I only had to concern myself with the forger as the other infantry could do almost nothing to me. For the record, I'm not good at tanking; yet, I had almost ZERO concern when faced by a group of enemy soldiers. In my opinion, that screams out the need for infantry to be given some sort of ability to defends themselves from tanks, as one tanker shouldn't be able to occupy 25-50% of the enemy team and still drive away.

" ..- -.- --. I wish I remembered morse code so I wasn't typing random letters" - Malleus Malificorum

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True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 8364	Posted - 2014.03.18 21:03:00 - [31] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: True Adamance wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: I hear you're doing it wrong. You need a full squad running proto AV with triple damage mods and prof 5, and then whatever vehicle you're shooting should have a 50% chance of surviving and a 25% chance of killing your entire squad. Was Judge the one who pointed out swarms are broken and not applying full damage? I dont see how any HAVer, myself included can argue they are OP, or balanced. Also I dont think anyone necessarily expects you to require a full squad of AVers to take down and HAV.....but I fail to understand why if HAV have such an impact on infantry ground game......infantry doesnt make a more concerted effort to destroy HAV? ANECDOTAL EVIDENCE ALERT: (Not to be taken as me making a statement of fact). I honestly dont see much AV in game. Not until our team is at the redline...and by then it is too late. I would definately support minor AV damage buffs.....but dont want to because I am unfamiliar with the affects of such buffs on lighter frame vehicles like dropships. If it were 1 tank vs 3 infantry game mode, but unfortunately you have to contend with infantry as well as the tanks. And? I AV, albeit infrequently, my modus operandi is not to place myself in a situation where I have to deal with enemy infantry. However thats a personal play style Equally so do I have to deal with not only the ire of enemy HAVers, but AVers, and any infantry that might carry AV grenades or remotes, or proxies...... lets not compare who is more paranoid and scared of what because as you know all us tankers are scrubs, cowards, lacking gun game mutha ******'s, community wrecking assholes, game ruining chumps, etc. " ..- -.- --. I wish I remembered morse code so I wasn't typing random letters" - Malleus Malificorum
ResistanceGTA D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 571	Posted - 2014.03.18 21:09:00 - [32] - Quote Vulpes Dolosus wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: I have some footage that will make your (if you are a swarmer) blood boil. It doesn't bother me anymore, I've accepted it. I don't have a single swarm fit anymore. I put a Breach MD on my AV fit, but I don't break it out enough to get proficient with it against vehicles. I just hide from them. Sigh I remember taking out a Sica with nothing but a few fluxes and a massdriver. Pfft. 'Noob' (jk) took one out with fluxes on a Dragonfly with a shotgun. Twas hilarious. xSivartx is my Heavy. There are many like him, but he is my own... So, other Logi's back off, those are my Warpoints!
DeadlyAztec11 Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 4692	Posted - 2014.03.18 21:15:00 - [33] - Quote I shot at a militia Soma with advanced swarms and shot at it as fast as possible until my ammo ran out (started with max ammo). The tank was AFK and by the time I ran out of ammo it had 75% of its armor left. -_- Taco Cat backwards is still Taco Cat
bamboo x Eternal Beings Proficiency V. 272	Posted - 2014.03.18 21:20:00 - [34] - Quote i want a community spotlight... bamboo x (Heavy Machine Gun) you bamboo x ('Toxin' Assault Rifle) you bamboo x (Charge Sniper Rifle) you
Everything Dies Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 593	Posted - 2014.03.18 21:44:00 - [35] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Also I dont think anyone necessarily expects you to require a full squad of AVers to take down and HAV.....but I fail to understand why if HAV have such an impact on infantry ground game......infantry doesnt make a more concerted effort to destroy HAV? ANECDOTAL EVIDENCE ALERT: (Not to be taken as me making a statement of fact). I honestly dont see much AV in game. Not until our team is at the redline...and by then it is too late. I would definately support minor AV damage buffs.....but dont want to because I am unfamiliar with the affects of such buffs on lighter frame vehicles like dropships. A couple of things: 1. Infantry don't make a more concerted effort to destroy HAVs due to the fact that you're going to need multiple people to make the switch...which might not even be possible if there's no supply depot nearby. 2. Most of the time, one or two AV-infantry are little more than an annoyance to a tank. Without a tank of your own, your best hope is to scare the tank away and stay alive long enough to swap back into an infantry suit. 3. Equipping swarms/cannons/forges greatly hinder your ability to defend yourself; an SMG isn't going to do you any good against an enemy shredding you from fifty yards away. 4. Want to put up a fight versus tanks? Simple solution: give the flaylock pistol a bonus to vehicle damage (say 3 to 400 damage per shot, limit ammo to 3 or 4 shots per clip) and you'll find yourself debating whether or not you should approach that group of 5 infantry with your blaster tank. Anecdotal evidence from my experience today, having just unlocked standard tanks: I went into battle with a Maddy equipped (all militia, except for the standard Federation blaster) with one hardener and two heavy reps and two scanners. With my team having secured all of the nodes on the map, I came across a couple of enemy infantry that fled at the sight of me. My scanner picked up more infantry nearby and I found their spawn point; four or five infantry appeared with one of them using a forge gun. Some were throwing grenades at me...but in the end, I only had to concern myself with the forger as the other infantry could do almost nothing to me. For the record, I'm not good at tanking; yet, I had almost ZERO concern when faced by a group of enemy soldiers. In my opinion, that screams out the need for infantry to be given some sort of ability to defends themselves from tanks, as one tanker shouldn't be able to occupy 25-50% of the enemy team and still drive away. "Trust and you'll be trusted," says the liar to the fool.
Vell0cet SVER True Blood General Tso's Alliance 1114	Posted - 2014.03.18 21:55:00 - [36] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Out of curiosity, Judge, what are your thoughts on plasma cannons? In need of a lot of help. At this moment I am not exactly sure what to do to them but they need lots of love. I am hoping to work with Gazabaran soon to see if we can get a push going to get CCP to sort them out. What if the projectile had adhesion like A/V grenades? The amount of adhesion would be based on the speed of the vehicle, so if you shoot at a stationary tank, you get 0 adhesion, but if you shoot at one moving at max speed, you just have to get it within 10-15 meters. Best PvE idea ever!
J0LLY R0G3R Imperfects Negative-Feedback 626	Posted - 2014.03.18 22:02:00 - [37] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: J0LLY R0G3R wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: Did you come to the conclusion that you would have been better off trying to kill a vehicle with a shotgun? You saying I can't shoot a dropship out of the air with my CRG? It's as effective as swarms, if you were able to jump off a tower and land a clean shot I'd say it would do more damage. Just making sure we are clear. XD XD Indeed, chase me friend XD
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 8369	Posted - 2014.03.18 22:25:00 - [38] - Quote Everything Dies wrote: True Adamance wrote: Also I dont think anyone necessarily expects you to require a full squad of AVers to take down and HAV.....but I fail to understand why if HAV have such an impact on infantry ground game......infantry doesnt make a more concerted effort to destroy HAV? ANECDOTAL EVIDENCE ALERT: (Not to be taken as me making a statement of fact). I honestly dont see much AV in game. Not until our team is at the redline...and by then it is too late. I would definately support minor AV damage buffs.....but dont want to because I am unfamiliar with the affects of such buffs on lighter frame vehicles like dropships. A couple of things: 1. Infantry don't make a more concerted effort to destroy HAVs due to the fact that you're going to need multiple people to make the switch...which might not even be possible if there's no supply depot nearby. 2. Most of the time, one or two AV-infantry are little more than an annoyance to a tank. Without a tank of your own, your best hope is to scare the tank away and stay alive long enough to swap back into an infantry suit. 3. Equipping swarms/cannons/forges greatly hinder your ability to defend yourself; an SMG isn't going to do you any good against an enemy shredding you from fifty yards away. 4. Want to put up a fight versus tanks? Simple solution: give the flaylock pistol a bonus to vehicle damage (say 3 to 400 damage per shot, limit ammo to 3 or 4 shots per clip) and you'll find yourself debating whether or not you should approach that group of 5 infantry with your blaster tank. Anecdotal evidence from my experience today, having just unlocked standard tanks: I went into battle with a Maddy equipped (all militia, except for the standard Federation blaster) with one hardener and two heavy reps and two scanners. With my team having secured all of the nodes on the map, I came across a couple of enemy infantry that fled at the sight of me. My scanner picked up more infantry nearby and I found their spawn point; four or five infantry appeared with one of them using a forge gun. Some were throwing grenades at me...but in the end, I only had to concern myself with the forger as the other infantry could do almost nothing to me. For the record, I'm not good at tanking; yet, I had almost ZERO concern when faced by a group of enemy soldiers. In my opinion, that screams out the need for infantry to be given some sort of ability to defends themselves from tanks, as one tanker shouldn't be able to occupy 25-50% of the enemy team and still drive away. In response. 1.) That in all honesty is no excuse. If a vehicle is pushing your team around a concerted effort is required to remove it from the field to allow our team more operational space. As a tanker myself I understand, yet the Over, powerful nature of HAV, and as such recognise the insanely potent threat they represent. As such my squad understand as well as I what must be done when a certain type of HAV enters the field and will make the required effort to counter that HAV, from Forge Gunning squads, to HAV designed to counter that, and in certain cases deployment of multiple AV forms as required. Sure we use co-ordination to achieve those goals, something a casual or solo player cannot, as such we are rewarded for our efforts where others are not. In the case of smaller MLT HAV even 2-3 or 3 Avers working the same tank down will force back and more often destroy that HAV. What most people refuse to understand or dislike to acknowledge is that those who invest into Madrugars and high tiered vehicle modules typically have a very strong understanding of their own fits and have invested the time to learn correct use of the modules and HAV who wont hesitate to make use of cover and cover to prevent their own destructions. 2-3.) Indeed two AVers firing randomly at range, especially with swarms since they have travel time, is just an annoyance, swarms to my knowledge are broken and do not deliver the full damage of each salvo. Forges however are a perfectly fine deterrent, the direct effect of landing a shot on an HAV will be an instant activation of hardeners and a shift from offensive to defensive posture in most intelligent HAVers. I however agree that something is required to be changed to make HAV more vulnerable, and AV more useful (however I dont think massive damage buffs are required to do this, instead changes HAV side are required such as hardener fitting requirement increase, duration decreases, and resistance decreases.) As for side arms, indeed I understand that gripe, AV is a dangerous balance between pissing off a powerful behemoth and making yourself vulnerable to infantry, however new longer range side arms should be of help to AVer units. 4.) No. Simply put I cannot and will not ever support arbitrary bonuses of certain weapons to certain types of enemy units that defy logic for simply gameplay features. E.G- It has been suggested rails and forges do less damage to medium armour dropships and more to heavily armoured HAV, this logically does not make sense, the penetrative and destructive power of an anti tank cannon is equally so against both tanks and helicopters, both with die. Disclaimer: I am not trying to blindly defend HAV, I do not wish to be labeled as a fanatic and argumentative crutch defender. I agree HAV are too powerful, I agree they need balance, I just disagree as to how that will be achieved. Also if you disagree or wish to debate my points you can catch me on skype, in game, or simply directly address that point in this thread. I will try to be able to respond soon. All I want is vehicle/AV balance and to stop those two factions bitching at one another. " ..- -.- --. I wish I remembered morse code so I wasn't typing random letters" - Malleus Malificorum
Zahle Undt Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 995	Posted - 2014.03.18 22:34:00 - [39] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: True Adamance wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: I hear you're doing it wrong. You need a full squad running proto AV with triple damage mods and prof 5, and then whatever vehicle you're shooting should have a 50% chance of surviving and a 25% chance of killing your entire squad. Was Judge the one who pointed out swarms are broken and not applying full damage? I dont see how any HAVer, myself included can argue they are OP, or balanced. Also I dont think anyone necessarily expects you to require a full squad of AVers to take down and HAV.....but I fail to understand why if HAV have such an impact on infantry ground game......infantry doesnt make a more concerted effort to destroy HAV? ANECDOTAL EVIDENCE ALERT: (Not to be taken as me making a statement of fact). I honestly dont see much AV in game. Not until our team is at the redline...and by then it is too late. I would definately support minor AV damage buffs.....but dont want to because I am unfamiliar with the affects of such buffs on lighter frame vehicles like dropships. If it were 1 tank vs 3 infantry game mode, but unfortunately you have to contend with infantry as well as the tanks. Amen man, every time a tanker brings up "it just takes teamwork to take down HAVs" I wonder if they assume that while a full squad is going after 1 or 2 tanks their own infantry is standing around having a smoke. Most tankers are like sand people. They frighten easily, but will quickly return...and in greater numbers.
bamboo x Eternal Beings Proficiency V. 274	Posted - 2014.03.18 22:52:00 - [40] - Quote to be blunt nothing is going to stop 6 tanks, even if they are militia tanks, unless you've got 3 or 4 dedicated forge gunners who are being supported by their squad to get dropshipped to a high point or to carve their way to a point on the battlefield that you can FG from i really am shocked that people QQ and scream "NO" when I suggest the limit of 6 tanks is not really a limit and it should be cut to 3 or 4 i don't really see how that is going to hurt anything. it will actually help because the maximum 6 vehicles means you could still call down your dropship or LAV and not get the "team quota" message because a bunch of ******* blueberries are in Sicas and Somas bamboo x (Heavy Machine Gun) you bamboo x ('Toxin' Assault Rifle) you bamboo x (Charge Sniper Rifle) you

Grimmiers 0uter.Heaven 452	Posted - 2014.03.18 22:59:00 - [41] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Out of curiosity, Judge, what are your thoughts on plasma cannons? In need of a lot of help. At this moment I am not exactly sure what to do to them but they need lots of love. I am hoping to work with Gazabaran soon to see if we can get a push going to get CCP to sort them out. They need to be launched faster in a straighter trajectory and decelerate and descend at the peak of their max distance. So It will still arch but you won't have to lead your shot on a tank that's 10 meters in front of you if it's moving. I also wonder how the conversation went about only adding 105 damage at prototype level while swarms get 220 per tier. SoundCloud Recruiter Link Pronounced Grim-e-urs
Ayures II Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 560	Posted - 2014.03.18 23:08:00 - [42] - Quote ITT people whining that their 40k dropsuit can't solo a 120k tank.
bamboo x Eternal Beings Proficiency V. 276	Posted - 2014.03.18 23:14:00 - [43] - Quote Ayures II wrote: ITT people whining that their 40k dropsuit can't solo a 120k tank. have you SEEN how much Wyrkomi AV nades cost? shut the **** up bamboo x (Heavy Machine Gun) you bamboo x ('Toxin' Assault Rifle) you bamboo x (Charge Sniper Rifle) you
ratamaq doc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 471	Posted - 2014.03.21 22:28:00 - [44] - Quote So is this video coming or what? Waiting for my blood to boil. YouTube
Judge Rhadamanthus Amarr Templar One 1692	Posted - 2014.03.21 23:03:00 - [45] - Quote ratamaq doc wrote: So is this video coming or what? Waiting for my blood to boil. ITs' been out for a day mate. Everything Dropship youtube channel my Community Spotlight
Jimmy McNaulty NECROM0NGERS Caps and Mercs 45	Posted - 2014.03.21 23:03:00 - [46] - Quote ratamaq doc wrote: So is this video coming or what? Waiting for my blood to boil. I think we have to wait... A watched pot never boils.. even if it's filled with blood
Judge Rhadamanthus Amarr Templar One 1695	Posted - 2014.03.21 23:21:00 - [47] - Quote Jimmy McNaulty wrote: ratamaq doc wrote: So is this video coming or what? Waiting for my blood to boil. I think we have to wait... A watched pot never boils.. even if it's filled with blood Dude. Its been out for a day now Everything Dropship youtube channel my Community Spotlight
Beeeees KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 467	Posted - 2014.03.21 23:27:00 - [48] - Quote As a workaround of sorts, use a forgegun on desired vehicle-¦s face as an opening. Thats enough to halt shield regen. Then hammer away with swarms. Will test out today and deliver my observations. TOLD514
OmegaKelevra DIOS EX. General Tso's Alliance 48	Posted - 2014.03.21 23:33:00 - [49] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: I hear you're doing it wrong. You need a full squad running proto AV with triple damage mods and prof 5, and then whatever vehicle you're shooting should have a 50% chance of surviving and a 25% chance of killing your entire squad. No, it's just that you aren't good enough. I heard this one guy say that he took out 15 Gunnlogis with militia swarms. It's just that you don't know how to do teamwork. I'm gonna have to throw the bullshit flag on this one in fact this is such a bullshit line you have earned the lying pole smokers award for creative learners lies. & you can bet your tall telling ass you got no proof i seen many militia tanks take swarm after swarm no sweat.. Sometimes I see some team member about to kick@ss so I shoot them dead & Then shoot them again Because I hate Zombies<_<
Patrlck 56 84	Posted - 2014.03.21 23:41:00 - [50] - Quote J0LLY R0G3R wrote: You saying I can't shoot a dropship out of the air with my CRG? Only a noob would get that close to somebody without the intention of squishing them.

Asha Starwind DUST University Ivy League 544	Posted - 2014.03.22 00:00:00 - [51] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: I have some footage that will make your (if you are a swarmer) blood boil. I'm pretty sure you'll be pressed to find one that will be bothered at this point. After saying countless times there is something wrong with swarms, and a told an equal number times "we're doing it wrong" or "we [need to/ don't want to] adapt." I've learned my lesson, and after rethinking standards have come to the conclusion that swarms are worthless, even when they are working as intended provide they provide 0 utility is scenarios not involving a vehicle. No other AV weapon is so completely limited. Mad Bomber Now with 50% less profile
ratamaq doc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 471	Posted - 2014.03.22 19:06:00 - [52] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: ratamaq doc wrote: So is this video coming or what? Waiting for my blood to boil. ITs' been out for a day mate. Sorry, for some reason it showed up in your channel on he web, but not on my mobile. Good stuff man thank you. YouTube
Jimmy McNaulty NECROM0NGERS Caps and Mercs 45	Posted - 2014.03.23 01:05:00 - [53] - Quote Just watched it and it was really well done. Nice work, Judge!
Omareth Nasadra The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 336	Posted - 2014.03.23 02:05:00 - [54] - Quote Ayures II wrote: ITT people whining that their 40k dropsuit can't solo a 120k tank. my proto AV suit cost 249k... just sayin Minmatar, In rust we trust!!! Omareth Nasadra/Erynyes


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