True Adamance
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Posted - 2014.03.18 20:26:00 -
[1] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:I hear you're doing it wrong.
You need a full squad running proto AV with triple damage mods and prof 5, and then whatever vehicle you're shooting should have a 50% chance of surviving and a 25% chance of killing your entire squad.
Was Judge the one who pointed out swarms are broken and not applying full damage?
I dont see how any HAVer, myself included can argue they are OP, or balanced.
Also I dont think anyone necessarily expects you to require a full squad of AVers to take down and HAV.....but I fail to understand why if HAV have such an impact on infantry ground game......infantry doesnt make a more concerted effort to destroy HAV?
ANECDOTAL EVIDENCE ALERT: (Not to be taken as me making a statement of fact). I honestly dont see much AV in game. Not until our team is at the redline...and by then it is too late.
I would definately support minor AV damage buffs.....but dont want to because I am unfamiliar with the affects of such buffs on lighter frame vehicles like dropships.
" ..- -.- --. I wish I remembered morse code so I wasn't typing random letters"
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True Adamance
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Posted - 2014.03.18 21:03:00 -
[2] - Quote
Thor Odinson42 wrote:True Adamance wrote:Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:I hear you're doing it wrong.
You need a full squad running proto AV with triple damage mods and prof 5, and then whatever vehicle you're shooting should have a 50% chance of surviving and a 25% chance of killing your entire squad. Was Judge the one who pointed out swarms are broken and not applying full damage? I dont see how any HAVer, myself included can argue they are OP, or balanced. Also I dont think anyone necessarily expects you to require a full squad of AVers to take down and HAV.....but I fail to understand why if HAV have such an impact on infantry ground game......infantry doesnt make a more concerted effort to destroy HAV? ANECDOTAL EVIDENCE ALERT: (Not to be taken as me making a statement of fact). I honestly dont see much AV in game. Not until our team is at the redline...and by then it is too late. I would definately support minor AV damage buffs.....but dont want to because I am unfamiliar with the affects of such buffs on lighter frame vehicles like dropships. If it were 1 tank vs 3 infantry game mode, but unfortunately you have to contend with infantry as well as the tanks.
And?
I AV, albeit infrequently, my modus operandi is not to place myself in a situation where I have to deal with enemy infantry. However thats a personal play style
Equally so do I have to deal with not only the ire of enemy HAVers, but AVers, and any infantry that might carry AV grenades or remotes, or proxies...... lets not compare who is more paranoid and scared of what because as you know all us tankers are scrubs, cowards, lacking gun game mutha ******'s, community wrecking assholes, game ruining chumps, etc.
" ..- -.- --. I wish I remembered morse code so I wasn't typing random letters"
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True Adamance
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Posted - 2014.03.18 22:25:00 -
[3] - Quote
Everything Dies wrote:True Adamance wrote:Also I dont think anyone necessarily expects you to require a full squad of AVers to take down and HAV.....but I fail to understand why if HAV have such an impact on infantry ground game......infantry doesnt make a more concerted effort to destroy HAV?
ANECDOTAL EVIDENCE ALERT: (Not to be taken as me making a statement of fact). I honestly dont see much AV in game. Not until our team is at the redline...and by then it is too late.
I would definately support minor AV damage buffs.....but dont want to because I am unfamiliar with the affects of such buffs on lighter frame vehicles like dropships. A couple of things: 1. Infantry don't make a more concerted effort to destroy HAVs due to the fact that you're going to need multiple people to make the switch...which might not even be possible if there's no supply depot nearby. 2. Most of the time, one or two AV-infantry are little more than an annoyance to a tank. Without a tank of your own, your best hope is to scare the tank away and stay alive long enough to swap back into an infantry suit. 3. Equipping swarms/cannons/forges greatly hinder your ability to defend yourself; an SMG isn't going to do you any good against an enemy shredding you from fifty yards away. 4. Want to put up a fight versus tanks? Simple solution: give the flaylock pistol a bonus to vehicle damage (say 3 to 400 damage per shot, limit ammo to 3 or 4 shots per clip) and you'll find yourself debating whether or not you should approach that group of 5 infantry with your blaster tank. Anecdotal evidence from my experience today, having just unlocked standard tanks: I went into battle with a Maddy equipped (all militia, except for the standard Federation blaster) with one hardener and two heavy reps and two scanners. With my team having secured all of the nodes on the map, I came across a couple of enemy infantry that fled at the sight of me. My scanner picked up more infantry nearby and I found their spawn point; four or five infantry appeared with one of them using a forge gun. Some were throwing grenades at me...but in the end, I only had to concern myself with the forger as the other infantry could do almost nothing to me. For the record, I'm not good at tanking; yet, I had almost ZERO concern when faced by a group of enemy soldiers. In my opinion, that screams out the need for infantry to be given some sort of ability to defends themselves from tanks, as one tanker shouldn't be able to occupy 25-50% of the enemy team and still drive away.
In response.
1.) That in all honesty is no excuse. If a vehicle is pushing your team around a concerted effort is required to remove it from the field to allow our team more operational space. As a tanker myself I understand, yet the Over, powerful nature of HAV, and as such recognise the insanely potent threat they represent. As such my squad understand as well as I what must be done when a certain type of HAV enters the field and will make the required effort to counter that HAV, from Forge Gunning squads, to HAV designed to counter that, and in certain cases deployment of multiple AV forms as required. Sure we use co-ordination to achieve those goals, something a casual or solo player cannot, as such we are rewarded for our efforts where others are not.
In the case of smaller MLT HAV even 2-3 or 3 Avers working the same tank down will force back and more often destroy that HAV. What most people refuse to understand or dislike to acknowledge is that those who invest into Madrugars and high tiered vehicle modules typically have a very strong understanding of their own fits and have invested the time to learn correct use of the modules and HAV who wont hesitate to make use of cover and cover to prevent their own destructions.
2-3.) Indeed two AVers firing randomly at range, especially with swarms since they have travel time, is just an annoyance, swarms to my knowledge are broken and do not deliver the full damage of each salvo. Forges however are a perfectly fine deterrent, the direct effect of landing a shot on an HAV will be an instant activation of hardeners and a shift from offensive to defensive posture in most intelligent HAVers. I however agree that something is required to be changed to make HAV more vulnerable, and AV more useful (however I dont think massive damage buffs are required to do this, instead changes HAV side are required such as hardener fitting requirement increase, duration decreases, and resistance decreases.)
As for side arms, indeed I understand that gripe, AV is a dangerous balance between pissing off a powerful behemoth and making yourself vulnerable to infantry, however new longer range side arms should be of help to AVer units.
4.) No. Simply put I cannot and will not ever support arbitrary bonuses of certain weapons to certain types of enemy units that defy logic for simply gameplay features.
E.G- It has been suggested rails and forges do less damage to medium armour dropships and more to heavily armoured HAV, this logically does not make sense, the penetrative and destructive power of an anti tank cannon is equally so against both tanks and helicopters, both with die.
Disclaimer: I am not trying to blindly defend HAV, I do not wish to be labeled as a fanatic and argumentative crutch defender. I agree HAV are too powerful, I agree they need balance, I just disagree as to how that will be achieved. Also if you disagree or wish to debate my points you can catch me on skype, in game, or simply directly address that point in this thread. I will try to be able to respond soon.
All I want is vehicle/AV balance and to stop those two factions bitching at one another.
" ..- -.- --. I wish I remembered morse code so I wasn't typing random letters"
- Malleus Malificorum
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