DUST Search - JLAVs Must Remain!

alten hilt wrote:

Supernus Gigas wrote:

Argetlam Thorson wrote:

The bit about you being redlined aside, if you don't want to worry about losing a 400000 ISK tank don't call it in. This is New Eden. To paraphrase the motto of EvE, don't drive what you can't afford to lose. At least with Jihad Jeeps, I take a death and (usually) a small monetary loss. When I have a RLRT take out my dropship in two hits, it costs them nothing and costs me 400K. Yes, I know "Don't fly what you can't afford to lose, Thorson." But when your rail tank is in the redline or on a hill watching my spawn and takes out my 400K at no cost to you, you better know that I have no qualms about Jihad Jeeping. Jus' sayin.

Where did I say that I was worried about losing them? I bought those expensive Gunnlogi fits for the sole purpose for fighting in Caldari FW, and I was more than prepared to lose them.

JLAVs are just a cheap, nearly skill-less tactic.

Militia tanks require 0 SP. A JLAV requires a logistics suit for multiple equipment, 460,200 SP. At least lvl 3 in demolitions for access to two types of RE's, 435,300 SP. For a total of 895,500 SP just to be a viable Jihadi. Sure you could try with 1 set of remotes, but the odds of success drops drastically.

As for skill, you are just valuing one set of skills (driving a tank) over another (driving a jeep). Your tank isn't laden with explosives that can blow up if they catch a stray bullet; you have way more ehp; won't blow up if you lightly clip a wall, terrain, or friendly vehicle ; and can apply damage at range. So what requires less skill?

And why do you insist that just because it costs a lot it should be invulnerable to less expensive things? This is New Eden, where cheap disposable frigates can destroy multi-billion isk battleships.

IMHO, the problem is blueprint LAV's. This reduces the isk investment significantly.

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alten hilt DUST University Ivy League 106	Posted - 2014.03.18 17:26:00 - [31] - Quote Supernus Gigas wrote: Argetlam Thorson wrote: The bit about you being redlined aside, if you don't want to worry about losing a 400000 ISK tank don't call it in. This is New Eden. To paraphrase the motto of EvE, don't drive what you can't afford to lose. At least with Jihad Jeeps, I take a death and (usually) a small monetary loss. When I have a RLRT take out my dropship in two hits, it costs them nothing and costs me 400K. Yes, I know "Don't fly what you can't afford to lose, Thorson." But when your rail tank is in the redline or on a hill watching my spawn and takes out my 400K at no cost to you, you better know that I have no qualms about Jihad Jeeping. Jus' sayin. Where did I say that I was worried about losing them? I bought those expensive Gunnlogi fits for the sole purpose for fighting in Caldari FW, and I was more than prepared to lose them. JLAVs are just a cheap, nearly skill-less tactic. Militia tanks require 0 SP. A JLAV requires a logistics suit for multiple equipment, 460,200 SP. At least lvl 3 in demolitions for access to two types of RE's, 435,300 SP. For a total of 895,500 SP just to be a viable Jihadi. Sure you could try with 1 set of remotes, but the odds of success drops drastically. As for skill, you are just valuing one set of skills (driving a tank) over another (driving a jeep). Your tank isn't laden with explosives that can blow up if they catch a stray bullet; you have way more ehp; won't blow up if you lightly clip a wall, terrain, or friendly vehicle ; and can apply damage at range. So what requires less skill? And why do you insist that just because it costs a lot it should be invulnerable to less expensive things? This is New Eden, where cheap disposable frigates can destroy multi-billion isk battleships. IMHO, the problem is blueprint LAV's. This reduces the isk investment significantly.
Asha Starwind DUST University Ivy League 522	Posted - 2014.03.18 17:45:00 - [32] - Quote alten hilt wrote: Supernus Gigas wrote: Argetlam Thorson wrote: The bit about you being redlined aside, if you don't want to worry about losing a 400000 ISK tank don't call it in. This is New Eden. To paraphrase the motto of EvE, don't drive what you can't afford to lose. At least with Jihad Jeeps, I take a death and (usually) a small monetary loss. When I have a RLRT take out my dropship in two hits, it costs them nothing and costs me 400K. Yes, I know "Don't fly what you can't afford to lose, Thorson." But when your rail tank is in the redline or on a hill watching my spawn and takes out my 400K at no cost to you, you better know that I have no qualms about Jihad Jeeping. Jus' sayin. Where did I say that I was worried about losing them? I bought those expensive Gunnlogi fits for the sole purpose for fighting in Caldari FW, and I was more than prepared to lose them. JLAVs are just a cheap, nearly skill-less tactic. Militia tanks require 0 SP. A JLAV requires a logistics suit for multiple equipment, 460,200 SP. At least lvl 3 in demolitions for access to two types of RE's, 435,300 SP. For a total of 895,500 SP just to be a viable Jihadi. Sure you could try with 1 set of remotes, but the odds of success drops drastically. As for skill, you are just valuing one set of skills (driving a tank) over another (driving a jeep). Your tank isn't laden with explosives that can blow up if they catch a stray bullet; you have way more ehp; won't blow up if you lightly clip a wall, terrain, or friendly vehicle ; and can apply damage at range. So what requires less skill? And why do you insist that just because it costs a lot it should be invulnerable to less expensive things? This is New Eden, where cheap disposable frigates can destroy multi-billion isk battleships. IMHO, the problem is blueprint LAV's. This reduces the isk investment significantly. Those requirements you listed for jihading are all luxuries, you need exactly 0sp for the bare minimum. A 0SP logi can be provided from any faction LP store of your choice. At Matari Outfitters, you can grab the Republic brand REs for 0SP, and the Republic F/45 at Demoltions I and at the ISK market the no-name brand REs. That's a logi suit and 3 sets of REs and only requires the SP investment of whatever it takes to get Demo I. Mad Bomber Now with 50% less profile
OliX PRZESMIEWCA Bezimienni... 56	Posted - 2014.03.18 18:37:00 - [33] - Quote Tankers adapt. Ask somebody for help, ask somebody to watch your back. Remotes need to stay sticky end of story. Amarr Ackbar !!!
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 5852	Posted - 2014.03.18 18:38:00 - [34] - Quote OliX PRZESMIEWCA wrote: Tankers adapt. Threadnaughts through entire forums Reads Threads under Favorites Laughs so hard Leaves AV > HAV > INF > AV \| Not: HAV > AV GëÑ INF [s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through -HAND
alten hilt DUST University Ivy League 107	Posted - 2014.03.18 18:47:00 - [35] - Quote Asha Starwind wrote: Those requirements you listed for jihading are all luxuries, you need exactly 0sp for the bare minimum. A 0SP logi can be provided from any faction LP store of your choice. At Matari Outfitters, you can grab the Republic brand REs for 0SP, and the Republic F/45 at Demoltions I and at the ISK market the no-name brand REs. That's a logi suit and 3 sets of REs and only requires the SP investment of whatever it takes to get Demo I. This is still 286,060 more SP than it takes to use a militia HAV.
SGT NOVA STAR Ahrendee Mercenaries 223	Posted - 2014.03.18 18:55:00 - [36] - Quote LMAO i love how the tankers pissed off the ground guys THIS much lol. instead of killing them with their tank, they pissed them off so much that their killing themselves! they dont realise their not succeeding, 10 kills for tank, jLAVS kills himself and tank, (suicide pilot is probably already negative) tank driver calls in another tank and gets more kills so 15-1 for tanker, 1-4 for suicide pilot. jeep blows up tank again, by the end of the match the tanker is 22-2 while you suicide pilots are 2-8 lol. you really think your doing ANYTHING? ok then. you guys are cute VAYU! I CHOOSE YOU!
OliX PRZESMIEWCA Bezimienni... 56	Posted - 2014.03.18 19:18:00 - [37] - Quote Atiim wrote: OliX PRZESMIEWCA wrote: Tankers adapt. Threadnaughts through entire forums Reads Threads under Favorites Laughs so hard Leaves Something wrong?
CELESTA AUNGM Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 127	Posted - 2014.03.18 19:22:00 - [38] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Ive used jihad I stick enough remotes on it to blow every single tank i come across It doesnt take skill or timing, i can hit when hardeners are on and kill it fine Whack on enough remotes and its dead If your in the tank radar generally doesnt help anyways, scanner can and so can your crew/squad I find it easy to do and skillless, bit like pre 1.7 swarms/av nades All the posts here are thought-provoking, but I think you're post Takahiro leads to the heart of what CCP may be thinking about, and caring about, the most. Umm, there IS an important social issue inside the JLAV, in that the "J" represents using racial/religious or realworld theme as a slant to be tossed around lightly. Usually when people toss a word around lightly out of its context, it's assumed by other who are close to that subject to be a hurtful sign of callousness and contempt (...and we have to face it, that's one assumption that tends to be right---we are being uncaring and that hurts). I never saw the need to link remote toys on a make-believe car in a video game about non-earthly humaniods, and link it to a tedious human problem, in our soemtimes drag-down real world. ...We could have and SHOULD HAVE just called it what it is: an Improvised Explosive Vehicle, or Improvised Detonation Vehicle (and if the first person who came up with J-jeep had used an ounce of Cool, he would have called it the better names.) ....But I suspect CCP's driving interest is, that every device or weapon they introduce in Dust be used for the purpose of countering or balancing an RELATIVELY EQUAL opponent in the match. (Yikes, what did she just say?? Wha--??) Let me try to suggest it better. CCP allows and loves to see a certain amount of improvising from players (use a DS or LAV to catapult to unreachable ledges, road-killing with vehicles, etc). But they hope to see a high-investment, high-grind-to-earn vehicle defeated by one of the tools that take extra-skill-level or extra sacrafice in SP or fight-time to bring against that vehicle. In the future, "improvising two standard breach bolt pistols with three malitia damage mods to kill a Prototype Minmatar LAV" will be frowned on by CCP as a failure of the game design.... ...Today using five REs on a malitia taxi to incinerate a Proto, Skill-bonused, HAV is worth a frown too. I agree with you, it's a GREAT improvisation, and a valid, fun combat tool (though I'll make sure you have trouble tryin' to ram my Grimsnes!) But I also agree with any changes CCP considers making in the name of curbing political issues, or keeping their battle tools operating within reasonable skill-required-for-success ratios, OR both, if that's their reason.
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 12301	Posted - 2014.03.18 19:24:00 - [39] - Quote Operative 1171 Aajli wrote: Do we want this game to be a proper, stand up combat game or a third world, **** terrorist game? Might as well just change the name to Bin Laden 514 and change the theme to Talaban tribal warfare. No need for the New Eden sci-fi link. Let's go ahead and lose the guns too. Just strap REs on and kill NPC civilians to secure districts. I love it! Because Immortals would be against using suicide tactics. Please, go on. ::sips coffee:: Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 5852	Posted - 2014.03.18 19:25:00 - [40] - Quote OliX PRZESMIEWCA wrote: Atiim wrote: OliX PRZESMIEWCA wrote: Tankers adapt. Threadnaughts through entire forums Reads Threads under Favorites Laughs so hard Leaves Something wrong? No. It's just that tankers are well known for crying about any and every item that kills them until it's nerfed into the ground; as well as QQing more than the Scout, Heavy, Sniper, AV, Logi, and Assault community combined. It's rather funny. AV > HAV > INF > AV \| Not: HAV > AV GëÑ INF [s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through -HAND



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