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Tweaksz NECROM0NGERS 25	Posted - 2014.03.17 07:16:00 - [1] - Quote Mainly on the AR variants. Your thoughts? Raptor Squad
Tweaksz NECROM0NGERS 25	Posted - 2014.03.17 07:17:00 - [2] - Quote Thoughts on the indirect AV nerf also. Raptor Squad
Kasote Denzara A Vulture 1919	Posted - 2014.03.17 07:18:00 - [3] - Quote Unnecessary? They've been needed for quite some time now. It's good it's happening. The only real headscratcher one is for the SMG. (lol, like really?) "Go ahead and dual tank. My Commando dual ganks." -Kasote Denzara I'm waiting for my G-I suit. It's what I want.
Tweaksz NECROM0NGERS 28	Posted - 2014.03.17 07:22:00 - [4] - Quote Kasote Denzara wrote: Unnecessary? They've been needed for quite some time now. It's good it's happening. The only real headscratcher one is for the SMG. (lol, like really?) All other rifle variants have their decent side, now an AR variant for example let's say the CreoDron AR is going to have a slower rate of fire, shorter range, less damage, about same hip spread. The idea for cqc weapons is for them to have higher dps than longer range weapons, but CCP has made it clear you must abandon all necessary game design logic. Edit: I do agree on the SMG though in retrospect it is the same problem as the CreoDron AR- Kaalakiota RR. AR variants 1.8 - RIP
Nosid Katona HavoK Core RISE of LEGION 126	Posted - 2014.03.17 07:22:00 - [5] - Quote Kasote Denzara wrote: Unnecessary? They've been needed for quite some time now. It's good it's happening. The only real headscratcher one is for the SMG. (lol, like really?) I think you've misunderstood what the OP was referring to. He meant the 'Blaster Rifle' variants like the TAC, Burst, and Breach. Not the racial ones like Rail, Combat, and Scrambler Rifles. Vae Victis Valor Vet, R.I.P MAG
Kaughst Nyain San Renegade Alliance 312	Posted - 2014.03.17 07:32:00 - [6] - Quote The thing is, there are no variants i.e Tactical Rail Rifle or Breach Scrambler Rifle to compare the AR variants to, while announced they would fall in line with appropriate ranges, damages and shortcomings. Arguably if you adjust the AR variant damage/range ect you mess with the logical place the future variants will have....once we do have all the variants I think that it would be easier to make radical stat changes to suit all of them more appropriately especially once they are placed in the hands of the players, much like they did with range changes on the rifles. "That is not how you say my name." "How do you say your name?" "I don't know but that is not how you say it."
Tweaksz NECROM0NGERS 29	Posted - 2014.03.17 07:39:00 - [7] - Quote Kaughst wrote: The thing is, there are no variants i.e Tactical Rail Rifle or Breach Scrambler Rifle to compare the AR variants to, while announced they would fall in line with appropriate ranges, damages and shortcomings. Arguably if you adjust the AR variant damage/range ect you mess with the logical place the future variants will have....once we do have all the variants I think that it would be easier to make radical stat changes to suit all of them more appropriately especially once they are placed in the hands of the players, much like they did with range changes on the rifles. I get what you mean though when you think about it variants are just one race's attempt to mimic another racial rifle. In that way I understand there could be underperformance. What troubles me is the incredible amount of obsoletion thanks to poor decision on the nerf . They could have kept the nerf but increased RoF (Edit: RoF increase would entail a matching the RR's RoF or a slightly lower RoF), this is cqc we're talking about. AR variants 1.8 - RIP
Kasote Denzara A Vulture 1919	Posted - 2014.03.17 07:44:00 - [8] - Quote - "Go ahead and dual tank. My Commando dual ganks." -Kasote Denzara I'm waiting for my G-I suit. It's what I want.
Tweaksz NECROM0NGERS 29	Posted - 2014.03.17 07:47:00 - [9] - Quote Kasote Denzara wrote: Tweaksz wrote: All other rifle variants have their decent side, now an AR variant for example let's say the CreoDron AR is going to have a slower rate of fire, shorter range, less damage, about same hip spread. The idea for cqc weapons is for them to have higher dps than longer range weapons, but CCP has made it clear you must abandon all necessary game design logic. Edit: I do agree on the SMG though in retrospect it is the same problem as the CreoDron AR- Kaalakiota RR. They are getting damage reductions. That's it. Also, long range weapons can have higher DPS than rifles. It's actually pretty common. They could have kept the nerf but increased RoF (Edit: RoF increase would entail a matching the RR's RoF or a slightly lower RoF), this is cqc we're talking about. AR variants 1.8 - RIP
Kasote Denzara A Vulture 1919	Posted - 2014.03.17 07:54:00 - [10] - Quote Tweaksz wrote: They could have kept the nerf but increased RoF (Edit: RoF increase would entail a matching the RR's RoF or a slightly lower RoF), this is cqc we're talking about. I'll use hypothetical numbers that I squatted down and purged from my buttocks: Say a gun does 100 damage in ten seconds. That is ten damage per second. This gun can only shoot once per second. That means each bullet does ten damage. Let's cut the damage down to five damage per second. That is 50 damage in ten seconds. The gun can still only shoot once per second. Now let's increase the rate of fire to two shots per second. That is ten damage per second once again, regardless of the damage decrease. This last product has the same DPS, despite each bullet no longer doing ten damage per bullet. Rate of fire increase or decreases are just another way to change DPS. The current issue with all the rifles are that they do too much damage in too short of a time for a considerable TTK. Added: Though the Plasma Rifle's various variants are just, well, copies of the other races' own rifles, they shouldn't be expected to outperform Gallente's design. They are, after all, imitations. They are, yes, underwhelming, but that is more or less an acceptable outcome of what they are. I do remember the days where the TAC underwent what is going on with the Scrambler Rifles right now. "Go ahead and dual tank. My Commando dual ganks." -Kasote Denzara I'm waiting for my G-I suit. It's what I want.

Kaughst Nyain San Renegade Alliance 312	Posted - 2014.03.17 07:57:00 - [11] - Quote Tweaksz wrote: Kaughst wrote: The thing is, there are no variants i.e Tactical Rail Rifle or Breach Scrambler Rifle to compare the AR variants to, while announced they would fall in line with appropriate ranges, damages and shortcomings. Arguably if you adjust the AR variant damage/range ect you mess with the logical place the future variants will have....once we do have all the variants I think that it would be easier to make radical stat changes to suit all of them more appropriately especially once they are placed in the hands of the players, much like they did with range changes on the rifles. I get what you mean though when you think about it variants are just one race's attempt to mimic another racial rifle. In that way I understand there could be underperformance. What troubles me is the incredible amount of obsoletion thanks to poor decision on the nerf . They could have kept the nerf but increased RoF (Edit: RoF increase would entail a matching the RR's RoF or a slightly lower RoF), this is cqc we're talking about. To reiterate, that is not to say those stats wont be change to increase relevancy as regardless of the rifle it should still have its place. What you may not expect is that should one variant be change, say the Tac AR, I.E a increase in damage, the RR may have to increase it's damage up from the Tac Combat rifle to the Tac Scrambler ending in a number of other possible problems. I am sure it's a complicated mathematical thing and eve concept that will be debated and nailed down with CCP's endless tweaking but it's hard to grasp from the community view point with the weapons we have and little variance that is available. Essentially we need to wait awhile until everything is in place to comment on what needs to be balanced. "That is not how you say my name." "How do you say your name?" "I don't know but that is not how you say it."
Tweaksz NECROM0NGERS 29	Posted - 2014.03.17 07:58:00 - [12] - Quote Kasote Denzara wrote: Tweaksz wrote: They could have kept the nerf but increased RoF (Edit: RoF increase would entail a matching the RR's RoF or a slightly lower RoF), this is cqc we're talking about. I'll use hypothetical numbers that I squatted down and purged from my buttocks: Say a gun does 100 damage in ten seconds. That is ten damage per second. This gun can only shoot once per second. That means each bullet does ten damage. Let's cut the damage down to five damage per second. That is 50 damage in ten seconds. The gun can still only shoot once per second. Now let's increase the rate of fire to two shots per second. That is ten damage per second once again, regardless of the damage decrease. This last product has the same DPS, despite each bullet no longer doing ten damage per bullet. Rate of fire increase or decreases are just another way to change DPS. The current issue with all the rifles are that they do too much damage in too short of a time for a considerable TTK. What i'm getting at is that, yes RoF does count as a DPS increase, though if we factor in range( which in TANK 514 plays a major role) said AR variant would still be inferior in certain aspects to the original racial rifle. AR variants 1.8 - RIP
Kasote Denzara A Vulture 1919	Posted - 2014.03.17 08:01:00 - [13] - Quote Tweaksz wrote: What i'm getting at is that, yes RoF does count as a DPS increase, though if we factor in range( which in TANK 514 plays a major role) said AR variant would still be inferior in certain aspects to the original racial rifle. Though the Plasma Rifle's various variants are just, well, copies of the other races' own rifles, they shouldn't be expected to outperform Gallente's design. They are, after all, imitations. They are, yes, underwhelming, but that is more or less an acceptable outcome of what they are. I do remember the days where the TAC underwent what is going on with the Scrambler Rifles right now. Tactical was the Scrambler Rifle, Breach was the Rail Rifle, Burst was the Combat Rifle. That's all they are. Imitations. In a sense, we've had all the racial rifles for a while- they were just poorly made by Gallenteans. "Go ahead and dual tank. My Commando dual ganks." -Kasote Denzara I'm waiting for my G-I suit. It's what I want.
Tweaksz NECROM0NGERS 29	Posted - 2014.03.17 08:05:00 - [14] - Quote Kaughst wrote: Tweaksz wrote: Kaughst wrote: The thing is, there are no variants i.e Tactical Rail Rifle or Breach Scrambler Rifle to compare the AR variants to, while announced they would fall in line with appropriate ranges, damages and shortcomings. Arguably if you adjust the AR variant damage/range ect you mess with the logical place the future variants will have....once we do have all the variants I think that it would be easier to make radical stat changes to suit all of them more appropriately especially once they are placed in the hands of the players, much like they did with range changes on the rifles. I get what you mean though when you think about it variants are just one race's attempt to mimic another racial rifle. In that way I understand there could be underperformance. What troubles me is the incredible amount of obsoletion thanks to poor decision on the nerf . They could have kept the nerf but increased RoF (Edit: RoF increase would entail a matching the RR's RoF or a slightly lower RoF), this is cqc we're talking about. To reiterate, that is not to say those stats wont be change to increase relevancy as regardless of the rifle it should still have its place. What you may not expect is that should one variant be change, say the Tac AR, I.E a increase in damage, the RR may have to increase it's damage up from the Tac Combat rifle to the Tac Scrambler ending in a number of other possible problems. I am sure it's a complicated mathematical thing and eve concept that will be debated and nailed down with CCP's endless tweaking but it's hard to grasp from the community view point with the weapons we have and little variance that is available. Essentially we need to wait awhile until everything is in place to comment on what needs to be balanced. Mebe try a simpler way as like I said variants are simply one race's attempt at mimicry: Tac AR- ScR Breach AR- RR Burst AR- CR ACR-AR AScR- AR but then again I agree that endless mindnumbing calculation must be made, and apparently CCP which i'm trying to believe in doesn't test their stuff enough for it to be ready. I wouldn't mind waiting more time if things could just be properly adjusted. AR variants 1.8 - RIP
Nosid Katona HavoK Core RISE of LEGION 126	Posted - 2014.03.17 08:07:00 - [15] - Quote Kasote Denzara wrote: Tweaksz wrote: What i'm getting at is that, yes RoF does count as a DPS increase, though if we factor in range( which in TANK 514 plays a major role) said AR variant would still be inferior in certain aspects to the original racial rifle. Though the Plasma Rifle's various variants are just, well, copies of the other races' own rifles, they shouldn't be expected to outperform Gallente's design. They are, after all, imitations. They are, yes, underwhelming, but that is more or less an acceptable outcome of what they are. I do remember the days where the TAC underwent what is going on with the Scrambler Rifles right now. Tactical was the Scrambler Rifle, Breach was the Rail Rifle, Burst was the Combat Rifle. That's all they are. Imitations. In a sense, we've had all the racial rifles for a while- they were just poorly made by Gallenteans. So by your logic the other racial "Assault" variants should be just as 'underwhelming' compared to the AR as the AR variants are to them? How many times will I post this before this "they are cheap copies" argument dies. Vae Victis Valor Vet, R.I.P MAG
Tweaksz NECROM0NGERS 29	Posted - 2014.03.17 08:08:00 - [16] - Quote Kasote Denzara wrote: Tweaksz wrote: What i'm getting at is that, yes RoF does count as a DPS increase, though if we factor in range( which in TANK 514 plays a major role) said AR variant would still be inferior in certain aspects to the original racial rifle. Though the Plasma Rifle's various variants are just, well, copies of the other races' own rifles, they shouldn't be expected to outperform Gallente's design. They are, after all, imitations. They are, yes, underwhelming, but that is more or less an acceptable outcome of what they are. I do remember the days where the TAC underwent what is going on with the Scrambler Rifles right now. Tactical was the Scrambler Rifle, Breach was the Rail Rifle, Burst was the Combat Rifle. That's all they are. Imitations. In a sense, we've had all the racial rifles for a while- they were just poorly made by Gallenteans. I understand that but for the sake of bonuses let's say the upcoming commando and assault bonus these weapons are just too irrelevant to even try using. I would prefer for variants to be removed then released when they are all ready. AR variants 1.8 - RIP
Tweaksz NECROM0NGERS 29	Posted - 2014.03.17 08:10:00 - [17] - Quote Nosid Katona wrote: Kasote Denzara wrote: Tweaksz wrote: What i'm getting at is that, yes RoF does count as a DPS increase, though if we factor in range( which in TANK 514 plays a major role) said AR variant would still be inferior in certain aspects to the original racial rifle. Though the Plasma Rifle's various variants are just, well, copies of the other races' own rifles, they shouldn't be expected to outperform Gallente's design. They are, after all, imitations. They are, yes, underwhelming, but that is more or less an acceptable outcome of what they are. I do remember the days where the TAC underwent what is going on with the Scrambler Rifles right now. Tactical was the Scrambler Rifle, Breach was the Rail Rifle, Burst was the Combat Rifle. That's all they are. Imitations. In a sense, we've had all the racial rifles for a while- they were just poorly made by Gallenteans. So by your logic the other racial "Assault" variants should be just as 'underwhelming' compared to the AR as the AR variants are to them? How many times will I post this before this "they are cheap copies" argument dies. I never once said the other assault variants should be just as underwhelming, atm all assault variants on other rifles seem to be just fine. IMHO of course. Edit: I never once mentioned cheap copies the other assault variants while still being competent and effective, to a certain extent they don't outperform the AR at cqc. AR variants 1.8 - RIP
8213 BIG BAD W0LVES Canis Eliminatus Operatives 1780	Posted - 2014.03.17 08:16:00 - [18] - Quote AV needs it's own limb on the skill tree. PLCs, Swarms, and FGs should get there own set of damage mods and specific skills. I like the nerfs, but until we actually play with te new weapons with the new suits, only time will tell. I expect to see 50 different threads complaining about the same thing on the forums within 24 hours. I also expect to see Nyain San figuring out and exploiting the next FoTM within 1 hour. I ain't got time for dat sh!t
Nosid Katona HavoK Core RISE of LEGION 126	Posted - 2014.03.17 08:25:00 - [19] - Quote Tweaksz wrote: Nosid Katona wrote: Kasote Denzara wrote: Tweaksz wrote: What i'm getting at is that, yes RoF does count as a DPS increase, though if we factor in range( which in TANK 514 plays a major role) said AR variant would still be inferior in certain aspects to the original racial rifle. Though the Plasma Rifle's various variants are just, well, copies of the other races' own rifles, they shouldn't be expected to outperform Gallente's design. They are, after all, imitations. They are, yes, underwhelming, but that is more or less an acceptable outcome of what they are. I do remember the days where the TAC underwent what is going on with the Scrambler Rifles right now. Tactical was the Scrambler Rifle, Breach was the Rail Rifle, Burst was the Combat Rifle. That's all they are. Imitations. In a sense, we've had all the racial rifles for a while- they were just poorly made by Gallenteans. So by your logic the other racial "Assault" variants should be just as 'underwhelming' compared to the AR as the AR variants are to them? How many times will I post this before this "they are cheap copies" argument dies. I never once said the other assault variants should be just as underwhelming, atm all assault variants on other rifles seem to be just fine. IMHO of course. Edit: I never once mentioned cheap copies the other assault variants while still being competent and effective, to a certain extent they don't outperform the AR at cqc. I was more referring to Kasote however on the subject of the 'Assault' variants I feel it is necessary to mention they are not fine. Take the Assault Comat Rifle for example. The ACB out ranges, has better DPS, and a better damage profile then the AR. While some MIT argue the AR has more potential damage per clip if one can't get close enough to apply said damage OR dies before even half of it leaves the gin it remains a moot point. Vae Victis Valor Vet, R.I.P MAG
Tweaksz NECROM0NGERS 29	Posted - 2014.03.17 08:34:00 - [20] - Quote Nosid Katona wrote: Tweaksz wrote: Nosid Katona wrote: Kasote Denzara wrote: Tweaksz wrote: What i'm getting at is that, yes RoF does count as a DPS increase, though if we factor in range( which in TANK 514 plays a major role) said AR variant would still be inferior in certain aspects to the original racial rifle. Though the Plasma Rifle's various variants are just, well, copies of the other races' own rifles, they shouldn't be expected to outperform Gallente's design. They are, after all, imitations. They are, yes, underwhelming, but that is more or less an acceptable outcome of what they are. I do remember the days where the TAC underwent what is going on with the Scrambler Rifles right now. Tactical was the Scrambler Rifle, Breach was the Rail Rifle, Burst was the Combat Rifle. That's all they are. Imitations. In a sense, we've had all the racial rifles for a while- they were just poorly made by Gallenteans. So by your logic the other racial "Assault" variants should be just as 'underwhelming' compared to the AR as the AR variants are to them? How many times will I post this before this "they are cheap copies" argument dies. I never once said the other assault variants should be just as underwhelming, atm all assault variants on other rifles seem to be just fine. IMHO of course. Edit: I never once mentioned cheap copies the other assault variants while still being competent and effective, to a certain extent they don't outperform the AR at cqc. I was more referring to Kasote however on the subject of the 'Assault' variants I feel it is necessary to mention they are not fine. Take the Assault Comat Rifle for example. The ACB out ranges, has better DPS, and a better damage profile then the AR. While some might argue the AR has more potential damage per clip if one can't get close enough to apply said damage OR dies before even half of it leaves the gun it remains a moot point. True. True. All the more reason to consider what is going on with the AR nerf in the New Eden "arms race" so to say. AR variants 1.8 - RIP

Daddrobit PFB Pink Fluffy Bunnies 594	Posted - 2014.03.17 08:37:00 - [21] - Quote Find more on the topic Here Here And Here
Alena Ventrallis The Neutral Zone 847	Posted - 2014.03.17 08:41:00 - [22] - Quote The ARs should have the highest DPS but the lowest range. So the breach AR should outDPS the rail rifle, but have lower range. The ACR should outrange the AR, but not outDPS it. Balance should be based on this idea. Best PVE idea I've seen.
Kasote Denzara A Vulture 1921	Posted - 2014.03.17 08:42:00 - [23] - Quote Nosid Katona wrote: So by your logic the other racial "Assault" variants should be just as 'underwhelming' compared to the AR as the AR variants are to them? How many times will I post this before this "they are cheap copies" argument dies. They are underwhelming. At least for the ones we have now. The Assault variant of the Scrambler Rifle is, well, laughable compared to their "normal" Scrambler Rifle, just as the Combat Rifle's "normal" variant is more efficient at the intended range. In a close up, "I can hug you" fight? The ACR will have the stronger edge over the CR, but why is the CR user even getting that close? The same applies to the Scrambler Rifle and Rail Rifle. If you didn't know, the Assault variants are the attempts to imitate Gallente's Plasma Rifle. Gallente is currently the only one that has one imitation variant of the other three races' rifles. Amarr lack burst and breach, Caldari lack tactical and burst, Minmatar lacks breach and tactical (in the current names of the Plasma Rifle variants). "Go ahead and dual tank. My Commando dual ganks." -Kasote Denzara I'm waiting for my G-I suit. It's what I want.
Nosid Katona HavoK Core RISE of LEGION 127	Posted - 2014.03.17 08:46:00 - [24] - Quote Kasote Denzara wrote: Nosid Katona wrote: So by your logic the other racial "Assault" variants should be just as 'underwhelming' compared to the AR as the AR variants are to them? How many times will I post this before this "they are cheap copies" argument dies. They are underwhelming. At least for the ones we have now. The Assault variant of the Scrambler Rifle is, well, laughable compared to their "normal" Scrambler Rifle, just as the Combat Rifle's "normal" variant is more efficient at the intended range. In a close up, "I can hug you" fight? The ACR will have the stronger edge over the CR, but why is the CR user even getting that close? The same applies to the Scrambler Rifle and Rail Rifle. If you didn't know, the Assault variants are the attempts to imitate Gallente's Plasma Rifle. Gallente is currently the only one that has one imitation variant of the other three races' rifles. Amarr lack burst and breach, Caldari lack tactical and burst, Minmatar lacks breach and tactical (in the current names of the Plasma Rifle variants). Underwhelming compared to the normal form perhaps, compared to the AR which they are imitating? Not at all. Just because the Scrambler, Rail, and Combat rifles all outperform their Assault variant doesn't change the fact that the assault variants are very close to if not better then the AR performance wise. While on the other side the AR variants not only are out performed by the AR but they are out performed by a HUGE margin by the rifles they are imitating. Vae Victis Valor Vet, R.I.P MAG
Kasote Denzara A Vulture 1921	Posted - 2014.03.17 09:00:00 - [25] - Quote Nosid Katona wrote: Underwhelming compared to the normal form perhaps, compared to the AR which they are imitating? Not at all. Just because the Scrambler, Rail, and Combat rifles all outperform their Assault variant doesn't change the fact that the assault variants are very close to if not better then the AR performance wise. While on the other side the AR variants not only are out performed by the AR but they are out performed by a HUGE margin by the rifles they are imitating. From highest damage reduction coming in 1.8: RR, SCR, CR, AR, SMG (which is still weird). Each and every variant of these listed weapons are having their damage reduced. For now, you can say anything you want about the CR's, RR's, and (possibly?) ScR Assault variant outpreforming the Plasma Rifle- I promise you that it's going to change in 1.8. All we are really doing right now, you and I, are pissing back and forth about things that are going to be changed, though I'm extremely sure the CR, SCR, and RR are going to lose a bit of popularity when they no longer do nearly twice the damage of the Plasma Rifle, if not more than that. I'm extremely positive, that against a shield tanker, the Plasma Rifle will devastate better (faster) than the Assault Combat Rifle can against an equally healthed armor tanker in 1.8. The problem right now with CR and RR is that they are armor killers with far too much damage being dealt to even be slowed down by shields. In 1.7, CR and RR are superior to every other rifle. In 1.8? We'll see. Am I saying the Plasma Rifle variants will find use in 1.8? No, I'm not. I really can't. People will use pretty much whatever they want to use. "Go ahead and dual tank. My Commando dual ganks." -Kasote Denzara I'm waiting for my G-I suit. It's what I want.
Nosid Katona HavoK Core RISE of LEGION 128	Posted - 2014.03.17 09:04:00 - [26] - Quote Kasote Denzara wrote: Nosid Katona wrote: Underwhelming compared to the normal form perhaps, compared to the AR which they are imitating? Not at all. Just because the Scrambler, Rail, and Combat rifles all outperform their Assault variant doesn't change the fact that the assault variants are very close to if not better then the AR performance wise. While on the other side the AR variants not only are out performed by the AR but they are out performed by a HUGE margin by the rifles they are imitating. From highest damage reduction coming in 1.8: RR, SCR, CR, AR, SMG (which is still weird). Each and every variant of these listed weapons are having their damage reduced. For now, you can say anything you want about the CR's, RR's, and (possibly?) ScR Assault variant outpreforming the Plasma Rifle- I promise you that it's going to change in 1.8. All we are really doing right now, you and I, are pissing back and forth about things that are going to be changed, though I'm extremely sure the CR, SCR, and RR are going to lose a bit of popularity when they no longer do nearly twice the damage of the Plasma Rifle, if not more than that. I'm extremely positive, that against a shield tanker, the Plasma Rifle will devastate better (faster) than the Assault Combat Rifle can against an equally healthed armor tanker in 1.8. The problem right now with CR and RR is that they are armor killers with far too much damage being dealt to even be slowed down by shields. In 1.7, CR and RR are superior to every other rifle. In 1.8? We'll see. Am I saying the Plasma Rifle variants will find use in 1.8? No, I'm not. I really can't. People will use pretty much whatever they want to use. Yoyr ignoring the fact that someone has already proven with math and the stats we have been shown that the ACR will still out DPS the AR. They are nerfing them all yes but they aren't addressing the problems. The gap that has formed between the AR and other rifles will grown incrementally smaller yes however the gap will still be there and noticable. Vae Victis Valor Vet, R.I.P MAG
Tweaksz NECROM0NGERS 29	Posted - 2014.03.17 09:08:00 - [27] - Quote Kasote Denzara wrote: Nosid Katona wrote: Underwhelming compared to the normal form perhaps, compared to the AR which they are imitating? Not at all. Just because the Scrambler, Rail, and Combat rifles all outperform their Assault variant doesn't change the fact that the assault variants are very close to if not better then the AR performance wise. While on the other side the AR variants not only are out performed by the AR but they are out performed by a HUGE margin by the rifles they are imitating. From highest damage reduction coming in 1.8: RR, SCR, CR, AR, SMG (which is still weird). Each and every variant of these listed weapons are having their damage reduced. For now, you can say anything you want about the CR's, RR's, and (possibly?) ScR Assault variant outpreforming the Plasma Rifle- I promise you that it's going to change in 1.8. All we are really doing right now, you and I, are pissing back and forth about things that are going to be changed, though I'm extremely sure the CR, SCR, and RR are going to lose a bit of popularity when they no longer do nearly twice the damage of the Plasma Rifle, if not more than that. I'm extremely positive, that against a shield tanker, the Plasma Rifle will devastate better (faster) than the Assault Combat Rifle can against an equally healthed armor tanker in 1.8. The problem right now with CR and RR is that they are armor killers with far too much damage being dealt to even be slowed down by shields. In 1.7, CR and RR are superior to every other rifle. In 1.8? We'll see. Am I saying the Plasma Rifle variants will find use in 1.8? No, I'm not. I really can't. People will use pretty much whatever they want to use. But then why give in to futility, so I guess is CCP does whatever it freakin' pleases and we sit tight while we pretty much know for a fact how things will go down... To that I say. Hell No! I'd rather voice my discomfort that, i'm pretty sure other players that like the AR or are Gallente loyal to the bone, are feeling. On the off chance that maybe, just maybe, CCP gives a rat's furry ass what this game will turn into. AR variants 1.8 - RIP
Korvin Lomont United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 747	Posted - 2014.03.17 09:15:00 - [28] - Quote Kaughst wrote: The thing is, there are no variants i.e Tactical Rail Rifle or Breach Scrambler Rifle to compare the AR variants to, while announced they would fall in line with appropriate ranges, damages and shortcomings. Arguably if you adjust the AR variant damage/range ect you mess with the logical place the future variants will have....once we do have all the variants I think that it would be easier to make radical stat changes to suit all of them more appropriately especially once they are placed in the hands of the players, much like they did with range changes on the rifles. You can compare the Breach AR to the RR (Breach is Caldari base Rifle) You can compare the Tac AR to the SCR (Tactical is the Amarr base Rifle) You can compare the Burst AR to the CR (Burst is the Minmatar base Rifle) If you do so you see how bad the gallente are at mimic other racial variants. BUT if you compare the other racial assault variants you can clearly see how incredible good they are compared to Origin assault (Gallente). Gallente must really suck in adapting to other weapon principles while all other races seem to be able to make superior mimic weapons...
Kasote Denzara A Vulture 1921	Posted - 2014.03.17 09:27:00 - [29] - Quote Nosid Katona wrote: Your ignoring the fact that someone has already proven with math and the stats we have been shown that the ACR will still out DPS the AR. They are nerfing them all yes but they aren't addressing the problems. The gap that has formed between the AR and other rifles will grown incrementally smaller yes however the gap will still be there and noticable. Ps. Not to mention with the new Prof. The gap has the potential to grow larger. As armor gives x2 the health RR and CR Prof.V will eat through it once shields are down, while AR and ScR Prof.V will demolish shields but meet heavy resistance against armor. I don't know I haven't seen it in action so I'll reserve judgement on that point. The moment that the "they'll have higher DPS because of theory and no actual testing!" slipped out, I shook my head. It holds no argumentative value. The DPS arguments are just "what ifs". That's it. "What if". The greatest problem with DPS arguments is simply... they don't formulate human error. You can expect a brick to break a window when thrown, but it'll just do nothing if it never meets the window. "Go ahead and dual tank. My Commando dual ganks." -Kasote Denzara I'm waiting for my G-I suit. It's what I want.
Nosid Katona HavoK Core RISE of LEGION 128	Posted - 2014.03.17 09:34:00 - [30] - Quote Kasote Denzara wrote: Nosid Katona wrote: Your ignoring the fact that someone has already proven with math and the stats we have been shown that the ACR will still out DPS the AR. They are nerfing them all yes but they aren't addressing the problems. The gap that has formed between the AR and other rifles will grown incrementally smaller yes however the gap will still be there and noticable. Ps. Not to mention with the new Prof. The gap has the potential to grow larger. As armor gives x2 the health RR and CR Prof.V will eat through it once shields are down, while AR and ScR Prof.V will demolish shields but meet heavy resistance against armor. I don't know I haven't seen it in action so I'll reserve judgement on that point. The moment that the "they'll have higher DPS because of theory and no actual testing!" slipped out, I shook my head. It holds no argumentative value. The DPS arguments are just "what ifs". That's it. "What if". The greatest problem with DPS arguments is simply... they don't formulate human error. You can expect a brick to break a window when thrown, but it'll just do nothing if it never meets the window. I'm not really sure what your argument is here... They aren't changing how the weapons function or handle in anyway, only the damage they do and the skills and modules that affect that damage. Will the changing of the rifle stats make people miss or hit more? Am I missing something? So again the ACR will still out DPS the AR I don't need to test that to know it. Also how are DPS values 'what ifs'? It is a static number that doesn't change in any situation. The application of that DPS depends on the user, opponent, and situation but the DPS is still there. Vae Victis Valor Vet, R.I.P MAG



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