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AV Buff: Make vehicle profile increase SL lock range.

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Beren Hurin Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 2190	Posted - 2014.03.12 16:20:00 - [1] - Quote Alright, I've wondered why vehicles have an insanely large profile. And I think this could be used as a way to balance swarm launchers as infantry AV vs. vehicles. Step 1) Make Swarm Launcher lock range a function of vehicle profile. Step 2) Make vehicle profiles start at 150 like they do now. Step 3) Make Swarm Launcher lock range 1m for each dB of vehicle profile. Base of 150m. Step 4) Make SL skill bonus (or variants or tier) impact lock range by 5% per level. (188m base at max skills) Step 5) Make STD vehicles have an increased dB by 10-20% depending on if shield/armor. Step 6) Make hardeners have a stacked drawback of increased profile of 10% per module. (Even if not activated). Make afterburners/overdrives give a +50% dB when activated. This would mean that a gunlogi, stacking 2 hardeners and activating an overdrive would be lockable by a lvl 5 SL user from: 150 (base range)1.25 (level 5)1.2 (STD gunlogi added profile)1.1 (hardener drawback)1.1 (hardener drawback)*1.5= 408m during his overdrive, and 272m before using it.
Beren Hurin Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 2191	Posted - 2014.03.12 17:57:00 - [2] - Quote This will probably get buried again, but I think its relevant.
Dauth Jenkins Ultramarine Corp 202	Posted - 2014.03.12 18:01:00 - [3] - Quote This makes sense, as I'm pretty sure that's how shields work in EvE. With a little balancing, this could be a great idea Sees prototompers... Sees blueberries start to snipe... Pulls out commando suit with laser rifle and swarm launcher...
Poonmunch Sanguis Defense Syndicate 811	Posted - 2014.03.12 18:06:00 - [4] - Quote Beren Hurin wrote: Alright, I've wondered why vehicles have an insanely large profile. And I think this could be used as a way to balance swarm launchers as infantry AV vs. vehicles. Step 1) Make Swarm Launcher lock range a function of vehicle profile. Step 2) Make vehicle profiles start at 150 like they do now. Step 3) Make Swarm Launcher lock range 1m for each dB of vehicle profile. Base of 150m. Step 4) Make SL skill bonus (or variants or tier) impact lock range by 5% per level. (188m base at max skills) Step 5) Make STD vehicles have an increased dB by 10-20% depending on if shield/armor. Step 6) Make hardeners have a stacked drawback of increased profile of 10% per module. (Even if not activated). Make afterburners/overdrives give a +50% dB when activated. This would mean that a gunlogi, stacking 2 hardeners and activating an overdrive would be lockable by a lvl 5 SL user from: 150 (base range)1.25 (level 5)1.2 (STD gunlogi added profile)1.1 (hardener drawback)1.1 (hardener drawback)*1.5= 408m during his overdrive, and 272m before using it. Yes! Please read this, CCP. Munch Minmatar Patriot (Level 7) Dedicated Sniper
Hagintora Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 311	Posted - 2014.03.12 18:07:00 - [5] - Quote There should be a way for vehicle users to counter this effect as well, either through the Skill Tree, or with Mods.
Kaughst Nyain San Renegade Alliance 261	Posted - 2014.03.12 18:08:00 - [6] - Quote Wouldn't that have to equate to vehicles getting some type of profile reduction module and than scan-less tanks...and than invisible tan.. OMG WHAT JUST RAN ME OVER "That is not how you say my name." "How do you say your name?" "I don't know but that is not how you say it."
Alpha 443-6732 General Tso's Alliance 350	Posted - 2014.03.12 18:08:00 - [7] - Quote Beren Hurin wrote: Alright, I've wondered why vehicles have an insanely large profile. And I think this could be used as a way to balance swarm launchers as infantry AV vs. vehicles. Step 1) Make Swarm Launcher lock range a function of vehicle profile. Step 2) Make vehicle profiles start at 150 like they do now. Step 3) Make Swarm Launcher lock range 1m for each dB of vehicle profile. Base of 150m. Step 4) Make SL skill bonus (or variants or tier) impact lock range by 5% per level. (188m base at max skills) Step 5) Make STD vehicles have an increased dB by 10-20% depending on if shield/armor. Step 6) Make hardeners have a stacked drawback of increased profile of 10% per module. (Even if not activated). Make afterburners/overdrives give a +50% dB when activated. This would mean that a gunlogi, stacking 2 hardeners and activating an overdrive would be lockable by a lvl 5 SL user from: 150 (base range)1.25 (level 5)1.2 (STD gunlogi added profile)1.1 (hardener drawback)1.1 (hardener drawback)*1.5= 408m during his overdrive, and 272m before using it. Interesting idea. This could branch into a whole bunch of mechanics like countermeasures being heavy profile dampeners. You could also revert the nerf on swarms if this change happened, because we would have means to counteract that kind of power.
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 775	Posted - 2014.03.12 18:08:00 - [8] - Quote I like this idea. You might want to cross-post it in the Suggestions forum.
Alpha 443-6732 General Tso's Alliance 350	Posted - 2014.03.12 18:09:00 - [9] - Quote Beren Hurin wrote: Alright, I've wondered why vehicles have an insanely large profile. And I think this could be used as a way to balance swarm launchers as infantry AV vs. vehicles. Step 1) Make Swarm Launcher lock range a function of vehicle profile. Step 2) Make vehicle profiles start at 150 like they do now. Step 3) Make Swarm Launcher lock range 1m for each dB of vehicle profile. Base of 150m. Step 4) Make SL skill bonus (or variants or tier) impact lock range by 5% per level. (188m base at max skills) Step 5) Make STD vehicles have an increased dB by 10-20% depending on if shield/armor. Step 6) Make hardeners have a stacked drawback of increased profile of 10% per module. (Even if not activated). Make afterburners/overdrives give a +50% dB when activated. This would mean that a gunlogi, stacking 2 hardeners and activating an overdrive would be lockable by a lvl 5 SL user from: 150 (base range)1.25 (level 5)1.2 (STD gunlogi added profile)1.1 (hardener drawback)1.1 (hardener drawback)*1.5= 408m during his overdrive, and 272m before using it. also, black ops tanks would have a more defined role
Harpyja Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1262	Posted - 2014.03.12 18:10:00 - [10] - Quote I like this. "By His light, and His will" - The Scriptures, Gheinok the First, 12:32

Beren Hurin Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 2199	Posted - 2014.03.12 18:13:00 - [11] - Quote Alpha 443-6732 wrote: Beren Hurin wrote: Alright, I've wondered why vehicles have an insanely large profile. And I think this could be used as a way to balance swarm launchers as infantry AV vs. vehicles. Step 1) Make Swarm Launcher lock range a function of vehicle profile. Step 2) Make vehicle profiles start at 150 like they do now. Step 3) Make Swarm Launcher lock range 1m for each dB of vehicle profile. Base of 150m. Step 4) Make SL skill bonus (or variants or tier) impact lock range by 5% per level. (188m base at max skills) Step 5) Make STD vehicles have an increased dB by 10-20% depending on if shield/armor. Step 6) Make hardeners have a stacked drawback of increased profile of 10% per module. (Even if not activated). Make afterburners/overdrives give a +50% dB when activated. This would mean that a gunlogi, stacking 2 hardeners and activating an overdrive would be lockable by a lvl 5 SL user from: 150 (base range)1.25 (level 5)1.2 (STD gunlogi added profile)1.1 (hardener drawback)1.1 (hardener drawback)*1.5= 408m during his overdrive, and 272m before using it. Interesting idea. This could branch into a whole bunch of mechanics like countermeasures being heavy profile dampeners. You could also revert the nerf on swarms if this change happened, because we would have means to counteract that kind of power. Yep. And scout LAVs.
Avallo Kantor Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire 341	Posted - 2014.03.12 18:13:00 - [12] - Quote This sounds like it could add a lot of meaningful depth to the game. However, I would wonder what you'd do about the other AV weapons (Forge Gun, and Plasma Cannon [if that even counts]) would react to the increased profiles. Would they do more damage? Perhaps have the Plasma Cannon gravitate toward it (slightly modifying flight path and moving faster?) The mechanic feels great, but it would make little sense if it only impacted the effectiveness of a single weapon. At least from a programming standpoint of trying to make using resources as efficient as possible. Also what would happen on edge cases? Such as the SL being in range when fired, but half way the booster ran out, would the SL fail to hit, or would it continue on to it's target based on the original scan when fired? What about the reverse situation?
pegasis prime BIG BAD W0LVES Canis Eliminatus Operatives 1593	Posted - 2014.03.12 18:15:00 - [13] - Quote I like some of your ideas but I loled when you request swarms getting back the ability to lock at 408m lol that's half the map if it's a large map and most of the map I if it's a smaller map. Also tieing swarms lock on to the db rating do sent make much sense as, .......well locking on to a tank through sound at 400m is a bit silly. Edited because auto correct is a *****. Proud Gunlogi pilot and forge gunner since August 2012. Why bother running you'll only die tired.
Alpha 443-6732 General Tso's Alliance 350	Posted - 2014.03.12 18:17:00 - [14] - Quote Id much rather see this happen than a default to the easiest option (more base damage and range). Seriously, this is a gem of an idea that opens up a huge amount of possibilities in the infantry AV vs Tank field.
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 5633	Posted - 2014.03.12 18:17:00 - [15] - Quote Alpha 443-6732 wrote: also, black ops tanks would have a more defined role Not to mention the Scout LAVs AV > HAV > INF > AV \| Not: HAV > AV GëÑ INF [s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through -HAND
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 5633	Posted - 2014.03.12 18:18:00 - [16] - Quote pegasis prime wrote: I like some of your ideas but I loved when you request swarms getting back the ability to lock at 4th lol that's half the map if it's a large map and most of the map I if it's a smaller map. Also tieing swarms lock on to the db rating do sent make much sense as, .......well locking on to a tank through sound at 400m is a bit silly. You'd still have a way to prevent them from locking onto you at 400m though. However, 400m is a bit much. I'd say no longer than 350m. AV > HAV > INF > AV \| Not: HAV > AV GëÑ INF [s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through -HAND
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 2935	Posted - 2014.03.12 18:18:00 - [17] - Quote Beren Hurin wrote: I WANT TO FIRE MY SL FROM THE TOP OF A TOWER WITH NO RISK. Fixed Intelligence is OP
Alpha 443-6732 General Tso's Alliance 350	Posted - 2014.03.12 18:18:00 - [18] - Quote pegasis prime wrote: I like some of your ideas but I loved when you request swarms getting back the ability to lock at 4th lol that's half the map if it's a large map and most of the map I if it's a smaller map. Also tieing swarms lock on to the db rating do sent make much sense as, .......well locking on to a tank through sound at 400m is a bit silly. dB isnt just for sound, its a type of log function for comparing power or intensity
Kigurosaka Laaksonen DUST University Ivy League 597	Posted - 2014.03.12 18:19:00 - [19] - Quote SL Lock range being modified by vehicle scan profile sounds like a great idea with lots of potential. It sounds it would make use of a good mechanic from EVE in DUST's FPS environment. Maybe a slight buff to SL base range. And why the hell weren't "Scan Profile" and "Scan Precision" called "Signature Radius" and "Scan Resolution" from the start? You know, like in EVE. DUST 514 Recruit Code - https://dust514.com/recruit/zluCyb/ EVE Buddy Invite - Too damn long. Ask me for it.
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 5635	Posted - 2014.03.12 18:21:00 - [20] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Beren Hurin wrote: I WANT TO FIRE MY SL FROM THE TOP OF A TOWER WITH NO RISK. Fixed Sigh There would also be no reward, as you could prevent locking from that range by fitting your vehicles accordingly. This however, would also put risk into vehicles with hardners cycled, who effectively remove any threat that's not a Breach FG, or a Railgun. AV > HAV > INF > AV \| Not: HAV > AV GëÑ INF [s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through -HAND


CCP Logibro C C P C C P Alliance 5897	Posted - 2014.03.12 18:21:00 - [21] - Quote Moved to Features and Ideas Discussion CCP Logibro // EVE Universe Community Team // Distributor of Nanites // Patron Saint of Logistics

Beren Hurin Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 2201	Posted - 2014.03.12 18:21:00 - [22] - Quote Hagintora wrote: There should be a way for vehicle users to counter this effect as well, either through the Skill Tree, or with Mods. First, not stacking hardeners would be the main way to 'counter' it. Basically, the more hardeners you'd fit, the more SL-AV you expose yourself to. 2x or 3x hardeners would then make your getaway much less likely. Generally, people don't fit mods that counteract the drawback of other mods. Second, the pilot suit bonuses could further affect the profile of vehicles. Thirdly, I was thinking of a variant of this idea where we could take the lock range for swarms back to 400m, but instead, make dB affect lock time rather than range. That would get really frustrating with LOS issues though.
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 5635	Posted - 2014.03.12 18:22:00 - [23] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: Moved to Features and Ideas Discussion ~~In after the lock!~~ Nevermind AV > HAV > INF > AV \| Not: HAV > AV GëÑ INF [s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through -HAND
pegasis prime BIG BAD W0LVES Canis Eliminatus Operatives 1593	Posted - 2014.03.12 18:24:00 - [24] - Quote Atiim wrote: pegasis prime wrote: I like some of your ideas but I loved when you request swarms getting back the ability to lock at 4th lol that's half the map if it's a large map and most of the map I if it's a smaller map. Also tieing swarms lock on to the db rating do sent make much sense as, .......well locking on to a tank through sound at 400m is a bit silly. You'd still have a way to prevent them from locking onto you at 400m though. However, 400m is a bit much. I'd say no longer than 350m. 300m max sounds better as 300m is still quite a long range for a lock on fire and forget based weapons system. 300m is also out of range from missile tanks by 50m and out of range of blasters by approx 100m. This would be fair as say you get a colly off at 300m from the tank you would get all 3 shots in the clip off before the first one hit enabiling the alpha dammage to take on any hav hardend or not. This scenario would allow the tanker to decide whether or not to move for cover or attack the swarmlauncher operative it would also allow av users to absolutly destroy tanks while on resist cycle cooldown assuming only 2 hardners are being used. Proud Gunlogi pilot and forge gunner since August 2012. Why bother running you'll only die tired.
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 2936	Posted - 2014.03.12 18:25:00 - [25] - Quote Atiim wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Beren Hurin wrote: I WANT TO FIRE MY SL FROM THE TOP OF A TOWER WITH NO RISK. Fixed Sigh There would also be no reward, as you could prevent locking from that range by fitting your vehicles accordingly. This however, would also put risk into vehicles with hardners cycled, who effectively remove any threat that's not a Breach FG, or a Railgun. How could i do that? Profile dampners? no they dont exist for vehicles No nitro? great so i have no extra speed if i wanted so less fits if i dont want to be targeted by every SL user in the next 5 districts Limit hardeners? no thats doesnt work because hardeners do not increase sig profile but extenders do if i remember Yea you just want to be sat on a tower again tbh Intelligence is OP
Alpha 443-6732 General Tso's Alliance 350	Posted - 2014.03.12 18:27:00 - [26] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Beren Hurin wrote: I WANT TO FIRE MY SL FROM THE TOP OF A TOWER WITH NO RISK. Fixed But this time you have the opportunity to render them useless while up there. You can decide whether or not they fire at you. So really, this idea just punishes the mouthbreather tankers. Also, make the active hardener increase your profile by half the resistance given (while active), and introduce passive hardeners that increase profile by only 1/8 of the resistance given (but reduce the resistance given by the passive hardener by about half or a two thirds of the active) eg: active shield hardener: 60% resist, 30% more profile (per hardener) passive shield hardener: 20% resist, 2.5% or 5% more profile (per hardener)
pegasis prime BIG BAD W0LVES Canis Eliminatus Operatives 1593	Posted - 2014.03.12 18:27:00 - [27] - Quote Beren Hurin wrote: Hagintora wrote: There shouldbe a way for vehicle users to counter this effect as well, either through the Skill Tree, or with Mods. would then make your getaway much less likely. . don't say thing like this as it just make you appear to want a win button. Proud Gunlogi pilot and forge gunner since August 2012. Why bother running you'll only die tired.
Beren Hurin Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 2203	Posted - 2014.03.12 18:29:00 - [28] - Quote Alpha 443-6732 wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Beren Hurin wrote: I WANT TO FIRE MY SL FROM THE TOP OF A TOWER WITH NO RISK. Fixed But this time you have the opportunity to render them useless while up there. You can decide whether or not they fire at you. So really, this idea just punishes the mouthbreather tankers. Also, make the active hardener increase your profile by half the resistance given (while active), and introduce passive hardeners that increase profile by only 1/8 of the resistance given (but reduce the resistance given by the passive hardener by about half or a two thirds of the active) eg: active shield hardener: 60% resist, 30% more profile (per hardener) passive shield hardener: 20% resist, 2.5% or 5% more profile (per hardener) That seems like a confusing way to put your suggestion, but I see your point. With my version you are sort of making the profile penalty on shield hardened tanks higher because its the same panalty for a smaller amount of resists. I dunno which way would be better.
Alpha 443-6732 General Tso's Alliance 350	Posted - 2014.03.12 18:30:00 - [29] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Atiim wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Beren Hurin wrote: I WANT TO FIRE MY SL FROM THE TOP OF A TOWER WITH NO RISK. Fixed Sigh There would also be no reward, as you could prevent locking from that range by fitting your vehicles accordingly. This however, would also put risk into vehicles with hardners cycled, who effectively remove any threat that's not a Breach FG, or a Railgun. How could i do that? Profile dampners? no they dont exist for vehicles No nitro? great so i have no extra speed if i wanted so less fits if i dont want to be targeted by every SL user in the next 5 districts Limit hardeners? no thats doesnt work because hardeners do not increase sig profile but extenders do if i remember Yea you just want to be sat on a tower again tbh Honestly I think you just want to shoot down any idea that buffs your "enemy" this change could pave the way for dampeners and signature punishments to add to the risk vs. reward of fitting a vehicle
Hagintora Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 311	Posted - 2014.03.12 18:30:00 - [30] - Quote Beren Hurin wrote: Hagintora wrote: There should be a way for vehicle users to counter this effect as well, either through the Skill Tree, or with Mods. First, not stacking hardeners would be the main way to 'counter' it. Basically, the more hardeners you'd fit, the more SL-AV you expose yourself to. 2x or 3x hardeners would then make your getaway much less likely. Generally, people don't fit mods that counteract the drawback of other mods. Second, the pilot suit bonuses could further affect the profile of vehicles. Thirdly, I was thinking of a variant of this idea where we could take the lock range for swarms back to 400m, but instead, make dB affect lock time rather than range. That would get really frustrating with LOS issues though. What I mean is if the SL's range is based on the vehicles db rating, then vehicles should be given the option to reduce their Profile. Even if, like Hardeners, the effect is only temporary. And for the record, I'm against the Pilot Suit's existence.

Alpha 443-6732 General Tso's Alliance 350	Posted - 2014.03.12 18:33:00 - [31] - Quote Im saying in addition to your suggestion of a passive +10% dB increase, make them have half their active resistance as an increase in profile (only when active). Also I was suggesting a way to implement a balanced passive hardener.
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 2936	Posted - 2014.03.12 18:34:00 - [32] - Quote Alpha 443-6732 wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Atiim wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Beren Hurin wrote: I WANT TO FIRE MY SL FROM THE TOP OF A TOWER WITH NO RISK. Fixed Sigh There would also be no reward, as you could prevent locking from that range by fitting your vehicles accordingly. This however, would also put risk into vehicles with hardners cycled, who effectively remove any threat that's not a Breach FG, or a Railgun. How could i do that? Profile dampners? no they dont exist for vehicles No nitro? great so i have no extra speed if i wanted so less fits if i dont want to be targeted by every SL user in the next 5 districts Limit hardeners? no thats doesnt work because hardeners do not increase sig profile but extenders do if i remember Yea you just want to be sat on a tower again tbh Honestly I think you just want to shoot down any idea that buffs your "enemy" this change could pave the way for dampeners and signature punishments to add to the risk vs. reward of fitting a vehicle Change does **** all becauses do not have them mods yet and that idea with passive resistance mods they are also removed and have been taken from us Intelligence is OP
Lanius Pulvis Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 181	Posted - 2014.03.12 18:34:00 - [33] - Quote As a dropship pilot, I'd say this idea has merit. It may be a bit much though, I'd personally rather see swarms have a slightly toned down version of this and increased missile speed with a hotfix to the glitchy lock-on. At the same time dropships should have slightly more vulnerability to swarms. Right now, a swarmer can make a pilot crash, but stands little chance of being killed by them unless you're already damaged. Edit: +1 for the well thought out idea. Not new, just new to you.
Beren Hurin Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 2203	Posted - 2014.03.12 18:35:00 - [34] - Quote pegasis prime wrote: Atiim wrote: pegasis prime wrote: I like some of your ideas but I loved when you request swarms getting back the ability to lock at 4th lol that's half the map if it's a large map and most of the map I if it's a smaller map. Also tieing swarms lock on to the db rating do sent make much sense as, .......well locking on to a tank through sound at 400m is a bit silly. You'd still have a way to prevent them from locking onto you at 400m though. However, 400m is a bit much. I'd say no longer than 350m. 300m max sounds better as 300m is still quite a long range for a lock on fire and forget based weapons system. 300m is also out of range from missile tanks by 50m and out of range of blasters by approx 100m. This would be fair as say you get a colly off at 300m from the tank you would get all 3 shots in the clip off before the first one hit enabiling the alpha dammage to take on any hav hardend or not. This scenario would allow the tanker to decide whether or not to move for cover or attack the swarmlauncher operative it would also allow av users to absolutly destroy tanks while on resist cycle cooldown assuming only 2 hardners are being used. Well, I like my example because it really illustrate that in MOST instances 300m really would be most ranges. It would only approach 400m if you get the 2x or 3x hardener dudes diving in and out with their overdrives all the time. So the 400m lock range would really only be possible while the overdrive is ACTIVE, and even then, if the SL dude is pretty far away, they could just TROLL him by shutting off his overdrive preventing any more locks. I would guess though that programming wise this would be VERY difficult resource wise just to balance AV. In the SDE, swarm launchers basically look like a cross between a repair tool and a mass driver. Making a weapon's effective range a function of the target that it is locking would be different than any weapon out there.
Alpha 443-6732 General Tso's Alliance 350	Posted - 2014.03.12 18:35:00 - [35] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Change does **** all becauses do not have them mods yet and that idea with passive resistance mods they are also removed and have been taken from us ;^)
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 5636	Posted - 2014.03.12 18:39:00 - [36] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: How could i do that? Profile dampners? no they dont exist for vehicles No nitro? great so i have no extra speed if i wanted so less fits if i dont want to be targeted by every SL user in the next 5 districts Limit hardeners? no thats doesnt work because hardeners do not increase sig profile but extenders do if i remember Yea you just want to be sat on a tower again tbh Under his model, you could prevent being locked on from 400m by not stacking hardeners. If we made this like EVE Online, then nobody would use Shielded HAVs simply because nobody want's to be locked on from 400m or run with Base HP stats. In New Eden, you cannot have something for nothing. If you want to stack hardeners, then you must make sacrifice a chunk of your 'getaway' ability; and vice versa for hit-and-run builds. You can have a speedy getaway, but you have to sacrifice the ability to run dual hardeners. Never once have I sat on a tower with AV. Ironically however, I do have pics of you doing so. AV > HAV > INF > AV \| Not: HAV > AV GëÑ INF [s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through -HAND
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 2937	Posted - 2014.03.12 18:43:00 - [37] - Quote Atiim wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: How could i do that? Profile dampners? no they dont exist for vehicles No nitro? great so i have no extra speed if i wanted so less fits if i dont want to be targeted by every SL user in the next 5 districts Limit hardeners? no thats doesnt work because hardeners do not increase sig profile but extenders do if i remember Yea you just want to be sat on a tower again tbh Under his model, you could prevent being locked on from 400m by not stacking hardeners. If we made this like EVE Online, then nobody would use Shielded HAVs simply because nobody want's to be locked on from 400m or run with Base HP stats. In New Eden, you cannot have something for nothing. If you want to stack hardeners, then you must make sacrifice a chunk of your 'getaway' ability; and vice versa for hit-and-run builds. You can have a speedy getaway, but you have to sacrifice the ability to run dual hardeners. Never once have I sat on a tower with AV. Ironically however, I do have pics of you doing so. If we made this like EVE online i would have cap and 2 perma repping hardeners on Also i could fit ewar on it or be attacked by ewar In new eden i can fit how i want and still run away in EVE online but on DUST no your not allowed Intelligence is OP
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1918	Posted - 2014.03.12 19:10:00 - [38] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Atiim wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: How could i do that? Profile dampners? no they dont exist for vehicles No nitro? great so i have no extra speed if i wanted so less fits if i dont want to be targeted by every SL user in the next 5 districts Limit hardeners? no thats doesnt work because hardeners do not increase sig profile but extenders do if i remember Yea you just want to be sat on a tower again tbh Under his model, you could prevent being locked on from 400m by not stacking hardeners. If we made this like EVE Online, then nobody would use Shielded HAVs simply because nobody want's to be locked on from 400m or run with Base HP stats. In New Eden, you cannot have something for nothing. If you want to stack hardeners, then you must make sacrifice a chunk of your 'getaway' ability; and vice versa for hit-and-run builds. You can have a speedy getaway, but you have to sacrifice the ability to run dual hardeners. Never once have I sat on a tower with AV. Ironically however, I do have pics of you doing so. If we made this like EVE online i would have cap and 2 perma repping hardeners on Also i could fit ewar on it or be attacked by ewar In new eden i can fit how i want and still run away in EVE online but on DUST no your not allowed Of course, because double standards. I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
Hagintora Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 311	Posted - 2014.03.12 19:22:00 - [39] - Quote I'm going to have to side with the vehicle users on this one. While the idea does have merit, other changes would have to be implented first for it to be balanced properly. Vehicles vs AV would have to be balanced, Vehiculer E-War would have to be introduced, and probably other things I haven't thought of. Otherwise you run the risk of tilting the balance too much the other way. As others on this thread have stated: If you want to have an edge, you must be willing to sacrifice something. The same principle is also applied on the Macro Scale: For every advantage, there must be a hard counter.
Beren Hurin Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 2203	Posted - 2014.03.12 19:33:00 - [40] - Quote Hagintora wrote: I'm going to have to side with the vehicle users on this one. While the idea does have merit, other changes would have to be implented first for it to be balanced properly. Vehicles vs AV would have to be balanced, Vehiculer E-War would have to be introduced, and probably other things I haven't thought of. Otherwise you run the risk of tilting the balance too much the other way. As others on this thread have stated: If you want to have an edge, you must be willing to sacrifice something. The same principle is also applied on the Macro Scale: For every advantage, there must be a hard counter. I think you guys are really really overestimating how often the extended range would come into effect. IMO hardeners should be for vehicle vs. vehicle engagement, and also for last minute protection. They shouldn't be an anti-infantry 'I WIN' button. As a result, if you wanted to be an anti infantry tank, you'd run a completely regen fit. Your buffer would be lower, but you'd have practically no difference vs. swarms than you do now, except you wouldn't have the buffer to tank TONS of grenades and such. One hardener on a MLT tank wouldn't add much difference either. It would put you at around 200m IF the guy was running lvl 5 SL. At current DPS levels, the SL really wouldn't be THAT big of a threat still. It is when you STACK hardeners on STD vehicles that you'd get ranges above 250m.

Alpha 443-6732 General Tso's Alliance 354	Posted - 2014.03.13 19:32:00 - [41] - Quote Hagintora wrote: I'm going to have to side with the vehicle users on this one. While the idea does have merit, other changes would have to be implented first for it to be balanced properly. Vehicles vs AV would have to be balanced, Vehiculer E-War would have to be introduced, and probably other things I haven't thought of. Otherwise you run the risk of tilting the balance too much the other way. As others on this thread have stated: If you want to have an edge, you must be willing to sacrifice something. The same principle is also applied on the Macro Scale: For every advantage, there must be a hard counter. re read the thread please.
The-Errorist 556	Posted - 2014.03.13 19:55:00 - [42] - Quote Alpha 443-6732 wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Beren Hurin wrote: I WANT TO FIRE MY SL FROM THE TOP OF A TOWER WITH NO RISK. Fixed But this time you have the opportunity to render them useless while up there. You can decide whether or not they fire at you. So really, this idea just punishes the mouthbreather tankers. Also, make the active hardener increase your profile by half the resistance given (while active), and introduce passive hardeners that increase profile by only 1/8 of the resistance given (but reduce the resistance given by the passive hardener by about half or a two thirds of the active) eg: active shield hardener: 60% resist, 30% more profile (per hardener) passive shield hardener: 20% resist, 2.5% or 5% more profile (per hardener) Alpha 443-6732 wrote: Im saying in addition to your suggestion of a passive +10% dB increase, make them have half their active resistance as an increase in profile (only when active). Also I was suggesting a way to implement a balanced passive hardener. I like these ideas a lot, it's much better than having a flat rate 50% increase to one's profile for just having a hardener even though its not active as suggested in the OP.
Dustbunny Durrr ReD or DeaD 156	Posted - 2014.03.13 23:04:00 - [43] - Quote Beren Hurin wrote: Alright, I've wondered why vehicles have an insanely large profile. And I think this could be used as a way to balance swarm launchers as infantry AV vs. vehicles. Step 1) Make Swarm Launcher lock range a function of vehicle profile. Step 2) Make vehicle profiles start at 150 like they do now. Step 3) Make Swarm Launcher lock range 1m for each dB of vehicle profile. Base of 150m. Step 4) Make SL skill bonus (or variants or tier) impact lock range by 5% per level. (188m base at max skills) Step 5) Make STD vehicles have an increased dB by 10-20% depending on if shield/armor. Step 6) Make hardeners have a stacked drawback of increased profile of 10% per module. (Even if not activated). Make afterburners/overdrives give a +50% dB when activated. This would mean that a gunlogi, stacking 2 hardeners and activating an overdrive would be lockable by a lvl 5 SL user from: 150 (base range)1.25 (level 5)1.2 (STD gunlogi added profile)1.1 (hardener drawback)1.1 (hardener drawback)*1.5= 408m during his overdrive, and 272m before using it. This actually could solve the issue of swarm launchers having more range, without raping and pillaging drop ships (by giving the DS a smaller profile). 1: Yes 2: We would need different starting profiles for HAVs, Dropships, and LAVs. Dropships could get a skill which reduces profile say, 5% per level. 3: Seems just a touch low, but lets work with this. 4: Yes 5: Because of 6, I would leave them the same as militia variants. 6: I would say 10% per module only when active (Since they have no benefit unless active). The same with the overdrive/AB, +50% when active (since when they are active they can get out of range very quickly).
Dunce Masterson Savage Bullet 40	Posted - 2014.03.13 23:19:00 - [44] - Quote until they can fix the rendering problems they have with swarms the lock range is staying put. the mistake they made with 1.7 is that they removed the buffing aspect of the vehicle skill tree now every one in a militia tank or manning any turret is just has deadly has some one who is spect into vehicles and turrets now if they brought back the buffing aspect to the tree the players not skilled into vehicles will be easyer to deal with and will be less threatening. this is the real reason why tanks are considered op atm. I could give you 10 reason why the Dust team cant get the Amarr tank style right but they are all out of care.
Godin Thekiller OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1866	Posted - 2014.03.14 00:17:00 - [45] - Quote Beren Hurin wrote: Hagintora wrote: There should be a way for vehicle users to counter this effect as well, either through the Skill Tree, or with Mods. First, not stacking hardeners would be the main way to 'counter' it. Basically, the more hardeners you'd fit, the more SL-AV you expose yourself to. 2x or 3x hardeners would then make your getaway much less likely. Generally, people don't fit mods that counteract the drawback of other mods. Second, the pilot suit bonuses could further affect the profile of vehicles. Thirdly, I was thinking of a variant of this idea where we could take the lock range for swarms back to 400m, but instead, make dB affect lock time rather than range. That would get really frustrating with LOS issues though. So you want me to mix the types of tank that I want to use? No, I refuse. I'll leave this here, and swarms should get a base 225m range, without this. 'lights cigar' fuck with me, and I'll melt your face off. Gallente forever! Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
Alpha 443-6732 General Tso's Alliance 354	Posted - 2014.03.14 01:26:00 - [46] - Quote Godin Thekiller wrote: Beren Hurin wrote: Hagintora wrote: There should be a way for vehicle users to counter this effect as well, either through the Skill Tree, or with Mods. First, not stacking hardeners would be the main way to 'counter' it. Basically, the more hardeners you'd fit, the more SL-AV you expose yourself to. 2x or 3x hardeners would then make your getaway much less likely. Generally, people don't fit mods that counteract the drawback of other mods. Second, the pilot suit bonuses could further affect the profile of vehicles. Thirdly, I was thinking of a variant of this idea where we could take the lock range for swarms back to 400m, but instead, make dB affect lock time rather than range. That would get really frustrating with LOS issues though. So you want me to mix the types of tank that I want to use? No, I refuse. I'll leave this here, and swarms should get a base 225m range, without this. Nah, with all the flak that 1.7 got, all turrets except for the large blaster and rail received an overall positive improvement. I think its too late to revert everything, so lets work with what we've got. Though honestly I don't know whats worse, the blaster spam of old or the current railgun spam (though I have to say, tanking was a lot more enjoyable than what we have here)


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