DUST Search - AV Buff: Make vehicle profile increase SL lock range.

Alpha 443-6732 wrote:

Beren Hurin wrote:

Alright, I've wondered why vehicles have an insanely large profile. And I think this could be used as a way to balance swarm launchers as infantry AV vs. vehicles.

Step 1) Make Swarm Launcher lock range a function of vehicle profile.
Step 2) Make vehicle profiles start at 150 like they do now.
Step 3) Make Swarm Launcher lock range 1m for each dB of vehicle profile. Base of 150m.
Step 4) Make SL skill bonus (or variants or tier) impact lock range by 5% per level. (188m base at max skills)
Step 5) Make STD vehicles have an increased dB by 10-20% depending on if shield/armor.
Step 6) Make hardeners have a stacked drawback of increased profile of 10% per module. (Even if not activated). Make afterburners/overdrives give a +50% dB when activated.

This would mean that a gunlogi, stacking 2 hardeners and activating an overdrive would be lockable by a lvl 5 SL user from:

150 (base range)*1.25 (level 5)*1.2 (STD gunlogi added profile)*1.1 (hardener drawback)*1.1 (hardener drawback)*1.5= 408m during his overdrive, and 272m before using it.

Interesting idea. This could branch into a whole bunch of mechanics like countermeasures being heavy profile dampeners.

You could also revert the nerf on swarms if this change happened, because we would have means to counteract that kind of power.


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Beren Hurin Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 2190	Posted - 2014.03.12 16:20:00 - [1] - Quote Alright, I've wondered why vehicles have an insanely large profile. And I think this could be used as a way to balance swarm launchers as infantry AV vs. vehicles. Step 1) Make Swarm Launcher lock range a function of vehicle profile. Step 2) Make vehicle profiles start at 150 like they do now. Step 3) Make Swarm Launcher lock range 1m for each dB of vehicle profile. Base of 150m. Step 4) Make SL skill bonus (or variants or tier) impact lock range by 5% per level. (188m base at max skills) Step 5) Make STD vehicles have an increased dB by 10-20% depending on if shield/armor. Step 6) Make hardeners have a stacked drawback of increased profile of 10% per module. (Even if not activated). Make afterburners/overdrives give a +50% dB when activated. This would mean that a gunlogi, stacking 2 hardeners and activating an overdrive would be lockable by a lvl 5 SL user from: 150 (base range)1.25 (level 5)1.2 (STD gunlogi added profile)1.1 (hardener drawback)1.1 (hardener drawback)*1.5= 408m during his overdrive, and 272m before using it.
Beren Hurin Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 2191	Posted - 2014.03.12 17:57:00 - [2] - Quote This will probably get buried again, but I think its relevant.
Beren Hurin Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 2199	Posted - 2014.03.12 18:13:00 - [3] - Quote Alpha 443-6732 wrote: Beren Hurin wrote: Alright, I've wondered why vehicles have an insanely large profile. And I think this could be used as a way to balance swarm launchers as infantry AV vs. vehicles. Step 1) Make Swarm Launcher lock range a function of vehicle profile. Step 2) Make vehicle profiles start at 150 like they do now. Step 3) Make Swarm Launcher lock range 1m for each dB of vehicle profile. Base of 150m. Step 4) Make SL skill bonus (or variants or tier) impact lock range by 5% per level. (188m base at max skills) Step 5) Make STD vehicles have an increased dB by 10-20% depending on if shield/armor. Step 6) Make hardeners have a stacked drawback of increased profile of 10% per module. (Even if not activated). Make afterburners/overdrives give a +50% dB when activated. This would mean that a gunlogi, stacking 2 hardeners and activating an overdrive would be lockable by a lvl 5 SL user from: 150 (base range)1.25 (level 5)1.2 (STD gunlogi added profile)1.1 (hardener drawback)1.1 (hardener drawback)*1.5= 408m during his overdrive, and 272m before using it. Interesting idea. This could branch into a whole bunch of mechanics like countermeasures being heavy profile dampeners. You could also revert the nerf on swarms if this change happened, because we would have means to counteract that kind of power. Yep. And scout LAVs.
Beren Hurin Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 2201	Posted - 2014.03.12 18:21:00 - [4] - Quote Hagintora wrote: There should be a way for vehicle users to counter this effect as well, either through the Skill Tree, or with Mods. First, not stacking hardeners would be the main way to 'counter' it. Basically, the more hardeners you'd fit, the more SL-AV you expose yourself to. 2x or 3x hardeners would then make your getaway much less likely. Generally, people don't fit mods that counteract the drawback of other mods. Second, the pilot suit bonuses could further affect the profile of vehicles. Thirdly, I was thinking of a variant of this idea where we could take the lock range for swarms back to 400m, but instead, make dB affect lock time rather than range. That would get really frustrating with LOS issues though.
Beren Hurin Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 2203	Posted - 2014.03.12 18:29:00 - [5] - Quote Alpha 443-6732 wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Beren Hurin wrote: I WANT TO FIRE MY SL FROM THE TOP OF A TOWER WITH NO RISK. Fixed But this time you have the opportunity to render them useless while up there. You can decide whether or not they fire at you. So really, this idea just punishes the mouthbreather tankers. Also, make the active hardener increase your profile by half the resistance given (while active), and introduce passive hardeners that increase profile by only 1/8 of the resistance given (but reduce the resistance given by the passive hardener by about half or a two thirds of the active) eg: active shield hardener: 60% resist, 30% more profile (per hardener) passive shield hardener: 20% resist, 2.5% or 5% more profile (per hardener) That seems like a confusing way to put your suggestion, but I see your point. With my version you are sort of making the profile penalty on shield hardened tanks higher because its the same panalty for a smaller amount of resists. I dunno which way would be better.
Beren Hurin Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 2203	Posted - 2014.03.12 18:35:00 - [6] - Quote pegasis prime wrote: Atiim wrote: pegasis prime wrote: I like some of your ideas but I loved when you request swarms getting back the ability to lock at 4th lol that's half the map if it's a large map and most of the map I if it's a smaller map. Also tieing swarms lock on to the db rating do sent make much sense as, .......well locking on to a tank through sound at 400m is a bit silly. You'd still have a way to prevent them from locking onto you at 400m though. However, 400m is a bit much. I'd say no longer than 350m. 300m max sounds better as 300m is still quite a long range for a lock on fire and forget based weapons system. 300m is also out of range from missile tanks by 50m and out of range of blasters by approx 100m. This would be fair as say you get a colly off at 300m from the tank you would get all 3 shots in the clip off before the first one hit enabiling the alpha dammage to take on any hav hardend or not. This scenario would allow the tanker to decide whether or not to move for cover or attack the swarmlauncher operative it would also allow av users to absolutly destroy tanks while on resist cycle cooldown assuming only 2 hardners are being used. Well, I like my example because it really illustrate that in MOST instances 300m really would be most ranges. It would only approach 400m if you get the 2x or 3x hardener dudes diving in and out with their overdrives all the time. So the 400m lock range would really only be possible while the overdrive is ACTIVE, and even then, if the SL dude is pretty far away, they could just TROLL him by shutting off his overdrive preventing any more locks. I would guess though that programming wise this would be VERY difficult resource wise just to balance AV. In the SDE, swarm launchers basically look like a cross between a repair tool and a mass driver. Making a weapon's effective range a function of the target that it is locking would be different than any weapon out there.
Beren Hurin Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 2203	Posted - 2014.03.12 19:33:00 - [7] - Quote Hagintora wrote: I'm going to have to side with the vehicle users on this one. While the idea does have merit, other changes would have to be implented first for it to be balanced properly. Vehicles vs AV would have to be balanced, Vehiculer E-War would have to be introduced, and probably other things I haven't thought of. Otherwise you run the risk of tilting the balance too much the other way. As others on this thread have stated: If you want to have an edge, you must be willing to sacrifice something. The same principle is also applied on the Macro Scale: For every advantage, there must be a hard counter. I think you guys are really really overestimating how often the extended range would come into effect. IMO hardeners should be for vehicle vs. vehicle engagement, and also for last minute protection. They shouldn't be an anti-infantry 'I WIN' button. As a result, if you wanted to be an anti infantry tank, you'd run a completely regen fit. Your buffer would be lower, but you'd have practically no difference vs. swarms than you do now, except you wouldn't have the buffer to tank TONS of grenades and such. One hardener on a MLT tank wouldn't add much difference either. It would put you at around 200m IF the guy was running lvl 5 SL. At current DPS levels, the SL really wouldn't be THAT big of a threat still. It is when you STACK hardeners on STD vehicles that you'd get ranges above 250m.