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[Analysis] Laser rifle damage output examined & solved!

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Musta Tornius Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1087	Posted - 2014.03.09 19:51:00 - [1] - Quote Introduction With the rise of interest in the laser rifle and after a long year of not knowing how exactly its damage is calculated, the three Team Fairy Dust members (G Torq, Grit Breather & Musta Tornius) decided to figure it out once and for all. CCP Wolfman mentioned just before Uprising was deployed last year that the laser rifle gets an increase of 0.6 damage for each shot fired. With the release of the SDE we expected to see this number somewhere in there but that was not the case. Instead there were some beam parameters that werenGÇÖt making any kind of sense so we knew we had to do some testing. This document and the spreadsheet that is linked in the next section details how we went about testing and what the results were. TL;DR: Laser does an extra 0.8 pts of damage for each shot fired, while the trigger is held down, until the rifle overheats. Outline Knowing that the Laser Rifle will do increasing damage over time, and that there is a significant amount of rumours, we decided to run a series of tests to collect data-points and extrapolate a plausible formula for how the Laser Rifle operates. Part of the purpose was also to compare the resulting formulae with the data presented by CCP Games(r) in the released Static Data Export (SDE), to help Fitting-Tools and other 3rd party apps to better model damage and present data. 2 sheets have been compiled with the resulting data, with 1 for quick lookup and 1 with more details: I https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0Aj6O9uv2Dgu_dGFrNjkyNzhzS0xTcnRrQUlyNUNPT0E&single=true&gid=11&range=A6%3AJ107&output=html II https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0Aj6O9uv2Dgu_dGFrNjkyNzhzS0xTcnRrQUlyNUNPT0E&single=true&gid=12&range=A1%3AQ106&output=html Base Damage is the damage caused by the base-value of 17 pts per shot. Normalised Damage is the measured damage, normalised to 100% efficiency. Predicted Damage is the damage predicted with a given increase to damage per shot The data we looked for was: Damage Increase Model - How does the Beam Damage increase over time Damage Modifier (Equipment and Skill) Efficiency - Is it worth using Damage Modifiers Maximum Damage Potential - How far can each Laser Rifle be taken before overheating Burn-Time vs Heat Models - Is Beam-damage dependent on Burn-Time or Heat The initial outset of there being a 0.6 pts increase to damage-output per shot, allowed us to assume a linearly increasing output. Tests All tests were performed with all three tiers of laser rifles and varying suits. To achieve the higher shot outputs without overheating too quickly an Amarr assault suit was used at level 4. The tests were performed in faction warfare with both players on the same side to ease the time it took to test. All tests were also performed well inside the lasers optimal range bracket (66-84m) to ensure that the efficiency coefficient wasnGÇÖt jumping all over the place like it can do. This also allowed to largest-possible modifiers, to avoid rounding-errors to become too significant. Throughout the tests, results were normalised at 100% efficiency, to get the weaponGÇÖs damage-output instead of the damage applied. This allowed us to test against both shield and armor on suits, as well as against LAVs, and then compile a single result-set from all measurements. 1. Suit test: The first tests were done using a heavy tanked sentinel suit with no reps on them. Doing this we could achieve roughly 40 shots fired before the target would expire. The shots were all aimed at the midsection of the target. Data Sheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0Aj6O9uv2Dgu_dGFrNjkyNzhzS0xTcnRrQUlyNUNPT0E&single=true&gid=4&range=B6%3AJ107&output=html Graph of the results: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/oimg?key=0Aj6O9uv2Dgu_dGFrNjkyNzhzS0xTcnRrQUlyNUNPT0E&oid=9&zx=tyetb0mbonmb 2. LAV - Armour test: A methana with a complex 120mm plate and no armor-repper was used for this test. One person would flux away the shields as the regen would interfere with the results. The other person would then commence firing at optimal range. The efficiency was noted and used to calculate what the damage would have been at 100% as it was only 16% on armour at optimal. This test allowed us to empty the whole clip of all the three laser rifles (std,adv,pro). Data Sheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0Aj6O9... DUST514 Weapon Range & Information Team Fairy DUST
Musta Tornius Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1087	Posted - 2014.03.09 19:51:00 - [2] - Quote 4. Heat affect on damage test: We again used a LAV that was fluxed before fired at in optimal to test if letting go of the trigger would reset the increments or if it would only drop slightly as the trigger was only let go for less than a second. A laser was pre-heated for different amount of shots, the trigger was released and then aimed at the LAV and fired for a differing amount. The numbers were recorded and normalised to check if damage was as expected (that the damage counter is reset as soon as the trigger was let go). The number of shots dealt to the LAV is registered as the data-point, since the first number of shots (the heat-up) would less important that whether they cause an offset Data Sheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0Aj6O9uv2Dgu_dGFrNjkyNzhzS0xTcnRrQUlyNUNPT0E&single=true&gid=18&range=B6%3AJ107&output=html 5. Maximum shots possible. Using all three levels of Laser Rifles (regular, ELM-7 and Viziam), as well as both Amarr Assault suits with skill-level 4 and Amarr Sentinel suit, we could record how many shots were fired until the weapon overheated. An external data point was provided by Mortedeamor for the use of a Viziam with Amarr Assault suit level 5. Conclusion The actual results for all the data gathered can be seen in the spreadsheets that are linked above. Damage Increase Model After looking at the data and trying different variables we came to the conclusion that 0.8 damage increase after each shot lines up well to the data we gathered. This appears to have no resemblance with the data in the SDE but that matters not as we now know pretty accurately what damage the laser does each shot. Burn-Time vs Heat Models Another thing that was verified was that the damage is reset once the trigger is let go and as such it doesnGÇÖt matter how GÇÿhotGÇÖ the rifle is, only how long the trigger has been held down. Damage Modifier (Equipment and Skill) Efficiency Damage mod testing was inconclusive as we didnGÇÖt do enough sampling to correctly determine if a damage mod affects the beam increase per shot or not. This might be revised at a future date if we get the time. Testing of Proficiency Skill was postponed. Maximum Damage Potential We found that skills and weapon-levels allows the laser-rifles to be taken from a base of 60 shots up to 89 shots before overheating. This translates into an additional 2200 pts of damage-potential. DUST514 Weapon Range & Information Team Fairy DUST
Musta Tornius Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1087	Posted - 2014.03.09 19:52:00 - [3] - Quote A big thank you to Team Fairy Dust for this little research, it was hard work and took 3 days to complete but I hope we have managed to give you a fairly accurate overview of the laser rifle. DUST514 Weapon Range & Information Team Fairy DUST
G Torq ALTA B2O 466	Posted - 2014.03.09 19:56:00 - [4] - Quote Press LIKE here if you think work on the above is better than what Musta's ---> Team Fairy DUST HTTP://Dust.Thang.DK/ - DUST514 Fitting Tool based on DUST SDE
THUNDERGROOVE ZionTCD 546	Posted - 2014.03.09 20:05:00 - [5] - Quote Nice to see someone do some research about my favorite weapon. It should definitely help new players understand how the weapon works, how useful it can be while in the optimal and why it should be extremely deadly in optimal due to how small of a range it's useful in. Thanks for all the amazing data! Director of ZionTCD Amarr Logi \| Amarr Sentinel \| Amarr Scout (SoonGäó) TDBS
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 2253	Posted - 2014.03.09 20:21:00 - [6] - Quote Solid work. +1, though I must admit I am a little disappointed something really interesting/surprising we didn't know came from it. Oh well, still chomping at the bit for 1.8! "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu Forum Warrior lv.2 Amarr victor!
Dragonmeballs Better Hide R Die 27	Posted - 2014.03.09 22:05:00 - [7] - Quote G Torq wrote: Press LIKE here if you think my work on the above is better than Musta's! ---> Were you the target in the suit test? If so than +1 To the OP....well done sir...well done! +10 to you and your team. Hopefully the laser gives the RR spammers something to think about in 1.8. D
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 10844	Posted - 2014.03.09 22:29:00 - [8] - Quote 'Analysis' is best thread title. You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake.
Iskandar Zul Karnain Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 2602	Posted - 2014.03.10 00:25:00 - [9] - Quote This is a fantastic post! Big thanks for taking the time to put this together. Hellstorm Inc., Executive Director Amarr Victor
Zero Harpuia Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 1434	Posted - 2014.03.10 00:53:00 - [10] - Quote Nice to finally know how the bloody thing works. I've been using the thing since it came out, and although it under-performs horridly in the Attack Rifle meta of today I still hope it comes back and finds it's niche. It's sad that the players had to science this out though. CCP needs to sticky this, then copy-paste the TLDR into the Laser Rifle's details page in-game. FAR too little real data in the game itself, and far too much faith on CCP's part that new players will immediately check the forums they don't even know exist. Shields as Weapons Zelda Dynasty Warriors is a real thing.

dent 308 Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2510	Posted - 2014.03.10 03:24:00 - [11] - Quote Send these guys isk. Hail Satan
Lorhak Gannarsein Science For Death 2007	Posted - 2014.03.10 03:31:00 - [12] - Quote dent 308 wrote: Send these guys isk. I would but I'm basically broke :(] Assault ak.0 w/ScR+ScP 4LYFE Forum Warrior Level Two. (GëºGêçGëª)/
Guildo Crow ZionTCD 199	Posted - 2014.03.10 04:08:00 - [13] - Quote I wonder though, if the damage increase was linked to the actual heat of the gun, as opposed to the amount of time the trigger is held down. It might be enough, along with the optimal and falloff buff that's coming, to make this rifle fairly competitive once again. Great work.
I-Shayz-I I-----I 2477	Posted - 2014.03.10 04:36:00 - [14] - Quote OOOOH I can help guys! I recorded myself using the standard laser rifle with and without damage mods. Using damage mods gave a significant increase in damage output, and I can upload the video if you would like me to. It was against a heavy frame, no skills in laser rifle, in a minmatar suit. Links: List of Most Important Threads I make logistics videos!
G Torq ALTA B2O 480	Posted - 2014.03.10 07:12:00 - [15] - Quote I-Shayz-I wrote: OOOOH I can help guys! I recorded myself using the standard laser rifle with and without damage mods. Using damage mods gave a significant increase in damage output, and I can upload the video if you would like me to. It was against a heavy frame, no skills in laser rifle, in a minmatar suit. Hi I-Shayz-I (You need a simpler name ) Sure, if you can upload it via a file-share instead of youtube, to ensure we get the source file. Alternatively, I can share a Google Spreadsheet with you, where you can enter how many shots fired vs damage tanken and resists for Shield and Armor. Then I can review that and update the report accordingly. (this is basically the same sheet as we have been using, so integrating it should be fairly trivial) Note: It is critical that we get an exact count on shots (see the ammo-count before and after), and exact shield and armor damage counts along with resists/effectiveness. Also, there must be no ongoing shield-regen or armor repairing, as these will make exact read-outs near impossible. Team Fairy DUST HTTP://Dust.Thang.DK/ - DUST514 Fitting Tool based on DUST SDE
Spectral Clone Dust2Dust. Top Men. 1595	Posted - 2014.03.10 07:27:00 - [16] - Quote Great job guys. Myself, I might revisit the LR if we get our SP refunded. This guide will greatly help me to make the decision and transition to it. Drop it like its hat.
FIRST TESTDUMMY Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State 44	Posted - 2014.03.10 07:40:00 - [17] - Quote Who was playing the role of the test dummy? I'd give him one-million likes for being a trooper!
Musta Tornius Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1118	Posted - 2014.03.10 08:54:00 - [18] - Quote FIRST TESTDUMMY wrote: Who was playing the role of the test dummy? I'd give him one-million likes for being a trooper! Send them to myself, GTorq and Grit Breather as we all had the pleasure :P DUST514 Weapon Range & Information Team Fairy DUST
Grit Breather Cannonfodder PMC 1068	Posted - 2014.03.10 20:19:00 - [19] - Quote This is great work. I helped with some of the graphs and was also a target to G Torq's laser. That thing hurts! "Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast." GÇò Lewis Carroll, Alice in Wonderland
Bones McGavins TacoCat Industries 556	Posted - 2014.03.10 21:17:00 - [20] - Quote is there no cap? I always preheat my lazer to come in strong enough to drop folks before they can really respond. I was always under the impression there was a max damage i could preheat to, but perhaps this isnt the case and it constantly grows? That would be useful to know. (This is why complaints about the LR are a BIT unfounded right now. Proper knowledge and use of it allows it to currently be a pretty solid weapon. Scan, pre-heat from behind cover and pop out and insta kill some dude standing on a building looking for easy RR kills)

Musta Tornius Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1144	Posted - 2014.03.10 21:56:00 - [21] - Quote Bones McGavins wrote: is there no cap? I always preheat my lazer to come in strong enough to drop folks before they can really respond. I was always under the impression there was a max damage i could preheat to, but perhaps this isnt the case and it constantly grows? That would be useful to know. (This is why complaints about the LR are a BIT unfounded right now. Proper knowledge and use of it allows it to currently be a pretty solid weapon. Scan, pre-heat from behind cover and pop out and insta kill some dude standing on a building looking for easy RR kills) Well there is a cap, when you run out of ammo that is :P DUST514 Weapon Range & Information Team Fairy DUST
Argo Filch Cannonfodder PMC 71	Posted - 2014.03.11 08:27:00 - [22] - Quote feels like too much math... and musta... you got too much time on your hand!
Grit Breather Cannonfodder PMC 1071	Posted - 2014.03.11 08:43:00 - [23] - Quote Argo Filch wrote: feels like too much math... and musta... you got too much time on your hand! Not that much math! "Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast." GÇò Lewis Carroll, Alice in Wonderland
Musta Tornius Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1149	Posted - 2014.03.13 20:39:00 - [24] - Quote Good news everyone, we re-tested damage mods and proficiency skills and found out that they are working correctly. So if you want 10% extra damage (at least until 1.8) put on a complex damage mod! DUST514 Weapon Range & Information Team Fairy DUST
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 2550	Posted - 2014.04.01 14:24:00 - [25] - Quote Question for my math overlords: Any idea whether or not there is a big difference in potential DPS between a proto amarr assault and a proto amarr commando? "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu Forum Warrior lv.2 Amarr victor!
Musta Tornius Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1239	Posted - 2014.04.01 16:27:00 - [26] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: Question for my math overlords: Any idea whether or not there is a big difference in potential DPS between a proto amarr assault and a proto amarr commando? Is this without factoring in damage mods and or proficiency skills? DUST514 Weapon Range & Information Team Fairy DUST
Musta Tornius Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1239	Posted - 2014.04.01 16:29:00 - [27] - Quote Looks like I have forgot to mention. In 1.8 it's no longer 0.8 increase. Is 0.91 for standard and 1.04 for pro, if I remember correctly. This is a big difference, especially on commando you should see it easily after about 30 shots with pro. DUST514 Weapon Range & Information Team Fairy DUST
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 2551	Posted - 2014.04.01 17:20:00 - [28] - Quote Musta Tornius wrote: Looks like I have forgot to mention. In 1.8 it's no longer 0.8 increase. Is 0.91 for standard and 1.04 for pro, if I remember correctly. This is a big difference, especially on commando you should see it easily after about 30 shots with pro. So they did buff it and increase the difference between tiers. Nice. As to my original question about assault vs commando, I guess if you have an answer with no mods or proficiency and an answer with full proficiency and say 1 complex mod, one could always compare the two and see if that makes a difference. Perhaps there are some situations in which one is better than the other or maybe there is one clear winner. "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu Forum Warrior lv.2 Amarr victor!
Musta Tornius Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1243	Posted - 2014.04.01 18:59:00 - [29] - Quote Well damage mod helps against armour and shield whereas proficiency is only shields. The 10% bonus for commando translates straight into 10% dps increase too so it's well worth it. Add on some proficiency and you're doing decent amount of damage quickly (not to mention adding a dmg mod too). DUST514 Weapon Range & Information Team Fairy DUST
The Terminator T-1000 Skynet Incorporated 309	Posted - 2014.04.01 19:03:00 - [30] - Quote So what is the optimum and effective range now?



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