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Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries General Tso's Alliance 7211	Posted - 2014.03.08 12:54:00 - [1] - Quote So, I won't go into detail as to why dual tanking will be the best option in 1.8 because there is already an excellent thread by Arkena Wyrnspire about it. Here, take a look: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=146201 [Introduction]: Dual tanking is the act of having both a strong shield and a strong armor tank to bump the total eHP (Effective Hit Points) of a suit to ludicrous proportions, way above the intended numbers. This causes lack of diversity, as people rarely use the utility modules that having one type of tank opens up, as well as pushing suits outside of their intended role (1000 eHP scouts are going to be possible), similar to how sharpshooter back in the closed beta would push weapons outside of their intended role. In EVE, having a single strong tank works much better than having two weak tanks. The main two ways CCP Reykjavik achieves this is by having restrictive CPU/PG requirements on tank modules, so you can either have one strong stank or two weak tanks, and by having useful utility modules on both medium (high in DUST) and low slots, so if you have two weak tanks you also don't get the utility you would otherwise get. [A step in the right direction?]: Looking at the scouts and heavies in 1.8, their CPU/PG seems to be balanced in this way: Armor tanking suits get higher PG but lower CPU Shield tanking suits get higher CPU but lower PG That means that armor tanking suits can fit an armor tank very well, since it is PG intensive, while fitting a shield tank would be problematic. And the same only in reverse for shield tanking, as shields are CPU intensive. This looks like a step in the right direction, but considering that even while having lower CPU on armor suits, they still have more CPU than we have now, and vice versa on shield suits, that only begins to solve the dual tanking problem. Fitting both types will still be relatively easy. [Solution 1 of 2 - CPU/PG]: CCP needs to increase the CPU/PG requirements of armor modules and shield modules to much higher numbers than they are right now. This would mean that having two tank types would require to have two weak tanks. Here are some suggested numbers, using scouts as a baseline: Quote: Armor Plates: Basic Armor Plates: 20 CPU / 7 PG Advanced Armor Plates: 30 CPU / 10 PG Complex Armor Plates: 40 CPU / 15 PG Shield Extenders: Basic Shield Extender: 34 CPU / 4 PG Advanced Shield Extender: 50 CPU / 6 PG Complex Shield Extender: 70 CPU / 9 PG [Solution 2 of 2 - Utility Modules]: Utility modules (Armor Repairers, Shield Rechargers, Shield Energizers, Shield Regulators, any other module that doesn't affect eHP or damage) should have lower CPU/PG requirements than HP modules, and should have logical locations. I will not suggest logical CPU/PG requirements for utility modules, as there are too many, but in general they should be low - medium. Currently, modules are scattered wherever, with a heavy imbalance towards low slots. This would mean that in the new system, shield tankers would enjoy a wide range of utility modules to use while armor tankers would be forced into either modules that don't fit their role, or dual tanking. (For the most part) Here are some suggested moves for modules: Quote: Scan Precision - Low slot (Caldari Scout is a scanner suit, hence this utility module should be moved there) Profile Dampeners - High slot (Gallente scout is a stealth suit, hence this utility module should be moved there) Cardiac Regulators - High Slot (Amarr get high stamina and stamina regen, hence the locaiton) Myobirfil Stimulants - Low slot (Minmatar Scout is a melee suit, hence the move) PG Upgrade - High Slot (Shield suits get CPU upgrades as utility, and Armor suits get PG upgrades as utility, to make their respective tank stronger) Shield Rechargers and Energizers - Low Slot (Tank Support modules) Armor Repairers and Reactive Plates - High slots (Tank support modules) [tl;dr]: Increase CPU/PG on tank modules, more PG on armor and more CPU on shields Move utility modules to make sense On a final note, I believe these changes would solve dual tanking, and bring diversity to the game. I hope this would make the game more fun, as in the end, every suggestion I make is there to make the game more fun for everyone -Cat Merc, the overlord of all humans Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives. DUST514514
CYRAX SERVIUS Death Firm. Canis Eliminatus Operatives 1102	Posted - 2014.03.08 13:01:00 - [2] - Quote Many good points my fine feline friend. CEO Whiskey squad leader Invictus Maneo~"I Remain Unvanquished"~
Rynoceros Rise Of Old Dudes 3048	Posted - 2014.03.08 13:04:00 - [3] - Quote +1 for diversity. I GÖú Kittens.
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries General Tso's Alliance 7216	Posted - 2014.03.08 13:09:00 - [4] - Quote These stats I'm using are assuming that electronics and engineering are maxed out. Anyone thinks it should be for level III? Or not at all? These two skills make this really difficult to balance right. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives. DUST514514
BL4CKST4R WarRavens League of Infamy 1995	Posted - 2014.03.08 13:09:00 - [5] - Quote Those numbers are good but they are a little to high... 3 enhanced armor plates on a adv suit take most of the PG away. For the Federation!
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries General Tso's Alliance 7216	Posted - 2014.03.08 13:10:00 - [6] - Quote BL4CKST4R wrote: Those numbers are good but they are a little to high... 3 enhanced armor plates on a adv suit take most of the PG away. Look above for the post. I'm just not sure what would be a good balance point. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives. DUST514514
BL4CKST4R WarRavens League of Infamy 1995	Posted - 2014.03.08 13:11:00 - [7] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: These stats I'm using are assuming that electronics ane engineering are maxed out. Anyone thinks it should be for level III? Or not at all? These two skills make this really difficult to balance right. Without time to pump out some math! For the Federation!
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 10714	Posted - 2014.03.08 13:17:00 - [8] - Quote A solution I have always favoured is tweaking HP modules to take up large amounts of PG and utility modules to take up primarily CPU. That way, there's an effective limit on the amount of tanking you can do and it encourages the use of utility modules. You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake.
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries General Tso's Alliance 7216	Posted - 2014.03.08 13:19:00 - [9] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: A solution I have always favoured is tweaking HP modules to take up large amounts of PG and utility modules to take up primarily CPU. That way, there's an effective limit on the amount of tanking you can do and it encourages the use of utility modules. That is also a possibility. But I also like the idea of low slot utility modules taking more PG, while high slot utility modules take more CPU. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives. DUST514514
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries General Tso's Alliance 7217	Posted - 2014.03.08 13:32:00 - [10] - Quote BL4CKST4R wrote: Cat Merc wrote: These stats I'm using are assuming that electronics ane engineering are maxed out. Anyone thinks it should be for level III? Or not at all? These two skills make this really difficult to balance right. Without time to pump out some math! I put in an in between solution, assuming that the user has engineering and electronics to level III. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives. DUST514514

BL4CKST4R WarRavens League of Infamy 1995	Posted - 2014.03.08 13:35:00 - [11] - Quote CSE: 65/7 CAP: 33/13 ASE: 46/5 AAP: 23/9 BSE: 32/4 BAP: 16/6 Tweaking For the Federation!
Arx Ardashir Imperium Aeternum 656	Posted - 2014.03.08 13:37:00 - [12] - Quote I support a lot of this except for the moving of tank support modules like armor reppers and shield rechargers. I understand what you're trying to do, but I don't think that letting someone stack a lot of HP and then stack a lot of regen on top is good idea. It's up to the individual merc to choose between buffer and rep. More diverse and pertinent choices are needed though, to dissuade dual tanking. Dual tanking shouldn't be impossible, though, just an inefficient choice when compared to other support options. Now is the winter of our non-content. Ghosts Chance's hero for 3/1/14. A manu dei et tet rimon.
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries General Tso's Alliance 7217	Posted - 2014.03.08 13:37:00 - [13] - Quote BL4CKST4R wrote: CSE: 65/7 CAP: 33/13 ASE: 46/5 AAP: 23/9 BSE: 32/4 BAP: 16/6 Tweaking Could you explain your numbers? I had a method creating mine. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives. DUST514514
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries General Tso's Alliance 7219	Posted - 2014.03.08 13:39:00 - [14] - Quote Arx Ardashir wrote: I support a lot of this except for the moving of tank support modules like armor reppers and shield rechargers. I understand what you're trying to do, but I don't think that letting someone stack a lot of HP and then stack a lot of regen on top is good idea. It's up to the individual merc to choose between buffer and rep. More diverse and pertinent choices are needed though, to dissuade dual tanking. Dual tanking shouldn't be impossible, though, just an inefficient choice when compared to other support options. It will still be that way. Also, I see your point, so I will amend the moving of repairers, rechargers and energizers. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives. DUST514514
BL4CKST4R WarRavens League of Infamy 1995	Posted - 2014.03.08 13:41:00 - [15] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: BL4CKST4R wrote: CSE: 65/7 CAP: 33/13 ASE: 46/5 AAP: 23/9 BSE: 32/4 BAP: 16/6 Tweaking Could you explain your numbers? I had a method creating mine. Not done, posted so I don't lose them For the Federation!
Broonfondle Majikthies Dogs of War Gaming Zero-Day 926	Posted - 2014.03.08 13:44:00 - [16] - Quote Personally the existing extenders and plates already have huge penalties. I know I run a Min Assault so its different but I simply can't play well loaded up with complex plates and extenders My shields are naturally low so I almost always loose them between engagements - and 10s regen delay is a long time, and thats with nothing added. Because my shields go down my armour always takes a hit, so I need both the ability to withdraw quickly and also recover the lost armour fast. I tried a complex plate once and it was simply unplayable (for my style admittedly) as I couldn't get to cover fast enough - so I took more damage - so I had to spend longer waiting for the reps to catch up. Only at proto level can I realistically use complex extenders and avoid hitting the depleted regen time. But that feels too 'Caldari' plus still not very impressive, and its only 1 flux away from being rendered useless - so again I stick to reps and balancing plates / mobility. Why nerf the mods anyway? why not simply make the other mods better. (Although scan mods on scouts is pretty cool as is in the right situation). I'm also surprised CCP didn't increase the repair mods in line with the plate buff. As to moving the mods I don't see why they should. The suggested slot movements you've listed don't make any sense. Gal's have low slots. Cal's have high's but your abdicating moving them around so they can actually use less of them. And switching the 'support' mods to the opposite ends seems like an excust to both have your cake and eat it - 900 armour plus reps / 500 shields and still regen sooner and faster. "...where Bylothgar the Ill-postured was made King of the People With No Name But Decent Footwear"
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries General Tso's Alliance 7219	Posted - 2014.03.08 13:50:00 - [17] - Quote Broonfondle Majikthies wrote: Personally the existing extenders and plates already have huge penalties. I know I run a Min Assault so its different but I simply can't play well loaded up with complex plates and extenders My shields are naturally low so I almost always loose them between engagements - and 10s regen delay is a long time, and thats with nothing added. Because my shields go down my armour always takes a hit, so I need both the ability to withdraw quickly and also recover the lost armour fast. I tried a complex plate once and it was simply unplayable (for my style admittedly) as I couldn't get to cover fast enough - so I took more damage - so I had to spend longer waiting for the reps to catch up. Only at proto level can I realistically use complex extenders and avoid hitting the depleted regen time. But that feels too 'Caldari' plus still not very impressive, and its only 1 flux away from being rendered useless - so again I stick to reps and balancing plates / mobility. Why nerf the mods anyway? why not simply make the other mods better. (Although scan mods on scouts is pretty cool as is in the right situation). I'm also surprised CCP didn't increase the repair mods in line with the plate buff. As to moving the mods I don't see why they should. The suggested slot movements you've listed don't make any sense. Gal's have low slots. Cal's have high's but your abdicating moving them around so they can actually use less of them. And switching the 'support' mods to the opposite ends seems like an excust to both have your cake and eat it - 900 armour plus reps / 500 shields and still regen sooner and faster. Well, you might want to consider that Minmatar have the lowest CPU/PG. Gallente, Caldari and Amarr can all do quite a bit of dual tanking. The other mods are already quite powerful, making them better could very easily break stuff. It's just that brick tanking > everything. Give players the option to have more HP/Damage, and they will usually take it over anything else. As far as moving the modules, that's the point. An example from EVE: Gallente interceptors can use medium slots (same as our high slots) to fit webifiers, warp disruptors and afterburners. Given a choice between tank and utility modules, tank wins 99% of the time, unless the utility modules become game breaking. As far as rechargers and repairers, I already changed that. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives. DUST514514
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 659	Posted - 2014.03.08 14:02:00 - [18] - Quote Or.. simply give extenders a headshot penalty. The more you stack, the harder headshots hit you. 1-2 modules would not do much, say +2% incoming headshot damage, but 3 would become 4%, 4 would be around 12% 5 gives 25% etc.. would make you have to pick and choose your defense. If you can read this, it means you are reading. Unless you are skimming
BL4CKST4R WarRavens League of Infamy 1995	Posted - 2014.03.08 14:55:00 - [19] - Quote BL4CKST4R wrote: Cat Merc wrote: BL4CKST4R wrote: CSE: 65/7 CAP: 33/13 ASE: 46/5 AAP: 23/9 BSE: 32/4 BAP: 16/6 Tweaking Could you explain your numbers? I had a method creating mine. Not done, posted so I don't lose them CSE: 62/9 CAP: 38/13 ASE: 48/6 AAP: 25/10 BSE: 37/5 BAP: 20/7 These numbers were acquired by following a % multiplier vs the total CPU/PG pool, I believe it was 70/40 for Caldari Shields, and 40/70 for Gallente armor. Initially I built it from Complex level then went down, and after adjusting some numbers I scaled it from Basic and up. The non-faction fitting multiplier is 1.25x Basic-ADV and 1.5x ADV to Proto, the faction fitting multiplier is 1.3x Basic-ADV-Proto. This still allows dual tanking, in a way but it makes a dual tanked fitted very weak offensively. For example a Dual tanked suit cannot tank above the suits tier this will invalidate the fit. At proto level though this is not the case, and I do not intend that it is just a consequence of nothing being above proto. But without prof V a proto suit cannot fit a proto weapons, and may or may not be able to fit an ADV weapon, a proto suit HAS TO TANK WITH A SINGLE STYLE. These numbers are only meant for non prof suit, if you want it to scale with prof then multiply each number by a modifier equivalent to the Prof level. Scout C-1 174/33 DT: 131/22 Scout C/1 Series 244/46 DT: 194/38 Scout ck.0 330/74 DT: 324/62 For the Federation!
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 5423	Posted - 2014.03.08 15:35:00 - [20] - Quote I agree with your idea, but I am concerned about Minmatar Frames. They are supposed to be speed tankers, but the Kinetic Catalyzers are PG intensive. Lowering the PG on them would serve to make them underpowered even further. Reducing their PG would be an order. Also, the 3rd paragraph has a typo. I'm pretty sure people wouldn't want a strong stank. lolPLC [s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through -HAND

BL4CKST4R WarRavens League of Infamy 1996	Posted - 2014.03.08 15:39:00 - [21] - Quote Atiim wrote: I agree with your idea, but I am concerned about Minmatar Frames. They are supposed to be speed tankers, but the Kinetic Catalyzers are PG intensive. Lowering the PG on them would serve to make them underpowered even further. Reducing their PG would be an order. Also, the 3rd paragraph has a typo. I'm pretty sure people wouldn't want a strong stank. How would lowering PG on Kin Cats make Min frames, or the module UP. I don't know if you mean the PG of the suit or the module. For the Federation!
Marc Rime 306	Posted - 2014.03.08 15:55:00 - [22] - Quote Is the ability to dual tank really a problem? It's a fairly recent phenomenon despite being possible (and viable) since beta. To me that suggests the rise in popularity of dual tanks is a mere symptom of some other problem... For some reason people suddenly prioritise max EHP over everything else -- my guess it is because of the shortened TTK (and weapon damage preventing movement).
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries General Tso's Alliance 7225	Posted - 2014.03.08 15:56:00 - [23] - Quote Marc Rime wrote: Is the ability to dual tank really a problem? It's a fairly recent phenomenon despite being possible (and viable) since beta. To me that suggests the rise in popularity of dual tanks is a mere symptom of some other problem... For some reason people suddenly prioritise max EHP over everything else -- my guess it is because of the shortened TTK (and weapon damage preventing movement). Yes, it is a problem. Now that mercs have tasted the blood of eHP, they're going to consume it all the time. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives. DUST514514
BL4CKST4R WarRavens League of Infamy 1996	Posted - 2014.03.08 16:00:00 - [24] - Quote Marc Rime wrote: Is the ability to dual tank really a problem? It's a fairly recent phenomenon despite being possible (and viable) since beta. To me that suggests the rise in popularity of dual tanks is a mere symptom of some other problem... For some reason people suddenly prioritise max EHP over everything else -- my guess it is because of the shortened TTK (and weapon damage preventing movement). Dual tanking + an extended TTK is going to make the combat extremely slow. That and the fact weapons to more damage to single tank builds rather than dual tanked builds means that dual tankers have the longest TTK regardless. This not only destroys combat but destroy field variability. Remember the old Caldari Logistics and how annoying and difficult it was to kill, this is going to be Dust 1.8 except with every suit. For the Federation!
DootDoot Da Short Buss 205	Posted - 2014.03.08 16:35:00 - [25] - Quote CCP Iceland does this balance by having tank modules require a fair bit of resources to fit... WHere utility modules are cheap and fairly easy to fit. They would have to do with suits what has been asked for since closed beta... And tweak CPU and PG and modules so dual tanking has a downside.. It was that 10% damage was worth more then 33 shield HP... But the passive scanning modules are lacking in major ways... and dampening mechanics are gimped so someone without skills or modules can still detect you having their screen pointed in your general direction... And shields in general are lacking... Maybe after 1.8 it might improve... But giving CCP shanghai the benefit of the doubt? has long since expired through their actions never meeting their words. Shields where designed as a complete package.. and then CCP nerfed their relevance with AA and everyone being rewarded with super aim... even though the input and crosshair placement didn't warrant it. Having shields so you need extenders for health point increases, rechargers and energizers to increase your repair rate..... and Regulators to increase the delay before your shield boosts kick in was a complete designed package to be focused on shields on both high and low slots. The main advantage to shields was mobility and evasion.. AA Removes this as a factor. Armor isn't like this... it would fundamentally have to be changed so there would be a high slot to benefit armor without unbalancing the shield mechanics further. The main downfall to armor was the lack mobility an more stationary heads to aim at... AA removes this as a factor shield and armor heads are equally as easy to hit.
Meeko Fent Kirkinen Risk Control Caldari State 1939	Posted - 2014.03.08 16:45:00 - [26] - Quote Indeed. Some more mod changes would be needed, but this is definately the best way I have seen for dual tanking to be eliminated. Make is so suits not designed for armor to have a hard time fitting armor, and suits with armor have a difficult time fitting shields. But... What about the Amarr? They are innately designed to dual tank on the ground. Because you Wanted to be Something your Not.
DootDoot Da Short Buss 206	Posted - 2014.03.08 16:53:00 - [27] - Quote Meeko Fent wrote: Indeed. Some more mod changes would be needed, but this is definately the best way I have seen for dual tanking to be eliminated. Make is so suits not designed for armor to have a hard time fitting armor, and suits with armor have a difficult time fitting shields. But... What about the Amarr? They are innately designed to dual tank on the ground. I think the Amarr weaponry was supposed to have a Heat sink option in the damage mods... instead CCP didn't have the time and put the bonus on the suit on uprising launch... Seeing how most of the IRC and Skype.. CCP stalkers and CPM's run Amarr Assault suits they panicked when CCP talked about removing it.. and protested and pretended to be buddy buddy to get it back... This is the reason for a majority of short sighted tweaking and half fast changes... The same niche group offering advice to CCP to improve their own game play. IronWolfSaber with his tanks and tank buff... after 8 months of asking for exactly this... This is echoed through most of CPM... Stuff they use directly or hurts their individual gameplay gets the attention.
Joel II X Dah Gods O Bacon 1532	Posted - 2014.03.08 19:15:00 - [28] - Quote What if tank (armor, shield, speed, stealth) required more power out of the suit (PG) and enhancements (scan, damage, regen, melee, other) required more CPU? This probably a bad idea, but I had another one that I'll post here in a few hours. Just have to get my stuff together. Hopefully that one will be better than this one.
Jack Kittinger Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 174	Posted - 2014.03.08 20:06:00 - [29] - Quote I want to see this in main page, not f'n who is using what for 1.8 This here is the important tweak to be made in the next update Proud winner of the 'Templar BPO Raffle' by Castor Crave!! Lucky Number 29
Marc Rime 306	Posted - 2014.03.10 13:17:00 - [30] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Marc Rime wrote: Is the ability to dual tank really a problem? It's a fairly recent phenomenon despite being possible (and viable) since beta. To me that suggests the rise in popularity of dual tanks is a mere symptom of some other problem... For some reason people suddenly prioritise max EHP over everything else -- my guess it is because of the shortened TTK (and weapon damage preventing movement). Yes, it is a problem. Now that mercs have tasted the blood of eHP, they're going to consume it all the time. Yeah, guess you might have a point there... Then again, you only need enough EHP to not die - a huge buffer that is never touched unless you run into a massive cross-fire serves no purpose other than eating up module slots... although, without useful alternative modules...

Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries General Tso's Alliance 7307	Posted - 2014.03.10 15:47:00 - [31] - Quote BL4CKST4R wrote: Those numbers are good but they are a little to high... 3 enhanced armor plates on a adv suit take most of the PG away. Ah, I almost forgot! I didn't remember why when I replied to this comment, but I moved PG modules to high slots. What I wanted is that if you use an ADV suit, you will have to have a mix of STD and ADV tank modules. Or a PRO requires you to have a mix of PRO and ADV modules. But if you use a PG upgrade (or CPU upgrade in the case of shields), you can bump up the level of your modules at the cost of a slot. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives. DUST514514
Chunky Munkey Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 3367	Posted - 2014.03.10 16:30:00 - [32] - Quote I think the real issue is not lack of diversity in dual tanking, but lack of diversity in high slots. Kin cats & Armour reps would be far more suited to high slots, and would have helped address the damage mod "issue" that now sees us punished with even less diversity. No.
Justin Tymes Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 725	Posted - 2014.03.10 16:47:00 - [33] - Quote Chunky Munkey wrote: I think the real issue is not lack of diversity in dual tanking, but lack of diversity in high slots. Kin cats & Armour reps would be far more suited to high slots, and would have helped address the damage mod "issue" that now sees us punished with even less diversity. Just what I was about to post. When the only options are nerfed damage mods and shield extenders, of course people are going to Dual tank.
Tallen Ellecon KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 1572	Posted - 2014.03.10 17:33:00 - [34] - Quote BL4CKST4R wrote: Marc Rime wrote: Is the ability to dual tank really a problem? It's a fairly recent phenomenon despite being possible (and viable) since beta. To me that suggests the rise in popularity of dual tanks is a mere symptom of some other problem... For some reason people suddenly prioritise max EHP over everything else -- my guess it is because of the shortened TTK (and weapon damage preventing movement). Dual tanking + an extended TTK is going to make the combat extremely slow. That and the fact weapons to more damage to single tank builds rather than dual tanked builds means that dual tankers have the longest TTK regardless. This not only destroys combat but destroy field variability. Remember the old Caldari Logistics and how annoying and difficult it was to kill, this is going to be Dust 1.8 except with every suit. Every proto suit you mean. This is one reason why I liked the lower TTK, because it gave lower tiered suits a better chance, if they played smart. The brick tanked Caldari Logi has to be the most annoying thing to fight. Not impossible to kill, but ridiculous. Ion pistol in 1.8? Really, is that it? When is that? SoonGäó514 "No blue tags make Tallen go crazy.
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries General Tso's Alliance 7315	Posted - 2014.03.10 19:06:00 - [35] - Quote Chunky Munkey wrote: I think the real issue is not lack of diversity in dual tanking, but lack of diversity in high slots. Kin cats & Armour reps would be far more suited to high slots, and would have helped address the damage mod "issue" that now sees us punished with even less diversity. Edit: oh and one of the two capacity mods in the highs too. Haven't decided which one. Unless those modules are absurd, people will choose eHP any day. Besides, armor reps in the high slots? Do you seriously want me to run around in a suit with an absurd amount of armor AND reps that beat any shield suit? Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives. DUST514514
Kane Fyea 2625	Posted - 2014.03.10 19:11:00 - [36] - Quote Really one of the best ways to help stop dual tanking is for CCP to release more useful high slots that aren't related to shields. Also wouldn't this gimp the Amarr Assault seeing that it is meant for dual tanking?
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 5575	Posted - 2014.03.10 19:13:00 - [37] - Quote BL4CKST4R wrote: Atiim wrote: I agree with your idea, but I am concerned about Minmatar Frames. They are supposed to be speed tankers, but the Kinetic Catalyzers are PG intensive. Lowering the PG on them would serve to make them underpowered even further. Reducing their PG would be an order. Also, the 3rd paragraph has a typo. I'm pretty sure people wouldn't want a strong stank. How would lowering PG on Kin Cats make Min frames, or the module UP. I don't know if you mean the PG of the suit or the module. The Suit AV > HAV > INF > AV \| Not: HAV > AV GëÑ INF [s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through -HAND
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries General Tso's Alliance 7315	Posted - 2014.03.10 19:15:00 - [38] - Quote Kane Fyea wrote: Really one of the best ways to help stop dual tanking is for CCP to release more useful high slots that aren't related to shields. Also wouldn't this gimp the Amarr Assault seeing that it is meant for dual tanking? It's not meant for dual tanking. They just didn't get to rebalancing them. If you look at scouts and heavies, they're the exact opposite of dual tankers, they have the highest amount of armor and lowest amount of shields. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives. DUST514514
Kane Fyea 2625	Posted - 2014.03.10 19:22:00 - [39] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Kane Fyea wrote: Really one of the best ways to help stop dual tanking is for CCP to release more useful high slots that aren't related to shields. Also wouldn't this gimp the Amarr Assault seeing that it is meant for dual tanking? It's not meant for dual tanking. They just didn't get to rebalancing them. If you look at scouts and heavies, they're the exact opposite of dual tankers, they have the highest amount of armor and lowest amount of shields. Then what are they for then? In eve Amarrians are the huge armor tankers but the gallente decided to take that spot for dust. Are they supposed to armor tank? If so they are gimped compared to gallente suits since they can armor tank better while still being faster then Amarr suits. The only thing that the amarr suit has that makes it somewhat worthwhile is the reduction to heat build up for laser weapons.
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries General Tso's Alliance 7315	Posted - 2014.03.10 19:27:00 - [40] - Quote Kane Fyea wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Kane Fyea wrote: Really one of the best ways to help stop dual tanking is for CCP to release more useful high slots that aren't related to shields. Also wouldn't this gimp the Amarr Assault seeing that it is meant for dual tanking? It's not meant for dual tanking. They just didn't get to rebalancing them. If you look at scouts and heavies, they're the exact opposite of dual tankers, they have the highest amount of armor and lowest amount of shields. Then what are they for then? In eve Amarrians are the huge armor tankers but the gallente decided to take that spot for dust. Are they supposed to armor tank? If so they are gimped compared to gallente suits since they can armor tank better while still being faster then Amarr suits. The only thing that the amarr suit has that makes it somewhat worthwhile is the reduction to heat build up for laser weapons. How are they better armor tankers? They have around 50 armor HP over a Gallente. Gallente - Regenerators Amarr - eHP Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives. DUST514514

Kane Fyea 2625	Posted - 2014.03.10 19:45:00 - [41] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Kane Fyea wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Kane Fyea wrote: Really one of the best ways to help stop dual tanking is for CCP to release more useful high slots that aren't related to shields. Also wouldn't this gimp the Amarr Assault seeing that it is meant for dual tanking? It's not meant for dual tanking. They just didn't get to rebalancing them. If you look at scouts and heavies, they're the exact opposite of dual tankers, they have the highest amount of armor and lowest amount of shields. Then what are they for then? In eve Amarrians are the huge armor tankers but the gallente decided to take that spot for dust. Are they supposed to armor tank? If so they are gimped compared to gallente suits since they can armor tank better while still being faster then Amarr suits. The only thing that the amarr suit has that makes it somewhat worthwhile is the reduction to heat build up for laser weapons. How are they better armor tankers? They have around 50 armor HP over a Gallente. Gallente - Regenerators Amarr - eHP 3 lows vs 4 at proto (Gallente able to equip either more tank or more rep.) and Amarr suits are quite a bit slower (I believe over 1 m/s slower then gallente). Sure I might have a little bit more HP (Woo hoo probably not even 100 hp more then gallente) but I'm quite a bit slower then you and dont have as much reps as you. (Unless you decided to use something other then armor plates and repairers or you only used armor plates) Also lets not forget that Amarr Assaults have the least amount of module slots out of any assault suit. Also lets mention how most of my proto fits (BTW I have CPU and PG upgrades to level 4) still have to use a cpu or pg enhancer to be able to fit it effectively so not only do I have the least mod slots out of the assault suits but I have to waste one of them on a CPU/PG enhancer to fit my suit effectively. Also with what you're trying to do you pretty much make my 3 high slots pretty useless since I wouldn't be able to fit shields and armor effectively. (And I sure as hell wont use over nerfed damage mods. Seriously theres a reason why no one used enhanced damage mods)
Smooth Assassin Stardust Incorporation IMMORTAL REGIME 969	Posted - 2014.03.10 19:59:00 - [42] - Quote I guess... *Assassination is my thing.*
Texs Red DUST University Ivy League 283	Posted - 2014.03.10 20:10:00 - [43] - Quote Personally I don't see a problem with dual tanking being a thing but what is the problem is the lack of other options that have any significance. As things look for 1.8 it will look like that only thing useful for high slots will be shield modules as damage mods and melee mods are inferior. As a Gallente player though I would gladly give up my shield modules in exchange for putting dampeners or biotics in my high slots. This would allow me the ability to make other choices like a well dampened assault suit or a high sprint speed heavy. Dual tanking isn't the problem, the lack of meaningful options is. -Minmatar scouts are described as hand-to-hand specialists but would never use Myofibril Stimulants because it directly competes with their logical tank source. -Amarr are supposed to be endurance runners but Cardiac Regulators are low slots and they don't wan to give up their tank. -The Gallente make frequent use of afterburners in EVE and the Dust equal is Kinetic Catalyzers but they are low slots so they disrupt tank and have very difficult fitting requirements. -The Caldari scout would make the best use of Precision Enhancers but they interfere with shield tanking. -Passive scan modules in general aren't worth much to anyone other than a scout as base scan ranges are so short and the bonuses aren't enough to make up for it. -Codebreakers are Gallente tech but not Gallente would ever use them because they are low slots and yet its the Minmatar that gets suit bonuses to hacking. -Where is any Engineering modules? Currently we only have PG upgrades while Electronics has profile damps, precision enhancers, range amps, and codebreakers.
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries General Tso's Alliance 7317	Posted - 2014.03.10 20:20:00 - [44] - Quote Texs Red wrote: Personally I don't see a problem with dual tanking being a thing but what is the problem is the lack of other options that have any significance. As things look for 1.8 it will look like that only thing useful for high slots will be shield modules as damage mods and melee mods are inferior. As a Gallente player though I would gladly give up my shield modules in exchange for putting dampeners or biotics in my high slots. This would allow me the ability to make other choices like a well dampened assault suit or a high sprint speed heavy. Dual tanking isn't the problem, the lack of meaningful options is. -Minmatar scouts are described as hand-to-hand specialists but would never use Myofibril Stimulants because it directly competes with their logical tank source. -Amarr are supposed to be endurance runners but Cardiac Regulators are low slots and they don't wan to give up their tank. -The Gallente make frequent use of afterburners in EVE and the Dust equal is Kinetic Catalyzers but they are low slots so they disrupt tank and have very difficult fitting requirements. -The Caldari scout would make the best use of Precision Enhancers but they interfere with shield tanking. -Passive scan modules in general aren't worth much to anyone other than a scout as base scan ranges are so short and the bonuses aren't enough to make up for it. -Codebreakers are Gallente tech but not Gallente would ever use them because they are low slots and yet its the Minmatar that gets suit bonuses to hacking. -Where is any Engineering modules? Currently we only have PG upgrades while Electronics has profile damps, precision enhancers, range amps, and codebreakers. It is a problem. People WILL take eHP over any other option, unless the eHP path is simply stupid and gimps them. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives. DUST514514
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries General Tso's Alliance 7317	Posted - 2014.03.10 20:23:00 - [45] - Quote Kane Fyea wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Kane Fyea wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Kane Fyea wrote: Really one of the best ways to help stop dual tanking is for CCP to release more useful high slots that aren't related to shields. Also wouldn't this gimp the Amarr Assault seeing that it is meant for dual tanking? It's not meant for dual tanking. They just didn't get to rebalancing them. If you look at scouts and heavies, they're the exact opposite of dual tankers, they have the highest amount of armor and lowest amount of shields. Then what are they for then? In eve Amarrians are the huge armor tankers but the gallente decided to take that spot for dust. Are they supposed to armor tank? If so they are gimped compared to gallente suits since they can armor tank better while still being faster then Amarr suits. The only thing that the amarr suit has that makes it somewhat worthwhile is the reduction to heat build up for laser weapons. How are they better armor tankers? They have around 50 armor HP over a Gallente. Gallente - Regenerators Amarr - eHP 3 lows vs 4 at proto (Gallente able to equip either more tank or more rep.) and Amarr suits are quite a bit slower (I believe over 1 m/s slower then gallente). Sure I might have a little bit more HP (Woo hoo probably not even 100 hp more then gallente) but I'm quite a bit slower then you and dont have as much reps as you. (Unless you decided to use something other then armor plates and repairers or you only used armor plates) Also lets not forget that Amarr Assaults have the least amount of module slots out of any assault suit. Also lets mention how most of my proto fits (BTW I have CPU and PG upgrades to level 4) still have to use a cpu or pg enhancer to be able to fit it effectively so not only do I have the least mod slots out of the assault suits but I have to waste one of them on a CPU/PG enhancer to fit my suit effectively. Also with what you're trying to do you pretty much make my 3 high slots pretty useless since I wouldn't be able to fit shields and armor effectively. (And I sure as hell wont use over nerfed damage mods. Seriously theres a reason why no one used enhanced damage mods) Slots - Same as Gallente on scout (2/4) No, it's not 1m/s, it's closer to 0.3m/s 1-3hp/s is hardly going to make a difference. (MUCH less than 100 HP would) The Assault slots went unchanged because CCP didn't touch those, again, look at the heavies and scouts, they have equal slots with the other races. And if you're complaining about CPU/PG on an Amarr suit, then you're doing it wrong. I'm literally using everything proto on my Amarr Assault and still have fitting room left. Viziam Scrambler Rifle, Viziam Scrambler Pistol, Gauged Hives, Core Locus, etc'. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives. DUST514514
The Robot Devil Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1913	Posted - 2014.03.10 21:04:00 - [46] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: And if you're complaining about CPU/PG on an Amarr suit, then you're doing it wrong. I'm literally using everything proto on my Amarr Assault and still have fitting room left. Viziam Scrambler Rifle, Viziam Scrambler Pistol, Gauged Hives, Core Locus, etc'. Any mod that gives CPU/GP is usually a bad sign. If you have to use two just to fit something then you are wasting your ISK. "You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus." Raoul Duke
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries General Tso's Alliance 7317	Posted - 2014.03.10 21:06:00 - [47] - Quote The Robot Devil wrote: Cat Merc wrote: And if you're complaining about CPU/PG on an Amarr suit, then you're doing it wrong. I'm literally using everything proto on my Amarr Assault and still have fitting room left. Viziam Scrambler Rifle, Viziam Scrambler Pistol, Gauged Hives, Core Locus, etc'. Any mod that gives CPU/GP is usually a bad sign. If you have to use two just to fit something then you are wasting your ISK. None of those on my Amarr Assault. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives. DUST514514
Jaysyn Larrisen OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 796	Posted - 2014.03.10 21:10:00 - [48] - Quote Cat...question for you. Should there be some rebalancing of where modules fit in terms of code breakers, scans, damps, ext? Codebreaker mods in the low slot confuse me...i would think it would be a CPU heavy requirement as with profile damps. The passive scan mods should be in the low slots as they would pull more power to the systems, correct? "Endless money forms the sinews of War." - Cicero
Bones McGavins TacoCat Industries 556	Posted - 2014.03.10 21:12:00 - [49] - Quote Couldnt one type of tank simply negatively impact the other? Extenders 1%,2%,3% increased armor damage to any weapon with affinity to armor Reactive/Scale 1%,2%,3% increased shield damage to any weapon with affinity to shields. Plates 2%,3%,5% increased shield damage to any weapon with affinity to shields.
Kierkegaard Soren Forsaken Immortals Top Men. 252	Posted - 2014.03.10 21:14:00 - [50] - Quote Great thread, with some very salient points and solutions. I'd like to add my own two pennies to the discussion and point out that in EvE you CAN fit a perfectly acceptable dual tank on your ship, and it will make you very tough indeed. However, the trade off for this is that it will require every module slot you have available to pull off, and in doing so you limit your weapon effectiveness by not installing damage mods and the equally important damage application mods (such as range and accuracy enhances, which Dust sorely needs in some format or other), and it completely gimps your ability to pvp because you have zero EWAR fitted; you cannot pin your opponent down with any dirty tricks. Can we transplant that philosophy into Dust? Who knows. I'd certainly like to see a shift towards suits fitting for EWAR, such as target painters, better passive scanners, HUD hammers and the like as a mainstream fitting concept, and something thst you would have to genuinely sacrifice in order to fully brick tank. As it stands, 1.8 is going to be about ehp and nothing else, and that's going to get very stale very quickly. Dedicated Commando. "He who can destroy a thing, controls a thing." -Paul Atreides.

Jastad D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 608	Posted - 2014.03.10 21:16:00 - [51] - Quote And if Shield & armor plate have a drawback on the other type? The energizer show that is possibile with the current engine ( this must be take in account ) Random numbers PRO SHield EXT -30 % on plate PRO Plate -20% Extender something like that Amarr SCR user. Believe in the FORGE, young padawans C'èSoloDoloreSuCharlie
ZDub 303 TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback 2346	Posted - 2014.03.10 21:20:00 - [52] - Quote I like this idea a lot, esp when coupled with putting PG mods in high slots. Just as long as basic/adv shield extenders get a buff to reflect their increased fitting cost. They are so useless atm its really kind of sad :/
RydogV Shadow Company HQ Lokun Listamenn 679	Posted - 2014.03.10 21:27:00 - [53] - Quote Here is hoping reduced TTK will give folks the courage to mix it up a bit. The fact that other modules are not very 'sexy' doesn't help. The one thing I find strange about Dust is the way profile signature seems to be this big inconsistent and . For instance, I can play peek-a-boo with another infantry player as we both dance around a large crate or something. My passive scanning skills are decent and even though I cannot 'see' the other character, I can see his chevron and the direction he is moving. Now take the same situation but substitute the infantry player with a HAV. Here is this monstrous vehicle roughly the same distance as I hide behind some cover. Not only can I not 'see' any indication of the vehicle on the other side of the obstacle, it doesn't even show up on my mini map. It's ludicrous. Finally, why don't players show up on a map when they are firing a weapon? Shouldn't the sound or signature from the weapon briefly reveal their position? Granted the game does not have silencers yet and maybe when they do, non-silenced weapons will have that kind of penalty. But in the meantime there is a lot of head scratching. It seems there are lots of interesting modules that could be introduced to help players fine tune their particular play style. It certainly would bring some diversity to the game. I guess it is just one more thing we have to wait for.
Verek Locusti Storm Ventures For All Mankind 14	Posted - 2014.03.11 19:36:00 - [54] - Quote Texs Red wrote: Dual tanking isn't the problem, the lack of meaningful options is. -Minmatar scouts are described as hand-to-hand specialists but would never use Myofibril Stimulants because it directly competes with their logical tank source. -Amarr are supposed to be endurance runners but Cardiac Regulators are low slots and they don't wan to give up their tank. -The Gallente make frequent use of afterburners in EVE and the Dust equal is Kinetic Catalyzers but they are low slots so they disrupt tank and have very difficult fitting requirements. -The Caldari scout would make the best use of Precision Enhancers but they interfere with shield tanking. -Passive scan modules in general aren't worth much to anyone other than a scout as base scan ranges are so short and the bonuses aren't enough to make up for it. -Codebreakers are Gallente tech but not Gallente would ever use them because they are low slots and yet its the Minmatar that gets suit bonuses to hacking. -Where is any Engineering modules? Currently we only have PG upgrades while Electronics has profile damps, precision enhancers, range amps, and codebreakers. -I'd rather keep them in my high slots. If I'm playing my role well I'm approaching people undetected (not being shot), getting kills before red dots can retaliate (not being shot), and hauling ass if more opposition shows up (not being shot...too much). Having the extra shields would be useful, but I see it as a choice on scouts (especially with higher ttk and cloaks most likely, hopefully, letting us to occasionally avoid dying) between tank for a more aggressive play style or one that's made more for utility/versatility than pure attack. -Agree -Don't agree, don't play EVE but it seems to me kinetic catalyzers are in low slots precisely to disrupt tank, the speed penalty is meant to be there, you have to decide if you want reps or plates, and if you want plates how much speed you're willing to give up, having kincats in high slots would essentially eliminate the speed penalty for armor tankers (and possibly make them as fast or faster than shield tankers with less eHP). -Same as above, seems made to force a choice between utility and tank, which is a problem right now because of how extra eHP overshadows many utility modules (and the utility modules often not being effective enough for their cost vs tank). -Agree -Seems right, gallente can fit more codebreakers than the minmatar can. As for the bonus, shrug we've still got a bonus for caldari weapons, when we get more equipment in the game I assume our bonuses will be changed to favor whatever minmatar tech we get. -EWAR/active modules somewhere down the roadmap?
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries General Tso's Alliance 7332	Posted - 2014.03.11 19:41:00 - [55] - Quote Verek Locusti wrote: Texs Red wrote: Dual tanking isn't the problem, the lack of meaningful options is. -Minmatar scouts are described as hand-to-hand specialists but would never use Myofibril Stimulants because it directly competes with their logical tank source. -Amarr are supposed to be endurance runners but Cardiac Regulators are low slots and they don't wan to give up their tank. -The Gallente make frequent use of afterburners in EVE and the Dust equal is Kinetic Catalyzers but they are low slots so they disrupt tank and have very difficult fitting requirements. -The Caldari scout would make the best use of Precision Enhancers but they interfere with shield tanking. -Passive scan modules in general aren't worth much to anyone other than a scout as base scan ranges are so short and the bonuses aren't enough to make up for it. -Codebreakers are Gallente tech but not Gallente would ever use them because they are low slots and yet its the Minmatar that gets suit bonuses to hacking. -Where is any Engineering modules? Currently we only have PG upgrades while Electronics has profile damps, precision enhancers, range amps, and codebreakers. -I'd rather keep them in my high slots. If I'm playing my role well I'm approaching people undetected (not being shot), getting kills before red dots can retaliate (not being shot), and hauling ass if more opposition shows up (not being shot...too much). Having the extra shields would be useful, but I see it as a choice on scouts (especially with higher ttk and cloaks most likely, hopefully, letting us to occasionally avoid dying) between tank for a more aggressive play style or one that's made more for utility/versatility than pure attack. -Agree -Don't agree, don't play EVE but it seems to me kinetic catalyzers are in low slots precisely to disrupt tank, the speed penalty is meant to be there, you have to decide if you want reps or plates, and if you want plates how much speed you're willing to give up, having kincats in high slots would essentially eliminate the speed penalty for armor tankers (and possibly make them as fast or faster than shield tankers with less eHP). -Same as above, seems made to force a choice between utility and tank, which is a problem right now because of how extra eHP overshadows many utility modules (and the utility modules often not being effective enough for their cost vs tank). -Agree -Seems right, gallente can fit more codebreakers than the minmatar can. As for the bonus, shrug we've still got a bonus for caldari weapons, when we get more equipment in the game I assume our bonuses will be changed to favor whatever minmatar tech we get. -EWAR/active modules somewhere down the roadmap? While I don't necessarily agree with kin cats moving to high slots (and I have considered this while making the thread), you have to remember that kin cats only increase the sprint speed, not movement speed or strafe speed. Now consider that plates have double the penalty on strafe than what is displayed, and you can see how it only helps, but doesn't negate the speed penalty. Oh and in EVE it works the same too, plates reduce speed but afterburners increase them. Gallente ships also tend to be the second fastest after the Minmatar, unlike now where they're matching with Caldari. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives. DUST514514
Verek Locusti Storm Ventures For All Mankind 14	Posted - 2014.03.11 19:50:00 - [56] - Quote RydogV wrote: Here is hoping reduced TTK will give folks the courage to mix it up a bit. The fact that other modules are not very 'sexy' doesn't help. The one thing I find strange about Dust is the way profile signature seems to be this big inconsistent and . For instance, I can play peek-a-boo with another infantry player as we both dance around a large crate or something. My passive scanning skills are decent and even though I cannot 'see' the other character, I can see his chevron and the direction he is moving. Now take the same situation but substitute the infantry player with a HAV. Here is this monstrous vehicle roughly the same distance as I hide behind some cover. Not only can I not 'see' any indication of the vehicle on the other side of the obstacle, it doesn't even show up on my mini map. It's ludicrous. Maybe have 2 different passive scans, suit & vehicle. Suit's what we have now, vehicle would have a much larger range and much worse precision (maybe allowing vehicles fit with stealth modules/stealth focused vehicles -if we get them- to still 'sneak' around the map). Vehicles could have this as well.
BL4CKST4R WarRavens League of Infamy 2011	Posted - 2014.03.11 19:55:00 - [57] - Quote High Slot modules: Shield extenders/Shield extender Medium Shield energizer/Shield flux coil Low Shield rechargers/Shield power relay Low Damage modifiers/Multiple names Low Myofibril stimulants/Damage category Low Precision enhancers/Target Painter Medium Low slot modules: Armor plates/Armor plates low Armor repairers/Armor repairers low Cardiac regulators/??? High maybe? CPU/PG upgrades/ Co-processor/Power diagnostics Low Kinetic catalyzes/ Microwarpdrive Medium Range amplifiers/Signal amplifier low -and- Signal booster medium Profile dampener/Remote sensor dampener Medium Shield regulators/ ??? High maybe? Medium EVE = Dust514 High The Low slot - High slot imbalance is pretty bad specially since the majority of high slot modules belong in the lows, or would. Equally there are some necessary modules that are missing like resistance modules, and EWAR modules. In EVE medium slots are mostly for EWAR modules and shield tanking, while Low slot modules are Armor tanking, damage control, and increasing damage output. Without Capacitor there is also a whole line of high slot modules invalidated, so we would need some new modules to fix the balance. Keep in mind that placing some of these modules into their proper slots in Dust could be game breaking. It is to my assumption that the module placement is like so since at the beginning of the game the only suits were shield tanked suits, aside from the Amarr heavy and partly the scout. For the Federation!
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 9906	Posted - 2014.03.11 22:12:00 - [58] - Quote I support this. Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 2178	Posted - 2014.03.11 22:41:00 - [59] - Quote Thats the way to do it. Caldari High CPU, Low PG Gallante Low CPU, High PG Amarr Mid CPU, High PG Minmatar High CPU, Mid PG Unless your a Computer Scientist don't tell me how Game Mechanics Work. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl 2.
Denn Maell PIanet Express Canis Eliminatus Operatives 174	Posted - 2014.03.12 02:31:00 - [60] - Quote Not sure if this was said earlier in the thread but here is something to consider. In Eve Shield Extenders (I believe) have always increased Scan Profile, making it easier to target. What if we gave Shields a Profile penalty to make them pop up on scans slightly quicker? This would mean that while you could stack plates/extenders and have a high eHP, you'd be easier to detect and slower to move. The most OP weapon on the Dust Battle Field: One good logi, one rep tool, and a heavy.

KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 10011	Posted - 2014.03.12 22:51:00 - [61] - Quote Bump for fitting variety Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 10011	Posted - 2014.03.18 14:04:00 - [62] - Quote Womp womp womp Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries 7712	Posted - 2014.03.24 15:16:00 - [63] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Womp womp womp meow? Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives. DUST514514


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