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Jade Dragonis
GRIM MARCH D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
317
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Posted - 2014.03.08 10:39:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hi all,
Just wondering what you will be looking for in the CPM1 Candidate your going to vote for?
Folloe me on Youtube
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Sana Rayya
WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL Top Men.
951
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Posted - 2014.03.08 10:44:00 -
[2] - Quote
How much the player still plays, how long they have been playing for, and whether they are actually skilled at DUST or not.
I see a lot of current CPMs that have fewer than 1 mil lifetime warpoints and under 2.0 KDRs, then wonder how they could have any grasp of what needs changing in DUST when they clearly spend 90% of their free time trolling the forums and 10% in game. |
jenza aranda
BetaMax.
2949
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Posted - 2014.03.08 10:45:00 -
[3] - Quote
People who are already doing the job more or less and already contributing to the benefit of the community.
Dust 514 101 // Dust 514 Wiki
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Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries General Tso's Alliance
7207
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Posted - 2014.03.08 10:46:00 -
[4] - Quote
Any cat person.
Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
DUST514514
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Jade Dragonis
GRIM MARCH D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
317
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Posted - 2014.03.08 10:51:00 -
[5] - Quote
jenza aranda wrote:People who are already doing the job more or less and already contributing to the benefit of the community.
How much input did the CPM0 have in the white paper?
Folloe me on Youtube
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KGB Sleep
822
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Posted - 2014.03.08 11:02:00 -
[6] - Quote
Someone who plays the game.
A lot of these "contributing entities" DON'T PLAY they just theorycraft.
Because beer, that's why.
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
8010
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Posted - 2014.03.08 11:05:00 -
[7] - Quote
To me its nothing more than a clear cut purpose in deciding to run for CPM.
What they want to achieve not just for us as players but also for themselves.
I wouldn't even consider a CPM who thinks they are better than the player base because of something so arbitrary as KDR, WP, or Time Played.
To me its resolve, a person who can go the distance and is willing to communicate with the rest of the community as well as the Devs to create what Dust 514 should be.
Its something that cannot be exclusively be achieved by PC corp players (half of them arrogant pricks or self serving narcissists), or by FW players, or by EVE players, or by lower ranked corp players. I also don't think you have to have fancy numbers etc to be qualified to run as a CPM. Vision is enough.
I suppose there is a very specific type of person who could last the year long term of CPM 1 (I am entirely excluding CPM0 from this comment as I have had so little contact with them besides Hans who was willing to come to the community for feed back) and not only that but a specific kind of person who can be willing to come down from their CPM position to work with the player base.
"War is not hell, far from it. War is beautiful. War is divine."
- Grand Admiral Mekioth Sarum
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Vulcanus Lightbringer
Eyniletti Rangers Minmatar Republic
319
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Posted - 2014.03.08 11:27:00 -
[8] - Quote
What I want more than anything for CPM1 is someone who can persuade CCP to open the development process more, and let us know earlier and in more detail what changes are coming and let the community dissect changes before they're committed to being released. |
jenza aranda
BetaMax.
2951
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Posted - 2014.03.08 12:21:00 -
[9] - Quote
Jade Dragonis wrote:jenza aranda wrote:People who are already doing the job more or less and already contributing to the benefit of the community. How much input did the CPM0 have in the white paper? a lot.
Dust 514 101 // Dust 514 Wiki
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Jade Dragonis
GRIM MARCH D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
318
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Posted - 2014.03.08 12:23:00 -
[10] - Quote
jenza aranda wrote:Jade Dragonis wrote:jenza aranda wrote:People who are already doing the job more or less and already contributing to the benefit of the community. How much input did the CPM0 have in the white paper? a lot.
Thanks. Didn't want to make a false statement.
Folloe me on Youtube
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Zeylon Rho
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
3772
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Posted - 2014.03.08 12:27:00 -
[11] - Quote
Vulcanus Lightbringer wrote:What I want more than anything for CPM1 is someone who can persuade CCP to open the development process more, and let us know earlier and in more detail what changes are coming and let the community dissect changes before they're committed to being released.
Whatever you think of CPM0, I think they already made efforts to do that. A CPM candidate telling us they'll "convince CCP" of anything is probably a non-starter qualification-wise.
Dren and Templar equipment stats, wrong since release.
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jenza aranda
BetaMax.
2952
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Posted - 2014.03.08 12:29:00 -
[12] - Quote
KGB Sleep wrote:Someone who plays the game.
A lot of these "contributing entities" DON'T PLAY they just theorycraft. if you think being on the CPM means playing a lot of dust you are greatly mistaken. A lot of the more important work is almost entirely theorycrafting as the stuff hasnt been made yet.
Dust 514 101 // Dust 514 Wiki
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DeeJay One
Guardian Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY
213
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Posted - 2014.03.08 12:30:00 -
[13] - Quote
Sana Rayya wrote: I see a lot of current CPMs that have fewer than 1 mil lifetime warpoints and under 2.0 KDRs, then wonder how they could have any grasp of what needs changing in DUST when they clearly spend 90% of their free time trolling the forums and 10% in game.
Frankly being a CPM/CSM eats up your game time a lot, as it is usually like taking a half time job in addition to your current job (and sometimes it's a full time job even). That, and the fact that appearing in any game with your main toon usually ends up with everyone shooting at the CPM. Also KDR is a crap metric in team based games (I, for one, had the most fun playing in squads with my repair tools on constantly ;) Oh, and if their time was set up the other way around, mainly 90% in game, 10% in the forums, all would whine, that the CPM isn't on the forums - you can't please anyone. |
The Attorney General
2418
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Posted - 2014.03.08 12:36:00 -
[14] - Quote
I'll vote for someone who is most likely to break the NDA and give us that peak under the hood we all need but that CCP doesn't want to give out.
That and someone who isn't afraid to tell CCP to stop being muppets and learn to iterate.
Mr. Hybrid Vayu.
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DeeJay One
Guardian Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY
213
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Posted - 2014.03.08 12:55:00 -
[15] - Quote
The Attorney General wrote:I'll vote for someone who is most likely to break the NDA and give us that peak under the hood we all need but that CCP doesn't want to give out.
That and someone who isn't afraid to tell CCP to stop being muppets and learn to iterate. I'll doubt if he manages to beat the shortest CPM/CSM membership ever by Mittens ;) |
Rynoceros
Rise Of Old Dudes
3048
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Posted - 2014.03.08 12:58:00 -
[16] - Quote
The Attorney General wrote:I'll vote for someone who is most likely to break the NDA and give us that peak under the hood we all need but that CCP doesn't want to give out.
That and someone who isn't afraid to tell CCP to stop being muppets and learn to iterate. This.
I GÖú Kittens.
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crazy space 1
GunFall Mobilization
2194
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Posted - 2014.03.08 12:59:00 -
[17] - Quote
Me |
Vulcanus Lightbringer
Eyniletti Rangers Minmatar Republic
320
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Posted - 2014.03.08 12:59:00 -
[18] - Quote
Zeylon Rho wrote:Vulcanus Lightbringer wrote:What I want more than anything for CPM1 is someone who can persuade CCP to open the development process more, and let us know earlier and in more detail what changes are coming and let the community dissect changes before they're committed to being released. Whatever you think of CPM0, I think they already made efforts to do that. A CPM candidate telling us they'll "convince CCP" of anything is probably a non-starter qualification-wise.
Of course, but I want the community to have more input still. Like when the new dropsuit stats were first being mentioned and CCP's idea was to remove the sidearm for scouts in exchange for an additional equipment slot. The community said "bad idea", and CCP listened. I want more of that, especially when it comes to balancing weapons and gear.
Fundamentally, I just want CCP to stop being so secretive. Take the release of 1.8 as an example, the amount of times Logibro or Saberwing has denied to give us a specific date is just ridiculous. It's either the 18th or the 25th if they're still on schedule, yet they're treating it like all the fresh water in the world will disappear if they gave us a date. |
Jade Dragonis
GRIM MARCH D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
319
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Posted - 2014.03.08 13:57:00 -
[19] - Quote
The Attorney General wrote:I'll vote for someone who is most likely to break the NDA and give us that peak under the hood we all need but that CCP doesn't want to give out.
That and someone who isn't afraid to tell CCP to stop being muppets and learn to iterate.
Well Im sure there will be some that say that they are willing to break the NDA. Although once CCP's lawyers get in touch they will back down because NDA's are binding contracts and caan lead to very expensive lawsuits. But if someone is that brave then we will see what we see.
Folloe me on Youtube
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jenza aranda
BetaMax.
2955
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Posted - 2014.03.08 18:06:00 -
[20] - Quote
Jade Dragonis wrote:The Attorney General wrote:I'll vote for someone who is most likely to break the NDA and give us that peak under the hood we all need but that CCP doesn't want to give out.
That and someone who isn't afraid to tell CCP to stop being muppets and learn to iterate. Well Im sure there will be some that say that they are willing to break the NDA. Although once CCP's lawyers get in touch they will back down because NDA's are binding contracts and caan lead to very expensive lawsuits. But if someone is that brave then we will see what we see. especially as we are required to disclose our real name, address and passport...
Dust 514 101 // Dust 514 Wiki
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Proto Annihilator
Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire
23
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Posted - 2014.03.08 18:17:00 -
[21] - Quote
I doubt they serve any real purpose. If the SP refund does not go through it will confirm that for me. Representing us has to be a hard job because everyone cries about everything. The changes CCP makes seem rooted in some far off ideal that we just don't see in-game. I do not feel represented beyond what I do myself on the forums and with support tickets.
I would be looking for a representative that has some transparency. Not that they can show us the results of their efforts. They could however show us the means they are using to represent us and participate more in the community. If this is a sham at least we could see the wasted effort and that would earn my respect. |
jenza aranda
BetaMax.
2960
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Posted - 2014.03.08 18:30:00 -
[22] - Quote
Proto Annihilator wrote:I doubt they serve any real purpose. If the SP refund does not go through it will confirm that for me. Representing us has to be a hard job because everyone cries about everything. The changes CCP makes seem rooted in some far off ideal that we just don't see in-game. I do not feel represented beyond what I do myself on the forums and with support tickets.
I would be looking for a representative that has some transparency. Not that they can show us the results of their efforts. They could however show us the means they are using to represent us and participate more in the community. If this is a sham at least we could see the wasted effort and that would earn my respect. you know nothing Jon Snow.
Dust 514 101 // Dust 514 Wiki
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Proto Annihilator
Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire
23
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Posted - 2014.03.08 18:32:00 -
[23] - Quote
jenza aranda wrote:Proto Annihilator wrote:I doubt they serve any real purpose. If the SP refund does not go through it will confirm that for me. Representing us has to be a hard job because everyone cries about everything. The changes CCP makes seem rooted in some far off ideal that we just don't see in-game. I do not feel represented beyond what I do myself on the forums and with support tickets.
I would be looking for a representative that has some transparency. Not that they can show us the results of their efforts. They could however show us the means they are using to represent us and participate more in the community. If this is a sham at least we could see the wasted effort and that would earn my respect. you know nothing Jon Snow.
I know what I want. Its not you. If only you had a nickle for everytime you've heard that, eh jenza. |
Sgt Kirk
Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance
4963
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Posted - 2014.03.08 18:36:00 -
[24] - Quote
Primary Requirements:
*Doesn't put his/her ideas higher over the communities.
*Respectful to the community for the most part. - The only time I want them being an ******* or a smart ass is when they were provoked first. After that, fair game. Too many idiots on these forums anyway.
*Communicates with the player base - Doesn't even have to be about CPM things just be active.
*Actually play the game - I know that CPM doesn't require much out of playing the game but this ties more into the previous point.
*Be familiar with the game - ties into the last two post.
*Have EVE/lore knowledge
*Have common sense - A need for any figure.
*Know what an FPS players want while knowing when to stay away from generic fps simplification.
Did I mention one should play the game?
Secondary Requirements:
*Be Gallente - What better race to have in such a high influential position than a True Gallentean?
*Have a sense of Humor. - Some of these people are like the digital manifestation of Hank Hill on these forums.
1st Official Role Playing Gallente Asshole -Title Awarded by True Adamance
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G Torq
ALTA B2O
466
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Posted - 2014.03.08 18:38:00 -
[25] - Quote
jenza aranda wrote:Proto Annihilator wrote:I doubt they serve any real purpose. If the SP refund does not go through it will confirm that for me. Representing us has to be a hard job because everyone cries about everything. The changes CCP makes seem rooted in some far off ideal that we just don't see in-game. I do not feel represented beyond what I do myself on the forums and with support tickets.
I would be looking for a representative that has some transparency. Not that they can show us the results of their efforts. They could however show us the means they are using to represent us and participate more in the community. If this is a sham at least we could see the wasted effort and that would earn my respect. you know nothing Jon Snow. Trying to tell him to do that thing with his tongue again? (yeah, TV-series ref, instead of the books - shoot me)
Team Fairy DUST
HTTP://Dust.Thang.DK/ - DUST514 Fitting Tool based on DUST SDE
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Joseph Ridgeson
WarRavens League of Infamy
689
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Posted - 2014.03.08 18:42:00 -
[26] - Quote
It is an odd question because we, as the community, don't really get to see the CPM's input.
For all we know, the CSM/CPM could entirely be a marketing thing for CCP to say to the community/journalists "we care about our community and player base extensively. We even have a player elected committee to give input on the game from the eyes of a player rather than a developer and to act as more natural liaisons between CCP and the players than an employee would be." Yes, that sounds freaking amazing but we can't look into the gears of CCP and see where the CPM/CSM's influence has spread for the betterment of the players. I am not saying that it is true, only that it is hard to see the influence of out elected committees. CPM can say "we had a lot of influence in X" but for all anyone knows they have never been able to push CCP in a way for the betterment of the players, which is the exact reason behind there being an elected body.
And I know it would be impossible to really show "here is what the CPM pushed through because the community wanted it" rather than "here is what CCP did for their own reasons." It is a no-win scenario.
For me, I am less interested in someone who is "good at the game" and more so someone who understands the game and plays it. I would want someone who isn't a jerk and conducts themselves like a human being. Some of the CSM's in EVE have been the biggest butt goblins to every type on a keyboard and loomed over the community in a "do YOU have a seat on the council? You don't know what you are talking about." That cannot be allowed to happen in DUST.
What I want is someone that isn't a jerk, is well reasoned in their beliefs, is willing to change their opinion given evidence, will not resist something that they see as a 'good thing for the game' because it won't be good for their play style, plays the game actively, and is willing to inform the community as much as they can without breaking NDA. I wouldn't want someone who would break the NDA on the CPM because it could push CCP away from having a CPM and does damage. I am sure any CPM member has heard things that would set the forums afire that are now never happening.
Imagine if someone leaked an idea that was in it's early thought phase; in CCP's case, probably written on a cocktail napkin and not really given too much thought on just yet. "We were thinking about removing AV and Vehicles from the game." If that got released before it was anything other than a drunken thought rather than an actual plan, players would get upset probably over nothing.
Perhaps a CPM member could answer this: how many things have you heard suggested for the game that almost immediately got thrown on the fire of bad ideas? How many of those ideas would get players angry/happy when they were announced/discarded? |
Vrain Matari
Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic
1753
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Posted - 2014.03.08 19:39:00 -
[27] - Quote
DeeJay One wrote:Sana Rayya wrote: I see a lot of current CPMs that have fewer than 1 mil lifetime warpoints and under 2.0 KDRs, then wonder how they could have any grasp of what needs changing in DUST when they clearly spend 90% of their free time trolling the forums and 10% in game.
Frankly being a CPM/CSM eats up your game time a lot, as it is usually like taking a half time job in addition to your current job (and sometimes it's a full time job even). That, and the fact that appearing in any game with your main toon usually ends up with everyone shooting at the CPM. Also KDR is a crap metric in team based games (I, for one, had the most fun playing in squads with my repair tools on constantly ;) Oh, and if their time was set up the other way around, mainly 90% in game, 10% in the forums, all would whine, that the CPM isn't on the forums - you can't please anyone. There are many desirable qualities we'd want to see in a CPM council member, but i'd like to use your post to concentrate on strictly the value of players' in-game experience in vetting candidates.
I agree with you DeeJay, and Jenza is ofc right wrt the absolute necessity for theorycrafting when involved in the development process. Also, any reasonable person realizes the demands on the CPM are very high and would expect in-game time to be severely curtailed for a sitting member of the council. But what about the experience they bring to the position?
There is a fundamental sense in which Sana Rayya is correct. Hands-on experience counts and it counts for a lot. I ideally want to see candidates that have thousands of hours in-game, in all game modes, across multiple builds. I want them to have a vast experience base in DUST and preferably in EVE because integration will definitely be a big item on CPM1's agenda.
Why is a big experience base desirable? Because it is the best defense in spotting game-harming content, in critiquing poorly-designed systems and in having a feel for what might work or be worth exploring. To speak to Jenza's point, the experience base powerfully and beneficially informs the theorycrafting process. Experience across several DUST builds and in EVE gives a Councillor a common vocabulary with CCP and the playerbase and facilitates communication and understanding.
Personally i also want a player who has been able to demonstrate solid performance in-game. I'm not talking about KDR rockstars here(tho there's nothing wrong with that), but rather about peeps who have obviously thought about the challenges that DUST presents to a player and have demonstrated the ability to meet that challenge and perform well. There are many ways to contribute to one's team in DUST. I want candidates who are capable of doing so in a wide variety of conditions. That tells us they understand the dynamics of the game and are creative and flexible enough to adapt and perform in multiple roles.
So that's basically why I value time in game and reasonable career stats.
The other kind of experience i want a candidate to have is forum experience. I want to see that they've been involved and active in the conversation, and for some time. I want their past posts to demonstrate that they've always been working to move DUST ahead and provide worthwhile feedback. I want to see than making observations and involved in back-and-forth conversations about DUST content. I want to see how they pose questions, respond to questions and work to synthesize answers with other posters. I'm not talking about attitude or ego or dickheadedness here, that's an important separate topic, but is not part of this conversation - i'm talking about game-focused dialog and productive, creative, rational contribution and conversation. I want to see a person who makes the effort and has the ability to wrap their head around another person's point of view and engage in productive communication. My primary tool in voting for a candidate will be mining their past posts for Dust content and productive conversation.
As an aside to this, Jenza's criteria of 'What have you done for the DUST community?' feels a little off to me. The are many reasons players engage in extra-DUSTular activities, and while there's much to be admired and respected about the efforts of many peeps to contribute something extra to our greater community, not all of them speak to a focus on the development of the game and it role in New Eden. It's peeps who've focused on these things that i'd really prefer to see on the council. So i'd modify Jenza's criteria to be: 'What have you done for the community that focuses specifically on issues of game development?'
For me, he best answer to that question is if a candidate can demonstrate that they've been actively involved for many months/years in productive dialog focused on DUST/New Eden's development and eventual world domination ;)
That's it for experience. There are other even more important criteria, but experience as indicated above is high up on my list.
Good luck to all the candidates.
I support SP rollover.
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Vrain Matari
Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic
1753
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Posted - 2014.03.08 19:44:00 -
[28] - Quote
Sgt Kirk wrote:Primary Requirements:
*Doesn't put his/her ideas higher over the communities.
*Respectful to the community for the most part. - The only time I want them being an ******* or a smart ass is when they were provoked first. After that, fair game. Too many idiots on these forums anyway.
*Communicates with the player base - Doesn't even have to be about CPM things just be active.
*Actually play the game - I know that CPM doesn't require much out of playing the game but this ties more into the previous point.
*Be familiar with the game - ties into the last two post.
*Have EVE/lore knowledge
*Have common sense - A need for any figure.
*Know what an FPS players want while knowing when to stay away from generic fps simplification.
Did I mention one should play the game?
Secondary Requirements:
*Be Gallente - What better race to have in such a high influential position than a True Gallentean?
*Have a sense of Humor. - Some of these people are like the digital manifestation of Hank Hill on these forums.
P.S. A CPM should also know how to format a post. This is an example of how not to make a post. +1 Sgt Kirk. That's a nice concise list of important points with good prioritization. I was afraid to make such a list myself for fear of how long i would ramble on ;)
Well done.
I support SP rollover.
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darkiller240
WarRavens League of Infamy
537
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Posted - 2014.03.08 19:51:00 -
[29] - Quote
jenza aranda wrote:People who are already doing the job more or less and already contributing to the benefit of the community. well id say only 2 interact with the communaty the other 3 i dont even know
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein
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Asha Starwind
DUST University Ivy League
471
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Posted - 2014.03.08 20:00:00 -
[30] - Quote
Someone who isn't looking at the position as only a means to further their own agenda.
32db Mad Bomber.
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