Yes, but is they company getting anything from the majority of the player?

No. The company, which is paying them gets probably very little from you people. So acting entitled to being a douche, when your putting pennies in their paycheck and then expecting them to bow to your wishes because of the few pennies you gave them is stupid.

You aren't entirely untrue, but I submit a rebuttal:

If I told my customers that I will have something done soon(TM). That I will be updating them, but I will not be telling them WHEN I will be updating them. Well, I'd be written up (or fired if this was a reoccurring problem) and I'd have no one to blame but myself.

And hw mcuh are you paying them?

Hell, EVE players would have more stay if we went off how much money you pay, and Half of them want DUST to be Cancelled.

Yeah, it's all just charity on ccp's part...

Assuming that's company policy. But this is CCP we're talking here. Saying "Soon" IS THEIR COMPANY POLICY!

Used to be an eve player for years.

I've also bought the elite game pack. And buy aurum each month. So im entitled thank you very much.

Ah, so your opinion is worth more then mine because money?

Ah, so your opinion is worth more then mine because money?

You aren't entirely untrue, but I submit a rebuttal:

If I told my customers that I will have something done soon(TM). That I will be updating them, but I will not be telling them WHEN I will be updating them. Well, I'd be written up (or fired if this was a reoccurring problem) and I'd have no one to blame but myself.

There will be dev blogs in time, but please don't spam the forums with topics asking for them. We know you want them, we want to give you them, but we don't want to give them to you until they're done and ready.

Not seeing your point on this one. They can continue to develop on their timelines (Soon(TM)), but we need to be updated more often if they are going to take their sweet time. If a project takes three months you don't just leave your customers in the dark during that time. That's a ****** policy, I don't care what your company policies might have been until now.

Counter-point: If you did tell them WHEN and WHAT and were unable to meet the aforementioned deadline due to, oh I don't know, your staff quitting or a production clusterduck like having a machine break and parts take two weeks to get, how happy do you think they'd be?

Work in manufacturing, your patience with this kind of 'development' will be longer than prolly anyone else you'll meet.

This is why they give us SOON and crap like that, because they most likely either don't know, or don't want to deal with the poopstorm we've been known to unleash at the drop of a hat about anything.

Also, Shanghai is still just horribly understaffed for what they need to do : /

Counter-point: If you did tell them WHEN and WHAT and were unable to meet the aforementioned deadline due to, oh I don't know, your staff quitting or a production clusterduck like having a machine break and parts take two weeks to get, how happy do you think they'd be?

Also, Shanghai is still just horribly understaffed for what they need to do : /

The customer would be upset, yes. Build risk buffers into your project plan. Parts might be late? Add two days. Mechanical failure? Add a week. If you deliver earlier than the projected date no one will be upset.

(This is project planning 101, by the way)



Agreed. They need more staff.

And then you guys throw a hissy-fit over the long ass time of development.

The customer would be upset, yes. Build risk buffers into your project plan. Parts might be late? Add two days. Mechanical failure? Add a week. If you deliver earlier than the projected date no one will be upset.

(This is project planning 101, by the way)

I can't speak for the entire community, but development time isn't my concern. It's not being told jack **** for weeks (months) at a time while being asked to spend AUR on boosters.

Counter-point: If you did tell them WHEN and WHAT and were unable to meet the aforementioned deadline due to, oh I don't know, your staff quitting or a production clusterduck like having a machine break and parts take two weeks to get, how happy do you think they'd be?

Work in manufacturing, your patience with this kind of 'development' will be longer than prolly anyone else you'll meet.

This is why they give us SOON and crap like that, because they most likely either don't know, or don't want to deal with the poopstorm we've been known to unleash at the drop of a hat about anything.

Also, Shanghai is still just horribly understaffed for what they need to do : /

NOTE: When a manufacturer posts an unreasonably long lead time on a part, that's code for "we don't know when it's ready to be honest with you."

I agree with the content of your post, I just trimmed it for brevity.

I do want to respond to this part specifically because I can certainly sympathize with the people who are getting frustrated with the current method of establishing a verbal roadmap.

There are many parts of this game that have no timeframe, let alone an unreasonably long one. Without any sort of time reference, it is really difficult to be angry with CCP for not meeting deadlines, simply because there are no deadlines.

Not that I am upset about this, I long ago resolved my internal conflicts with the realities of CCPs methods of production.

I will say this though:

When the only people who are content with the development schedule are people who have essentially given up on this game being good any time soon, that is a horribly caustic environment to create within your community.

I am consistently advising people to reduce their expectations of CCP, so as to save themselves the frustration of disappointment. If cynicism is the default in all your long term users, then something is clearly wrong.

I feel bad for people who think that this game is going to take some sudden leap forward. That alone should speak volumes, but maybe I am just to much of a skeptic to be a productive member of this community.

Tinfoil hat time:

CCP does not want to provide any sort of accurate guesstimates for when features may be ready because if portions of this community were to find out that feature x that they are waiting desperately for will not be released for x months/years there might be an exodus of players.

Really though, it is just easier and more accurate to blame gross incompetence on the part of the previous EP, and hope that if you give Rouge a couple of more months then we might see a proper set of goals and timelines. That hope is completely irrational, and I do not advice anyone to put anything more than a spec of hope into a solid turn around on this project.

Lowering our expectations is something us Eve Online players have gotten use to. Just look at the captain's quarters for instance. No one knows when CCP will finally open that damn door for once and so far CCP has been pretty mum about it. In fact, many Eve Online players just want that CQ to just shut down and go back to ship spinning for the rest of our lives.

Exactly.

It is a problem of culture within CCP, and one that will not be addressed anytime soon. Which is very unfortunate.

Well, at least it's a hell lot better than EA's culture. Lie to your investors about the profit potential of BF4 and convince them to buy your shares at $60 a piece only to see a hit in profits after release and suffer a share price drop from $60 to $22 a share followed by a complete investigation by a third-party law firm.

You aren't entirely untrue, but I submit a rebuttal:

If I told my customers that I will have something done soon(TM). That I will be updating them, but I will not be telling them WHEN I will be updating them. Well, I'd be written up (or fired if this was a reoccurring problem) and I'd have no one to blame but myself.

If 3000 people constantly asked you a question about the same thing every day you would not be able to work or you would not be able to respond. Pick one not both. Soon doesn't mean the same thing to everyone, if they posted a hard date I would understand but as far as I know they haven't done that. CCP works in their own way so putting your idea of business practices on them isn't going to work. Of course they want you money and yes they want this game to be good. You should just chill out and wait, nothing else you can do.

This is incorrect - They hire people to monitor and talk to those 3000 people on progress, changes etc.

I am sure those same people sit in meetings and get updated or at least have informal discussions about whats happening. They can then get the go ahead from management to let the 3000 people know what the situation is.

Please stop with these misleading characterizations. If CCP wanted to let people know stuff they could. The speed at which they work and produce content is laughable.

And this is why the vast majority of developers don't seem to interact very often with their communities. The communities are full of assholes.

So calling the devs out for information is being an *******? Good one.

Until the devs give us solid data on a consistent basis and actually try to discuss changes with us (even through the CPM, I don't care what the interface is so long as there is an actual dialogue) I will continue to demand accountability for a game I've paid money for and would like to do again in the future. As it is, I stopped playing after the 'mouse overhaul' ruined my gaming experience and refuse to play without proper mouse support.

You can be critical to CCP if you like. I'm sometimes critical too especially on the nova knives and scout suits, but I don't go out and be a genitalia about it. I post my criticism in the most meaningful and constructive way possible. Just take a look at JudgeRhadamansus' critique on dropships and redline rail tanks. His video on YouTube was so well thought out and detailed that CCP responded to it and said that the video is excellent and being forwarded to the appropriate dev team.

Now compare that to a rant or just general douche baggery. Almost no response for those except maybe a lock by the GM.