DUST Search - Amarr Scout -30hp with same speed as Gallente is better scout.

Awry Barux wrote:

Zeylon Rho wrote:

Scouts are more about speed, and the Amarr advantage of "hp" is pointless in the scout class of suits. Sacrificing speed to get 30hp on a non-tanking suit is utterly pointless, like putting thick layers of bulletproof glass on racing car.

I say this because of the dreary state of the Amarr Scout in particular to lack a comparable speed edge over the Assault class. Don't mistake me, the Amarr Scout would still be the "worst" scout with the worst bonuses after dropping 30hp for increased speed. It would just be an actual scout at that point.

I'd take it even further and say you could drop the innate stamina bonus too. In either case, actual suit speed will serve a scout better than 30 hp and a 4% speed hit (a larger speed hit than you'd have for enhanced plates).

The Amarr hp-for-speed tradeoff is questionable even on the tanking suits, but it's completely self-defeating on speed-based suits. The Amarr who can make the second fastest ships in EVE were somehow unable to avoid strapping on extraneous armor plates to their speed-based suit? It's stupid.

^ this.
Please revamp the Amarr scout. A unique slot layout would be nice, also- maybe 1 high 5 low? Something not the same as any other scout. Every other suit class has it, except commando, which is understandable because for the commando's slot count getting 4 unique layouts would require one suit to have either 0 highs or 0 lows.

Sees prototompers... Sees blueberries start to snipe... Pulls out commando suit with laser rifle and swarm launcher...

Pages: 1 [2] 3 :: one page

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Nikea Nei Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 73	Posted - 2014.03.01 05:07:00 - [31] - Quote Freya Tegley wrote: This is an interesting "thought experiment", and yeah - it would be more of a "scout" if it were faster and the 30hp don't really help. Wasn't there some issue with having scouts over a certain speed though? The game engine bursts into flames when players run over whatever speed or something like that. Are you suggesting that a "fix" would just make an Amarr the same speed as Gal/Cal? That all the scouts need to be moved up accordingly? That all the game suits (Medium, etc.) need to adjusted to fit in a proper speed advantage? Over a certain point, speed appears to break hit detection in the game engine. So, making scouts slower than they used to be is part of the "fix". That doesn't mean that scouts can't be noticeably faster than assaults... but it means suit speeds might need to be adjust around that. The alternative is the "Screw the Amarr Scout specifically" notion. In this scenario, the Amarr Scout lacks the speed or hp to be anything but a "challenge" class for masochists and imbeciles. People will post about how they scored well in an Amarr suit in the same way that one might say you got a bunch of kills with Plasma Cannon. It'll be a horrible horrible suit that CCP will just ignore like they ignored Commando issues for most of the suit's lifespan.
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p TRA1LBLAZERS 1008	Posted - 2014.03.01 05:11:00 - [32] - Quote Vell0cet wrote: TheD1CK wrote: 2 H 4 L The highest base HP/stamina/stamina regen in scout class With a bonus to stamina, alleviating the need for Cardiac Regulators So thats 4 low slots on a decent starting HP.... With this layout the Amarr scout can have the best HP and a very good DMG out-put Personally I think everyone is fussing over nothing.... The Amarr Scout will fulfill a combat role, like the Matari Scout Without the disadvantage of lacking low slots for speed/dampening/repair/armour And still having 2 high slots, to enhance DMG or HP Depending on Matari scout layout, I'm strongly considering the Amarr As I feel it will have more advantages than the suicidal Matari equivalent And may benefit from cloaking more than the Matari as the lows slots on Amarr Can be used to buff overall fitting cost.... You people are crazy If you try to play the Amarr scout like an assault, I think you're going to be VERY disappointed. armor plates>all damage mods>all Kills- Archduke Ferdinand Balance!
Jen Gelfling Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 41	Posted - 2014.03.01 05:20:00 - [33] - Quote Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: same as saying the minmitar sentinel will be useless because it can't stack as many plates and doesn't have as high base HP as other suits No... that's not what the OP says Let's look at the two statements: Without 30hp (the Amarr hp advantage) and with the speed of the Gallente (next slowest scout). The Amarr will be a better "scout' (that being the role they're assigned). They're saying without speed, they aren't much of a scout. And the hp won't let them tango with assaults (who still have a large hp advantage) who are the same speed as them. The Amarr scout fails at both roles. The scout role is based around mobility, you see? They're saying the hp doesn't do much for it. Many people have pointed out the Amarr speed issue. You'll note people haven't been saying the Minmatar Sentinel will suck. Why is that? Part of the reason is that speed is generally more valuable than hp. The Minmatar will be the fastest Sentinel (forge guns, hmgs, etc. getting into place quicker). Scouts are wafer-thin as tanks. Giving them 30 more hp doesn't change that. Taking away their speed... that's painful. On the higher end, the speed is also more valuable. The Minmatar Heavy will still have a huge hp advantage on non-heavies AND they'll be faster than heavies of old. Their passives will boost their resistance to weapons. They have a balanced slot layout (3H 2L) allowing for both an armor plate and reppers... and three high slots that go either full shield tank or three damage mods. The other heavy suit with the most high slots (caldari) is slower, can't fit a plate AND a repper, and wouldn't need to slot 3 damage mods (a 4th is typically superfluous). So, the Minmatar Sentinel gets the best slot layout possible. Has more speed than any other heavy, more hp than any assault, and can be either a great shield tanking heavy with fast speed, or a absurdly fast heavy with amped damage that no one has even seen yet (forge/HMG with three damage mods). You sir, are an idiot.
Nikea Nei Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 75	Posted - 2014.03.01 05:22:00 - [34] - Quote Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Vell0cet wrote: TheD1CK wrote: 2 H 4 L The highest base HP/stamina/stamina regen in scout class With a bonus to stamina, alleviating the need for Cardiac Regulators So thats 4 low slots on a decent starting HP.... With this layout the Amarr scout can have the best HP and a very good DMG out-put Personally I think everyone is fussing over nothing.... The Amarr Scout will fulfill a combat role, like the Matari Scout Without the disadvantage of lacking low slots for speed/dampening/repair/armour And still having 2 high slots, to enhance DMG or HP Depending on Matari scout layout, I'm strongly considering the Amarr As I feel it will have more advantages than the suicidal Matari equivalent And may benefit from cloaking more than the Matari as the lows slots on Amarr Can be used to buff overall fitting cost.... You people are crazy If you try to play the Amarr scout like an assault, I think you're going to be VERY disappointed. armor plates>all damage mods>all Are you high? Why would a scout give up their only advantage (speed) to get dragged down to assault speed levels where they still won't have as many hp as the assault? Also, damage mods are getting nerfed, or did you not get that memo?
bamboo x Eternal Beings Proficiency V. 104	Posted - 2014.03.01 05:33:00 - [35] - Quote maybe you amarr scum will get a taste of how it feels to be the shittiest suit in the game for a change bamboo x (Federation Specialist Duvolle Assault Rifle) you
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 3676	Posted - 2014.03.01 06:06:00 - [36] - Quote bamboo x wrote: maybe you amarr scum will get a taste of how it feels to be the shittiest suit in the game for a change +1 for roleplaying -2 for revenge-approach to suit balance Dren and Templar equipment stats, wrong since release.
Master Smurf Nos Nothi 161	Posted - 2014.03.01 14:23:00 - [37] - Quote Kelrie Nae'bre wrote: Zeylon Rho wrote: Killar-12 wrote: COUGH DAMPS COUGH COUGH COUGH COUGH RANGE COUGH COUGH COUGH COUGH ULITMATE SCANNING SUIT COUGH COUGH. That said, I'm not interested in taking anything away from the Gallente. I just want the Amarr to have a scout as well. Yeah. I had mixed feelings on the whole idea of an "assault logi" to begin with. Is their Assault not Assault enough? Does the race need a logi that half-asses the role? The "assault" element turned out to mean "add sidearm" and "get equipment slots later and have fewer slots overall". Super. The shifts on the Sentinel/Heavy suits already call to mind questions of why exactly the Amarr medium will be shorted a slot now. At least it's still two equipment slots. An "assault scout" that has more hp and assault-level speed is just asinine though. It's about as useful as male nipples. Scouts need to be scouts. I'd gladly give up the natural stamina advantage and 30 hp to actually be a GODDAMN scout. Jesus... I feel like CCP went fullretard deciding to apply "LOL, SLOWER & PLUS HP" to everything Amarr. Its there boring way of doing all the suits with the same formula instead of taking a race and implementing how all three frames should act to complement each other to carry out the philosophy of how they fight. On the Amarr Scout - they could go 2 Grenade slots and only 1 equipment. I think thats the easiest move "Shine bright like a diamond"
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 3703	Posted - 2014.03.04 01:14:00 - [38] - Quote Well, I don't think there's actually a control scheme to allow for different grenade types. Are you suggesting matching the speeds, but mixing it up with those changes? Dren and Templar equipment stats, wrong since release.
General12912 Gallente Marine Corps 74	Posted - 2014.03.04 02:18:00 - [39] - Quote Zeylon Rho wrote: Scouts are more about speed, and the Amarr advantage of "hp" is pointless in the scout class of suits. Sacrificing speed to get 30hp on a non-tanking suit is utterly pointless, like putting thick layers of bulletproof glass on racing car. I say this because of the dreary state of the Amarr Scout in particular to lack a comparable speed edge over the Assault class. Don't mistake me, the Amarr Scout would still be the "worst" scout with the worst bonuses after dropping 30hp for increased speed. It would just be an actual scout at that point. I'd take it even further and say you could drop the innate stamina bonus too. In either case, actual suit speed will serve a scout better than 30 hp and a 4% speed hit (a larger speed hit than you'd have for enhanced plates). The Amarr hp-for-speed tradeoff is questionable even on the tanking suits, but it's completely self-defeating on speed-based suits. The Amarr who can make the second fastest ships in EVE were somehow unable to avoid strapping on extraneous armor plates to their speed-based suit? It's stupid. wait until it comes out before you make judgements on the suits. 'nuff said. Assault Gk.0 Gallente Federation Patriot General of the Gallente Marine Corps. Look us up if you want to join.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 3706	Posted - 2014.03.04 02:30:00 - [40] - Quote General12912 wrote: Zeylon Rho wrote: Scouts are more about speed, and the Amarr advantage of "hp" is pointless in the scout class of suits. Sacrificing speed to get 30hp on a non-tanking suit is utterly pointless, like putting thick layers of bulletproof glass on racing car. I say this because of the dreary state of the Amarr Scout in particular to lack a comparable speed edge over the Assault class. Don't mistake me, the Amarr Scout would still be the "worst" scout with the worst bonuses after dropping 30hp for increased speed. It would just be an actual scout at that point. I'd take it even further and say you could drop the innate stamina bonus too. In either case, actual suit speed will serve a scout better than 30 hp and a 4% speed hit (a larger speed hit than you'd have for enhanced plates). The Amarr hp-for-speed tradeoff is questionable even on the tanking suits, but it's completely self-defeating on speed-based suits. The Amarr who can make the second fastest ships in EVE were somehow unable to avoid strapping on extraneous armor plates to their speed-based suit? It's stupid. wait until it comes out before you make judgements on the suits. 'nuff said. Which is totally why they posted the suit stats and asked for Feedback. Dren and Templar equipment stats, wrong since release.

General12912 Gallente Marine Corps 74	Posted - 2014.03.04 02:38:00 - [41] - Quote with all this whining though, i'll probably get my gallentean sentinel by mid-april . and im pretty sure they want feedback on the topic regarding the stats. not your own topic. Assault Gk.0 Gallente Federation Patriot General of the Gallente Marine Corps. Look us up if you want to join.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 3706	Posted - 2014.03.04 02:42:00 - [42] - Quote General12912 wrote: with all this whining though, i'll probably get my gallentean sentinel by mid-april . and im pretty sure they want feedback on the topic regarding the stats. not your own topic. They said they'd welcome any Feedback. Unlike, say, the respec thread - there is no stipulation to put all feedback in one place. 1.8 is due this month regardless of what concerns we raise. That much is confirmed. Dren and Templar equipment stats, wrong since release.
General12912 Gallente Marine Corps 74	Posted - 2014.03.04 02:47:00 - [43] - Quote Zeylon Rho wrote: General12912 wrote: with all this whining though, i'll probably get my gallentean sentinel by mid-april . and im pretty sure they want feedback on the topic regarding the stats. not your own topic. They said they'd welcome any Feedback. Unlike, say, the respec thread - there is no stipulation to put all feedback in one place. 1.8 is due this month regardless of what concerns we raise. That much is confirmed. CCP has broken promises before... Assault Gk.0 Gallente Federation Patriot General of the Gallente Marine Corps. Look us up if you want to join.
Meeko Fent Kirkinen Risk Control Caldari State 1886	Posted - 2014.03.04 06:46:00 - [44] - Quote Nikea Nei wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Vell0cet wrote: TheD1CK wrote: 2 H 4 L The highest base HP/stamina/stamina regen in scout class With a bonus to stamina, alleviating the need for Cardiac Regulators So thats 4 low slots on a decent starting HP.... With this layout the Amarr scout can have the best HP and a very good DMG out-put Personally I think everyone is fussing over nothing.... The Amarr Scout will fulfill a combat role, like the Matari Scout Without the disadvantage of lacking low slots for speed/dampening/repair/armour And still having 2 high slots, to enhance DMG or HP Depending on Matari scout layout, I'm strongly considering the Amarr As I feel it will have more advantages than the suicidal Matari equivalent And may benefit from cloaking more than the Matari as the lows slots on Amarr Can be used to buff overall fitting cost.... You people are crazy If you try to play the Amarr scout like an assault, I think you're going to be VERY disappointed. armor plates>all damage mods>all Are you high? Why would a scout give up their only advantage (speed) to get dragged down to assault speed levels where they still won't have as many hp as the assault? Also, damage mods are getting nerfed, or did you not get that memo? Yes, and those base Assault Level Speed is getting reduced by the assault suit stacking plates. THe Scout is still ok suit if it's Combat fitted. +Faster Then Assault of similar level +Smaller Hitbox +People expecting Super Squisy +50s -Less HP then the Assault of Similar Level -Slower then what it could be -Light on fitting resources Because you Wanted to be Something your Not.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 3717	Posted - 2014.03.05 15:03:00 - [45] - Quote With the new Assault suit stats. Released, we can see the speed difference remains intact. The Minmatar Assault is FASTER than the Amarr Scout. It's also interesting to note in contrast tat the fastest Commando (Minmatar) is still much slower than the slowest Logi (Amarr) (by a factor of about 7%. The logi enjoys a nice .3 m/s speed advantage on the Commando, while the Amarr SCOUT is fukcing slower than the Minmatar Assault. If any role is supposed to enjoy a comfortable speed advantage over the next role, it's the SCOUT. Dren and Templar equipment stats, wrong since release.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 3717	Posted - 2014.03.05 15:22:00 - [46] - Quote Meeko Fent wrote: Yes, and those base Assault Level Speed is getting reduced by the assault suit stacking plates. THe Scout is still ok suit if it's Combat fitted. +Faster Then Assault of similar level +Smaller Hitbox +People expecting Super Squisy +50s -Less HP then the Assault of Similar Level -Slower then what it could be -Light on fitting resources Meh. The assault we're comparing it with (Minmatar) is a shield tanker. If they both try to tank without impacting speed, the Minmatar will still easily have a huge huge advantage. The scout won't be noticeably "stronger" than the Gallente. The 30hp is negligible, and the Gallente has a free enhanced repper to go along with its higher speed. Dren and Templar equipment stats, wrong since release.
Spectral Clone Dust2Dust. Top Men. 1504	Posted - 2014.03.05 15:47:00 - [47] - Quote Gallente scout is also better at assaulting than caldari assault. Lulz. Dat 30 hp/s shield regen. Dust is very much work in progress. Drop it like its hat.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 3770	Posted - 2014.03.07 19:41:00 - [48] - Quote Spectral Clone wrote: Gallente scout is also better at assaulting than caldari assault. Lulz. Dat 30 hp/s shield regen. Dust is very much work in progress. True. I feel strongly about this because I feel the deficits of the Amarr scout are obvious, especially in comparison. I was more irked about the lack of a speed gap when I discovered there IS a large speed gap between the fastest Commando and Slowest logi... which are arguably less speed sensitive roles than a scout. Dren and Templar equipment stats, wrong since release.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 3807	Posted - 2014.03.12 17:14:00 - [49] - Quote And.... no changes to the Amarr scout. Still slower than the Minnie assault. Still the worst bonus. Dren and Templar equipment stats, wrong since release.
Vell0cet SVER True Blood General Tso's Alliance 1059	Posted - 2014.03.12 19:34:00 - [50] - Quote Zeylon Rho wrote: And.... no changes to the Amarr scout. Still slower than the Minnie assault. Still the worst bonus. I'm astonished that well reasoned threads such as this one (and others focused on the bonus) have gone completely ignored. I'm incredibly disappointed in CCP. Best PvE idea ever!

Beren Hurin Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 2203	Posted - 2014.03.12 19:59:00 - [51] - Quote Zeylon Rho wrote: And.... no changes to the Amarr scout. Still slower than the Minnie assault. Still the worst bonus. wrong. they adjusted the base stamina from where it was before. 225 to 275.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 3812	Posted - 2014.03.12 20:11:00 - [52] - Quote Beren Hurin wrote: Zeylon Rho wrote: And.... no changes to the Amarr scout. Still slower than the Minnie assault. Still the worst bonus. wrong. they adjusted the base stamina from where it was before. 225 to 275. No changes to the "problems". The speed difference and the ****-bonus. Dren and Templar equipment stats, wrong since release.
Vell0cet SVER True Blood General Tso's Alliance 1059	Posted - 2014.03.12 20:40:00 - [53] - Quote Zeylon Rho wrote: Beren Hurin wrote: Zeylon Rho wrote: And.... no changes to the Amarr scout. Still slower than the Minnie assault. Still the worst bonus. wrong. they adjusted the base stamina from where it was before. 225 to 275. No changes to the "problems". The speed difference and the ***-bonus. Maybe someone needs to make a video when 1.8 is released showing just how bad it is. The problem of course is finding someone dumb enough to pss away enough SP to to proto out the Amarr scout. Best PvE idea ever!
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 3813	Posted - 2014.03.12 20:59:00 - [54] - Quote Vell0cet wrote: Zeylon Rho wrote: Beren Hurin wrote: Zeylon Rho wrote: And.... no changes to the Amarr scout. Still slower than the Minnie assault. Still the worst bonus. wrong. they adjusted the base stamina from where it was before. 225 to 275. No changes to the "problems". The speed difference and the ***-bonus. Maybe someone needs to make a video when 1.8 is released showing just how bad it is. The problem of course is finding someone dumb enough to pss away enough SP to to proto out the Amarr scout. Probably a bad idea to skill into medium suits too, since those are being changed too, but they didn't get around to it. Dren and Templar equipment stats, wrong since release.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 3834	Posted - 2014.03.18 10:58:00 - [55] - Quote I think some people missed the point of the thread, really. Dren and Templar equipment stats, wrong since release.
ARF 1049 The Phoenix Federation 66	Posted - 2014.03.18 13:59:00 - [56] - Quote Damnit people... Amarr aren't scouts! I know they have a light frame but they are not made for scouting! that's why the lighter races are better scouts. And gallente have been scout from the beginning thus they keep a high standing in there job of stealth caldari are combat scouts and minmi are the minjas and gallente are the multi role medium and heavy frame hunters. Amar are a heavy type of suit not light... There now just remember that and stop wishing... "You will never see me coming, as that of a shadow, invisible to your scanner and your eyes. Prepare your anus."
Master Smurf Nos Nothi 225	Posted - 2014.03.18 14:13:00 - [57] - Quote Amarr Scout being slightly slower than Minmatar Assault isnt the end of the world. It has significantly more stamina and higher stamina regen and 4 Lows. It can use twin Kin Cats and always be better than the Minnie Assault over distance (which will be short for the assault). - That goes quite well with smaller hitbox, dampening, cloak, range etc "Shine bright like a diamond"
low genius The Sound Of Freedom Renegade Alliance 1370	Posted - 2014.03.18 14:24:00 - [58] - Quote if you don't want my scout suit, run another scout suit. stop trying to get my amarr scout changed!
Dauth Jenkins Ultramarine Corp 251	Posted - 2014.03.18 15:41:00 - [59] - Quote Awry Barux wrote: Zeylon Rho wrote: Scouts are more about speed, and the Amarr advantage of "hp" is pointless in the scout class of suits. Sacrificing speed to get 30hp on a non-tanking suit is utterly pointless, like putting thick layers of bulletproof glass on racing car. I say this because of the dreary state of the Amarr Scout in particular to lack a comparable speed edge over the Assault class. Don't mistake me, the Amarr Scout would still be the "worst" scout with the worst bonuses after dropping 30hp for increased speed. It would just be an actual scout at that point. I'd take it even further and say you could drop the innate stamina bonus too. In either case, actual suit speed will serve a scout better than 30 hp and a 4% speed hit (a larger speed hit than you'd have for enhanced plates). The Amarr hp-for-speed tradeoff is questionable even on the tanking suits, but it's completely self-defeating on speed-based suits. The Amarr who can make the second fastest ships in EVE were somehow unable to avoid strapping on extraneous armor plates to their speed-based suit? It's stupid. ^ this. Please revamp the Amarr scout. A unique slot layout would be nice, also- maybe 1 high 5 low? Something not the same as any other scout. Every other suit class has it, except commando, which is understandable because for the commando's slot count getting 4 unique layouts would require one suit to have either 0 highs or 0 lows. 5 lows? This isn't a logi! You could stack more armour on that than almost any other suit in the game! Sees prototompers... Sees blueberries start to snipe... Pulls out commando suit with laser rifle and swarm launcher...
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 3835	Posted - 2014.03.18 19:18:00 - [60] - Quote Master Smurf wrote: Amarr Scout being slightly slower than Minmatar Assault isnt the end of the world. It has significantly more stamina and higher stamina regen and 4 Lows. It can use twin Kin Cats and always be better than the Minnie Assault over distance (which will be short for the assault). - That goes quite well with smaller hitbox, dampening, cloak, range etc It's not about the "end of the world". People will be able to kill things with an Amarr Scout. People will be able to cloak, capture objectives, and so on. It's about the relative strengths of the suit compared to other suits. The Amarr niche of "slower + higher hp" doesn't make sense in context of making a "the fastest suits in the game" (CCP's words, not mine). Scouts aren't about tanking damage, but to the extent they are, 30 hp is much less useful than the speed would be. Dren and Templar equipment stats, wrong since release.



Pages: 1 [2] 3 :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page