F2P implementation in DUST is ruining game quality - let's talk economics. I love this topic, so I thought I'd post some more on it. Here is the problem I think. F2P implies that there has to be something worth paying AUR for (aside from boosters), meaning that we have tiered equipment with higher tiers being relatively difficult to run efficiently from financial stand point. So that on average a player will lose ISK off more expensive suits, hopefully prompting supplementation with AUR. The reverse of this is that proto tends to be much better than everything else. This leads to proto stomping - the only way to proto in pubs w/o losing money - stackig proto players on one side. In turn proto groups tend to recruit talent. An average experienced player would much rather be on the winning side since the alternative is to be both: beat up and lose ISK by being on the losing team. Now, most ppl know this full well: proto stomping sucks because noobs get destroyed and turn away from the game, but what ppl don't talk as much about is that proto stomping is equally bad for vets, and here is why: Let's take a hypothetical corp, call them NS, who love to stomp pub ambush. Now, on the off chance they run into another corp who on occasion indulges in pub stomping, hypothetical corp AE. In this scenario, 9/10 times NS would leave this battle as it does not offer pubstomping anymore but rather a very expensive blood bath. So all NS players who otherwise would have loved to have a good balanced fight against players of similar skill will now lose that chance because of monetary pressure and corp dynamics. Please, note they are in the corp not necessarily because they are a total scumbag who likes to rob little kids off their lunch money; they joined the corp because the financial pressure drove them there (refer to paragraph #3 above). So the net result of F2P economy is that the game is terribly lopsided and not fun - financial pressure drives ppl to stay away from competitive matches. Instead we have proto-stomping, tank squads, redline snipers. Where vet-noob skill gap stops short of ruining the game quality, F2P picks up the slack.

My eyes, they burn.

Let's take a hypothetical corp, call them NS, who love to stomp pub ambush. Now, on the off chance they run into another corp who on occasion indulges in pub stomping, hypothetical corp AE. In this scenario, 9/10 times NS would leave this battle as it does not offer pubstomping anymore but rather a very expensive blood bath.

So all NS players who otherwise would have loved to have a good balanced fight against players of similar skill will now lose that chance because of monetary pressure and corp dynamics. Please, note they are in the corp not necessarily because they are a total scumbag who likes to rob little kids off their lunch money; they joined the corp because the financial pressure drove them there (refer to paragraph #3 above).

So the net result of F2P economy is that the game is terribly lopsided and not fun - financial pressure drives ppl to stay away from competitive matches. Instead we have proto-stomping, tank squads, redline snipers. Where vet-noob skill gap stops short of ruining the game quality, F2P picks up the slack.

Lol@ your hypothetical corps. NS for Nyan Sain and AE for Ancient Exiles.

Jokes set aside, I can see what you mean about proto stomping. But one way to address that is to at least implement proper matchmaking based on the tier of the suit allowed. Another way is to allow players to supplement their income with trade. However opening trade will require planetary conquest to be fixed first (PC districts = ATM machines) so that there is as little excess ISK as possible so that the effect on the secondary market is minimal.

As you can see, talking economics in a game like DUST requires delving into a broad range of issues beyond that of typical proto stomping in pubs.

Hey, lean closer buddy,

*Whispers* IF this game wasn't F2P, do you think anybody would stil be playing it? Serious question.

I see that there is a need to make the AUR purchases more then just Skill Boosters, (Which BPO's used to fill, but they were removed in anticipation of the hopefully soon Player to Player market) Stat boosters would be obviously P2W, but the idea of paying real world money EVER time you die and don't get needled is a big no-no on the player side.

Perhaps instead of this current form of Skill Boosting, I could see perhaps a AUR item that automatically skills a skill up X levels, but I personally think that's a bad idea.

Perhaps making AUR be usable for more then just the items your undoubtedly going to burn through would be best. Opening AUR up to buying Skill Books, Maybe the 3rd Alt slot be unlocked with a bit of AUR, speeding up Bio-massing, Player AUR transfers, and Perhaps A "Subscription" booster that converts all the SP you would get from Actively playing into Passive SP, that could cost like 20$ a month.

That seems the smartest way to go, to make AUR not a expendable thing that you keep having to fill up on, with options to spend it on something a bit more permanent.

F2P implementation in DUST is ruining game quality - let's talk economics. I love this topic, so I thought I'd post some more on it. Here is the problem I think.

F2P implies that there has to be something worth paying AUR for (aside from boosters), meaning that we have tiered equipment with higher tiers being relatively difficult to run efficiently from financial stand point. So that on average a player will lose ISK off more expensive suits, hopefully prompting supplementation with AUR. The reverse of this is that proto tends to be much better than everything else.

This leads to proto stomping - the only way to proto in pubs w/o losing money - stackig proto players on one side. In turn proto groups tend to recruit talent. An average experienced player would much rather be on the winning side since the alternative is to be both: beat up and lose ISK by being on the losing team. Now, most ppl know this full well: proto stomping sucks because noobs get destroyed and turn away from the game, but what ppl don't talk as much about is that proto stomping is equally bad for vets, and here is why:

Let's take a hypothetical corp, call them NS, who love to stomp pub ambush. Now, on the off chance they run into another corp who on occasion indulges in pub stomping, hypothetical corp AE. In this scenario, 9/10 times NS would leave this battle as it does not offer pubstomping anymore but rather a very expensive blood bath.

So all NS players who otherwise would have loved to have a good balanced fight against players of similar skill will now lose that chance because of monetary pressure and corp dynamics. Please, note they are in the corp not necessarily because they are a total scumbag who likes to rob little kids off their lunch money; they joined the corp because the financial pressure drove them there (refer to paragraph #3 above).

So the net result of F2P economy is that the game is terribly lopsided and not fun - financial pressure drives ppl to stay away from competitive matches. Instead we have proto-stomping, tank squads, redline snipers. Where vet-noob skill gap stops short of ruining the game quality, F2P picks up the slack.

Hey, lean closer buddy,

*Whispers* IF this game wasn't F2P, do you think anybody would stil be playing it? Serious question.

I see that there is a need to make the AUR purchases more then just Skill Boosters, (Which BPO's used to fill, but they were removed in anticipation of the hopefully soon Player to Player market) Stat boosters would be obviously P2W, but the idea of paying real world money EVER time you die and don't get needled is a big no-no on the player side.

Perhaps instead of this current form of Skill Boosting, I could see perhaps a AUR item that automatically skills a skill up X levels, but I personally think that's a bad idea.

Perhaps making AUR be usable for more then just the items your undoubtedly going to burn through would be best. Opening AUR up to buying Skill Books, Maybe the 3rd Alt slot be unlocked with a bit of AUR, speeding up Bio-massing, Player AUR transfers, and Perhaps A "Subscription" booster that converts all the SP you would get from Actively playing into Passive SP, that could cost like 20$ a month.

That seems the smartest way to go, to make AUR not a expendable thing that you keep having to fill up on, with options to spend it on something a bit more permanent.

my post is not so much of whether AUR transactions are implemented well. it is about the fact that f2p model discourages competitive play.