I'm curious to find out how other Mercs feel about the constatntly monthly-shifting FOTM meta.

We all have played "AR 514," "MD 514," and now we're playing "RR 514." This is largely due to the monthly releases of nerf/buff/new weapon patch cycles. With the new weapons, which seemingly get released in a greatly overpowered state, only to be nerfed into infinity in the next monthly cycle, it shifts the meta to the current hotness, the flavor of the month. There have been numerous flavors of the month, ranging from the examples above to the Flaylock hotness to the era of the Murder Taxis to the reign of the Caldari Logi-Assault.

I'm curious to find out how other Mercs feel about the constatntly monthly-shifting FOTM meta.

We all have played "AR 514," "MD 514," and now we're playing "RR 514." This is largely due to the monthly releases of nerf/buff/new weapon patch cycles. With the new weapons, which seemingly get released in a greatly overpowered state, only to be nerfed into infinity in the next monthly cycle, it shifts the meta to the current hotness, the flavor of the month. There have been numerous flavors of the month, ranging from the examples above to the Flaylock hotness to the era of the Murder Taxis to the reign of the Caldari Logi-Assault.

.....

For me its not meta. Its still beta. We might not need a respec, but we certainly deserve one.

I totally agree with you and I wonder myself if CCP is testing the stuff they produce.

I mean..

Has reallly no one of CCP felt that the rail rifle is much too strong?
Has no one played a match and said WOAH I can shoot and kill all people from far and close, very fast, very precise.
.... mhhh that could be not balanced...

Did nobody had that feeling at CCP before release?

I have the feeling they are skipping testing. I do not know the reason. Maybe they are missing some sort of sisi server for dust514 or time is lacking, but please change your workflow.

I totally agree with you and I wonder myself if CCP is testing the stuff they produce.

I mean..

Has reallly no one of CCP felt that the rail rifle is much too strong?
Has no one played a match and said WOAH I can shoot and kill all people from far and close, very fast, very precise.
.... mhhh that could be not balanced...

Did nobody had that feeling at CCP before release?

I have the feeling they are skipping testing. I do not know the reason. Maybe they are missing some sort of sisi server for dust514 or time is lacking, but please change your workflow.

There has never been "MD 514", and "RR 514" is just more AR 514. Even when MDs were useful, AR users outnumbered MD users by 10 to 1. In fact, AR users outnumbered all other weapon users combined if you ignore snipers. The same is true for Flaylocks. The Flaylock has never even been the most popular sidearm.

What you guys are seeing as the FOTM is actually a second order issue because the flavor of the game has always been AR. We now have new ARs, but it's still AR 514 - meaning high dps, med to long range effective hitscan weapons with too much AimAssist.

The hitscan weapons need to be toned down. Simple as that.

There has never been "MD 514", and "RR 514" is just more AR 514. Even when MDs were useful, AR users outnumbered MD users by 10 to 1. In fact, AR users outnumbered all other weapon users combined if you ignore snipers. The same is true for Flaylocks. The Flaylock has never even been the most popular sidearm.

What you guys are seeing as the FOTM is actually a second order issue because the flavor of the game has always been AR. We now have new ARs, but it's still AR 514 - meaning high dps, med to long range effective hitscan weapons with too much AimAssist.

The hitscan weapons need to be toned down. Simple as that.

As an omni soldier I am always FOTM.

They're assault rifles, they're supposed to be popular. Everything else is a niche or a specialty.

You lost credibility when you said there was no Flaylock FOTM.

Flaylock was never OP. CCP over reacted. It was useful in it's niche, and that is all. (True, AR* users would just close distance and subsequently get killed, just like they do with shotguns, knives, anything that is niche really. AR* users don't recognize niches, and think the AR* should be at least even odds no matter the circumstances) The submachine gun has always been the sidearm of choice, even during the great Flaylock panic of AR users.

There should be no generalist weapon in Dust. The very existence of generalist weapons is one of the primary factors that has dumbed down dust, reduced tactical options, and made the game boring. All weapons should be niche weapons, it's as simple as that, unless you like the current AR 514* where there's just one infantry role, one infantry weapon, and one infantry tactic (barring those that people choose just because they'd rather not be sheep, but are certainly a disadvantage). To me, that's the definition of a subpar game and a cookie cutter effort at best.

I'm not super concerned with your measure of what constitutes credibility. The hitscan weapons do need to be toned down, or Dust needs to get billed as another mindless twitch shooter, as is the case currently.

*AR 514 - medium to long range, hitscan weapons, capable of very high dps and virtually no short range deficits, i.e EZ mode.

I've got my stuff I don't need to follow anyone else

i dont spec fotm never have. sometimes the new fotm has been something i already had and then i cut down use out of boredom.

i would agree with the statement that the ever changing fotm takes the fun out of infantry for me which is why i now tank spam

I'm just responding to those who keep bringing up the Cal logi yes it had 700 Shield but it had no damage mods, a STD ScR or a STD flux was an easy counter but everyone still complained. The current Gal logi has 700 Armor and 3 complex damage mods and is capable of running proto equipment yet there is no where near the same outrage.

I totally agree with you and I wonder myself if CCP is testing the stuff they produce.

I mean..

Has reallly no one of CCP felt that the rail rifle is much too strong?
Has no one played a match and said WOAH I can shoot and kill all people from far and close, very fast, very precise.
.... mhhh that could be not balanced...

Did nobody had that feeling at CCP before release?

I have the feeling they are skipping testing. I do not know the reason. Maybe they are missing some sort of sisi server for dust514 or time is lacking, but please change your workflow.

the only thing about fotm i dislike is the over inflated egos it causes by those diks who flock to it

Twin flaylock fits dominated at short to short-medium range. Even if the non-FL user got the drop on the FL, the FL user just had to turn and start spamming anywhere near the opponent's feet and they'd win the engagement. This is due to the smoke and blast throwing off the enemy's aim, while the FL user just had to land his shots somewhere in the general vicinity. All that in a sidearm. It was very, very OP.

I'm curious to find out how other Mercs feel about the constatntly monthly-shifting FOTM meta.

We all have played "AR 514," "MD 514," and now we're playing "RR 514." This is largely due to the monthly releases of nerf/buff/new weapon patch cycles. With the new weapons, which seemingly get released in a greatly overpowered state, only to be nerfed into infinity in the next monthly cycle, it shifts the meta to the current hotness, the flavor of the month. There have been numerous flavors of the month, ranging from the examples above to the Flaylock hotness to the era of the Murder Taxis to the reign of the Caldari Logi-Assault.

In this month, it's the Rail Rifle, which was released in 1.7 as part of the effort to continue to flesh out all drop suits, weapons, generally nerf/buff/balance the game etc., and as has been the case with many other new releases or nerfs/buffs, it was released without compromises. It has the longest ranges in the game, considerable dps at any range, highly effective in close quarters, midrange, long range, etc. It's hard hitting and deadly accurate.

To some, as I've heard more than a few of my corpmates express, this creates a taxing cycle where the game dips and peaks from fun to not fun by having to continually deal with brokenly-overpowered weapon systems. If it wasn't the aim assist/fixes that made the AR overpowered one month, it was the shift to MDs that made Dust an MD-spam fest, or perhaps you remember the rampant Murder Taxi epoch. Now, Dust has filled its large-footprint maps with a long-range murder stick, capable of killing you from however far away your opponent is all the way through standing right in your face, using that same long-range murder stick to equal or better effect, despite you having a supposedly superior close-range weapon like the shotgun or Assault Rifle.

I wonder if this sentiment is shared by more of the community or is this more of an isolated problem for a few players not wanting to deal with a game in its early (though probably not anymore) stages. It is a valid concern, and I'm of the personal opinion that it'd probably be better to release something in a balanced or even slightly underpowered state so as to stop the waves of the ever-shifting meta that comes with each patch cycle. Releasing something slightly underpowered that could then be buffed later to bring it up to playable standards would curb the ever-shifting FOTM, give people confidence to spend SP in a weapon system that they enjoy (since it would be/have been released on parity with similar kit), and generally provide a "stable" feeling to the battlescape so its not always like trying to hit a moving target while blindfolded.

I've highlighted the important parts. First off, it doesn't really matter now, but I still stand by my statement - the Flaylock was never OP.

When you mention that the flaylock user dominated short to medium range encounters this is only a small piece of what actually happened. First off, flaylock users didn't dominate any area, they were however useful at short range, not medium range.

Now, they did dominate short range encounters where AR players just stupidly played "run and gun" and just closed to extreme close range with their trusty AR. This is because the AR (and now it's new cousins) are in fact, so OP, that AR users never learned any tactics. They were, and are still, used to running in to any situation and expecting their AR to win the game for them. This is why a subset of the playerbase believes that the flaylock dominated - because it dominated them, in it's preferred niche, based on poor counter tactics. This is how it should be - sidearm or no.

Now, even during the height of it's popularity, the flaylock was less used, less destructive, and less easy than the sidearm of choice - the SMG - which, like the other hitscan weapons can dominate in too many niches.

That's the problem with generalist weapons, they are either OP or worthless. They can't be properly balanced against niche weapons. Furthermore, they cause players to fail to learn tactics precisely due to the generalist nature of the weapon. This is why, we have a Dust with generally OP hitscan weapons, and Dust has lost most of it's initial promise as a "thinking man's shooter".

The generalist weapons kill diversity, and cause players to expect them to always win. Then, said players, insist that anytime they are killed consistently by another weapon, even in that weapon's niche, that the other weapon is OP, when in fact, it is the generalist weapon that is OP and hurting Dust.

In short - your first highlighted part is wrong due to the inclusion of medium range. Flaylocks have a projectile travel time, making them harder to score a hit with than any hitscan weapon at any range, regardless of a small explosion or not. Also, your conclusion is wrong due to your viewpoint being myopic from the point of view of someone who expects a single weapon (AR*) to always dominate, or at least be even vs any other weapon. This, by design, is bad.

AR* - Again I mean high dps, hitscan, med to long range powerhouses with little or no short range drawbacks or drawbacks in general.

The game does very much feel like a beta, so I'm really curious why CCP felt they had to move it out of beta whenever they did, especially considering how long some products stay in beta nowadays. I think more people would be more forgiving if Dust was still in beta, at least officially.

Read what I said. I didn't say it dominated at medium range, I said it dominated at short-medium range, i.e. at the short end of medium range.

I also didn't use AR at that time - I was a dedicated HMG heavy. Hardly a 'high dps, hitscan, med to long range powerhouse'. Supposedly the HMG should have been dominating at close range, but it was outclassed by the flaylock - that's right, a heavy weapon outclassed by a sidearm within its own area of (supposed) expertise. I would almost always beat ARs or shotguns up close, but a flaylock would usually get the better of me.

I disagree with this: 'Now, they did dominate short range encounters where AR players just stupidly played "run and gun" and just closed to extreme close range with their trusty AR'. With the HMG the best chance against a FP was to get so close to the pistolier (basically on top of them) that they would hit themselves with the blast. That would also work with an AR. So what you call stupid I call smart. Of course, the FP was so OP that often this strategy wouldn't work, but it was still the best strategy for a short range engagement against it.

Maybe you'll say 'aha, why was the AR involved in a short range engagement?'. But in an objective-based game mode the majority of engagements are short range. If you're expecting ARs users (i.e., most of the playerbase in early Uprising) to stay away from objectives and lose the game just because some reds brought a sidearm along it's obvious that's an OP sidearm.

I totally agree with you and I wonder myself if CCP is testing the stuff they produce.

I mean..

Has reallly no one of CCP felt that the rail rifle is much too strong?
Has no one played a match and said WOAH I can shoot and kill all people from far and close, very fast, very precise.
.... mhhh that could be not balanced...

Did nobody had that feeling at CCP before release?

I have the feeling they are skipping testing. I do not know the reason. Maybe they are missing some sort of sisi server for dust514 or time is lacking, but please change your workflow.

I'll tell you what. Let's just agree to disagree.

The HMG should beat a flaylock in short range, of course. I contend, though, that this was never due to the flaylock being OP. I contend that it was due to the HMG being UP. The HMG has been UP for quite some time. Now saying that, a heavy is also a pretty good target for a weapon like a flaylock. What makes the flaylock hard is it's short range combined with projectile travel time. Obviously, a relatively slow heavy would be bit easier to hit with such a weapon.

I will say if said "run and gun" AR users are trying to get so close that the flaylock user damages themselves, well, then, they're doing it wrong. This might be an OK strategy for a heavy with a lot more HP, but the AR user has the vast - vast- advantage against a flaylock user at anything OTHER than extreme short range, and thus closing like an idiot is just that. Maybe not for a heavy though. Even with a heavy, this might not be a very good idea, but I haven't played heavy in quite a while.

As an aside, the HMG has suffered just like all the other niche weapons at the hands of the AR hegemony.

I'd say at least it's not monthly anymore... it will be quarterly FOTM here on out. :P

There has never been "MD 514", and "RR 514" is just more AR 514. Even when MDs were useful, AR users outnumbered MD users by 10 to 1. In fact, AR users outnumbered all other weapon users combined if you ignore snipers. The same is true for Flaylocks. The Flaylock has never even been the most popular sidearm.

What you guys are seeing as the FOTM is actually a second order issue because the flavor of the game has always been AR. We now have new ARs, but it's still AR 514 - meaning high dps, med to long range effective hitscan weapons with too much AimAssist.

The hitscan weapons need to be toned down. Simple as that.

not at all. it's to be expected. most of us have every weapon we like at proto anyway, so who cares which one is tough this month, or fun to use, or whatever.

I have my own playstyle I don't need to copy anyone else.

There will always be a carrot.

FOTM occurs in nearly all games. It doesn't mean somthing is the best or that it doesn't have counters to it.


This is when "meta-game" comes into play. For instance,

When everyone specs into cloak and starts using it on scouts next patch, I will switch to the mass driver (wide radius varient) to decloak any and all shimmers. It will provide huge benefit to my team, and the opposing team will counter me with a number of weapon / suit / vehicle combination.


RR are not the end all be all weapon, and have a number of counter's which people are too stuborn to use.
-I personally prefer getting in an LAV and simply driving up to them, jumping out and killing.
-Another counter which took the longest time to learn because it's soo revolutionary... focus on points with more cqc... ie stop trying to run 100 meters in open area to get within 40-60 meters of RR-using target.

I don't think these concepts are hard to grasp, or maybe they just don't work and I'm lying to myself...

Please do tell me if I'm silly...

Can't wait for commando 514

Oh the tears!!!!!!

Yea, it's boring and just plain annoying when it seems like everyone is doing the exact same thing. Gets monotonous.

And I normally avoid the FotM but I did spec into RR because the increased range and huge increase in DPS made it more of an aggravation to avoid than it was worth. But that's mainly due to CCP really screwing the pooch with this one as I can't think of another time the FotM has been as overall superior as it is right now. Not unbeatable but superior in most situations.

You are being silly... Besides MD countering scouts hard.
No real competitive match has vehicle cap room for LAVs.
Rail rifle is the dominant point denial weapon in the game currently... Where once a mass driver shined, people now use rail rifles in its place. Consider rings map. The catwalk next to supply depot above A now sports That Guy with a rail rifle, denying the point until he is destroyed. As do any exposed outdoor points. Simply focusing on CQC points will result in losses 100% of the time on some maps.

Avoiding a whole point because someone is using an OP weapon to defend it is not a counter. It is a balance issue. Oh and for CQC, the default choice becomes combat rifle with the same issues.