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Vespasian Andendare
Subsonic Synthesis RISE of LEGION
585
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Posted - 2014.02.21 17:36:00 -
[1] - Quote
I'm curious to find out how other Mercs feel about the constatntly monthly-shifting FOTM meta.
We all have played "AR 514," "MD 514," and now we're playing "RR 514." This is largely due to the monthly releases of nerf/buff/new weapon patch cycles. With the new weapons, which seemingly get released in a greatly overpowered state, only to be nerfed into infinity in the next monthly cycle, it shifts the meta to the current hotness, the flavor of the month. There have been numerous flavors of the month, ranging from the examples above to the Flaylock hotness to the era of the Murder Taxis to the reign of the Caldari Logi-Assault.
In this month, it's the Rail Rifle, which was released in 1.7 as part of the effort to continue to flesh out all drop suits, weapons, generally nerf/buff/balance the game etc., and as has been the case with many other new releases or nerfs/buffs, it was released without compromises. It has the longest ranges in the game, considerable dps at any range, highly effective in close quarters, midrange, long range, etc. It's hard hitting and deadly accurate.
To some, as I've heard more than a few of my corpmates express, this creates a taxing cycle where the game dips and peaks from fun to not fun by having to continually deal with brokenly-overpowered weapon systems. If it wasn't the aim assist/fixes that made the AR overpowered one month, it was the shift to MDs that made Dust an MD-spam fest, or perhaps you remember the rampant Murder Taxi epoch. Now, Dust has filled its large-footprint maps with a long-range murder stick, capable of killing you from however far away your opponent is all the way through standing right in your face, using that same long-range murder stick to equal or better effect, despite you having a supposedly superior close-range weapon like the shotgun or Assault Rifle.
I wonder if this sentiment is shared by more of the community or is this more of an isolated problem for a few players not wanting to deal with a game in its early (though probably not anymore) stages. It is a valid concern, and I'm of the personal opinion that it'd probably be better to release something in a balanced or even slightly underpowered state so as to stop the waves of the ever-shifting meta that comes with each patch cycle. Releasing something slightly underpowered that could then be buffed later to bring it up to playable standards would curb the ever-shifting FOTM, give people confidence to spend SP in a weapon system that they enjoy (since it would be/have been released on parity with similar kit), and generally provide a "stable" feeling to the battlescape so its not always like trying to hit a moving target while blindfolded.
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HiddenBrother
49
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Posted - 2014.02.21 17:44:00 -
[2] - Quote
FOTM isn't much of anything to me. One of the big issues with RR 514; is that many people have invested their skill points into the Gallente line of dropsuits. They are outright garbage when pitted against the RR.
Currently waiting on Cloak 514/Scout 514.
Everyone is invisible, and the scanner was nerfed to hell due to QQ.
That'll be fun.
Ruin.
Weekly PC battles; even though ninety percent of Molden Heath is locked.
36 million ISK battle coins are fun.
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Heimdallr69
Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance
1615
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Posted - 2014.02.21 17:47:00 -
[3] - Quote
I've got my stuff I don't need to follow anyone else
Removed inappropriate content - CCP Logibro
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Buster Friently
Rosen Association
1822
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Posted - 2014.02.21 17:52:00 -
[4] - Quote
Vespasian Andendare wrote:I'm curious to find out how other Mercs feel about the constatntly monthly-shifting FOTM meta.
We all have played "AR 514," "MD 514," and now we're playing "RR 514." This is largely due to the monthly releases of nerf/buff/new weapon patch cycles. With the new weapons, which seemingly get released in a greatly overpowered state, only to be nerfed into infinity in the next monthly cycle, it shifts the meta to the current hotness, the flavor of the month. There have been numerous flavors of the month, ranging from the examples above to the Flaylock hotness to the era of the Murder Taxis to the reign of the Caldari Logi-Assault.
There has never been "MD 514", and "RR 514" is just more AR 514. Even when MDs were useful, AR users outnumbered MD users by 10 to 1. In fact, AR users outnumbered all other weapon users combined if you ignore snipers.
What you guys are seeing as the FOTM is actually a second order issue because the flavor of the game has always been AR. We now have new ARs, but it's still AR 514 - meaning high dps, med to long range effective hitscan weapons with too much AimAssist.
The hitscan weapons need to be toned down. Simple as that.
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Ander Thedas
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
333
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Posted - 2014.02.21 18:01:00 -
[5] - Quote
If I'm being honest here I haven't felt the level of overuse towards rail rifles that the forum has been alluding to. Sure, they kill me sometimes, but as far as the kill feed goes I've seen more weapon variation than any other iteration of the game. Some weapons are being scaled back in 1.8, that's already confirmed. So, really the continual need to make noise about it isn't necessary. The game is growing in a pretty healthy direction, all things considered.
FW lvl10 reward
Mobile Redlines
Default FWRace
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Leadfoot10
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
488
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Posted - 2014.02.21 18:08:00 -
[6] - Quote
RR514? lol Not hardly.
However, you do make a good point about "chasing the FOTM".
That said, the field is much more balanced than it was, and CCP seems to be taking steps to get this game balanced out. |
Awry Barux
New Eden Blades Of The Azure Zero-Day
1003
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Posted - 2014.02.21 18:12:00 -
[7] - Quote
Eh. This shifting-FOTM meta is inevitable when they're having to release new things every few months. Once we get full racial parity, balance will stabilize. I'm confident we won't have to deal with it for too much longer- CCP is well aware of these issues. |
Vrain Matari
Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic
1644
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Posted - 2014.02.21 18:14:00 -
[8] - Quote
In terms of my performance it makes no difference whatsoever because FOTMs are typically very simple-minded and trivial to adapt to.
On an aesthetic level it disgusts me.
I support SP rollover.
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Jungian
Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN.
330
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Posted - 2014.02.21 18:16:00 -
[9] - Quote
For me its not meta. Its still beta. We might not need a respec, but we certainly deserve one.
Streaming Live - #DUST514 - 33 million Skill Points - 5 KDR
http://www.twitch.tv/rnd_jungian/
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Baltazar Pontain
Phantom Universe Task Force Die Fremdenlegion
82
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Posted - 2014.02.21 18:17:00 -
[10] - Quote
Vespasian Andendare wrote:I'm curious to find out how other Mercs feel about the constatntly monthly-shifting FOTM meta.
We all have played "AR 514," "MD 514," and now we're playing "RR 514." This is largely due to the monthly releases of nerf/buff/new weapon patch cycles. With the new weapons, which seemingly get released in a greatly overpowered state, only to be nerfed into infinity in the next monthly cycle, it shifts the meta to the current hotness, the flavor of the month. There have been numerous flavors of the month, ranging from the examples above to the Flaylock hotness to the era of the Murder Taxis to the reign of the Caldari Logi-Assault.
.....
I totally agree with you and I wonder myself if CCP is testing the stuff they produce.
I mean..
Has reallly no one of CCP felt that the rail rifle is much too strong? Has no one played a match and said WOAH I can shoot and kill all people from far and close, very fast, very precise. .... mhhh that could be not balanced...
Did nobody had that feeling at CCP before release?
I have the feeling they are skipping testing. I do not know the reason. Maybe they are missing some sort of sisi server for dust514 or time is lacking, but please change your workflow. |
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Vespasian Andendare
Subsonic Synthesis RISE of LEGION
586
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Posted - 2014.02.22 19:13:00 -
[11] - Quote
Jungian wrote:For me its not meta. Its still beta. We might not need a respec, but we certainly deserve one. The game does very much feel like a beta, so I'm really curious why CCP felt they had to move it out of beta whenever they did, especially considering how long some products stay in beta nowadays. I think more people would be more forgiving if Dust was still in beta, at least officially.
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Heimdallr69
Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance
1628
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Posted - 2014.02.22 19:16:00 -
[12] - Quote
To me it's not fotm..it's oh that guy killed me with this so I'll use it..much like cod.
Removed inappropriate content - CCP Logibro
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Operative 1171 Aajli
Bragian Order Amarr Empire
1293
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Posted - 2014.02.22 19:22:00 -
[13] - Quote
Baltazar Pontain wrote:Vespasian Andendare wrote:I'm curious to find out how other Mercs feel about the constatntly monthly-shifting FOTM meta.
We all have played "AR 514," "MD 514," and now we're playing "RR 514." This is largely due to the monthly releases of nerf/buff/new weapon patch cycles. With the new weapons, which seemingly get released in a greatly overpowered state, only to be nerfed into infinity in the next monthly cycle, it shifts the meta to the current hotness, the flavor of the month. There have been numerous flavors of the month, ranging from the examples above to the Flaylock hotness to the era of the Murder Taxis to the reign of the Caldari Logi-Assault.
..... I totally agree with you and I wonder myself if CCP is testing the stuff they produce. I mean.. Has reallly no one of CCP felt that the rail rifle is much too strong? Has no one played a match and said WOAH I can shoot and kill all people from far and close, very fast, very precise. .... mhhh that could be not balanced... Did nobody had that feeling at CCP before release? I have the feeling they are skipping testing. I do not know the reason. Maybe they are missing some sort of sisi server for dust514 or time is lacking, but please change your workflow.
They can not have a public test server. Sony won't let them. As to things like the RR; if it breaks lore it is broke. I don't care if the RR does 1 point of damage. If that is more at close range than from far it is not in line with the racial concept for the weapon. Why make the thing long range to fit with Caldari combat philosophy if it does just as good at close range? If that be the case then the Gal AR needs to have a longer range.
Rommel, you magnificent bastard, I read your book!
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BMSTUBBY
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
646
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Posted - 2014.02.22 19:23:00 -
[14] - Quote
CCP needs to keep the FOTM chasers around to keep earning that $$$$$. There will always be a FOTM.
Besides that they need to keep collecting Beta Data so that maybe some day when they decide to re release this lol F2P lobby shooter it may be some what balanced.
But mostly because $$$$.
Meh, F2P Lobby Shooter BattleDuty 514
Working as intended.
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Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
13160
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Posted - 2014.02.22 19:29:00 -
[15] - Quote
As an omni soldier I am always FOTM.
CPM 0 Secretary
Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist
\\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
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The Eristic
Sad Panda Solutions
213
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Posted - 2014.02.22 19:40:00 -
[16] - Quote
I think CCP continually underestimates just how ego-driven the FPS demographic is. They don't tend to approach this game with the "I'll build a character that interests me and see if I can make it work/fulfill a role in the game world" mindset of (MMO)RPG players; rather, a "MUST WIN, KDR > ALL BROHAM" mentality, which leads to homogeneity for periods as gear balance shifts. I almost believe that CCP only tests from the former perspective, thinking "oh, the RR is meant for long range, nobody would ever use a long range weapon intentionally for hipfire spam from 10m... right?" It's as though they don't expect people to exploit glaring potential imbalances.
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Michael Arck
Onuoto Uakan Huogaatsu Lokun Listamenn
3282
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Posted - 2014.02.22 19:44:00 -
[17] - Quote
Some parts of the forum or some threads rather; I have learned to take with a grain of salt.
Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu.
Are you OUKH?
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COVERT SUBTERFUGE
PSU GHOST SYNDICATE DARKSTAR ARMY
311
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Posted - 2014.02.22 19:46:00 -
[18] - Quote
I spec into what I enjoy playing. I don't care AT ALL for FotM chumps, they are weak minded people looking for shortcuts and ultimately getting burned.
Subterfuge and terrorist GOD in the making
Proud Minmatar - Alt of THE GREY CARDINAL
Love the Art of War
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Darken-Soul
BIG BAD W0LVES
1052
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Posted - 2014.02.22 19:47:00 -
[19] - Quote
There will always be a carrot.
Who wants some?
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Scheneighnay McBob
Learning Coalition College
4111
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Posted - 2014.02.22 19:57:00 -
[20] - Quote
No matter what the FOTM is, there is always some kind of counter to it; no matter how weak. I try to exploit that weakness.
Rail rifles may be super cheap, but they still have the weakness of the slight charge delay. If I can catch one off guard, a shotgun blast to the face can usually kill them before they charge.
I am your scan error.
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Rizlax Yazzax
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
65
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Posted - 2014.02.22 20:19:00 -
[21] - Quote
Baltazar Pontain wrote:Vespasian Andendare wrote:I'm curious to find out how other Mercs feel about the constatntly monthly-shifting FOTM meta.
*Snip*
..... I totally agree with you and I wonder myself if CCP is testing the stuff they produce. I mean.. Has reallly no one of CCP felt that the rail rifle is much too strong? Has no one played a match and said WOAH I can shoot and kill all people from far and close, very fast, very precise. .... mhhh that could be not balanced... Did nobody had that feeling at CCP before release? I have the feeling they are skipping testing. I do not know the reason. Maybe they are missing some sort of sisi server for dust514 or time is lacking, but please change your workflow.
Some of the issues are surely under testing, but from what I understand there is only a small group of Devs to test new items/fixes. While this provides basic data, it in no way compares to thousands of battles over the course of several days/weeks. I believe they release items as OP in an attempt to be on the safe side, which is a huge mistake considering they have no way to predict the impact it will have on a large scale.
As for the OP, yes FOTM cycles are annoying and most likely preventable. While irritating I have noticed things are dying down now as some start to get bored and move to other weapons. As well as people adapting to the new situation, things aren't too far off from balance. When the situation was at its peak I took a couple weeks break, easier than raging as I liquidate my assets.
I can't read that back without thinking it sounds douchey but it's not intended and I'm not rewriting it so............meh. |
Chunky Munkey
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
3175
|
Posted - 2014.02.22 20:30:00 -
[22] - Quote
Buster Friently wrote:Vespasian Andendare wrote:I'm curious to find out how other Mercs feel about the constatntly monthly-shifting FOTM meta.
We all have played "AR 514," "MD 514," and now we're playing "RR 514." This is largely due to the monthly releases of nerf/buff/new weapon patch cycles. With the new weapons, which seemingly get released in a greatly overpowered state, only to be nerfed into infinity in the next monthly cycle, it shifts the meta to the current hotness, the flavor of the month. There have been numerous flavors of the month, ranging from the examples above to the Flaylock hotness to the era of the Murder Taxis to the reign of the Caldari Logi-Assault. There has never been "MD 514", and "RR 514" is just more AR 514. Even when MDs were useful, AR users outnumbered MD users by 10 to 1. In fact, AR users outnumbered all other weapon users combined if you ignore snipers. The same is true for Flaylocks. The Flaylock has never even been the most popular sidearm. What you guys are seeing as the FOTM is actually a second order issue because the flavor of the game has always been AR. We now have new ARs, but it's still AR 514 - meaning high dps, med to long range effective hitscan weapons with too much AimAssist. The hitscan weapons need to be toned down. Simple as that.
They're assault rifles, they're supposed to be popular. Everything else is a niche or a specialty.
You lost credibility when you said there was no Flaylock FOTM.
No.
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Pvt Numnutz
Black Phoenix Mercenaries
803
|
Posted - 2014.02.22 20:49:00 -
[23] - Quote
Currently we are playing tank 514/CR 514. Anyway the cycle is broken so no more fotm. |
Fiddlestaxp
TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback
403
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Posted - 2014.02.22 20:56:00 -
[24] - Quote
Buster Friently wrote:Vespasian Andendare wrote:I'm curious to find out how other Mercs feel about the constatntly monthly-shifting FOTM meta.
We all have played "AR 514," "MD 514," and now we're playing "RR 514." This is largely due to the monthly releases of nerf/buff/new weapon patch cycles. With the new weapons, which seemingly get released in a greatly overpowered state, only to be nerfed into infinity in the next monthly cycle, it shifts the meta to the current hotness, the flavor of the month. There have been numerous flavors of the month, ranging from the examples above to the Flaylock hotness to the era of the Murder Taxis to the reign of the Caldari Logi-Assault. There has never been "MD 514", and "RR 514" is just more AR 514. Even when MDs were useful, AR users outnumbered MD users by 10 to 1. In fact, AR users outnumbered all other weapon users combined if you ignore snipers. The same is true for Flaylocks. The Flaylock has never even been the most popular sidearm. What you guys are seeing as the FOTM is actually a second order issue because the flavor of the game has always been AR. We now have new ARs, but it's still AR 514 - meaning high dps, med to long range effective hitscan weapons with too much AimAssist. The hitscan weapons need to be toned down. Simple as that.
I agree that there never was an MD 514... At the mass driver's high point, it only ever saw 15-20% usage in high level matches. Flaylock and contact gernades were a different story. They were overpowered and were spammed.
Hitscan weapons need a 20-30% nerf to make this game fun again. Right now the game is a less fun call of duty with maps that aren't designed for the instant kill from 50+meters gib fest that auto aim made it into |
Alternate Insano
SUICIDE SPITE SQUAD
150
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Posted - 2014.02.22 21:06:00 -
[25] - Quote
Actually, it's SCRUB 514. Anyone who wants a good game actually goes to Walmart and pays 60 bucks for it. The rest download this game for free, can't figure out the basic strategy to win (i.e. buy the new stuff instead of cry about it), and then hop on board the QQ Express and take a ride around the forums with their scrub homies.
Also, I've been here for over a month now. Where's the new Flavor? Or is that just some term a bunch of tards throw around to make them feel like they don't lose because they suck?
DUST 514 Super Scrub
Level 262 Forum Troll
Play, or play not. There is no balance.
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Ryme Intrinseca
Fatal Absolution
775
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Posted - 2014.02.22 21:07:00 -
[26] - Quote
Hate the Godmode lottery. Gives the impression CCP aren't even trying to balance the game. From the Tac AR and Calogi of old to the modern day invincible tanks, they have a track record of making stuff as obviously OP as they can.
Maybe CCP think they're being clever by making people buy boosters to get into the FOTM. But the core playerbase will buy boosters anyway, and the constant imbalance one way or the other just means they eventually come on a build they can't stand and let their boosters expire and stop playing. Meanwhile, new players get stomped hard because they don't have SP stored up to spec the FOTM, and never buy even one booster before they leave.
CCP - if you make Dust a decent FPS, with boosters a nice-to-have, not a necessity, it will monetize itself. You won't make money by leaving the game in a constantly unbalanced state for the sake of shoving boosters down people's throats - quite the contrary. /rant |
Tech Ohm Eaven
L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
1304
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Posted - 2014.02.22 21:10:00 -
[27] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:As an omni soldier I am always FOTM. remember when back in 1.6 I asked you why the rail rifles had a need of such good hipfire. I said it was another flavor of when the tac ar was op.
your response was a basic stfu about rail rifles .
maybe next time when folks point out a vehicle or weapon imbalance then maybe try LISTENING?
Abandon Ship!, Abandon Ship!!
Jumps into escape pod!
Selected destination Planet PS4.
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Meeko Fent
Kirkinen Risk Control Caldari State
1770
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Posted - 2014.02.22 21:27:00 -
[28] - Quote
Honestly, I've not really experienced this "RR 514"
Just the damn tank spam. But from my experience, I have not had a major issue with the "HolyWafflesBBQOPQQCCPHAVLOLROFLWTF RR"
Looking for a Interesting Character Name?
Why Not Zoidberg?
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Buster Friently
Rosen Association
1839
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Posted - 2014.02.23 02:20:00 -
[29] - Quote
Chunky Munkey wrote:Buster Friently wrote:Vespasian Andendare wrote:I'm curious to find out how other Mercs feel about the constatntly monthly-shifting FOTM meta.
We all have played "AR 514," "MD 514," and now we're playing "RR 514." This is largely due to the monthly releases of nerf/buff/new weapon patch cycles. With the new weapons, which seemingly get released in a greatly overpowered state, only to be nerfed into infinity in the next monthly cycle, it shifts the meta to the current hotness, the flavor of the month. There have been numerous flavors of the month, ranging from the examples above to the Flaylock hotness to the era of the Murder Taxis to the reign of the Caldari Logi-Assault. There has never been "MD 514", and "RR 514" is just more AR 514. Even when MDs were useful, AR users outnumbered MD users by 10 to 1. In fact, AR users outnumbered all other weapon users combined if you ignore snipers. The same is true for Flaylocks. The Flaylock has never even been the most popular sidearm. What you guys are seeing as the FOTM is actually a second order issue because the flavor of the game has always been AR. We now have new ARs, but it's still AR 514 - meaning high dps, med to long range effective hitscan weapons with too much AimAssist. The hitscan weapons need to be toned down. Simple as that. They're assault rifles, they're supposed to be popular. Everything else is a niche or a specialty. You lost credibility when you said there was no Flaylock FOTM.
Flaylock was never OP, not FOTM. CCP over reacted. It was useful in it's niche, and that is all. (True, AR* users would just close distance and subsequently get killed, just like they do with shotguns, knives, anything that is niche really. AR* users don't recognize niches, and think the AR* should be at least even no matter the circumstances) The submachine gun has always been the sidearm of choice, even during the great Flaylock panic of AR users.
There should be no generalist weapon in Dust. The very existence of generalist weapons is one of the primary factors that has dumbed down dust, reduced tactical options, and made the game boring. All weapons should be niche weapons, it's as simple as that, unless you like the current AR 514* where there's just one infantry role, one infantry weapon, and one infantry tactic (barring those that people choose just because they'd rather not be sheep, but are certainly a disadvantage). To me, that's the definition of a subpar game and a cookie cutter effort at best.
I'm not super concerned with your measure of what constitutes credibility.
*AR 514 - medium to long range, hitscan weapons, capable of very high dps and virtually no short range deficits, i.e EZ mode. |
Ryme Intrinseca
Fatal Absolution
779
|
Posted - 2014.02.23 11:20:00 -
[30] - Quote
Buster Friently wrote:Chunky Munkey wrote:Buster Friently wrote:Vespasian Andendare wrote:I'm curious to find out how other Mercs feel about the constatntly monthly-shifting FOTM meta.
We all have played "AR 514," "MD 514," and now we're playing "RR 514." This is largely due to the monthly releases of nerf/buff/new weapon patch cycles. With the new weapons, which seemingly get released in a greatly overpowered state, only to be nerfed into infinity in the next monthly cycle, it shifts the meta to the current hotness, the flavor of the month. There have been numerous flavors of the month, ranging from the examples above to the Flaylock hotness to the era of the Murder Taxis to the reign of the Caldari Logi-Assault. There has never been "MD 514", and "RR 514" is just more AR 514. Even when MDs were useful, AR users outnumbered MD users by 10 to 1. In fact, AR users outnumbered all other weapon users combined if you ignore snipers. The same is true for Flaylocks. The Flaylock has never even been the most popular sidearm. What you guys are seeing as the FOTM is actually a second order issue because the flavor of the game has always been AR. We now have new ARs, but it's still AR 514 - meaning high dps, med to long range effective hitscan weapons with too much AimAssist. The hitscan weapons need to be toned down. Simple as that. They're assault rifles, they're supposed to be popular. Everything else is a niche or a specialty. You lost credibility when you said there was no Flaylock FOTM. Flaylock was never OP. CCP over reacted. It was useful in it's niche, and that is all. (True, AR* users would just close distance and subsequently get killed, just like they do with shotguns, knives, anything that is niche really. AR* users don't recognize niches, and think the AR* should be at least even odds no matter the circumstances) The submachine gun has always been the sidearm of choice, even during the great Flaylock panic of AR users. There should be no generalist weapon in Dust. The very existence of generalist weapons is one of the primary factors that has dumbed down dust, reduced tactical options, and made the game boring. All weapons should be niche weapons, it's as simple as that, unless you like the current AR 514* where there's just one infantry role, one infantry weapon, and one infantry tactic (barring those that people choose just because they'd rather not be sheep, but are certainly a disadvantage). To me, that's the definition of a subpar game and a cookie cutter effort at best. I'm not super concerned with your measure of what constitutes credibility. The hitscan weapons do need to be toned down, or Dust needs to get billed as another mindless twitch shooter, as is the case currently. *AR 514 - medium to long range, hitscan weapons, capable of very high dps and virtually no short range deficits, i.e EZ mode. Twin flaylock fits dominated at short to short-medium range. Even if the non-FL user got the drop on the FL, the FL user just had to turn and start spamming anywhere near the opponent's feet and they'd win the engagement. This is due to the smoke and blast throwing off the enemy's aim, while the FL user just had to land his shots somewhere in the general vicinity. All that in a sidearm. It was very, very OP. |
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