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Baal Roo
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
2987
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Posted - 2014.02.16 01:07:00 -
[61] - Quote
INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC wrote: I have to agree, mobile cant compete with 7.1 surround, hd, 3d or 72inch screens, not to mention controls, Im not saying it wont be there, but it wont dominate, oh and lets not forget gaming chairs with beer.... If ccp went to ps4 wouldnt that cut the player base up? I mean the guy on the ps3 cant play onlline with the guy with the ps4 correct? That seems as good of a reason as any to wait considering player totals.
Again, considering the fact that the PS4 is already only on par with relatively low-end budget PC gaming rigs, in a few short years it can be assumed that mobile devices will be catching up to the PS4 in terms of power. Also, again, a tablet can be hooked up to a 72" tv just as easily as a PS4 can, and can also use a bluetooth controller just as easily as a PS4 can.
So, if in 5 years you can buy a PS4 for $300, or you can buy a tablet that's just as powerful for $400-500, that also plugs into the tv, and can also use a bluetooth game controller... but has all the advantages of also being a tablet that you can unplug from the TV and carry around the house and use as a normal tablet, which device do you think the average consumer is going to find more attractive?
Remember, we're not talking about people who want the best graphics or the most games (because those requirements lead a person to a gaming PC), we're talking about the more casual audience that just wants to play a videogame now and then, watch some netflix, and doesn't really care if they're getting "the best" experience. I think those people, the bulk of the console demographic, are going to move more and more towards the devices that offer the most functionality. |
COVERT SUBTERFUGE
PSU GHOST SYNDICATE DARKSTAR ARMY
233
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Posted - 2014.02.16 01:23:00 -
[62] - Quote
Baal Roo wrote:COVERT SUBTERFUGE wrote:Buster Friently wrote: Sure thing. Look me up in 2 years.
Hardcore gamers are on PC already. Consoles have, for their existence, been the low hanging fruit, i.e the cheaper, easier, lesser alternative to PCs. Guess what fills that niche now? yeah mobile. All the AAA developers are already in the process of transferring their development to where the most possible customers are - mobile. That means you're going to be seeing a lot more ports from mobile, i.e. Android, onto the consoles, just like we've seen for consoles -> PCs for the last decade.
Console users are already the minority in terms of numbers, and worse yet, they're now sandwiched between the high end PC users (small number, but willing to pay a lot) and the mobile users (very large numbers, but willing to pay less). this trend is only going to accelerate as mobile becomes more powerful.
How old is an "old" mobile device? One year? Two? Consoles can not maintain a 10, or even 5 year cycle anymore. By then, Mobile devices will out power even the current generation of consoles, let alone, the last gen.
I'm sorry, but Consoles are on their way to niche much faster that most people realize.
This is just one of the reasons that Dust should move to PC. The PC high end will likely survive for much longer.
Those who think mobile is going to destroy the console market are cute. Seriously. Can't help but think that.people who hold this belief are so out of touch with gaming. That's maybe the most ironic statement I've seen yet. It's not uncommon to hear industry insiders already speculating that this might be the last generation of consoles as we currently understand them. Heck, Microsoft's own board of directors have been slowly pushing the company to ditch the xbox entirely. Developers have already made it clear that their preferred platforms are PC and Mobile gaming. The pure output of critically acclaimed titles released on PC has dwarfed those released on consoles for half a decade now. Where we see on average somewhere in the range of 5-10 exclusives per console with a metacritic score at 75 or above, there are 45-50 PC exclusives each year with a 75 or above rating. Furthermore, more people currently game on mobile devices than own consoles. I'm not by any means a "hater" of consoles, as I've already pointed out, I'm here discussing a game on a console from 8 years ago. I play my PS3 multiple times a week. However, my own gaming habits don't change the facts as they stand. Consoles have had the penetration rate they've had due to the casual gaming market, and that market is trending to spending their money more and more often on tablet devices. As those devices reach parity with the PS4 in the next 3-5 years, Sony will either have to release a new more powerful PS5, or see a further loss of marketshare and an even less interest from game developers than they already have. So again, if we're talking about what makes the most sense for a game that has a supposed "10 year plan," would you really think that spending the next 1-2 years porting the game to a system that will most likely be antiquated in 5 or so years really make the most sense? That means in another 4-6 years towards their 10 year plan they will AGAIN have to port the game over to yet another system, that will yet again have to gain an install base. To me, that just doesn't make sense. I'm not saying PS4 isn't a decent platform for the short term vision of a company looking to make a one-shot title in the next 2-4 years, but any point past that and the PS4 is going to start looking similar to how the PS3 and Xbox 360 are looking now.
I don't believe any market is going to decimate any other. It's like saying movie theatres will go out of business because of Netflix. I started on the Commodore 64, Sega Mastersystem, Mega Drive, SNES, PS1, PS2, PS3...Demographically I am the average gamer and I grew up playing on a big screen with a controller and that's how I want to play. There are about 180 million last gen gamers who I'm pretty sure aren't planning to move to tablet and nearing 10 million people who have already bought into the PS4 or XB1 in the first 3 months of this current gen of consoles.
You cannot emulate the console experience on a mobile device. Convenience is NEVER EVER going to become more appealing than the home theatre experience of playing a game on my 46" TV and surround sound system to me. Mobile gaming has a future, but it isn't THE future so long as there are people like me who don't want to **** around on a tablet for my gaming.
Regarding future development...the biggest issue now is that DUST is on an antiquated Unreal engine programmed for the CELL architecture of the PS3. Once it is ported to X86 architecture currently used in PS4 and on a new engine (maybe Unreal 4) it will be future proof and porting it won't be a hassle. Sony probably won't have a PS5, rather just PS Now, streaming it's entire catalog to 3rd party devices (as it's set to do later this year).
Subterfuge and terrorist GOD in the making
Proud Minmatar - Alt of THE GREY CARDINAL
Love the Art of War
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Lance 2ballzStrong
SyNergy Gaming EoN.
4732
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Posted - 2014.02.16 01:23:00 -
[63] - Quote
Exodeon Salviej wrote:._. How is that bad news? They most likely are going to keep this game on ps3 for the next 2-4 years. And then move it over when it needs to be. Besides, that's LONGER than the ps2 lasted...MUCH longer. Even though the ps4 would be better for the game hardware wise; they wouldn't move it over instantly because of that, and that just gives me all the more reason to wait a while before I get a ps4. I won't be buying one unless it has DUST on it. ._.
Won't buy a PS4 unless it has DUST on it? LOOOOOOOOOOL!
( ._.) <('.'<)
"There there Mr. Heavy, it's not your fault CCP doesn't care about you"
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The Robot Devil
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
1639
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Posted - 2014.02.16 01:34:00 -
[64] - Quote
Baal Roo wrote:Christiphoros von Poe wrote: Representatives of the PC master race here with us now? Please sirs... I am not worthy *Holds up keyboard for tribute* Not sure who you're talking about, everyone here obviously plays at least one videogame on PS3. Personally, I'm simply talking about what makes the most sense for a videogame with a supposed "10 year plan." Look, the PS3 is barely going to make it 10 years before Sony drops support for it, and it started out as an alternative to HIGH END PCs, the PS4 is starting it's lifecycle as an alternative to LOW END PCs. In 5 years the PS4 will be further behind the leading edge of gaming technology than the PS3 is now.
The leading edge is a $1100 video card that doesn't include the computer or monitor. No, a PS4 can't compete with a high end because if I choose to spend $3,500 on a gaming rig then it is going to be 10x faster than a console. I just paid $300 for a video card that will blow a PS out of the water. Each type of game machine -phone, PC, handheld, console- all have an equally important niche to fill and they shouldn't be lumped into one big pile.
4k,1080, 720 and all other formats in between only allow you make the screen larger. If you are running below a 40 inch then it wont matter to you and you'll just have to stand really close because the image will be smaller.
Although 1080p has several faces, as a consumer, don't let this confuse you. If you are considering the purchase of an HDTV smaller than 40-inches, the actual visual difference between the three main high definition resolutions, 1080p, 1080i, and 720p are minimal if noticeable at all.
The larger the screen size, the more noticeable the difference between 1080p and other resolutions. If you are considering a purchase of an HDTV with a screen size of 40-inches or larger, go for 1080p if you can afford it, and also consider a set that has 1080p/24 capability.
Screen sizes
I used to repair digital and HD televisions, I was trained by SONY and an engineer who helped design Panasonic's plasma TVs. If a TV is under around 46 inches then the chances are that it doesn't even have the necessary parts to be 1080. It may 1080 on the box, have a 1080 input or setting, and the 1080 input signal may actually make the screen change in some way when switched between 1080 and 720 but it is a trick done by a scaler.
These cables and that board are missing in TVs under 1080. The TVs are physically missing components that make them 1080. That was about 4 years or so ago so some things may have changed and I can't speak for OLED televisions but for LCD, led LCD and plasma most under 46 inches those parts. I do have direct technical experience and manufacturer led training on HD televisions and a degree in electronics.
"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus."
Raoul Duke
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Baal Roo
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
2987
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Posted - 2014.02.16 02:26:00 -
[65] - Quote
COVERT SUBTERFUGE wrote: You cannot emulate the console experience on a mobile device. Convenience is NEVER EVER going to become more appealing than the home theatre experience of playing a game on my 46" TV and surround sound system to me. Mobile gaming has a future, but it isn't THE future so long as there are people like me who don't want to **** around on a tablet for my gaming.
And again, tablets can hook up to a TV just like a console can. In a few years when tablets are just as powerful as a PS4, and probably not that much more expensive. Why would the casual user pick the console that only does one thing over the tablet that can do both?
The Robot Devil wrote:Baal Roo wrote:Christiphoros von Poe wrote: Representatives of the PC master race here with us now? Please sirs... I am not worthy *Holds up keyboard for tribute* Not sure who you're talking about, everyone here obviously plays at least one videogame on PS3. Personally, I'm simply talking about what makes the most sense for a videogame with a supposed "10 year plan." Look, the PS3 is barely going to make it 10 years before Sony drops support for it, and it started out as an alternative to HIGH END PCs, the PS4 is starting it's lifecycle as an alternative to LOW END PCs. In 5 years the PS4 will be further behind the leading edge of gaming technology than the PS3 is now. The leading edge is a $1100 video card that doesn't include the computer or monitor. No, a PS4 can't compete with a high end because if I choose to spend $3,500 on a gaming rig then it is going to be 10x faster than a console. I just paid $300 for a video card that will blow a PS out of the water. Each type of game machine -phone, PC, handheld, console- all have an equally important niche to fill and they shouldn't be lumped into one big pile.
Yes, the leading edge gaming tech is always going to be very expensive, but even the average $500 gaming PC will already outperform the PS4, so imagine what $300-500 will get you in 5 years time. Further more, you don't include the price of a monitor into the price of the game system, otherwise you need to add the cost of your TV into the cost of a PS4. If you respond with "I've already got a TV"... then why would you add the cost of a monitor for the PC? You've already got a TV you can use it on.
I don't know why everyone wants to turn this conversation into a big general console vs PC debate, because that has not been my intent. But frankly, the hypothetical $3,500 PC is nothing more than a red herring. When talking simply in the basic price range of "next gen" consoles, PCs are already more powerful. Even still, that's also not my point. This isn't a "should I buy a PC or a console?" thread.
I don't see any reason to continue repeating myself, because I've already addressed these issues that people keep bringing up. It's highly unrealistic to expect the PS4 to last anywhere close to 10 years, and since CCP claims to want to continue supporting this game for 10+ years, it seems like a poor choice to port it to a console that is expected to have a relatively short shelf life. |
Rynoceros
Rise Of Old Dudes
2537
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Posted - 2014.02.16 02:52:00 -
[66] - Quote
When the dude said, "Laser Focused" you could almost hear a collective sigh throughout the playerbase. If they still aren't prepping for a move to PS4, with a confirmation at FanFest, it will be a death sentence for any sort of profitability in the near future.
I GÖú Kittens.
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Aeon Amadi
Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance
4918
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Posted - 2014.02.16 03:07:00 -
[67] - Quote
Th3rdSun wrote:http://www.slashgear.com/playstation-3-has-2-4-years-left-in-it-according-to-sony-11316546/
So if CCP is sticking to their guns of being "laser focused" on developing for the PS3,this game is most definitely doomed.Oh,and the whole "five year roadmap" is pretty much out the window as well.
CCP,it's PS4 or bust for this game,you have to know that,right?
There's a thing called context.
""We believe that the platform has a lot of life left in it. Two, three, four years; we think there's time left in the platform. It depends on the content. We have a good lineup this year and it looks like a good lineup next year. We need to keep fueling that.
We really have to keep PS3 alive.
And so to do that, we have to further the content. I think there will be a good story for the PS3 over the next year to two years." - Sony hardware marketing executive John Koller"
Useful Links
//forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=133588
//forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=134182
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Atikali Havendoorr
Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation
55
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Posted - 2014.02.16 03:35:00 -
[68] - Quote
The Dreamcast got games released for it several years after its discontinuation. And that didn't even sell well.
CommanderBolt wrote:Dust should have been a PC game, DUST 514 can still come to PC. The way I see it IF CCP really actually wants DUST to be a long term game like EVE was then the PC really is the only platform for that.
I think CCP were conned or got greedy and thought they could break into the console shooter market. That has obviously not gone well for them.
I mean come on I would guess 1/3 to 1/2 of the players that play dust regularly are people that outright bought a PS3 mainly because of dust. Those of us that were EVE players. The other half are probably old MAG vets that heard that DUST would offer something similar to MAG.
So again, If CCP really wants this game to last many years then PC is the only way forwards , that's unless they have been developing for the PS4 in secret but I highly doubt that. Well, it could help if CCP actually finished the game. I don't play on PC (anymore) and haven't played MAG, and yet I consider myself pretty hardcore. |
Atikali Havendoorr
Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation
55
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Posted - 2014.02.16 03:37:00 -
[69] - Quote
Baal Roo wrote:*compressed* When you say that, I - sadly - have to agree. Back at the consoles release, I was thinking it was somewhat the best of the two worlds you are referring to. But nowGǪ
Here in the Nordic countries the Xbone isn't released, and the PS4 is virtually unavailable unless you have pre-ordered one, and in the rare occurrences you actually just can walk into a store and get one, you have to pay a large premium. I have seen up to double the recommended retail price.
There aren't many games to play either, and none of those available are anything enthusiastic. (making the high demand now illogical)
By the time the machines becomes widely available, and there will be any games worth buying it for (which applies to all territories), the machine is -+-1 year old already. Sony might as well have released it this summer, and then they could instead put in AMDs new Kaveri chip, thus making it significantly stronger and easier to program to, and maybe also a graphics chip from the new Volcanic Islands GPU family. It would be hotter, but it has to differentiate from mobile gaming. Some might argue that there's always something newer around the corner, but this time it will take a whole year before anything new will arrive. Intel have newly postponed the launch of the Broadwell architecture to the end of the year, and Nvidia and AMD have made it clear before that new stuff wont arrive until the end of the year, and that it will mostly be smaller batches of middleclass products. AMDs new CPU wont arrive until 2015.
So when the PS4 will reach it's de facto release, it will definitely be outdated.
However, consoles have one ace, one thing that neither PC nor handhelds have: (convenient) local multiplayer gaming. Having a few friends over and play, for example, icehockey together is impossible on a tablet or phone, and inconvinient on a PC. Alternate playing styles like Playstation move shouldn't be dismissed either. Having a consistent platform to rely on, Move can really bloom. These two things combined gives a great experience, and can't be replicated on PCs or handhelds.
I see your point in consoles being in a weird and antiquated middle area.
On the other hand it seems like MS and Sony have put effort on the consoles strong areas, namely being a media hub in the living room (Xbone) and heavily develop the social gaming part (PS4), so I think they are still relevant. I love consoles, but even I felt that it might be over very soon, before the PS4 was presented. When the PS4 was presented though, I changed my mind. I think that what Sony showed, they really try to push the consoles forward. But this middle place thing might seals their fate in the end. It is very hard to tell when you think about it. Noone really knows how far the computation power and gaming on tablets and phones will go. Maybe the tech development will continue unabated and gaming on mobiles will grow and evolve into a new level. Maybe there will be obstacles showing up not too far from now, and slow things down and settle things on a not all that greater magnitude from what we see now. We don't know. On PC, tech development is halting. The new smaller fabric processes doesn't generate the same amount of gains as it historically have, and in some cases actually could end in a small _cost_. Add to that the fact that the PC market in general is in decline.
If consoles really do become squeezed to a slow death, where will those gamers go? Where will that type of gaming go? Sitting in a couch in the living room with a big screen and room for all mates? Possibly with some good speakers already for the movie nights. Or in the armchair or bed in the kids room, with his/hers friends? And all that partygaming, musicgaming and wild gestures gaming? Will they all move to a tablet and play in their loneliness? Or go to a PC and just sit there with their headphones? Will this kind of gaming just die?
And don't think so. And I see what possibly could fill the void. Steam machine. Steam has already built up a solid gaming platform and could be the thing that eventually replaces the consoles. On the other hand, it might not at all be a threat, since Valve have departed much from their original ideas behind this. At first it was a console like PC, with a few configuration levels which developers could aim their games tech specs at, making it easier for no-techies to get along, i.e. console gamers. Remember, there are hardcore gamers who don't know **** about tech, and those usually play on consoles. With a platform like that, they could also decide for a few peripherals to go with to make a standard for gamers and developers alike to follow, giving a predictability and stability to ensure there are customers who can utilize the gaming idea, making more developers interested in making games with alternate interaction, and for gamers knowing that they can use the peripherals with many other games in a consistent and easy way, thus replicating console gaming. But now Steam machine is just another random branded PC, failing the whole thing.
But I strongly disagree with some of your arguments. Compatibility doesn't go back to the 80's on a PC, it's usually more like 10 years at its best, usually more like 5, since support for XP has been dropped. Still not bad, but not that overwhelmingly. Beyond that, you have to use older OS' on older machines or emulators, which does not count as backwards compatibility. And I oppose with your statement that the best quality gaming experience is the PC. PC and consoles are both equal quality gaming experiences, just different kinds. Unless you count the tech specs as the sole quality measure, but that doesn't equal fun or more general game quality. On the other hand, maybe you already have the Steam thing in your mindset, thus partly validating your thesis. |
Th3rdSun
L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
592
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Posted - 2014.02.16 15:50:00 -
[70] - Quote
The Robot Devil wrote:Th3rdSun wrote:http://www.slashgear.com/playstation-3-has-2-4-years-left-in-it-according-to-sony-11316546/
So if CCP is sticking to their guns of being "laser focused" on developing for the PS3,this game is most definitely doomed.Oh,and the whole "five year roadmap" is pretty much out the window as well.
CCP,it's PS4 or bust for this game,you have to know that,right? Doesn't mean much. PES 20142-4 years of of support from SONY, the console is not going to stop working in 2-4 years. CCP can support the game for years after that if the want to. The PS3 is still the best place for DUST, if we ported over to PS4 right now it would probably kill DUST for good. Any steam box or enyo isn't going to hurt PS much, Xboxone isn't up to par and I don't think they will be going to PC so we are here and are probably going to stay here for the next 2-3 years.
Well,it will mean a whole lot if cutting support for PS3 includes cutting PSN from the system so they can focus more on support for their PS4 infrastructure.
If that happens,and I'm just speculating,that will unabashedly mean the demise of Dust if it hasn't moved to PS4 by then.This,and this alone is the entire point of this thread.
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