DUST Search - Potentially troubling news for DUST 514

Tech Ohm Eaven wrote:

Baal Roo wrote:

Tech Ohm Eaven wrote:

Buster Friently wrote:

Th3rdSun wrote:

http://www.slashgear.com/playstation-3-has-2-4-years-left-in-it-according-to-sony-11316546/

So if CCP is sticking to their guns of being "laser focused" on developing for the PS3,this game is most definitely doomed.Oh,and the whole "five year roadmap" is pretty much out the window as well.

CCP,it's PS4 or bust for this game,you have to know that,right?

None of the (now old) generation of consoles are going to even last this long. Mobile is going to eat the console market alive in under two years.

Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha!!

So you expect me to say no to my 2160p 120 inch HDTV and 7.1 sound in favor of a tiny TABLET??

Hell No.

HAWL NOOO!!!

The funny part is that you would apparently "say no to your 2160p HDTV" in favor of a 720p 30 FPS low-end PC (aka "next gen" consoles).

Tablets can plug into a TV just as easily as a console can, and they can connect to a bluetooth controller just as easily as a console can as well.

Frankly, if you were that concerned about having the highest quality gaming experience in terms of graphical fidelity, you wouldn't be playing on consoles in the first place. I'm not personally a "graphics hound," but if you're making the argument you're making here you need to realize the same argument can be made to marginalize the PS4 as well.

Games designed for a tablet suck.

Games designed for a tablet are not in 4k resolution now nor will they be so two years from now.


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Baal Roo Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2976	Posted - 2014.02.15 00:09:00 - [1] - Quote Yeah, they should totally port to PS4 so that they can have this same problem again in 5 years down the line of their "10 year plan." PC or bust.
Baal Roo Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2977	Posted - 2014.02.15 00:46:00 - [2] - Quote Jacques Cayton II wrote: Baal Roo wrote: Yeah, they should totally port to PS4 so that they can have this same problem again in 5 years down the line of their "10 year plan." PC or bust. on pc it would have same problems the problem is vacation days. Btw ps4 can play planetside two in what was it super mode or something? whatever it can run on that a ok but some pcs cant s shush Could you maybe try that again in english? The problem I'm pointing out is that PS4 is basically a low-end budget level PC. Unlike PS3, which was actually sold at a loss and on par with relatively high-end PCs at the time, the PS4 isn't likely going to have the same sort of long term shelf life. For a company that wants to have a "long term vision" for their game, spending all of that time porting to a system that's already limited in what it can offer and expected to be replaced again before their "vision" for the game is fully realized doesn't make a lot of sense. They've already made this mistake once, it would be kind of ridiculous to see them make it a second time. My intent here isn't to disparage the PS4, I'm just pointing out the potential problem of moving to PS4 for this particular sort of project.
Baal Roo Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2978	Posted - 2014.02.15 01:20:00 - [3] - Quote Zahle Undt wrote: Baal Roo wrote: Jacques Cayton II wrote: Baal Roo wrote: Yeah, they should totally port to PS4 so that they can have this same problem again in 5 years down the line of their "10 year plan." PC or bust. on pc it would have same problems the problem is vacation days. Btw ps4 can play planetside two in what was it super mode or something? whatever it can run on that a ok but some pcs cant s shush Could you maybe try that again in english? The problem I'm pointing out is that PS4 is basically a low-end budget level PC. Unlike PS3, which was actually sold at a loss and on par with relatively high-end PCs at the time, the PS4 isn't likely going to have the same sort of long term shelf life. For a company that wants to have a "long term vision" for their game, spending all of that time porting to a system that's already limited in what it can offer and expected to be replaced again before their "vision" for the game is fully realized doesn't make a lot of sense. They've already made this mistake once, it would be kind of ridiculous to see them make it a second time. My intent here isn't to disparage the PS4, I'm just pointing out the potential problem of moving to PS4 for this particular sort of project. The whole purpose of Dust 514 is for CCP to break into the console space. They've already got 500,000 paying PC customers, they are trying to make some money off of us console gamers. Then they're going to have to readjust their vision to not include a "10 year plan," because that's going to require them re-porting their game at least a couple of times in that time frame. The idea of taking a "long approach" on a single title, but stringing it out over the life span of 3+ different consoles seems like a really awful plan to me. I do get that CCP is looking to reach a different audience, but it's not like they've already cornered the market on PC. They only have 500,000 subscribers, which for PC gaming is just a tiny little niche of the market. Their bigger concern should just be in making a great game on a platform that is most conducive to the vision that they have. So, if we're talking about porting to a different system, it seems strange to port to one that doesn't line up with that vision. Again, I'm not trying to be disparaging of the PS4, it's a decent device. A bit overprice and underpowered, but not terrible for someone who is on a tight budget and doesn't have the extra $100-$200 to spend on a PC. For the casual gamer who isn't too worried about having a whole ton of games to choose from, backwards compatibility, or upgradability it's a perfectly reasonable purchase. It just isn't a good fit for a company wanting to develop a game iteratively for 10+ years.
Baal Roo Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2980	Posted - 2014.02.15 01:45:00 - [4] - Quote Th3rdSun wrote: Buster Friently wrote: Your first point is good, but it's pretty easy to plug a mobile device in, and there are wireless charging systems as well. As for the small screen? Hmm, Rift? Just one example. Another example would be just, you know, output the video to a "TV" or any monitor. I have a Droid X that's more than a year old that has an HDMI output, and that's not even assuming wireless transfer. None of this really matters though. I'm not super interested in arguing about it per se. I'd just like to point out that the PC is a better target because it will likely weather the storm better. Having said that, Dust is a UDK engine game anyway, so porting is relatively easy. And re: Galaga - at least it was a star at some point. Dust has never been a star. I don't think we are arguing about it,rather having a pretty good debate.I just don't think that mobile gaming will have the technical ability to complete with current gen consoles(PS4 and Xbone) in 2 years.Maybe in 5,but two years seems way too soon,even though mobile phones and tablets have been progressing super fast.I think we'll be hard pressed to think we'll ever see a game like BF4 on PS4 running on any mobile device with the same fidelity that we see on console. I think you're over-estimating the power of the "next gen" consoles, and underestimating the amount of money and research going into developing more powerful "mobile" devices. The PS4 has the power of a budget level $400 PC. In 2-3 years you can expect tablet devices in the $400 range to have that same sort of power (of course, by them the PS4 will probably be $100-150 cheaper than it is now). So, like the PS3 is currently, in 2-3 years the PS4 is going to be the "low end budget gaming device" on the market. Since they're starting out this time so far behind (unlike previous console generations that started out at the top-end of the market), the "shelf life" this time around is likely to be dramatically shorter. Heck, AMD just announced their new budget line of GPUs designed to compete directly with the technical power of the "next gen" consoles, and how much are they going to cost? $100. That means, $50 for the mobo, $50 for the HD, $50 for the RAM, $70 for the CPU, and $100 for GPU and you've got yourself something as powerful as a PS4. That's $320... and that card is launching sometime in the next month. In two years from now, it's completely realistic to expect that price to be nearly half that for those same level components. So, in 3 years when someone can spend $300-400 on a PS4 with a smalll selection of games on it, or drop $400-500 on a PC that greatly outperforms the, by then, antiquated "next gen" consoles is backwards compaitible all the way back to the 80s and is getting about 5x the games released for it, which do you think most "gamers" are going to choose? Furthermore, For those casual people who don't really care that much about gaming, but still want something to play a game on will they choose a $300-$400 machine that only works sitting in the entertainment center plugged into their TV, or are they going to spend $400 or so on the newest Galaxy Tab 5 (or whatever) that's basically just as powerful, has a built in screen and touch support, and can also plug into that same TV and get a similar level of quality? Keep in mind, if these people's number one concern was getting the best quality gaming experience they'd be buying that PC. Personally, I agree with Buster. We're going to see a split in the gaming market that moves more and more towards PC and Mobile. The Console just sits in a wierd and antiquated middle area where it's not really budget conscious, but it's not "enthusiast" quality either. It's sort of the worst of all worlds. Don't get me wrong though, the consoles aren't going anywhere in the next 3-5 years, Sony and Microsoft simply have too much money invested in them to not continue spending millions more on advertising to keep those casual gamers coming back for awhile. I just don't see that advertising budget being able to sustain them past that point, by then these "next gen" consoles are going to be a pretty difficult sale with their low-end performance and lack of utility.
Baal Roo Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2982	Posted - 2014.02.15 01:59:00 - [5] - Quote Zahle Undt wrote: Anyway, like I said Pachter has been going on about mobile and the death of the console for quite sometime now, and yet 2 of the 3 "Next-gen" systems are selling better than any previous console launch. As for your PC gaming numbers, how do you arrive at them? If you go by something liek Steam accounts, well sh!t even I have a Steam account that I don't use and if you go by surveys that ask things like "Have you playeda video game on a PC" then you include my wife and mother-in-law on that list but they aren't buying or playing any AAA games. How is running a game for 10 years on console really much different from running a game franchise for 10 years on a console or 10 years on a PC? I'm sure Eve from 10 years ago is different from Eve today, you don't think work and money went into upgrading the game for upgraded PC specs? Anyway I leave this pointless debate with this http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/3qbcjg The previous console launches were complete disasters though. The main limiting factor for their sells numbers was sheer production limits. There weren't anywhere close to enough consoles to go around... not to mention the fact that since they weren't just low-end PCs with closed off ecosystems, they were actually super difficult for developers to figure out how to make games for them. This meant there were only a small handful of terrible games available for them. As far as the "numbers" are concerned, just take a look at the amount of daily traffic on popular PC games for an idea of how many PC gamers there are. If you're interested in game output, just take a look at Metacritic. PC exclusives with a 75+ metacritic score out number all the consoles combined by over double. Even if you owned a PS3, an Xbox 360, a Wii, A PS Vita, and a DS for the last 5 years, you still didn't have access to HALF as many critically acclaimed games as someone who just owned a single $600 PC. Those are just the facts man. Look, I own a PS3 and I owned an Xbox 360, I've owned almost every nintendo console, sega systems, etc all the way back to Atari dude. But the facts is the facts. And hey, if you have to make personal attacks and create caricatures of a person you disagree with in order to "win" the debate, it's usually a pretty good indication that you don't have anything actually worthwhile to say on the subject.
Baal Roo Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2983	Posted - 2014.02.15 23:45:00 - [6] - Quote Tech Ohm Eaven wrote: Buster Friently wrote: Th3rdSun wrote: http://www.slashgear.com/playstation-3-has-2-4-years-left-in-it-according-to-sony-11316546/ So if CCP is sticking to their guns of being "laser focused" on developing for the PS3,this game is most definitely doomed.Oh,and the whole "five year roadmap" is pretty much out the window as well. CCP,it's PS4 or bust for this game,you have to know that,right? None of the (now old) generation of consoles are going to even last this long. Mobile is going to eat the console market alive in under two years. Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha!! So you expect me to say no to my 2160p 120 inch HDTV and 7.1 sound in favor of a tiny TABLET?? Hell No. HAWL NOOO!!! The funny part is that you would apparently "say no to your 2160p HDTV" in favor of a 720p 30 FPS low-end PC (aka "next gen" consoles). Tablets can plug into a TV just as easily as a console can, and they can connect to a bluetooth controller just as easily as a console can as well. Frankly, if you were that concerned about having the highest quality gaming experience in terms of graphical fidelity, you wouldn't be playing on consoles in the first place. I'm not personally a "graphics hound," but if you're making the argument you're making here you need to realize the same argument can be made to marginalize the PS4 as well.
Baal Roo Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2983	Posted - 2014.02.16 00:02:00 - [7] - Quote Christiphoros von Poe wrote: Representatives of the PC master race here with us now? Please sirs... I am not worthy Holds up keyboard for tribute Not sure who you're talking about, everyone here obviously plays at least one videogame on PS3. Personally, I'm simply talking about what makes the most sense for a videogame with a supposed "10 year plan." Look, the PS3 is barely going to make it 10 years before Sony drops support for it, and it started out as an alternative to HIGH END PCs, the PS4 is starting it's lifecycle as an alternative to LOW END PCs. In 5 years the PS4 will be further behind the leading edge of gaming technology than the PS3 is now.
Baal Roo Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2983	Posted - 2014.02.16 00:08:00 - [8] - Quote Tech Ohm Eaven wrote: Baal Roo wrote: Tech Ohm Eaven wrote: Buster Friently wrote: Th3rdSun wrote: http://www.slashgear.com/playstation-3-has-2-4-years-left-in-it-according-to-sony-11316546/ So if CCP is sticking to their guns of being "laser focused" on developing for the PS3,this game is most definitely doomed.Oh,and the whole "five year roadmap" is pretty much out the window as well. CCP,it's PS4 or bust for this game,you have to know that,right? None of the (now old) generation of consoles are going to even last this long. Mobile is going to eat the console market alive in under two years. Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha!! So you expect me to say no to my 2160p 120 inch HDTV and 7.1 sound in favor of a tiny TABLET?? Hell No. HAWL NOOO!!! The funny part is that you would apparently "say no to your 2160p HDTV" in favor of a 720p 30 FPS low-end PC (aka "next gen" consoles). Tablets can plug into a TV just as easily as a console can, and they can connect to a bluetooth controller just as easily as a console can as well. Frankly, if you were that concerned about having the highest quality gaming experience in terms of graphical fidelity, you wouldn't be playing on consoles in the first place. I'm not personally a "graphics hound," but if you're making the argument you're making here you need to realize the same argument can be made to marginalize the PS4 as well. Games designed for a tablet suck. Games designed for a tablet are not in 4k resolution now nor will they be so two years from now. Neither is the PS4, nor will it be two years from now. And again, if in two or three years a tablet is close to matching the power of a PS4 (not at all unrealistic), nothing would stop a developer from putting a game on a tablet that utilizes the Xbone, PS4, KBM, or Steam controller.
Baal Roo Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2986	Posted - 2014.02.16 00:41:00 - [9] - Quote COVERT SUBTERFUGE wrote: Buster Friently wrote: Sure thing. Look me up in 2 years. Hardcore gamers are on PC already. Consoles have, for their existence, been the low hanging fruit, i.e the cheaper, easier, lesser alternative to PCs. Guess what fills that niche now? yeah mobile. All the AAA developers are already in the process of transferring their development to where the most possible customers are - mobile. That means you're going to be seeing a lot more ports from mobile, i.e. Android, onto the consoles, just like we've seen for consoles -> PCs for the last decade. Console users are already the minority in terms of numbers, and worse yet, they're now sandwiched between the high end PC users (small number, but willing to pay a lot) and the mobile users (very large numbers, but willing to pay less). this trend is only going to accelerate as mobile becomes more powerful. How old is an "old" mobile device? One year? Two? Consoles can not maintain a 10, or even 5 year cycle anymore. By then, Mobile devices will out power even the current generation of consoles, let alone, the last gen. I'm sorry, but Consoles are on their way to niche much faster that most people realize. This is just one of the reasons that Dust should move to PC. The PC high end will likely survive for much longer. Those who think mobile is going to destroy the console market are cute. Seriously. Can't help but think that.people who hold this belief are so out of touch with gaming. That's maybe the most ironic statement I've seen yet. It's not uncommon to hear industry insiders already speculating that this might be the last generation of consoles as we currently understand them. Heck, Microsoft's own board of directors have been slowly pushing the company to ditch the xbox entirely. Developers have already made it clear that their preferred platforms are PC and Mobile gaming. The pure output of critically acclaimed titles released on PC has dwarfed those released on consoles for half a decade now. Where we see on average somewhere in the range of 5-10 exclusives per console with a metacritic score at 75 or above released per year, there are 45-50 PC exclusives each year with a 75 or above rating. Furthermore, more people currently game on mobile devices than own consoles. I'm not by any means a "hater" of consoles, as I've already pointed out, I'm here discussing a game on a console from 8 years ago. I play my PS3 multiple times a week. However, my own gaming habits don't change the facts as they stand. Consoles have had the penetration rate they've had due to the casual gaming market, and that market is trending to spending their money more and more often on tablet devices. As those devices reach parity with the PS4 in the next 3-5 years, Sony will either have to release a new more powerful PS5, or see a further loss of marketshare and an even less interest from game developers than they already have. So again, if we're talking about what makes the most sense for a game that has a supposed "10 year plan," would you really think that spending the next 1-2 years porting the game to a system that will most likely be antiquated in 5 or so years really make the most sense? That means in another 4-6 years towards their 10 year plan they will AGAIN have to port the game over to yet another system, that will yet again have to gain an install base. To me, that just doesn't make sense. I'm not saying PS4 isn't a decent platform for the short term vision of a company looking to make a one-shot title in the next 2-4 years, but any point past that and the PS4 is going to start looking similar to how the PS3 and Xbox 360 are looking now.
Baal Roo Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2987	Posted - 2014.02.16 01:07:00 - [10] - Quote INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC wrote: I have to agree, mobile cant compete with 7.1 surround, hd, 3d or 72inch screens, not to mention controls, Im not saying it wont be there, but it wont dominate, oh and lets not forget gaming chairs with beer.... If ccp went to ps4 wouldnt that cut the player base up? I mean the guy on the ps3 cant play onlline with the guy with the ps4 correct? That seems as good of a reason as any to wait considering player totals. Again, considering the fact that the PS4 is already only on par with relatively low-end budget PC gaming rigs, in a few short years it can be assumed that mobile devices will be catching up to the PS4 in terms of power. Also, again, a tablet can be hooked up to a 72" tv just as easily as a PS4 can, and can also use a bluetooth controller just as easily as a PS4 can. So, if in 5 years you can buy a PS4 for $300, or you can buy a tablet that's just as powerful for $400-500, that also plugs into the tv, and can also use a bluetooth game controller... but has all the advantages of also being a tablet that you can unplug from the TV and carry around the house and use as a normal tablet, which device do you think the average consumer is going to find more attractive? Remember, we're not talking about people who want the best graphics or the most games (because those requirements lead a person to a gaming PC), we're talking about the more casual audience that just wants to play a videogame now and then, watch some netflix, and doesn't really care if they're getting "the best" experience. I think those people, the bulk of the console demographic, are going to move more and more towards the devices that offer the most functionality.

Baal Roo Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2987	Posted - 2014.02.16 02:26:00 - [11] - Quote COVERT SUBTERFUGE wrote: You cannot emulate the console experience on a mobile device. Convenience is NEVER EVER going to become more appealing than the home theatre experience of playing a game on my 46" TV and surround sound system to me. Mobile gaming has a future, but it isn't THE future so long as there are people like me who don't want to ** around on a tablet for my gaming. And again, tablets can hook up to a TV just like a console can. In a few years when tablets are just as powerful as a PS4, and probably not that much more expensive. Why would the casual user pick the console that only does one thing over the tablet that can do both? The Robot Devil wrote: Baal Roo wrote: Christiphoros von Poe wrote:** Representatives of the PC master race here with us now? Please sirs... I am not worthy Holds up keyboard for tribute Not sure who you're talking about, everyone here obviously plays at least one videogame on PS3. Personally, I'm simply talking about what makes the most sense for a videogame with a supposed "10 year plan." Look, the PS3 is barely going to make it 10 years before Sony drops support for it, and it started out as an alternative to HIGH END PCs, the PS4 is starting it's lifecycle as an alternative to LOW END PCs. In 5 years the PS4 will be further behind the leading edge of gaming technology than the PS3 is now. The leading edge is a $1100 video card that doesn't include the computer or monitor. No, a PS4 can't compete with a high end because if I choose to spend $3,500 on a gaming rig then it is going to be 10x faster than a console. I just paid $300 for a video card that will blow a PS out of the water. Each type of game machine -phone, PC, handheld, console- all have an equally important niche to fill and they shouldn't be lumped into one big pile. Yes, the leading edge gaming tech is always going to be very expensive, but even the average $500 gaming PC will already outperform the PS4, so imagine what $300-500 will get you in 5 years time. Further more, you don't include the price of a monitor into the price of the game system, otherwise you need to add the cost of your TV into the cost of a PS4. If you respond with "I've already got a TV"... then why would you add the cost of a monitor for the PC? You've already got a TV you can use it on. I don't know why everyone wants to turn this conversation into a big general console vs PC debate, because that has not been my intent. But frankly, the hypothetical $3,500 PC is nothing more than a red herring. When talking simply in the basic price range of "next gen" consoles, PCs are already more powerful. Even still, that's also not my point. This isn't a "should I buy a PC or a console?" thread. I don't see any reason to continue repeating myself, because I've already addressed these issues that people keep bringing up. It's highly unrealistic to expect the PS4 to last anywhere close to 10 years, and since CCP claims to want to continue supporting this game for 10+ years, it seems like a poor choice to port it to a console that is expected to have a relatively short shelf life.