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Soldier Sorajord
Subsonic Synthesis
RISE of LEGION
64
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Posted - 2014.02.13 15:20:00 -
[1] - Quote
Lol at all the complaining. Dude, the tanks themselves are not OP. It's that fact that you can call one in for dirt cheap. make a MLT Tank cost the same as the most expensive Proto suit. Problem solved.
But Keep reading!
I must propose some questions to you all. Please take these questions into consideration
General:
Did you tank before 1.7?
No? Don't complain because you do not understand how bad their ability to take damage was.
To Tankers:
Were you tanking pre 1.7?
Were You proto?
Were you happy getting two shotted by forge guns?
Were you happy getting killed by ONE PERSON?
How much did your GOOD tanks cost?
To AV Users:
You should not be able to kill a tank with ONE Person.
Do you just assume you should be able to One/ Two shot any vehicle in existence on DUST?
Have you run any sort of variance in your AV? Forges? Swarms? Grenades? Proxies? Remotes?
Do you charge blaster tanks head on?
Sora's the name. Gallente is my game. Yup! Gallente Specialist Here :)
Chromosome Veteran
Subsonic.
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Lucifalic
Nos Nothi
305
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Posted - 2014.02.13 15:26:00 -
[2] - Quote
So 1 guy with all proto av should not be able to solo an all militia tank???
Am I reading this right?
Here since Closed beta. Scout for life.
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Soldier Sorajord
Subsonic Synthesis
RISE of LEGION
64
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Posted - 2014.02.13 15:30:00 -
[3] - Quote
Lucifalic wrote:So 1 guy with all proto av should not be able to solo an all militia tank???
Am I reading this right?
You can already do that. Lol.
Most MLT tanks are garbage.
Also, I'm speaking in terms of tanks in general. I could care less about a MLT tank. I personally Run Madru's and Guni's.
If a MLT tanker knows how to run his stuff, yes they shouldn't get solo'd. Think dropsuits. You can kill a proto in all MLT gear with some teamwork and planning. Nuff said.
Sora's the name. Gallente is my game. Yup! Gallente Specialist Here :)
Chromosome Veteran
Subsonic.
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Crimson ShieId
Psygod9
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
33
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Posted - 2014.02.13 15:33:00 -
[4] - Quote
Tanks aren't OP... Tank Spam however, is. A single tank by itself can be killed by a 24k isk suit, advanced and basic gear with little to no problem at all, but that's only if that suit can get near the tank long enough to do so. Having five tanks covering each other makes this nearly impossible unless there's dedicated AV unit with forge guns and swarms distracting them. Pricing is really the only issue here, as OP said. People aren't afraid to lose tanks anymore, even new players, so they just spam them all day long and make a huge profit, as well as boosting their KD/R at the same time. 
Sometimes I miss never seeing tanks in a battle... then I remember the mystical flying soma, and I can't help but smile.
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DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
10729
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Posted - 2014.02.13 15:35:00 -
[5] - Quote
Teamwork for thee, but no teamwork for me
Tanker credo 101
Videos / Fiction
Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
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Atiim
Living Like Larry Schwag
4627
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Posted - 2014.02.13 15:35:00 -
[6] - Quote
Funny thing is, I only see 1 QQ thread that was bumped by a tanker, and the thread pre-dates AV's adaptation.
I'll bite anyways.
General:
Yes, I did tank before 1.7.
To Tankers:
I had PRO, but didn't run it often
I never got 2 shotted before 1.7. Even by a Wyrikomi Breach. Maybe you were bad?
Yes, I was. I am only one person in a tank, so I was glad with being killed by only one person on AV.
My average tank was 4-600k.
To AV Users:
Why shouldn't I? My total ISK loss is far more as AV, and I am still one person, just inside a tank.
Who said that they should 2 shot vehicles? Stop making baseless assumptions.
I've used all. My tank has only ever been killed by a squad of Forge Gunners, Jihad Jeeps, and Railguns. I think that's a problem.
"Teamwork For Thee, But No Teamwork For Me" - Such is the Motto of vehicle pilots
Want to know how to make a strike-through?
[s[Example[/s]
Now go my Forum Warriors. Use this new weapon for glory!
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Soldier Sorajord
Subsonic Synthesis
RISE of LEGION
64
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Posted - 2014.02.13 15:36:00 -
[7] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:Teamwork for thee, but no teamwork for me
Tanker credo 101
Lol if you're smart you can solo a tank. Remotes + AV nades/Flux + Swarms = Kill.
I'm okay with that. But pre 1.7 power was annoying asf.
Sora's the name. Gallente is my game. Yup! Gallente Specialist Here :)
Chromosome Veteran
Subsonic.
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Atiim
Living Like Larry Schwag
4627
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Posted - 2014.02.13 15:38:00 -
[8] - Quote
Soldier Sorajord wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:Teamwork for thee, but no teamwork for me
Tanker credo 101 Lol if you're smart you can solo a tank. Remotes + AV nades/Flux + Swarms = Kill. I'm okay with that. But pre 1.7 power was annoying asf.
My entire wallet goes to the first person who can kill me with this.
Want to know how to make a strike-through?
[s[Example[/s]
Now go my Forum Warriors. Use this new weapon for glory!
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Syeven Reed
RETR0 PR0 GAMERS
INTERGALACTIC WARPIGS
317
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Posted - 2014.02.13 15:38:00 -
[9] - Quote
Soldier Sorajord wrote:Lol at all the complaining. Dude, the tanks themselves are not OP. It's that fact that you can call one in for dirt cheap. make a MLT Tank cost the same as the most expensive Proto suit. Problem solved.
But Keep reading!
I must propose some questions to you all. Please take these questions into consideration
General:
Did you tank before 1.7?
No? Don't complain because you do not understand how bad their ability to take damage was.
To Tankers:
Were you tanking pre 1.7?
Were You proto?
Were you happy getting two shotted by forge guns?
Were you happy getting killed by ONE PERSON?
How much did your GOOD tanks cost?
To AV Users:
You should not be able to kill a tank with ONE Person.
Do you just assume you should be able to One/ Two shot any vehicle in existence on DUST?
Have you run any sort of variance in your AV? Forges? Swarms? Grenades? Proxies? Remotes?
Do you charge blaster tanks head on?
Your new around the forums? 
My proto suit costs 166K.... my MLT tank on the other hand (whilst requiring no skills to use) costs under 70K
My suit will die in 5 shots of your tank - your tank will regain its shields in less time as my suit takes to start recharging them...
You try to solo a tank whilst also being shot at by tank(2) and hoping the redline(3) doesn't get you.
You see what everyone means by OP tanks
Gÿé Syeven 514
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DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
10729
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Posted - 2014.02.13 15:39:00 -
[10] - Quote
Soldier Sorajord wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:Teamwork for thee, but no teamwork for me
Tanker credo 101 Lol if you're smart you can solo a tank. Remotes + AV nades/Flux + Swarms = Kill. I'm okay with that. But pre 1.7 power was annoying asf.
Good tankers don't slow down, it's always move move move. The only way you're getting remotes on them with AV grenades then taking shots with your swarms is if they're absolutely terrible, and running around by themselves.
There's a reason Jihad jeeps have become a thing, and it's not just because it's incredibly hilarious to do
Videos / Fiction
Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
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Soldier Sorajord
Subsonic Synthesis
RISE of LEGION
64
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Posted - 2014.02.13 15:40:00 -
[11] - Quote
Crimson ShieId wrote:Tanks aren't OP... Tank Spam however, is. A single tank by itself can be killed by a 24k isk suit, advanced and basic gear with little to no problem at all, but that's only if that suit can get near the tank long enough to do so. Having five tanks covering each other makes this nearly impossible unless there's dedicated AV unit with forge guns and swarms distracting them. Pricing is really the only issue here, as OP said. People aren't afraid to lose tanks anymore, even new players, so they just spam them all day long and make a huge profit, as well as boosting their KD/R at the same time.
Vehicle Quota more specific (ex: overall lim 7 vehicles. 3 tank max. 3 dropship max. 5 lav max.) rather than overall Quota, at least in ambush: Problem solved.
Sora's the name. Gallente is my game. Yup! Gallente Specialist Here :)
Chromosome Veteran
Subsonic.
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Bax Zanith
23
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Posted - 2014.02.13 15:40:00 -
[12] - Quote
Soldier Sorajord wrote:
To AV Users:
You should not be able to kill a tank with ONE Person.
Do you just assume you should be able to One/ Two shot any vehicle in existence on DUST?
Have you run any sort of variance in your AV? Forges? Swarms? Grenades? Proxies? Remotes?
Do you charge blaster tanks head on?
I'd say walk in my shoes for a day, but you probably still won't understand.
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Soldier Sorajord
Subsonic Synthesis
RISE of LEGION
64
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Posted - 2014.02.13 15:41:00 -
[13] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:Soldier Sorajord wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:Teamwork for thee, but no teamwork for me
Tanker credo 101 Lol if you're smart you can solo a tank. Remotes + AV nades/Flux + Swarms = Kill. I'm okay with that. But pre 1.7 power was annoying asf. Good tankers don't slow down, it's always move move move. The only way you're getting remotes on them with AV grenades then taking shots with your swarms is if they're absolutely terrible, and running around by themselves. There's a reason Jihad jeeps have become a thing, and it's not just because it's incredibly hilarious to do
Yup Yup. A smart tanker doesn't just sit and let you destroy them, just like a smart infantry doesn't just sit and get shot and die, lol.
Sora's the name. Gallente is my game. Yup! Gallente Specialist Here :)
Chromosome Veteran
Subsonic.
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Soldier Sorajord
Subsonic Synthesis
RISE of LEGION
64
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Posted - 2014.02.13 15:42:00 -
[14] - Quote
Add a Quota, Increase price, Problem solved. nuff said.
Sora's the name. Gallente is my game. Yup! Gallente Specialist Here :)
Chromosome Veteran
Subsonic.
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Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
2831
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Posted - 2014.02.13 15:42:00 -
[15] - Quote
I'm sick of reading these posts about people soloing tanks. I really am.
This really isn't a debate anymore. They aren't as OP as they were in closed beta, but those were proto tanks. Our AV was better then as well.
Tanks are OP in a pub match setting. The odds are overwhelming that your 6 guys will not be able to handle the tank spam WHILE also dealing with the infantry.
In a PC setting tanks are not OP. But they are killing pubs. It's as simple as that.
ML Director
Eve Toon - Raylan Scott
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Soldier Sorajord
Subsonic Synthesis
RISE of LEGION
64
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Posted - 2014.02.13 15:45:00 -
[16] - Quote
Thor Odinson42 wrote:I'm sick of reading these posts about people soloing tanks. I really am.
This really isn't a debate anymore. They aren't as OP as they were in closed beta, but those were proto tanks. Our AV was better then as well.
Tanks are OP in a pub match setting. The odds are overwhelming that your 6 guys will not be able to handle the tank spam WHILE also dealing with the infantry.
In a PC setting tanks are not OP. But they are killing pubs. It's as simple as that.
Like I said, Increase Price, and many people will stop. Add a quota of about 3, And you won't get massacred by 7 tanks in a match.
Sora's the name. Gallente is my game. Yup! Gallente Specialist Here :)
Chromosome Veteran
Subsonic.
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Justicar Karnellia
Ikomari-Onu Enforcement
Caldari State
683
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Posted - 2014.02.13 15:46:00 -
[17] - Quote
Ah the return of the zero-sum game... and the common fallacy of "it should take more than one person to kill a tank".. in a limited engagement 16 v 16 game...
Until it's fixed I'll in a tank to counter another tank - it's cheaper, more efficient and I can also kill infantry - it's exactly what's happening now - this is your zero-sum game.
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Alena Ventrallis
The Neutral Zone
649
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Posted - 2014.02.13 15:49:00 -
[18] - Quote
Tanks should be powerful. They should not be cheap.
They should be AV oriented. LAVs should fear them. Infantry, not so much. A tank's AI should come from small blasters.
Best PVE idea I've seen.
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Dovallis Martan JenusKoll
Osmon Surveillance
Caldari State
581
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Posted - 2014.02.13 15:50:00 -
[19] - Quote
Lucifalic wrote:So 1 guy with all proto av should not be able to solo an all militia tank???
Am I reading this right?
There is not going to be ADV or PRO tanks so... yes, most likely.
If you can read this, it means you are reading.
Unless you are skimming
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Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star.
EoN.
2511
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Posted - 2014.02.13 15:51:00 -
[20] - Quote
Did you tank before 1.7? Yes
Were you tanking pre 1.7? Yes
Were You proto? i have proto mods/turrets but still no proto hull
Were you happy getting two shotted by forge guns? if my hardeners are down i expect to get 2 shotted depending on tank and fit but with hardeners up i expect it to be double
Were you happy getting killed by ONE PERSON? if they worked for the kill and got me when my hardeners are down and they were in wait or chased after me then fair play, jihad jeeps excluded only proper AV weapons like FG/PLC/swarms
How much did your GOOD tanks cost? My most expensive tank is 700k, my average is 400-500k, my cheap is 200k+
To AV Users:
You should not be able to kill a tank with ONE Person.
Do you just assume you should be able to One/ Two shot any vehicle in existence on DUST? Only if i catch them with hardeners down, if hardeners are up then they are tougher to crack and takes at least double the amount of shots but it makes me work for that kill
Have you run any sort of variance in your AV? Forges? Swarms? Grenades? Proxies? Remotes? Yes, ive used remotes on jihad jeep which was too easy but fun but also meh, swarms are fire and forget no skill i dont like them, FG is my fave AV primary weapon and i love the breach FG, AV nades are a secondary to my FG as a support but i dont like the auto seeking feature since that takes away skill because i can spam them over a wall and never miss
Do you charge blaster tanks head on? No im not braindead
Intelligence is OP
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
2476
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Posted - 2014.02.13 15:56:00 -
[21] - Quote
There are plenty of Tankers who have been running tanks since Beta, guys that were still using tanks in 1.6, who say flat out that Tanks and AV are as out of balance now as they were in 1.6. It is just no they are flipped in the TankGÇÖs favour.
The AV weapons available to the suits that most infantry run (small and medium frame) were over nerfed and need to be adjusted back up to achieve balance. The Swarm Launcher and the AV grenade do not need to be buffed to anywhere near what they were in 1.6. Small buffs will go a long way to approaching balance.
We donGÇÖt need AV to be able to take down a Tank with itGÇÖs hardeners active, unless there are large numbers of AV, but we donGÇÖt want a continuation of the situation were a Tank does not feel it necessary to put its harder on when it is only a Swarm Launcher shooting at it.
The other issue I see with tanks right now is that some high end tanks can run their cooldowns in sequence so that by the time the third one goes on cooldown, the first one is ready for use again. If a tank always has its defenses up there is no wave of opportunity for AV to exploit.
Fox Gaden: DUST Wall of Fame, 2014
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CrotchGrab 360
The Men In The Mirror
1444
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Posted - 2014.02.13 16:01:00 -
[22] - Quote
HEY GUYS YOU SHOULD ALL HAVE TO PULL TOGETHER TO KILL ME BUT I SHOULD
BE ABLE TO WALK ALL OVER YOU SOLO
YEH I KILLED YOU USING PROTO SWARMS WITH A MILITIA TANK, SO WHAT? YOU'RE ONLY ONE PERSON
YOU SHOULDNT BE ABLE TO TAKE DOWN MY TANK
DUST VIDEOS
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
2476
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Posted - 2014.02.13 16:03:00 -
[23] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Soldier Sorajord wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:Teamwork for thee, but no teamwork for me
Tanker credo 101 Lol if you're smart you can solo a tank. Remotes + AV nades/Flux + Swarms = Kill. I'm okay with that. But pre 1.7 power was annoying asf. My entire wallet goes to the first person who can kill me with this.
I came up with that fit, but I am not going to take that bet. I would get a better KDR with a Jehad Jeep.
Fox Gaden: DUST Wall of Fame, 2014
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pdiddy anfama
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
115
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Posted - 2014.02.13 16:04:00 -
[24] - Quote
The tank QQ is hilarious they can be killed in one instant with a jihad taxi
CCP fix PC your core game mode
Blah blah blah about locking districts as long as there is frame rate drops
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The Attorney General
1941
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Posted - 2014.02.13 16:09:00 -
[25] - Quote
Soldier Sorajord wrote:
To Tankers:
Were you tanking pre 1.7?
Were You proto?
Were you happy getting two shotted by forge guns?
Were you happy getting killed by ONE PERSON?
How much did your GOOD tanks cost?
1. Yes, tanking since the start of uprising.
2. Yes.
3. Didn't happen. Maybe if I was off hardener, reps in cooldown, and got fluxed, but other than that.....
4. 1.5 million.
Soldier Sorajord wrote:
To AV Users:
You should not be able to kill a tank with ONE Person.
Do you just assume you should be able to One/ Two shot any vehicle in existence on DUST?
Have you run any sort of variance in your AV? Forges? Swarms? Grenades? Proxies? Remotes?
Do you charge blaster tanks head on?
1. One person with AV should be able to kill a tank. You cannot have it any other way in a 16 v 16 game.
2. Even a double damage modded forge is not two shooting most things, and most rational AV are not asking for such things.
3. I have proto grenades, RE's and a prof 5 FG on my heavy alt. If I had not specced Amarr logi I would have more experience with proxies, but I don't have the slots.
4. With my heavy alt, I can tackle any tank in the game. That is a lot of SP and practice tank popping though. I also don't play nice when it comes to AV, there is no chivalry in it at all.
Mr. Hybrid Vayu.
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Dovallis Martan JenusKoll
Osmon Surveillance
Caldari State
581
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Posted - 2014.02.13 16:09:00 -
[26] - Quote
CrotchGrab 360 wrote:HEY GUYS YOU SHOULD ALL HAVE TO PULL TOGETHER TO KILL ME BUT I SHOULD
BE ABLE TO WALK ALL OVER YOU SOLO
YEH I KILLED YOU USING PROTO SWARMS WITH A MILITIA TANK, SO WHAT? YOU'RE ONLY ONE PERSON
YOU SHOULDNT BE ABLE TO TAKE DOWN MY TANK
Cause you know, 3 tanks in full cover can shoot at infantry that can't really hide anywhere.... oh wait, it's the other way around.
Well tanks can completely avoid infantry by using cover... oh wait, it's the other way around.
Everyone knows that if a dropsuit player kills you only twice the whole battle and a tank kills you 8 times, you focus on the dropsuit and obsess over it because it's more visually identifiable... Oh wait, it's the other way around again..
I can solo tanks, just not 100% every friggin time I see them. If I could do that there would not be any tanks on the field.
Any organized group of 2 or more AV can completely clear the map of 3-7 tanks easily. Provided the users actually think..
If you can read this, it means you are reading.
Unless you are skimming
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Logi Stician
The Vanguardians
INTERGALACTIC WARPIGS
242
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Posted - 2014.02.13 16:25:00 -
[27] - Quote
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote:
Cause you know, 3 tanks in full cover can shoot at infantry that can't really hide anywhere.... oh wait, it's the other way around.
Have you ever played an Ambush? Get three or four tanks running around camping the smart deploy and tell me again how infantry can something something full cover.
Disclaimer: I know tankbush is broken, but I love it for the fast action and very decent payouts.
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote:Well tanks can completely avoid infantry by using cover... oh wait, it's the other way around.
Redline rails and tanks nascar-ing it to the redline. Boom. Roasted.
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote:Everyone knows that if a dropsuit player kills you only twice the whole battle and a tank kills you 8 times, you focus on the dropsuit and obsess over it because it's more visually identifiable... Oh wait, it's the other way around again..
What does this even mean? A tank is a force multiplier with what can be easily argued little risk, great reward, so it stands to reason that you will want to reduce the force multiplication to even the playing field.
"Oh great. A tank is moving past Bravo and headed to Charlie, switching to AV so we can kill it and resume playing the game."
"...and I'm the seventh out of seven sons, my pappy was a pistol, I'm a son of a gun. "
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CRNWLLC
Screwy Rabbit ULC
31
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Posted - 2014.02.13 16:35:00 -
[28] - Quote
We brought in the frogs to deal with the gnats. We brought in the snakes to deal with the frogs. We brought in the mongooses to deal with the snakes. What are we gonna do about all these mongooses?
Have you seen my baseball?
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Crimson ShieId
Psygod9
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
35
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Posted - 2014.02.13 16:36:00 -
[29] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Soldier Sorajord wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:Teamwork for thee, but no teamwork for me
Tanker credo 101 Lol if you're smart you can solo a tank. Remotes + AV nades/Flux + Swarms = Kill. I'm okay with that. But pre 1.7 power was annoying asf. My entire wallet goes to the first person who can kill me with this.
What kind of setup do you run? And I'll take that bet if I ever see you in a match.  Granted, it's unlikely that I'll ever see you in a match. 
Sometimes I miss never seeing tanks in a battle... then I remember the mystical flying soma, and I can't help but smile.
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Crimson ShieId
Psygod9
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
35
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Posted - 2014.02.13 16:37:00 -
[30] - Quote
CRNWLLC wrote:We brought in the frogs to deal with the gnats. We brought in the snakes to deal with the frogs. We brought in the mongooses to deal with the snakes. What are we gonna do about all these mongooses?
Bring in the scouts. 
Sometimes I miss never seeing tanks in a battle... then I remember the mystical flying soma, and I can't help but smile.
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Dovallis Martan JenusKoll
Osmon Surveillance
Caldari State
581
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Posted - 2014.02.13 16:41:00 -
[31] - Quote
Logi Stician wrote:
Have you ever played an Ambush? Get three or four tanks running around camping the smart deploy and tell me again how infantry can something something full cover.
Disclaimer: I know tankbush is broken, but I love it for the fast action and very decent payouts.
Then you should know that this is an empty retort filled with pure nonsense... Ambush should never have had tanks to begin with because of a lack of planning, I've been saying that for about 3 months now...
Logi Stician wrote:Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote:Well tanks can completely avoid infantry by using cover... oh wait, it's the other way around. Redline rails and tanks nascar-ing it to the redline. Boom. Roasted.
If you are being harried by a redline tank as an infantry unit, you have to be standing incredibly still to really take any flak from one. That's far more vehicle vs vehicle than vehicle vs infantry at any evaluation...
Logi Stician wrote:Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote:Everyone knows that if a dropsuit player kills you only twice the whole battle and a tank kills you 8 times, you focus on the dropsuit and obsess over it because it's more visually identifiable... Oh wait, it's the other way around again.. What does this even mean? A tank is a force multiplier with what can be easily argued little risk, great reward, so it stands to reason that you will want to reduce the force multiplication to even the playing field. "Oh great. A tank is moving past Bravo and headed to Charlie, switching to AV so we can kill it and resume playing the game."
It means what you just spewed back to me. People focus on tanks that do very little, and completely ignore the ground troops that may actually be the ones decimating your team. Why? Because you see the tank as a larger and much easier to track object, so whenever you see it roll closer you immediately start feeling offended... but that Proto Logi that was killing you over and over again, but you never really got to look at? Out of sight is out of mind.
If the person who switched to AV actually knew how to use it, that tank wouldn't be able to stay by "Charlie". I've destroyed quite a few tanks that just don't look where they are driving.
Militia suits with logical AV use are incredibly cheap and highly effective at removing vehicles.
On average my suit expenditure is about 8,000 ISK per tank destroyed.
If you can read this, it means you are reading.
Unless you are skimming
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Atiim
Living Like Larry Schwag
4628
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Posted - 2014.02.13 16:48:00 -
[32] - Quote
CRNWLLC wrote:We brought in the frogs to deal with the gnats. We brought in the snakes to deal with the frogs. We brought in the mongooses to deal with the snakes. What are we gonna do about all these mongooses?
You take the path of the old lady.
Die.
Want to know how to make a strike-through?
[s[Example[/s]
Now go my Forum Warriors. Use this new weapon for glory!
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Atiim
Living Like Larry Schwag
4628
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Posted - 2014.02.13 16:49:00 -
[33] - Quote
Crimson ShieId wrote:Atiim wrote:Soldier Sorajord wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:Teamwork for thee, but no teamwork for me
Tanker credo 101 Lol if you're smart you can solo a tank. Remotes + AV nades/Flux + Swarms = Kill. I'm okay with that. But pre 1.7 power was annoying asf. My entire wallet goes to the first person who can kill me with this. What kind of setup do you run? And I'll take that bet if I ever see you in a match. Granted, it's unlikely that I'll ever see you in a match.
Depends on the situation.
Usually, it's a Gunnlogi with a booster and 2 Hardeners.
Want to know how to make a strike-through?
[s[Example[/s]
Now go my Forum Warriors. Use this new weapon for glory!
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buzzzzzzz killllllllll
TRA1LBLAZERS
253
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Posted - 2014.02.13 17:02:00 -
[34] - Quote
Soldier Sorajord wrote:Lol at all the complaining. Dude, the tanks themselves are not OP. It's that fact that you can call one in for dirt cheap. make a MLT Tank cost the same as the most expensive Proto suit. Problem solved.
But Keep reading!
I must propose some questions to you all. Please take these questions into consideration
General:
Did you tank before 1.7?
No? Don't complain because you do not understand how bad their ability to take damage was.
To Tankers:
Were you tanking pre 1.7?
Were You proto?
Were you happy getting two shotted by forge guns?
Were you happy getting killed by ONE PERSON?
How much did your GOOD tanks cost?
To AV Users:
You should not be able to kill a tank with ONE Person.
Do you just assume you should be able to One/ Two shot any vehicle in existence on DUST?
Have you run any sort of variance in your AV? Forges? Swarms? Grenades? Proxies? Remotes?
Do you charge blaster tanks head on?
They are op as well as too low cost, yes i tanked bfor 1.7, 8 mil in tanks, i had proto eveything, i didnt get 2 shotted by forges, they were actually sort of balanced, i rarely got killed 1v1, and i was fine getting killed 1v1, because the better player won, my tanks cost .5-3 mil isk a piece back then (so expensive). Also, i had 6 mil in av, and you should be able to 1v1 a tank if u r better, u can never 2 shot a vehicle unless it was an old mlt fit vs an ishy assaultFG, i had proto forge prof 3, adv swarms, adv nades, adv res and proxies, and i dont charge blaster tanks head on any more. I answered the questions, and again, yes, tanks are overpowered now and inexpensive |
CRNWLLC
Screwy Rabbit ULC
32
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Posted - 2014.02.13 17:06:00 -
[35] - Quote
Atiim wrote:CRNWLLC wrote:We brought in the frogs to deal with the gnats. We brought in the snakes to deal with the frogs. We brought in the mongooses to deal with the snakes. What are we gonna do about all these mongooses? You take the path of the old lady. Die.
Me or the mongooses?
Have you seen my baseball?
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Vermaak Doe
SVER True Blood
General Tso's Alliance
1363
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Posted - 2014.02.13 17:07:00 -
[36] - Quote
The op isn't very smart
/thread.
"Always fight dirty, the victor writes history"
Eve toon: Drake Doe, professional hero tackler, full time pretzel boy
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Thumb Green
Titans of Phoenix
Legacy Rising
775
|
Posted - 2014.02.13 17:10:00 -
[37] - Quote
I'd really like to know where you people get the idea that a tank shouldn't be able to be destroyed by one person. There's no precedent for it in any multiplayer game I know of and it's not as if these are M1A2's being shot at by Cold War weaponry.
There are 21 base infantry weapons in this game, 11 of which tanks are immune to, 3 that are equivalent to gnats, 1 only a threat to shields, 6 that are threats; though currently 3 are more of a nuisance and 1 is hit or miss on whether it works if it they drive over it. Leaving only 2 infantry weapons being viable threats to tanks: Forges & RE's. Then you have the 6 vehicle weapons which all but 1 pose a threat to tanks. 27 weapons in total and only 8 pose a threat to tanks (1 only to shields, 2 infantry, 5 vehicle)
While of the 21 base infantry weapons, infantry are semi-immune (they won't target or detonate at the presence of infantry alone but still can kill them) to 3, 1 is only a threat to shields, 17 pose a threat. Then you have the 6 vehicle weapons all of which pose a threat to infantry. 27 weapons in total and only 24 pose a threat to infantry (1 only to shields, 17 infantry, 6 vehicle)
So out of the 27 weapons in this game only 29% of them currently pose a threat to tanks; while 88% pose a threat to infantry. However tanks can be killed by 14 (3 only have a slim chance but still it's possible & those are FL, Locus, and Mass. while another 3 are either buggy or UP and 5 are vehicle weapons) which is 51% though only 7 have a fair chance of killing a tank so it's more like 25%. While infantry can be killed by 26 (again 3 have a slim chance and those are AV nades, PE, & Swarms. with the PE being buggy and 6 being vehicle weapons) which is 96% though only 23 have a fair chance of killing infantry so it's more like 85%.
So only 25% of the weapons have a fair chance of killing a tank most of which are vehicle weapons; while 85% of them have a fair chance of killing infantry most of which are infantry weapons. The thing is though not all infantry weapons can kill vehicles while all vehicle weapons can kill infantry.
What more do you guys want? To be gods?
Support Orbital Spawns
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Ryme Intrinseca
Fatal Absolution
668
|
Posted - 2014.02.13 17:10:00 -
[38] - Quote
Soldier Sorajord wrote:
To AV Users:
You should not be able to kill a tank with ONE Person.
That's reasonable provided one tanker is not able to kill one infantry. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. |
Sgt Buttscratch
lcritMYpantS
1562
|
Posted - 2014.02.13 17:16:00 -
[39] - Quote
General:
Did you tank before 1.7? YES
To Tankers:
Were you tanking pre 1.7? YES
Were You proto? There was only proto turrets...
Were you happy getting two shotted by forge guns? Didn't happen, we had resists then still
Were you happy getting killed by ONE PERSON? Yes and NO, the speed in which swarm volleys were released and the invisi swarms were bullshit,theone person thing didnotbother me.
How much did your GOOD tanks cost? 3.2million
To AV Users:
You should not be able to kill a tank with ONE Person. Why not? tank can drive and shoot with just one, my proficiency FG character still does it, The new tanks are also cheaper than my dropsuit fits
Do you just assume you should be able to One/ Two shot any vehicle in existence on DUST? NO
Have you run any sort of variance in your AV? Forges? Swarms? Grenades? Proxies? Remotes? ALL
Do you charge blaster tanks head on? NO
From your questions it seems you have little understanding of the tank versus av battle. Both past and present.
I stick my weiner in two buns and and then give it the gas
Sour cream from my spleen into Levi jeans
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Logi Stician
The Vanguardians
INTERGALACTIC WARPIGS
243
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Posted - 2014.02.13 17:24:00 -
[40] - Quote
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote:
Then you should know that this is an empty retort filled with pure nonsense... Ambush should never have had tanks to begin with because of a lack of planning, I've been saying that for about 3 months now...
It does not however, take away from the fact that in this case, infantry are completely exposed and vulnerable to tanks with no means of retaliation.
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote:
If you are being harried by a redline tank as an infantry unit, you have to be standing incredibly still to really take any flak from one. That's far more vehicle vs vehicle than vehicle vs infantry at any evaluation...
What I am saying is that tanks can completely avoid infantry from the redline. Nasty lil rail tank shooting at your buddies' vehicles? Good luck trying to swarm or forge, the red tank can just move back just a teensy bit and is completely in cover while hardeners/reppers take effect.
Or! Shoot a tank with some AV weapon and it zooms off to the deep deep redline like a drag racer.
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote:
It means what you just spewed back to me. People focus on tanks that do very little, and completely ignore the ground troops that may actually be the ones decimating your team. Why? Because you see the tank as a larger and much easier to track object, so whenever you see it roll closer you immediately start feeling offended... but that Proto Logi that was killing you over and over again, but you never really got to look at? Out of sight is out of mind.
If the person who switched to AV actually knew how to use it, that tank wouldn't be able to stay by "Charlie". I've destroyed quite a few tanks that just don't look where they are driving.
Militia suits with logical AV use are incredibly cheap and highly effective at removing vehicles.
On average my suit expenditure is about 8,000 ISK per tank destroyed.
"tanks that do very little"? I don't even remember the last time I saw a tank do "very little". What is your definition of very little? 12/0? 8/0? Even then its because there are 4 or 5 tanks doing "very little" and it adds up. Nice try.
And infantry completely ignoring ground troops that are melting faces? What, did you take a community survey to confirm your claim? I cannot speak for the community about how they prioritize targets, but it may be safe to assume that a good number of players will want a piece of [insert leet corp slayer] when he/she is going on kill 12/0 with his SCR and LAV. I know I do.
I do love me some cheap AV fits. Hey, 8k is the total cost of my Jihad jeep fit! BPO suit and LAV, the only isk spent is the REs. Is that your load out too?
"...and I'm the seventh out of seven sons, my pappy was a pistol, I'm a son of a gun. "
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Bones McGavins
TacoCat Industries
492
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Posted - 2014.02.13 17:25:00 -
[41] - Quote
Please tell AV how to handle smart tankers who have 2 shield hardeners on and retreat to the redline when they are off. Please tell me how my team can win if there are multiple of these tanks on the field at once so there is always a multi hardened tank at the front of any conflict?
Look I've bad plenty of matches where I've killed 7-10 tanks. But those were bad tankers spamming. Get 2+ good tankers together and there is no infantry counter. Seriously theory craft a way to kill 2x hardened shield tanks that properly use thier wave of opportunity. With less then 20% of damage getting through there just isn't a way |
Dauth Jenkins
Ultramarine Corp
45
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Posted - 2014.02.13 17:40:00 -
[42] - Quote
People have suggested adding a quota many times and every time I ask them this. With a quota, what's to stop a blueberry from bringing out a mlt railtank and sit back in the redline, or a scrub mlt blaster trying to mop up infantry, while you sit their with a proto missile tank just waiting for one of the blueberry tanks to die so you can pull out yours and take out the tree armour tanks shredding through your team. Right now, adding a quota seems like a great idea, but it may cause just as many problems as it solves
Sees prototompers...
Sees blueberries start to snipe...
Pulls out commando suit with laser rifle and swarm launcher...
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Dovallis Martan JenusKoll
Osmon Surveillance
Caldari State
581
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Posted - 2014.02.13 19:18:00 -
[43] - Quote
Logi Stician wrote:Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote:
Then you should know that this is an empty retort filled with pure nonsense... Ambush should never have had tanks to begin with because of a lack of planning, I've been saying that for about 3 months now...
It does not however, take away from the fact that in this case, infantry are completely exposed and vulnerable to tanks with no means of retaliation.
Ambush is a broken outlier gamemode, and does not clarify anything in the least.
You're that guy at an office meeting who jabs his finger at a single outlier as "proof" when thousands of other tested points fall on the complete other end of the chart...
The guy who sees a car without an engine and says it needs better tires... etc.. Ambush is broken and cannot be used to validate anything in your argument.
Logi Stician wrote:
What I am saying is that tanks can completely avoid infantry from the redline. Nasty lil rail tank shooting at your buddies' vehicles? Good luck trying to swarm or forge, the red tank can just move back just a teensy bit and is completely in cover while hardeners/reppers take effect.
Or! Shoot a tank with some AV weapon and it zooms off to the deep deep redline like a drag racer.
Now you're complaining that tanks can kill other tanks?
Any tank that is in the redline is not doing much of anything to help their team. And if it has to run back to the redline, that means it's most likely a blaster tank. Never seen a blaster kill anything worthwhile from the redline.
Logi Stician wrote:Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote:
It means what you just spewed back to me. People focus on tanks that do very little, and completely ignore the ground troops that may actually be the ones decimating your team. Why? Because you see the tank as a larger and much easier to track object, so whenever you see it roll closer you immediately start feeling offended... but that Proto Logi that was killing you over and over again, but you never really got to look at? Out of sight is out of mind.
If the person who switched to AV actually knew how to use it, that tank wouldn't be able to stay by "Charlie". I've destroyed quite a few tanks that just don't look where they are driving.
Militia suits with logical AV use are incredibly cheap and highly effective at removing vehicles.
On average my suit expenditure is about 8,000 ISK per tank destroyed.
"tanks that do very little"? I don't even remember the last time I saw a tank do "very little". What is your definition of very little? 12/0? 8/0? Even then its because there are 4 or 5 tanks doing "very little" and it adds up. Nice try. And infantry completely ignoring ground troops that are melting faces? What, did you take a community survey to confirm your claim? I cannot speak for the community about how they prioritize targets, but it may be safe to assume that a good number of players will want a piece of [insert leet corp slayer] when he/she is going on kill 12/0 with his SCR and LAV. I know I do. I do love me some cheap AV fits. Hey, 8k is the total cost of my Jihad jeep fit! BPO suit and LAV, the only isk spent is the REs. Is that your load out too?
You, yourself said that the tank simply drove past another point, and that warranted a callout to everyone else in the squad.
12/0 is an "incredible and unstoppable enemy" anymore, but only if it's a tank, while those 30/4 ground troops are just there for decoration.
If there is more than one tank on the field, the chances of another tank being both useful, and getting a score that high are severely miniscule. 7/2 is a normal game average from what I've seen.
The tank will either be on the field, or in the hills. If they are on the field they are going to be killed a minimum of once per game, and if they are in the hills, they will be evasive, but wildly useless toward any goals other than keeping vehicles off the infantry.
In nearly all of the games I've played, tanks are almost always too busy with other tanks to afford focusing against infantry.
It doesn't matter how many kills they get if they're too busy avoiding being the center of attention to assist with securing a point.
As for the infantry completely ignoring other infantry? It happens more than I would care to see, why? Because they obsess with the tank and simply stop paying attention to other ground forces. They then often come here to rant and rave about the tank that magically hacked the objectives inside of buildings because everyone else was outside staring down that same said tank...
In other words, they obsessed so much about the tanks themselves, that they simply didn't notice what the enemy infantry was doing. Announcing tank positions was of much higher priority in their minds.
As for ineffective tanks? High scores do not make one effective on the field, it is the location of combat that makes one effective, or not so. A tank that does 0 kills but distracts from a point long enough for it to be hacked and uplinked is effective. A tank that kills 12+ people while wandering all around the map is ineffective.
If you can read this, it means you are reading.
Unless you are skimming
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Logi Stician
The Vanguardians
INTERGALACTIC WARPIGS
243
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Posted - 2014.02.13 19:49:00 -
[44] - Quote
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote:
Ambush is a broken outlier gamemode, and does not clarify anything in the least.
You're that guy at an office meeting who jabs his finger at a single outlier as "proof" when thousands of other tested points fall on the complete other end of the chart...
The guy who sees a car without an engine and says it needs better tires... etc.. Ambush is broken and cannot be used to validate anything in your argument.
Outlier?
Oh man, I'm sorry, I forgot. Only 9 or 10 people in the entire Dust population play Ambush.
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote:Logi Stician wrote:
What I am saying is that tanks can completely avoid infantry from the redline. Nasty lil rail tank shooting at your buddies' vehicles? Good luck trying to swarm or forge, the red tank can just move back just a teensy bit and is completely in cover while hardeners/reppers take effect.
Or! Shoot a tank with some AV weapon and it zooms off to the deep deep redline like a drag racer.
Now you're complaining that tanks can kill other tanks? Any tank that is in the redline is not doing much of anything to help their team. And if it has to run back to the redline, that means it's most likely a blaster tank. Never seen a blaster kill anything worthwhile from the redline.
Why does it feel like I'm feeding a troll? I am not complaining about tanks killing tanks. I was stating an example of what tanks in the redline DO. Redline tanks typically hang back and snipe derpships and other tanks and sometimes infantry. When trying to counter with infantry AV, like swarms and forges, it pulls back.
I see tanks running back to the redline all the time! Either that or safely out of infantry reach to be recalled.
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote: You, yourself said that the tank simply drove past another point, and that warranted a callout to everyone else in the squad.
12/0 is an "incredible and unstoppable enemy" anymore, but only if it's a tank, while those 30/4 ground troops are just there for decoration.
If there is more than one tank on the field, the chances of another tank being both useful, and getting a score that high are severely miniscule. 7/2 is a normal game average from what I've seen.
The tank will either be on the field, or in the hills. If they are on the field they are going to be killed a minimum of once per game, and if they are in the hills, they will be evasive, but wildly useless toward any goals other than keeping vehicles off the infantry.
In nearly all of the games I've played, tanks are almost always too busy with other tanks to afford focusing against infantry.
It doesn't matter how many kills they get if they're too busy avoiding being the center of attention to assist with securing a point.
As for the infantry completely ignoring other infantry? It happens more than I would care to see, why? Because they obsess with the tank and simply stop paying attention to other ground forces. They then often come here to rant and rave about the tank that magically hacked the objectives inside of buildings because everyone else was outside staring down that same said tank...
In other words, they obsessed so much about the tanks themselves, that they simply didn't notice what the enemy infantry was doing. Announcing tank positions was of much higher priority in their minds.
As for ineffective tanks? High scores do not make one effective on the field, it is the location of combat that makes one effective, or not so. A tank that does 0 kills but distracts from a point long enough for it to be hacked and uplinked is effective. A tank that kills 12+ people while wandering all around the map is ineffective.
Again, I used an example of someone noticing a tank moving from one objective to another. That was an example of communication, and nothing more. Usually, a group of reds zerging an objective can be effectively dealt with, whereas a tank is more difficult to work around, because if you're not running an AV fit at the time, you need to switch, and then get to where the threat is.
Maybe it is a matter of prioritization. Enough blueberries can eventually hone in on an infantry tryhard, but facing down a tank in the immediate area takes some preparation, if they are not expecting it.
It has happened to me on many occasions that I will take however many shots at a leet infantry, weaken him, get two shotted due to my mlt BPO preference (I'M NOT COMPLAINING, JUST EXPLAINING THE SITUATION.), die to superior skills and gear, see that I got +25 for the sweet, sweet kill assist, breathe a sigh of relief, then switch over to my mlt forge or jihad jeep fit to help deal with Thomas the Tank Spammer.
As to the rest of what you said, I can see your point about effective vs. ineffective. Although, that tank that gets those 12 kills while running all over the map is still hassling the enemy, making it harder for them to get to whichever objective, and contributing to the clone count which can be the determining factor in some matches.
"...and I'm the seventh out of seven sons, my pappy was a pistol, I'm a son of a gun. "
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Marlin Kirby
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
354
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Posted - 2014.02.13 20:31:00 -
[45] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:Teamwork for thee, but no teamwork for me
Tanker credo 101
I see what you did there.
The not Logic Bomb!
-->We need better comms!<--
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Soldier Sorajord
Subsonic Synthesis
RISE of LEGION
69
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Posted - 2014.02.13 20:50:00 -
[46] - Quote
/Thread. Ive had enough :)
Sora's the name. Gallente is my game. Yup! Gallente Specialist Here :)
Chromosome Veteran
Subsonic.
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NK Scout
Storm Wind Strikeforce
Caldari State
346
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Posted - 2014.02.13 20:55:00 -
[47] - Quote
Soldier Sorajord wrote:Lol at all the complaining. Dude, the tanks themselves are not OP. It's that fact that you can call one in for dirt cheap. make a MLT Tank cost the same as the most expensive Proto suit. Problem solved.
But Keep reading!
I must propose some questions to you all. Please take these questions into consideration
General:
Did you tank before 1.7?
No? Don't complain because you do not understand how bad their ability to take damage was.
To Tankers:
Were you tanking pre 1.7?
Were You proto?
Were you happy getting two shotted by forge guns?
Were you happy getting killed by ONE PERSON?
How much did your GOOD tanks cost?
To AV Users:
You should not be able to kill a tank with ONE Person.
Do you just assume you should be able to One/ Two shot any vehicle in existence on DUST?
Have you run any sort of variance in your AV? Forges? Swarms? Grenades? Proxies? Remotes?
Do you charge blaster tanks head on?
Proto av should solo mlt tank
Nitros needs another nerfing
Blasters need a little nerfing
Maybe another speed reduction on madrugar
Forges need a splash radius buff and maybe a slight charge time buff
Rails need nerfing and damage profile fixing.
2 exiles assault rifles,
Skinweave caldari frame,
Staff recruiter mlt frame,
Templar set
Caldari Master Race
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Nothing Certain
Villore Sec Ops
Gallente Federation
229
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Posted - 2014.02.13 21:01:00 -
[48] - Quote
Soldier Sorajord wrote:Lol at all the complaining. Dude, the tanks themselves are not OP. It's that fact that you can call one in for dirt cheap. make a MLT Tank cost the same as the most expensive Proto suit. Problem solved.
But Keep reading!
I must propose some questions to you all. Please take these questions into consideration
General:
Did you tank before 1.7?
No? Don't complain because you do not understand how bad their ability to take damage was.
To Tankers:
Were you tanking pre 1.7?
Were You proto?
Were you happy getting two shotted by forge guns?
Were you happy getting killed by ONE PERSON?
How much did your GOOD tanks cost?
To AV Users:
You should not be able to kill a tank with ONE Person.
Do you just assume you should be able to One/ Two shot any vehicle in existence on DUST?
Have you run any sort of variance in your AV? Forges? Swarms? Grenades? Proxies? Remotes?
Do you charge blaster tanks head on?
I find it strange that the key point, being able to kill a tank with one person, was not in the form of a question. It was a statement. So the question is, why shouldn't one person using AV fittings be able to kill someone running an equivalent HAV fitting? The answer, because it is a tank, or any similar answer, is not an answer.
Because, that's why.
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Soldier Sorajord
Subsonic Synthesis
RISE of LEGION
70
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Posted - 2014.02.13 21:07:00 -
[49] - Quote
If only the op of a thread could close their thread :(
I got the point lol
Sora's the name. Gallente is my game. Yup! Gallente Specialist Here :)
Chromosome Veteran
Subsonic.
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Midas Fool
Black Phoenix Mercenaries
Legacy Rising
375
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Posted - 2014.02.14 01:57:00 -
[50] - Quote
Sgt Buttscratch wrote:From your questions it seems you have little understanding of the tank versus av battle. Both past and present.
THIS
THIS x 1000
OP has no idea what he is talking about. Instead of falling for the bait just tell him.
/thread
+25 Kill Assist...+25 Kill Assist...+25 Kill Assist...NO HOW WHY
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KING CHECKMATE
Tal-Romon Legion
Amarr Empire
4609
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Posted - 2014.02.14 01:58:00 -
[51] - Quote
Soldier Sorajord wrote:
Most MLT tanks are garbage.
Not my 3 hardener sica.
Support Amarr scout bonus change! : https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1813029#post1813029
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Debacle Nano
BurgezzE.T.F
General Tso's Alliance
663
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Posted - 2014.02.14 02:17:00 -
[52] - Quote
General:
Did you tank before 1.7? Yes
To Tankers:
Were you tanking pre 1.7? Yes
Were You proto? Yes
Were you happy getting two shotted by forge guns? No
Were you happy getting killed by ONE PERSON? No
How much did your GOOD tanks cost? Too much
To AV Users:
You should not be able to kill a tank with ONE Person. Agreed
Do you just assume you should be able to One/ Two shot any vehicle in existence on DUST? Of course not
Have you run any sort of variance in your AV? Forges? Swarms? Grenades? Proxies? Remotes? Yes
Do you charge blaster tanks head on? No
Just had to fill out the survey.
Closed beta anyone?
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
7059
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Posted - 2014.02.14 02:22:00 -
[53] - Quote
I was not happy being two shotted by breach forgers.
My expensive tanks cost well over 1 million ISK, and my prospective Enforcer fit was well over 2 million. I also had none of the three Armoured warfare tenets. I had no Armour, no Mobility, moderate Fire Power.....but couldn't see past 50m.
"Just know that though our enemies may only #YOLO, through God's grace we can #YOLF at his side." - Disciple of Kesha
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