Logi Stician
The Vanguardians
INTERGALACTIC WARPIGS
242
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Posted - 2014.02.13 16:25:00 -
[1] - Quote
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote:
Cause you know, 3 tanks in full cover can shoot at infantry that can't really hide anywhere.... oh wait, it's the other way around.
Have you ever played an Ambush? Get three or four tanks running around camping the smart deploy and tell me again how infantry can something something full cover.
Disclaimer: I know tankbush is broken, but I love it for the fast action and very decent payouts.
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote:Well tanks can completely avoid infantry by using cover... oh wait, it's the other way around.
Redline rails and tanks nascar-ing it to the redline. Boom. Roasted.
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote:Everyone knows that if a dropsuit player kills you only twice the whole battle and a tank kills you 8 times, you focus on the dropsuit and obsess over it because it's more visually identifiable... Oh wait, it's the other way around again..
What does this even mean? A tank is a force multiplier with what can be easily argued little risk, great reward, so it stands to reason that you will want to reduce the force multiplication to even the playing field.
"Oh great. A tank is moving past Bravo and headed to Charlie, switching to AV so we can kill it and resume playing the game."
"...and I'm the seventh out of seven sons, my pappy was a pistol, I'm a son of a gun. "
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Logi Stician
The Vanguardians
INTERGALACTIC WARPIGS
243
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Posted - 2014.02.13 17:24:00 -
[2] - Quote
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote:
Then you should know that this is an empty retort filled with pure nonsense... Ambush should never have had tanks to begin with because of a lack of planning, I've been saying that for about 3 months now...
It does not however, take away from the fact that in this case, infantry are completely exposed and vulnerable to tanks with no means of retaliation.
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote:
If you are being harried by a redline tank as an infantry unit, you have to be standing incredibly still to really take any flak from one. That's far more vehicle vs vehicle than vehicle vs infantry at any evaluation...
What I am saying is that tanks can completely avoid infantry from the redline. Nasty lil rail tank shooting at your buddies' vehicles? Good luck trying to swarm or forge, the red tank can just move back just a teensy bit and is completely in cover while hardeners/reppers take effect.
Or! Shoot a tank with some AV weapon and it zooms off to the deep deep redline like a drag racer.
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote:
It means what you just spewed back to me. People focus on tanks that do very little, and completely ignore the ground troops that may actually be the ones decimating your team. Why? Because you see the tank as a larger and much easier to track object, so whenever you see it roll closer you immediately start feeling offended... but that Proto Logi that was killing you over and over again, but you never really got to look at? Out of sight is out of mind.
If the person who switched to AV actually knew how to use it, that tank wouldn't be able to stay by "Charlie". I've destroyed quite a few tanks that just don't look where they are driving.
Militia suits with logical AV use are incredibly cheap and highly effective at removing vehicles.
On average my suit expenditure is about 8,000 ISK per tank destroyed.
"tanks that do very little"? I don't even remember the last time I saw a tank do "very little". What is your definition of very little? 12/0? 8/0? Even then its because there are 4 or 5 tanks doing "very little" and it adds up. Nice try.
And infantry completely ignoring ground troops that are melting faces? What, did you take a community survey to confirm your claim? I cannot speak for the community about how they prioritize targets, but it may be safe to assume that a good number of players will want a piece of [insert leet corp slayer] when he/she is going on kill 12/0 with his SCR and LAV. I know I do.
I do love me some cheap AV fits. Hey, 8k is the total cost of my Jihad jeep fit! BPO suit and LAV, the only isk spent is the REs. Is that your load out too?
"...and I'm the seventh out of seven sons, my pappy was a pistol, I'm a son of a gun. "
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Logi Stician
The Vanguardians
INTERGALACTIC WARPIGS
243
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Posted - 2014.02.13 19:49:00 -
[3] - Quote
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote:
Ambush is a broken outlier gamemode, and does not clarify anything in the least.
You're that guy at an office meeting who jabs his finger at a single outlier as "proof" when thousands of other tested points fall on the complete other end of the chart...
The guy who sees a car without an engine and says it needs better tires... etc.. Ambush is broken and cannot be used to validate anything in your argument.
Outlier?
Oh man, I'm sorry, I forgot. Only 9 or 10 people in the entire Dust population play Ambush.
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote:Logi Stician wrote:
What I am saying is that tanks can completely avoid infantry from the redline. Nasty lil rail tank shooting at your buddies' vehicles? Good luck trying to swarm or forge, the red tank can just move back just a teensy bit and is completely in cover while hardeners/reppers take effect.
Or! Shoot a tank with some AV weapon and it zooms off to the deep deep redline like a drag racer.
Now you're complaining that tanks can kill other tanks? Any tank that is in the redline is not doing much of anything to help their team. And if it has to run back to the redline, that means it's most likely a blaster tank. Never seen a blaster kill anything worthwhile from the redline.
Why does it feel like I'm feeding a troll? I am not complaining about tanks killing tanks. I was stating an example of what tanks in the redline DO. Redline tanks typically hang back and snipe derpships and other tanks and sometimes infantry. When trying to counter with infantry AV, like swarms and forges, it pulls back.
I see tanks running back to the redline all the time! Either that or safely out of infantry reach to be recalled.
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote: You, yourself said that the tank simply drove past another point, and that warranted a callout to everyone else in the squad.
12/0 is an "incredible and unstoppable enemy" anymore, but only if it's a tank, while those 30/4 ground troops are just there for decoration.
If there is more than one tank on the field, the chances of another tank being both useful, and getting a score that high are severely miniscule. 7/2 is a normal game average from what I've seen.
The tank will either be on the field, or in the hills. If they are on the field they are going to be killed a minimum of once per game, and if they are in the hills, they will be evasive, but wildly useless toward any goals other than keeping vehicles off the infantry.
In nearly all of the games I've played, tanks are almost always too busy with other tanks to afford focusing against infantry.
It doesn't matter how many kills they get if they're too busy avoiding being the center of attention to assist with securing a point.
As for the infantry completely ignoring other infantry? It happens more than I would care to see, why? Because they obsess with the tank and simply stop paying attention to other ground forces. They then often come here to rant and rave about the tank that magically hacked the objectives inside of buildings because everyone else was outside staring down that same said tank...
In other words, they obsessed so much about the tanks themselves, that they simply didn't notice what the enemy infantry was doing. Announcing tank positions was of much higher priority in their minds.
As for ineffective tanks? High scores do not make one effective on the field, it is the location of combat that makes one effective, or not so. A tank that does 0 kills but distracts from a point long enough for it to be hacked and uplinked is effective. A tank that kills 12+ people while wandering all around the map is ineffective.
Again, I used an example of someone noticing a tank moving from one objective to another. That was an example of communication, and nothing more. Usually, a group of reds zerging an objective can be effectively dealt with, whereas a tank is more difficult to work around, because if you're not running an AV fit at the time, you need to switch, and then get to where the threat is.
Maybe it is a matter of prioritization. Enough blueberries can eventually hone in on an infantry tryhard, but facing down a tank in the immediate area takes some preparation, if they are not expecting it.
It has happened to me on many occasions that I will take however many shots at a leet infantry, weaken him, get two shotted due to my mlt BPO preference (I'M NOT COMPLAINING, JUST EXPLAINING THE SITUATION.), die to superior skills and gear, see that I got +25 for the sweet, sweet kill assist, breathe a sigh of relief, then switch over to my mlt forge or jihad jeep fit to help deal with Thomas the Tank Spammer.
As to the rest of what you said, I can see your point about effective vs. ineffective. Although, that tank that gets those 12 kills while running all over the map is still hassling the enemy, making it harder for them to get to whichever objective, and contributing to the clone count which can be the determining factor in some matches.
"...and I'm the seventh out of seven sons, my pappy was a pistol, I'm a son of a gun. "
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