DUST Search - Is full racial parity necessary?

Luna Angelo wrote:

Paladin Sas wrote:

plausible weapon variants

shotguns
Cald - pump action slug
Gal - current near semi auto spread
Minm - full auto, short range
Amar - think laser rifle, but short range AOE. does more damage to groups of enemies than against lone soldiers

knives
Cald - current charge-up affair, boost the damage, reduce time between knife attempts
Gal - (if DOTs are introduced) plasma injection DOT
Minm - explosive tips (stab for 0 damage, run away, press button, boom)
Amar - medium range (10meters) pulse lance (im pretty sure the AV lance described was a heavy weapon

launchers
Cald - Swarms
Gal - PC
Minm - MD (on a side note, i would LOVE a MD variant with a remote detonator instead of impact detonation)
Amar - maybe some sort of charge up 3-5 round burst direct fire MD (for those who dont know, MD follows a near balistic arc, direct fire is linear)

submachineguns
Cald - magsec
Gal - maybe some sort of charge up to release a burst of plasma rounds
Minm - our current traditional bullet hose
Amar - mid range, low ROF, submachine scrambler

again, these are possible plausible ideas, nothing hinted/confirmed by CCP

For the Amarr Shotgun, I had an idea: Shoot a laser through a prism to "break" the beam. It would multiply the amount of damage, and limit range. Like a shotgun.

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Joseph Ridgeson WarRavens League of Infamy 490	Posted - 2014.02.10 04:32:00 - [1] - Quote Racial parity is the oh-so wonderful buzz words used to state "every race has their own variant of a given item." One thing that I see thrown around a lot is the fact that "Minmatar Scout suits get a bonus to Caldari weapons." These topics are referring to the fact that the Nova Knife is a Caldari weapon. Many people have called for all racial variants for all weapons. However, is this truly necessary? Melee weapons are something I really see as not needing racial variants at all. What would be the functional difference between like an Amarr power-glove puncher and the Caldari Nova Knife? Both are completely worthless at anything other than melee range and both would probably deal an obscene amount of damage up close. With the rifles, each racial variant at least has it's purpose and concept. Caldari Rail Rifle for range and skirmishes, Gallente Assault Rifle for up-close face brawling. I don't see a reason to be that concerned about not having a lead pipe as the Minmatar weapon from a mechanics aspect as both would do exactly the same thing. Be well.
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 566	Posted - 2014.02.10 04:34:00 - [2] - Quote No, if every race got copies of every other race's tech there will be guns that are completely pointless. If you can read this, it means you are reading. Unless you are skimming
Cody Sietz Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 2187	Posted - 2014.02.10 04:36:00 - [3] - Quote Amarr are getting a AV lance. That is all. "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire
Joseph Ridgeson WarRavens League of Infamy 490	Posted - 2014.02.10 04:42:00 - [4] - Quote Cody Sietz wrote: Amarr are getting a AV lance. That is all. If this is true, then I revoke my statement on the pointlessness of racial parity in regards to melee weapons. The AV lance would have a completely different function entirely. I am still unsure what you could do with the other two races though. A knife is a knife.
Nocturnal Soul Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 1934	Posted - 2014.02.10 04:43:00 - [5] - Quote I will always love and suggest the idea of an Amarr power glove of death. Charlotte O'Dell is a liar, that's only a piece of corn & I'm the one and only majestic unicorn.
COVERT SUBTERFUGE PSU GHOST SYNDICATE DARKSTAR ARMY 167	Posted - 2014.02.10 05:09:00 - [6] - Quote No it's not necessary for all weapons; there shouldn't be 4 shotguns, 4 MDs, 4 swarms etc but sticking someone with a pointy object is one of the oldest forms of combat so it's not beyond the realms of possibility that each race came up with their own take on this combat method. I take it my thread sparked this topic. The only reason I brought it up is that 1.8 seems to be aligning races with their tech and the Min scout seemed to be a strange exception. Subterfuge and terrorist GOD in the making Proud Minmatar - Alt of THE GREY CARDINAL Love the Art of War
Joel II X Dah Gods O Bacon 915	Posted - 2014.02.10 05:16:00 - [7] - Quote Yes. Racial parity for the win. I want to role play with only Gallente tech, dammit!
Joel II X Dah Gods O Bacon 915	Posted - 2014.02.10 05:17:00 - [8] - Quote COVERT SUBTERFUGE wrote: No it's not necessary for all weapons; there shouldn't be 4 shotguns, 4 MDs, 4 swarms etc but sticking someone with a pointy object is one of the oldest forms of combat so it's not beyond the realms of possibility that each race came up with their own take on this combat method. I take it my thread sparked this topic. The only reason I brought it up is that 1.8 seems to be aligning races with their tech and the Min scout seemed to be a strange exception. Swarms, Mass Driver, Plasma Cannon are racial light AV. Not the same, but fill the same category. This is true racial parity.
COVERT SUBTERFUGE PSU GHOST SYNDICATE DARKSTAR ARMY 167	Posted - 2014.02.10 05:25:00 - [9] - Quote Joel II X wrote: COVERT SUBTERFUGE wrote: No it's not necessary for all weapons; there shouldn't be 4 shotguns, 4 MDs, 4 swarms etc but sticking someone with a pointy object is one of the oldest forms of combat so it's not beyond the realms of possibility that each race came up with their own take on this combat method. I take it my thread sparked this topic. The only reason I brought it up is that 1.8 seems to be aligning races with their tech and the Min scout seemed to be a strange exception. Swarms, Mass Driver, Plasma Cannon are racial light AV. Not the same, but fill the same category. This is true racial parity. MD is light AV? In general I agree that 'categories' should have Racial Parity (yurr, with caps!). At the moment it's a bit of a Racial Parody. Subterfuge and terrorist GOD in the making Proud Minmatar - Alt of THE GREY CARDINAL Love the Art of War
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 3411	Posted - 2014.02.10 05:54:00 - [10] - Quote Joel II X wrote: COVERT SUBTERFUGE wrote: No it's not necessary for all weapons; there shouldn't be 4 shotguns, 4 MDs, 4 swarms etc but sticking someone with a pointy object is one of the oldest forms of combat so it's not beyond the realms of possibility that each race came up with their own take on this combat method. I take it my thread sparked this topic. The only reason I brought it up is that 1.8 seems to be aligning races with their tech and the Min scout seemed to be a strange exception. Swarms, Mass Driver, Plasma Cannon are racial light AV. Not the same, but fill the same category. This is true racial parity. CCP's statement about the Mass Driver/Light AV is a little ambiguous: CCP Logibro wrote: Last time I checked, technically both the Swarm Launcher and Plasma Cannon are classified as "Launchers", and sit in the same category as the Mass Driver. This might be subject to change though, and doesn't preclude the inclusion of a Minmatar AV weapon of some kind (but I'm not saying there's one in the works. Just means we wouldn't never introduce one). That said, to the point of the OP, with knives specifically, I think the idea of having four different sets is a bit silly. However, a racial melee weapon for each race would be nice, and there's a lot of space within "melee" for variety I think. I wouldn't think 4 shotguns, 4 MDs, etc. are necessary, but each race having a form of Light AV, for one, would make sense. You have to imagine that the Amarr would have some sort of AV weapon to use with their ground forces prior to meeting other races, right? There doesn't need to be a "copy" of each weapon for each race. However, some kinds of weapons fill pretty unique roles that you'd expect every race to probably have in their arsenal. For example, the sniper rifle. A really long-range weapon used to take out people is almost a universal "type" of weapon in any game and any armed forces. It seems reasonable that some kind of "Sniping" rifle would be had by all races, though you'd expect the functionality to vary somewhat. Similarly, some sort of short range/close quarters firearm beyond melee seems likely. As a close-quarters option that doesn't require physical strength on the part of the user is reasonable. The debatable part is whether a sidearm pistol already fits this, or some sort of "SMG" type weapon should be in every races' arsenal. Arguably, something like the Magsec is really above and beyond what's required here. Those are what I'd call the core elements of racial parity weapon-wise (that we have left). Some kind of melee, some kind of AV, some kind of sniping rifle, and some sort of short-range/cqc suppression weapon. Though some weapons, like the Plasma Cannon, do a rather crap job of fill their role as well. Dren and Templar equipment stats, wrong since release.

Paladin Sas Pro Hic Immortalis 287	Posted - 2014.02.10 05:57:00 - [11] - Quote plausible weapon variants shotguns Cald - pump action slug Gal - current near semi auto spread Minm - full auto, short range Amar - think laser rifle, but short range AOE. does more damage to groups of enemies than against lone soldiers knives Cald - current charge-up affair, boost the damage, reduce time between knife attempts Gal - (if DOTs are introduced) plasma injection DOT Minm - explosive tips (stab for 0 damage, run away, press button, boom) Amar - medium range (10meters) pulse lance (im pretty sure the AV lance described was a heavy weapon launchers Cald - Swarms Gal - PC Minm - MD (on a side note, i would LOVE a MD variant with a remote detonator instead of impact detonation) Amar - maybe some sort of charge up 3-5 round burst direct fire MD (for those who dont know, MD follows a near balistic arc, direct fire is linear) submachineguns Cald - magsec Gal - maybe some sort of charge up to release a burst of plasma rounds Minm - our current traditional bullet hose Amar - mid range, low ROF, submachine scrambler
Kigurosaka Laaksonen DUST University Ivy League 263	Posted - 2014.02.10 06:03:00 - [12] - Quote Yes, it's necessary. '4 racial shotguns' is NOT an example of racial parity. DUST 514 Recruit Code - https://dust514.com/recruit/zluCyb/ EVE Buddy Invite - Too damn long. Ask me for it.
Kristoff Atruin Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1663	Posted - 2014.02.10 06:07:00 - [13] - Quote I don't think the amarr melee weapon should be a glove. I want a bible to smack people over the head with.
TheAmazing FlyingPig Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 5686	Posted - 2014.02.10 06:07:00 - [14] - Quote I see parity with some things as alright (every faction should have access to an all-purpose assault weapon), but I also like each race to have things that make them unique (MD, LR) to make things interesting. Never forget May 14, 2013: Beta 2.0
Vermaak Doe SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 1351	Posted - 2014.02.10 06:11:00 - [15] - Quote Kristoff Atruin wrote: I don't think the amarr melee weapon should be a glove. I want a bible to smack people over the head with. Slap some sense into them with a copy of pax amarria "Always fight dirty, the victor writes history" Eve toon: Drake Doe, professional hero tackler, full time pretzel boy
Lynn Beck Granite Mercenary Division Top Men. 707	Posted - 2014.02.10 06:22:00 - [16] - Quote Planetside 2 suffers from this from what i've heard. The Vanu for example don't have a long range tank. The Earth peeps(forget them) don't have a flanker option The Confederacy whatever don't have a brawler type. Sure, you have the 'specialty' types in each area, but bringing it back to DUST, do you expect caldari to NOT have a CQC weapon for when they attack an objective? Shotguns would fill this role. Amarr having a beyond 200m attack method? I propose the lazor get a buff to make it this. Minmatar having a 'tactical breach' weapon, akin to the laser rifle of today, or the plasma cannon and how it's used now? We need a melee weapon- minmatar's could do full damage with just a tap, meaning skmething like 80% of a caldari knive's full charge potential. Amarr could have some type of lightsaber, or an energy sword. Though t wouldn't be beneath them to have a Katana. Gallente could have some sort of supreme assasination, like a pocket shotgun, able to be held 1 in each hand, doing more damage the longer it keeps contact with the enemy. Think of the Guren mk.2 from Code Geass.(it has a plasma/matter distortion gun built in the palm of its' hand.) Under 28db Officially nerfproof (predicting CR nerf February '14) Selling SP: 10k SP per 100k ISK.
akira 1999 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 23	Posted - 2014.02.10 07:14:00 - [17] - Quote racial parity just boils down that all four races will have their own take on all weapons/vehicles/race specific gear(starting in 1.8) so a heavy gun like the HMG for all 4 (who know when?) a melee weapon of some kind (soon tm) a variant on a assault rifle (already here) pistols (coming in 1.8) all four races will also then get a LAV, HAV and DS and MAV in the future (current stuff is caldari and gallante) all four will get a close range and long range weapon for the main turret on the HAV (current is just caldari and gallante) etc. etc. it is following the model of EVE where all 4 races have their own variants on every ship class from frigs right up to titans all four have specialized weapons that that use primarily with some cross over with the hybrids/missiles that way in the future when they finally get everything added and then adjust suit stats to fit with the race specific weapons you will have the minmatar heavy suit would get bonuses to the HMG the caldari scout would get the bonus for the nova knife amarr assault/commando bonus for laser based rifles etc. the way it should be.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 4438	Posted - 2014.02.10 07:58:00 - [18] - Quote Racial parity in the sense of everyone having their own version of every weapon? No. Racial parity in the sense of everyone having their own weapon for every role? DEFINITELY. Everyone needs a frontline "primary" rifle weapon - Scrambler/Rail/Plasma/Combat Rifles fill this nicely. As for Nova Knives, Amarr should be getting that AV lance thing, Gallente could have a Nova Axe or something with enough damage to be semi-viable for AV as well as an effective anti-infantry weapon, and Minmatar could have Knives that have significantly different charge/damage stats. Or Minmatar could get Knives and the Caldari weapon could be scaled up to a Nova Sword to better reflect the long range preference with a single slightly heavier strike instead of multiple slashes.
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 566	Posted - 2014.02.10 08:11:00 - [19] - Quote Joel II X wrote: Yes. Racial parity for the win. I want to role play with only Gallente tech, dammit! Basically you're saying you want to use equipment that is sub-par to your opponents? If you're using Gallente weaponry, why would you want to use a variant of some other race's tech, just because it's made by the Gallente? There is no real way that you can consider a Galente laser rifle to not be an Amarrian rip if you are role-playing, and hence you would never use the other weapons because they are symbols of the other races... You would only want to use the weapons pioneered by the Gallente, and hence all the other weapons would be unwanted, and pointless to have racial proxies for... In short: If you are role-playing, gear parity just means gear with multiple races attributed to them which = pointless for a purity RP. ROLE PARITY is something entirely different btw. By re-reading your posts, I think this is what you meant. If you can read this, it means you are reading. Unless you are skimming
Luna Angelo We Who Walk Alone 728	Posted - 2014.02.10 08:21:00 - [20] - Quote Paladin Sas wrote: plausible weapon variants shotguns Cald - pump action slug Gal - current near semi auto spread Minm - full auto, short range Amar - think laser rifle, but short range AOE. does more damage to groups of enemies than against lone soldiers knives Cald - current charge-up affair, boost the damage, reduce time between knife attempts Gal - (if DOTs are introduced) plasma injection DOT Minm - explosive tips (stab for 0 damage, run away, press button, boom) Amar - medium range (10meters) pulse lance (im pretty sure the AV lance described was a heavy weapon launchers Cald - Swarms Gal - PC Minm - MD (on a side note, i would LOVE a MD variant with a remote detonator instead of impact detonation) Amar - maybe some sort of charge up 3-5 round burst direct fire MD (for those who dont know, MD follows a near balistic arc, direct fire is linear) submachineguns Cald - magsec Gal - maybe some sort of charge up to release a burst of plasma rounds Minm - our current traditional bullet hose Amar - mid range, low ROF, submachine scrambler again, these are possible plausible ideas, nothing hinted/confirmed by CCP For the Amarr Shotgun, I had an idea: Shoot a laser through a prism to "break" the beam. It would multiply the amount of damage, and limit range. Like a shotgun. I don't need luck, I have ammo. Wolves don't lose sleep over the opinions of sheep. CEO of We Who Walk Alone

Yan Darn DUST University Ivy League 180	Posted - 2014.02.10 08:38:00 - [21] - Quote The Amarr shotgun should have a charge function. That's all I feel I need to contribute at this point. You probably don't know me. But next time you get gunned down or exploded by a Valor scout...check the name.
MINA Longstrike 2Shitz 1Giggle 279	Posted - 2014.02.10 08:39:00 - [22] - Quote Luna Angelo wrote: Paladin Sas wrote: plausible weapon variants shotguns Cald - pump action slug Gal - current near semi auto spread Minm - full auto, short range Amar - think laser rifle, but short range AOE. does more damage to groups of enemies than against lone soldiers knives Cald - current charge-up affair, boost the damage, reduce time between knife attempts Gal - (if DOTs are introduced) plasma injection DOT Minm - explosive tips (stab for 0 damage, run away, press button, boom) Amar - medium range (10meters) pulse lance (im pretty sure the AV lance described was a heavy weapon launchers Cald - Swarms Gal - PC Minm - MD (on a side note, i would LOVE a MD variant with a remote detonator instead of impact detonation) Amar - maybe some sort of charge up 3-5 round burst direct fire MD (for those who dont know, MD follows a near balistic arc, direct fire is linear) submachineguns Cald - magsec Gal - maybe some sort of charge up to release a burst of plasma rounds Minm - our current traditional bullet hose Amar - mid range, low ROF, submachine scrambler again, these are possible plausible ideas, nothing hinted/confirmed by CCP For the Amarr Shotgun, I had an idea: Shoot a laser through a prism to "break" the beam. It would multiply the amount of damage, and limit range. Like a shotgun. Lasers get their damage from passing through a focusing crystal - if you 'break' the beam you get a pretty lightshow and nothing else. As for parity it doesn't mean each race gets a shotgun or each race gets a sniper rifle what it means is each race gets an answer to a problem / weapon style in a different way. Examples are rifles or pistols - each race has something that performs roughly similarly, then weapon design in terms of launchers - plasma cannon is light av/ai, swarm is pretty good av, mass driver is anti infantry and I would not be surprised to see the amarr launcher be a khanid kingdoms short range direct fire rocket (essentially an amarr rocket-shotgun). 'Melee' is something there should be parity for 'Short range primary weapon' is something there should be parity for 'Mid range utility' is something there should be parity for (hint it's rifles) 'Sidearms precise / generalist' is something there should be parity for. 'Light av' is something there should be parity for 'Long range' is something there should be parity for 'Heavy av' is something there should be parity for 'Heavy anti infantry' is something there should be parity for. Edit to explain that a 'lance' isn't necessarily a melee weapon in fact in science fiction a 'lance' is often just a big laser gun
Ronan Elsword Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 172	Posted - 2014.02.10 08:42:00 - [23] - Quote There is already pictures of 4 different racial variants of knives from one of the Fanfest. http://imgur.com/a/4bKjz#23 *"War doesn't determine who is right, only who is left."*
Komodo Jones Chaotik Serenity 458	Posted - 2014.02.10 08:46:00 - [24] - Quote not necessary, but it could be good to work on when there's nothing else going on. there are far more important matters to work on coughPVEcoughcough so as long as those get done first I have no complaints. This is a signature. You're now reading it. You may now reply to my post.
Joel II X Dah Gods O Bacon 918	Posted - 2014.02.10 11:12:00 - [25] - Quote Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote: Joel II X wrote: Yes. Racial parity for the win. I want to role play with only Gallente tech, dammit! Basically you're saying you want to use equipment that is sub-par to your opponents? If you're using Gallente weaponry, why would you want to use a variant of some other race's tech, just because it's made by the Gallente? There is no real way that you can consider a Galente laser rifle to not be an Amarrian rip if you are role-playing, and hence you would never use the other weapons because they are symbols of the other races... You would only want to use the weapons pioneered by the Gallente, and hence all the other weapons would be unwanted, and pointless to have racial proxies for... In short: If you are role-playing, gear parity just means gear with multiple races attributed to them which = pointless for a purity RP. ROLE PARITY is something entirely different btw. By re-reading your posts, I think this is what you meant. If we just say role parity, it could mean that we would have more roles, but it doesn't specify if any race had their own. Racial role parity? Also, I'm fine with a fixed shotgun/Gallente Knives/Pistol/AR thank you very much.
akira 1999 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 24	Posted - 2014.02.10 22:56:00 - [26] - Quote never said that their will be a gallante laser rifle, because lasers are amarr weapons I said they will have a weapon for each race for each class of weapon.. a heavy anti infantry weapon a heavy anti vehicle weapon a long range sniper weapon a rifle for mid range a short range weapon and a pistol and of course a melee weapon then there will be a lav a mav a hav a ds a fighter a m.t.a.c. there will also most likely be a advanced version for each of the vehicles for all 4 races and may even have multiple versions for each class of vehicle. so a standard vehicle, a advanced version, a prototype and maybe even specialization vehicles. so for lavs for instance you would have a basic lav, a logi lav, a ECM based lav, maybe even scout cloak capable lavs? for the HAV an anti vehicle weapon (rails, heavy missiles , beam lasers and artillery) and anti infantry/light vehicle weapon ( rockets?, blaster, auto cannons and pulse lasers) etc. for each race, with their own light and heavy damage weapon based on the pre-existing lore for weapons of choice for the 4 races parity simply will mean that if I am a caldari or a minmatar I would have a suit of choice, weapon for my play style and vehicle options based on what race I want to be ( role players dream ) in case what I said was misread or kinda vague on how I wrote it originally
Debacle Nano BurgezzE.T.F General Tso's Alliance 648	Posted - 2014.02.10 22:59:00 - [27] - Quote Gimmie bayonets. Closed beta anyone?
Onesimus Tarsus 1172	Posted - 2014.02.10 23:08:00 - [28] - Quote Racial parity is paper dolls in this game, unless they start handing out bonuses for racial purity. That is, the more faithful you are to your chosen race's tech, the bigger specific racial bonus you get. Otherwise, full-on dumb. Spock, the Rock, Doc Ock and Hulk Hogan.
Spademan The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 726	Posted - 2014.02.10 23:13:00 - [29] - Quote Joseph Ridgeson wrote: Cody Sietz wrote: Amarr are getting a AV lance. That is all. If this is true, then I revoke my statement on the pointlessness of racial parity in regards to melee weapons. The AV lance would have a completely different function entirely. I am still unsure what you could do with the other two races though. A knife is a knife. We're not sure if at this point it is a melee weapon or not. Names seems to be the Scrambler Lance, and I recall Lance being used in other games as a name for sniper rifles and such. Basically, it could be anything. I am part shovel, part man, full scout, and a little bit special.
Sinboto Simmons SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 4476	Posted - 2014.02.10 23:15:00 - [30] - Quote Kristoff Atruin wrote: I don't think the amarr melee weapon should be a glove. I want a bible to smack people over the head with. I'm not Amarr but that's ******* awesome. Sinboto - The True Blood Minja Forum Warrior level 4 STB-Infantry (Demolition)



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