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Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 6345	Posted - 2014.02.09 20:00:00 - [91] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Removing damage mods would only buff armor tankers even more. Hardly. Damage buffs are currently ruining this game. No FPS shooter should allow a player to have a more powerful gun in terms of direct damage model balanced against how many high slots they have. How would loosing damage modules buff the Armour Tanker class? It would only allow us to take more utility module.....I fail to see this as a bad thing. It wouldn't be so bad is weapons modules affected weapon statistics like stability, maybe tentatively RoF, Reload speed, etc. No shooter allows you to stack modules that increase your HP dramatically. If you want to compare to other shooters, be fair. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives. Tuna > Tacos
IRON PATRIOT 1 Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 94	Posted - 2014.02.09 20:03:00 - [92] - Quote Logi Bro wrote: IRON PATRIOT 1 wrote: Thankyou like I said math means nothing in this game. Lol, I like that you haven't directly responded to any of my posts yet. Are you allergic to logic? Math means EVERYTHING in this game, this is the FPS version of Spreadsheets in Space, ffs. Because the math your putting out is not hard concrete facts its based off of a scenario of what could happen basically an estimation. 41.4% damage increase to a weapon with 3 complex damage mods and proficiency lvl 5 is a fact not the math you're doing.
Izlare Lenix FREE AGENTS LP 151	Posted - 2014.02.09 20:05:00 - [93] - Quote Knight Solitaire wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Knight Solitaire wrote: Damage mods need a penalty, I think they should increase the CPU of the weapons they effect, much like how it works in EVE. Actually they have no penalty EVE. They increase both damage and fire rate. https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Magnetic_Field_Stabilizer_II Really? I was sure thats how they worked, maybe I was thinking of Mining Laser Upgrades. You are thinking of damage rigs. There is a rig that increasess damage and one that increases rof and they both have a penalty that increases fitting requirement for the weapon they effect. Since there is only one module in Dust that effects weapon damage it should have a detractor like increasing fitting on the weapon your using. Gun control is not about guns...it's about control. The only way to ensure freedom is by having the means to defend it.
IRON PATRIOT 1 Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 94	Posted - 2014.02.09 20:07:00 - [94] - Quote CCP can either do three things -Remove damage mods or nerf them -Buff Shield Extenders -Or nerf armor plates
Logi Bro Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic 2916	Posted - 2014.02.09 20:10:00 - [95] - Quote IRON PATRIOT 1 wrote: Logi Bro wrote: IRON PATRIOT 1 wrote: Thankyou like I said math means nothing in this game. Lol, I like that you haven't directly responded to any of my posts yet. Are you allergic to logic? Math means EVERYTHING in this game, this is the FPS version of Spreadsheets in Space, ffs. Because the math your putting out is not hard concrete facts its based off of a scenario of what could happen basically an estimation. 41.4% damage increase to a weapon with 3 complex damage mods and proficiency lvl 5 is a fact not the math you're doing. Ok, assuming you did your math right, so said the player had a 41.4% damage bonus? Same scenario, with a few changes. Player A has the three complex damage mods, maxed proficiency, and Player B has 3 complex shield extenders. Weapons have base of 100 DPS, and their suits have a base of 100 eHP. Player A is doing 141.4 DPS to a 319 eHP enemy. Player B is doing 100 DPS to a 100 eHP enemy. Player A kills Player B in 2.256... seconds. Player B kills Player A in 1 second. The guy with the extenders is killing more than twice as quickly as the guy with the damage mods. /thread Shield Recommendations
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 6351	Posted - 2014.02.09 20:11:00 - [96] - Quote IRON PATRIOT 1 wrote: CCP can either do three things -Remove damage mods or nerf them -Buff Shield Extenders -Or nerf armor plates Or none of those. Call back to me when plates self regenerate at 40hp/s. (Coming in 1.8) Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives. Tuna > Tacos
IRON PATRIOT 1 Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 94	Posted - 2014.02.09 20:18:00 - [97] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: IRON PATRIOT 1 wrote: CCP can either do three things -Remove damage mods or nerf them -Buff Shield Extenders -Or nerf armor plates Or none of those. Call back to me when plates self regenerate at 40hp/s. (Coming in 1.8) Its called Allotek nanohives which all you gals use.
IRON PATRIOT 1 Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 94	Posted - 2014.02.09 20:20:00 - [98] - Quote Logi Bro wrote: IRON PATRIOT 1 wrote: Logi Bro wrote: IRON PATRIOT 1 wrote: Thankyou like I said math means nothing in this game. Lol, I like that you haven't directly responded to any of my posts yet. Are you allergic to logic? Math means EVERYTHING in this game, this is the FPS version of Spreadsheets in Space, ffs. Because the math your putting out is not hard concrete facts its based off of a scenario of what could happen basically an estimation. 41.4% damage increase to a weapon with 3 complex damage mods and proficiency lvl 5 is a fact not the math you're doing. Ok, assuming you did your math right, so said the player had a 41.4% damage bonus? Same scenario, with a few changes. Player A has the three complex damage mods, maxed proficiency, and Player B has 3 complex shield extenders. Weapons have base of 100 DPS, and their suits have a base of 100 eHP. Player A is doing 141.4 DPS to a 319 eHP enemy. Player B is doing 100 DPS to a 100 eHP enemy. Player A kills Player B in 2.256... seconds. Player B kills Player A in 1 second. The guy with the extenders is killing more than twice as quickly as the guy with the damage mods. /thread Again that's if all your shots land another scenario that I don't care for.
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 6352	Posted - 2014.02.09 20:34:00 - [99] - Quote IRON PATRIOT 1 wrote: Cat Merc wrote: IRON PATRIOT 1 wrote: CCP can either do three things -Remove damage mods or nerf them -Buff Shield Extenders -Or nerf armor plates Or none of those. Call back to me when plates self regenerate at 40hp/s. (Coming in 1.8) Its called Allotek nanohives which all you gals use. We don't actually, because the CPU/PG requirements are hurrendos and we get an extremely gimped suit. Plus it's limited, nerfed in 1.8 with all the other hives, has limited range and forces you to stay still. You're going to have 40hp/s shield regen for free. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives. Tuna > Tacos
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 6352	Posted - 2014.02.09 20:35:00 - [100] - Quote IRON PATRIOT 1 wrote: Logi Bro wrote: IRON PATRIOT 1 wrote: Logi Bro wrote: IRON PATRIOT 1 wrote: Thankyou like I said math means nothing in this game. Lol, I like that you haven't directly responded to any of my posts yet. Are you allergic to logic? Math means EVERYTHING in this game, this is the FPS version of Spreadsheets in Space, ffs. Because the math your putting out is not hard concrete facts its based off of a scenario of what could happen basically an estimation. 41.4% damage increase to a weapon with 3 complex damage mods and proficiency lvl 5 is a fact not the math you're doing. Ok, assuming you did your math right, so said the player had a 41.4% damage bonus? Same scenario, with a few changes. Player A has the three complex damage mods, maxed proficiency, and Player B has 3 complex shield extenders. Weapons have base of 100 DPS, and their suits have a base of 100 eHP. Player A is doing 141.4 DPS to a 319 eHP enemy. Player B is doing 100 DPS to a 100 eHP enemy. Player A kills Player B in 2.256... seconds. Player B kills Player A in 1 second. The guy with the extenders is killing more than twice as quickly as the guy with the damage mods. /thread Again that's if all your shots land another scenario that I don't care for. In that case the shield extender user still wins... Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives. Tuna > Tacos

Logi Bro Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic 2919	Posted - 2014.02.09 20:35:00 - [101] - Quote This isn't a debate, I gave you the facts, you can either continue to troll your way along, or just give up. Whichever you choose, CCP isn't going to remove damage mods. Shield Recommendations
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 9187	Posted - 2014.02.09 21:00:00 - [102] - Quote Sinboto Simmons wrote: Or we can move um to the lowslot. Sure, you could do that... And then the only thing you can put in highslots are shield extenders. Seems like a plan! Of course, this is still not a valid excuse for dual tanking... ZATARA CARRIES US ALL Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution MAG Raven
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 9187	Posted - 2014.02.09 21:02:00 - [103] - Quote Lynn Beck wrote: Replace them with: Heat sink- increases RoF of Laser weaponry- high slot Gyrostabilazer-increases RoF and effective range of Projectile weaponry- low slot Magnetic Field Stabilizer- increases RoF and damage of Hybrid weaponry- low slot These would help racially symmetrical fittings, such as Smg/Acr on a min assault. Edit- what these would actually modify are simply examples, as you would think a Heat Sink would decrease OH. Why would you ever want to buff RoF on any laser weapon? ZATARA CARRIES US ALL Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution MAG Raven
Happy Jack SD Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 72	Posted - 2014.02.09 21:04:00 - [104] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: IRON PATRIOT 1 wrote: Logi Bro wrote: IRON PATRIOT 1 wrote: Logi Bro wrote: [Lol, I like that you haven't directly responded to any of my posts yet. Are you allergic to logic? Math means EVERYTHING in this game, this is the FPS version of Spreadsheets in Space, ffs. Because the math your putting out is not hard concrete facts its based off of a scenario of what could happen basically an estimation. 41.4% damage increase to a weapon with 3 complex damage mods and proficiency lvl 5 is a fact not the math you're doing. Ok, assuming you did your math right, so said the player had a 41.4% damage bonus? Same scenario, with a few changes. Player A has the three complex damage mods, maxed proficiency, and Player B has 3 complex shield extenders. Weapons have base of 100 DPS, and their suits have a base of 100 eHP. Player A is doing 141.4 DPS to a 319 eHP enemy. Player B is doing 100 DPS to a 100 eHP enemy. Player A kills Player B in 2.256... seconds. Player B kills Player A in 1 second. The guy with the extenders is killing more than twice as quickly as the guy with the damage mods. /thread Again that's if all your shots land another scenario that I don't care for. In that case the shield extender user still wins... If you really love crunching the numbers on this stuff, you should know this example is full of sh!t. You're using (approx) 1\3 the HP of an unmodded medium frame, 1/5 the DPS of a unmodded rifle, and 100% of the HP granted by arm/shield mods. The results may still end up favoring HP mods, but your "example" is hevily weighed towards them without the use of actual stats. "Have faith lest your unbelief consume you." -The Bleeding Chalice
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 6359	Posted - 2014.02.09 21:09:00 - [105] - Quote Happy Jack SD wrote: If you really love crunching the numbers on this stuff, you should know this example is full of sh!t. You're using (approx) 1\3 the HP of an unmodded medium frame, 1/5 the DPS of a unmodded rifle, and 100% of the HP granted by arm/shield mods. The results may still end up favoring HP mods, but your "example" is hevily weighed towards them without the use of actual stats. Thing is, with HP modules most medium frames have HP values matching the DPS of those rifles. So it's pretty accurate. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives. Tuna > Tacos
iOwn AE Glitchers Kinsho Swords Caldari State 70	Posted - 2014.02.09 21:11:00 - [106] - Quote How to fix damage mods- Move to low slots Make individual ones that do extra damage to either shields or armor, or a hybrid for 5% boost to both at proto level GG was VERY easy I slay for the Empress AE is my punching bag
Asha Starwind VEXALATION CORPORATION Partners of Industrial Service and Salvage 310	Posted - 2014.02.09 21:15:00 - [107] - Quote Damage mods should have been low-slots to begin with can't understand the reasoning why they were placed in the highs to begin with. 32db Mad Bomber.
IRON PATRIOT 1 Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 95	Posted - 2014.02.09 21:17:00 - [108] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: IRON PATRIOT 1 wrote: Cat Merc wrote: IRON PATRIOT 1 wrote: CCP can either do three things -Remove damage mods or nerf them -Buff Shield Extenders -Or nerf armor plates Or none of those. Call back to me when plates self regenerate at 40hp/s. (Coming in 1.8) Its called Allotek nanohives which all you gals use. We don't actually, because the CPU/PG requirements are hurrendos and we get an extremely gimped suit. Plus it's limited, nerfed in 1.8 with all the other hives, has limited range and forces you to stay still. You're going to have 40hp/s shield regen for free. Well if you put some shield extenders on maybe you could sacrifice a low slot or two for a cpu/pg upgrade. Now you can fit that allotek along with maybe a proto sidearm or nade.
Asha Starwind VEXALATION CORPORATION Partners of Industrial Service and Salvage 310	Posted - 2014.02.09 21:17:00 - [109] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Lynn Beck wrote: Replace them with: Heat sink- increases RoF of Laser weaponry- high slot Gyrostabilazer-increases RoF and effective range of Projectile weaponry- low slot Magnetic Field Stabilizer- increases RoF and damage of Hybrid weaponry- low slot These would help racially symmetrical fittings, such as Smg/Acr on a min assault. Edit- what these would actually modify are simply examples, as you would think a Heat Sink would decrease OH. Why would you ever want to buff RoF on any laser weapon? More shots fired before it over heats or seizes. 32db Mad Bomber.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 6813	Posted - 2014.02.09 21:23:00 - [110] - Quote Asha Starwind wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Lynn Beck wrote: Replace them with: Heat sink- increases RoF of Laser weaponry- high slot Gyrostabilazer-increases RoF and effective range of Projectile weaponry- low slot Magnetic Field Stabilizer- increases RoF and damage of Hybrid weaponry- low slot These would help racially symmetrical fittings, such as Smg/Acr on a min assault. Edit- what these would actually modify are simply examples, as you would think a Heat Sink would decrease OH. Why would you ever want to buff RoF on any laser weapon? More shots fired before it over heats or seizes. Unless the ScR abd Laser are given increased heat generation the Heat sink has no place in this game.....unless the heat sink decreased the overheat seizing time of an overheated laser weapon. "Just know that though our enemies may only #YOLO, through God's grace we can #YOLF at his side." - Disciple of Kesha

Henchmen21 Planet Express LLC 531	Posted - 2014.02.09 21:23:00 - [111] - Quote Knight Solitaire wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Knight Solitaire wrote: Damage mods need a penalty, I think they should increase the CPU of the weapons they effect, much like how it works in EVE. Actually they have no penalty EVE. They increase both damage and fire rate. https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Magnetic_Field_Stabilizer_II Really? I was sure thats how they worked, maybe I was thinking of Mining Laser Upgrades. It's rigs you were thinking of. CCP your our matchmaking sucks Henchmen21: Infantry Gotyougood Ufkr: Vehicles
Termin8ter The Enclave Syndicate Dark Taboo 0	Posted - 2014.02.09 21:24:00 - [112] - Quote How about this option. Every gun has its own slots just like a suit. The damage mods go on the gun instead of the suit then u can introduce new weapon mods such as bigger mags more fire rate ect.
Henchmen21 Planet Express LLC 531	Posted - 2014.02.09 21:27:00 - [113] - Quote Termin8ter wrote: How about this option. Every gun has its own slots just like a suit. The damage mods go on the gun instead of the suit then u can introduce new weapon mods such as bigger mags more fire rate ect. This is the far flung future we're talking about here, just because you can add attachments to today's guns means nothing on future weapons. CCP your our matchmaking sucks Henchmen21: Infantry Gotyougood Ufkr: Vehicles
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 9201	Posted - 2014.02.09 21:55:00 - [114] - Quote Asha Starwind wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Lynn Beck wrote: Replace them with: Heat sink- increases RoF of Laser weaponry- high slot Gyrostabilazer-increases RoF and effective range of Projectile weaponry- low slot Magnetic Field Stabilizer- increases RoF and damage of Hybrid weaponry- low slot These would help racially symmetrical fittings, such as Smg/Acr on a min assault. Edit- what these would actually modify are simply examples, as you would think a Heat Sink would decrease OH. Why would you ever want to buff RoF on any laser weapon? More shots fired before it over heats or seizes. Not really. It would allow you to fire more shots per second, provided you are somehow able to max out the RoF on the SCR - which mortals without modded controllers can't do. That wouldn't change the number of shots fired before seizing, it would simply change how quickly you can theoretically fire those shots. Do you mean to suggest a heat reduction? ZATARA CARRIES US ALL Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution MAG Raven
Auris Lionesse Capital Acquisitions LLC Renegade Alliance 177	Posted - 2014.02.09 22:02:00 - [115] - Quote The dark cloud wrote: lol precision enhancers, they do nothing to enhance weapon accuracy or performance people would just put shield extenders in the highslots instead. Then you can hear complains why people bricktank again. Damage mods are a counter for shield extenders/armor plates. The faster people die, the more they need to resupply and this means possible more profit for CCP by AUR sales. And you seem to forget that damage mods are aswell affecting AV weapons. By removing damage mods you would allow tanks to stomp even harder as they do now. your joking right lol? precision enchancers lower passive suit scan precision. not meant to make weapons more accurate
Happy Jack SD Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 72	Posted - 2014.02.09 22:07:00 - [116] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Happy Jack SD wrote: If you really love crunching the numbers on this stuff, you should know this example is full of sh!t. You're using (approx) 1\3 the HP of an unmodded medium frame, 1/5 the DPS of a unmodded rifle, and 100% of the HP granted by arm/shield mods. The results may still end up favoring HP mods, but your "example" is hevily weighed towards them without the use of actual stats. Thing is, with HP modules most medium frames have HP values matching the DPS of those rifles. So it's pretty accurate. I'm currently traveling, so I'll post some real numbers when I get home. My issue is that you're using a raw value module (Shield Extenders) against a percentage module (Damage Mods). However, the numbers you're using have been reduced, not affecting the raw value module but certainly affecting the percentage module. "Have faith lest your unbelief consume you." -The Bleeding Chalice
voidfaction Void of Faction 135	Posted - 2014.02.09 22:14:00 - [117] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: IRON PATRIOT 1 wrote: Cat Merc wrote: No, precision enhancers are neglected because of the **** base range on suits. You need TWO range amps to get 30m of range, and then you need precision enhancers to actually see anything. That's 3-4 modules on a suit that has 7 at prototype level. I am NOT going to spend so many slots on something my logi friend can do for me with a little scanner. Especially not when it means I lose armor plates/armor repairers/profile dampeners. As for the rest of the post, damage mods are being nerfed. And you Caldari whiners can suck it, you have all the utility modules in the world while Gallente have one, and you want to remove that one. Pathetic. Be honest with your self if range amps were better would you choose them ove dmg mods? No. 30m of range amplification is great for cqc. Only if range amps would give you +150%, and moved to high slots. I cannot justify spending more than two slots to see people. But if the base range was like 20m, then yes I would use precision enhancers. Yeah I love my scout with 2 complex range and 2 complex precision with its 16m base range soon to be boosted to 20. I guess If you really wanted to use precision enhancers you could go scout. if logi/assault/heavy got bumped to 20m I would want base 40 on my scout.
HYENAKILLER X KNIGHTZ OF THE ROUND Legacy Rising 564	Posted - 2014.02.09 22:26:00 - [118] - Quote The reality of what this topic touches on is systemic and not typically a symptom or just solved by isolating one thing or the other. Hard sp purchases and isk limitations literally hinder this game on every level to the point people have no choice but to obsess about what they dont have or cant afford. Different play styles and game functionality cannot be truly explored,understood or embraced on this style of timeline and economy. It will never happen. Its not possible and thats why it hasnt happened yet. You are welcome for my leadership. Proven Aggressive Type I have spoken.
Happy Jack SD Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 72	Posted - 2014.02.09 22:27:00 - [119] - Quote Our two combatants will be A with Damage Mods and B with Shield Extenders. A basic Caldari or Gallente suit has 330 total HP without skills. The basic AR does 425 dps. A has 330 HP and does 467 dps B has 396 HP and does 425 dps A kills B in 0.84s B kills A in 0.77s So, as we seen, the health granted by Shields is a minor boost to survivability. However, damage mods are most effective on Proto weapons, as the percentage yields higher numbers. The base DPS of a Douvale AR is 468.75, with a damage mod its 515.63. So: A has 330 HP and does 515.63 dps B has 396 HP and does 468.75 dps A kills B in 0.768s B kills A in 0.705s In conclusion, the difference is negligible. Shields have a numerical advantage, but the reaction time needed to take advantage of it is pretty much inconsequential. However damage mods on a proto weapon versus a basic weapon makes the difference much closer, and skills in weapon Proficiency and Shield/Armour Upgrades has the possibility of changing these numbers further in favour of Damage Mods. This only holds true on a 1 to 1 scale as Damage Mods have a stacking penalty. However one can stack 2 Damage Mods with minimal consequences, and if they still have high slots after, decide wether they want the extra 5% damage or an extra 66hp shields. "Have faith lest your unbelief consume you." -The Bleeding Chalice
Mobius Kaethis Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1240	Posted - 2014.02.09 22:36:00 - [120] - Quote Instead of removing them why not provide a larger variety of damage modifying modules: RoF modules, effective range modules, optimal range modules, mag size modules, dispersion modules, the list could go on and on. The point is that you are complaining that there isn't enough diversity of fits Iron Patriot, yet you are suggesting the removal of a module that provides a diversity of fitting options to Gal and Ammar suits. Why not just give us more options? More options means fittings would become more situation/map dependent and us armor tankers would have as many options as shield tankers. Fun > Realism



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