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I-Shayz-I
I-----I
2174
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Posted - 2014.02.04 00:03:00 -
[1] - Quote
I mean, part of what balances the Scrambler Rifle from being super OP is the fact that it stops firing after about 15-20 continuous shots. Why not apply this mechanic to the Rail Rifle too?
The reason this is a balancing factor is simply because of the range. If you've ever used a scrambler at long range, you'll know that cover is your best friend. If you accidentally overheat you have to retreat, which is much easier when you're in cover, than when you're face to face with the enemy.
However when you do engage an enemy at 10-15 meters and overheat, you have a massive disadvantage against a player using a short-range weapon that doesn't overheat.
The idea is that with an overheat mechanic, players would be less likely to spam the RR in CQC like they do now. With how hard it is for players to hit their target, chances are the RR user will most likely overheat before they can deal lethal damage. If they try and burst fire the weapon, they will be at a huge disadvantage against other weapons that are much more effective with burst firing thanks to the .25 second charge up time every time you let go of the trigger.
On top of this, the overheat will make the .25 second charge-up time feel much heavier. When you have to constantly stop firing to let your rifle cool down, you have to endure that charge up time every time you start firing again. It's either you endure the .25 second charge a few times, or you overheat your weapon and wait 5 seconds.
The best part is that at long ranges this hardly affects the weapon. As most of you know, the RR already kills most players in 3-6 shots, which means that unless you are a really bad shot, or if the player is at your max effective range, you won't ever overheat when you're using the weapon as it is designed.
After considering EVERY other option, this seems like the best way to add some balance to the weapon in a way that doesn't hamper its main ability to kill at optimal range, but decreases its effectiveness in the areas that it really shouldn't be so effective in.
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KING CHECKMATE
Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire
4365
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Posted - 2014.02.04 00:06:00 -
[2] - Quote
Ok. And we can give the Proto Combat Rifles a PG requirement of 20, SAME as the SCR rifle too :3
(Or are you going to tell me the CR is NOT OP.... X)..When its THE SAME as the RR )
AceOfJokers666 [ + ] AimBot / VALOR / MAG | YOU EITHER LOVE BACON OR YOU ARE WRONG
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I-Shayz-I
I-----I
2175
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Posted - 2014.02.04 00:10:00 -
[3] - Quote
KING CHECKMATE wrote:Ok. And we can give the Proto Combat Rifles a PG requirement of 20, SAME as the SCR rifle too :3
(Or are you going to tell me the CR is NOT OP.... X)..When its THE SAME as the RR )
CR needs to have a longer delay between bursts or a much more significant "barrel rise" when you fire so fast., that's why people consider it "OP" because you can time the trigger presses to make the weapon automatic, and the kick/barrel rise isn't significant enough to prevent people from using this technique.
However, the CR is the second shortest range rifle and therefore should be effective in CQC...just be happy that the CR can't do much damage past about 60-70 meters.
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Vin Mora
Sanguis Defense Syndicate
275
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Posted - 2014.02.04 00:11:00 -
[4] - Quote
KING CHECKMATE wrote:Ok. And we can give the Proto Combat Rifles a PG requirement of 20, SAME as the SCR rifle too :3
(Or are you going to tell me the CR is NOT OP.... X)..When its THE SAME as the RR ) Except that its not. CR has much shorter range.
And the Burst version is the 'OP' one (not really) because it doesn't have a forced gap between the bursts like the Burst AR.
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Miokai Zahou
The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine
127
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Posted - 2014.02.04 00:22:00 -
[5] - Quote
I-Shayz-I wrote:I mean, part of what balances the Scrambler Rifle from being super OP is the fact that it stops firing after about 15-20 continuous shots. Why not apply this mechanic to the Combat Rifle too?
The reason this is a balancing factor is simply because of the range. If you've ever used a scrambler at long range, you'll know that cover is your best friend. If you accidentally overheat you have to retreat, which is much easier when you're in cover, than when you're face to face with the enemy.
However when you do engage an enemy at 10-15 meters and overheat, you have a massive disadvantage against a player using a short-range weapon that doesn't overheat.
The idea is that with an overheat mechanic, players would be less likely to spam the CR at long range and apply it to mid/CQC like they are intended too. With how hard it is for players to hit their target, chances are the CR user will most likely overheat before they can burst spam to deal lethal damage at all ranges. If they try and burst fire the weapon at long range, they will be at a huge disadvantage against other weapons such as the Scrambler Rifle or the Rail Rifle because that is is their area of speacialistion, we all know the Combat Rifle currently virtually has no kick back at all.
On top of this, the overheat will make the burst fire/spam fire feel much heavier. When you have to constantly stop firing to let your rifle cool down, you have to endure the wait time every time you start firing or you overheat your weapon and wait 5 seconds.
The best part is that at long ranges this hardly affects the weapon. As most of you know, the CR already kills most players in 3rd rapid burst shots, which means that unless you are a really bad shot, or if the p with almost no recoil at your max effective range, you won't ever overheat when you're using the weapon as it is designed.
After considering EVERY other option, this seems like the best way to add some balance to the weapon in a way that doesn't hamper its main ability to kill at optimal range, but decreases its effectiveness in the areas that it really shouldn't be so effective in.
There fixed it for you. Your welcome.
Noob isn't really a status, it's the online equivalent of a 5-year old calling you a poopy fart head.
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PO0KY
Virtual Syndicate
35
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Posted - 2014.02.04 00:35:00 -
[6] - Quote
I'm in favor of any rail rifle nerf. |
Tweaksz
Crimson Saints
1
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Posted - 2014.02.04 00:59:00 -
[7] - Quote
Well IMO both the RR and CR need their due nerf but to avoid the QQ monster coming and chewing my head off, here's a possible idea. For one the RR is fine referring to damage/range but the matter is it's still effective in CQC, it needs probably just as other have suggested wider hipfire spread probably similar to that of the GLU-5. The CR... this weapon is a monster if you can time your trigger intervals well enough. Why? Simply because anyone with good enough timing or a Modded Control with this weapon WILL have the same RPM as its assault variant. Solution: add a jamming feature anyone who's using a mod control or gets too trigger happy will get their just reward.
Conclusion: These weapons aren't the game breaker as most people suggest they just need their balancing feature. P.S. .25 charge time on the RR is non-noticeable, it DOES NOT make an impact on CQC, not including its rather average RPM.
Raptor Squad
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ANON Cerberus
Tiny Toons
303
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Posted - 2014.02.04 01:13:00 -
[8] - Quote
The rifles all need to ACTUALLY work best and benefit in their desired optimal range. By EVE metrics it should be
-Blaster Rifle (AR) Close range -Combat Rifle close-mid range -Scram rifle mid-long range -Rail Rifle long range+
Or something like that.
Oh as an idea for the RR, turn it into single shot with a lower RoF? Probably not a very popular idea. |
Squagga
The State Protectorate
139
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Posted - 2014.02.04 01:16:00 -
[9] - Quote
OK let's all just calm down here. Stop saying all these anti-Caldari things everybody
Reloading, the silent killer.
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Asha Starwind
VEXALATION CORPORATION Partners of Industrial Service and Salvage
278
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Posted - 2014.02.04 01:23:00 -
[10] - Quote
Because that is dumb. That's like saying 'Blaster Turrets have an overheat function, why not the Assault Rifle..."
32db Mad Bomber.
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Quil Evrything
Triple Terrors
888
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Posted - 2014.02.04 01:41:00 -
[11] - Quote
Well, because blaster turrets have unlimited ammo, and the rifle doesnt.
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Racro 01 Arifistan
501st Knights of Leanbox INTERGALACTIC WARPIGS
145
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Posted - 2014.02.04 01:49:00 -
[12] - Quote
Quil Evrything wrote:Well, because blaster turrets have unlimited ammo, and the rifle doesnt.
we used to. but apparently people wenrt happy with that. even though they could bunny hop through the enitre blaster burst and forced us to over heat. so now we put up with both ammo and overheat. |
KING CHECKMATE
Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire
4371
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Posted - 2014.02.04 01:52:00 -
[13] - Quote
Vin Mora wrote:KING CHECKMATE wrote:Ok. And we can give the Proto Combat Rifles a PG requirement of 20, SAME as the SCR rifle too :3
(Or are you going to tell me the CR is NOT OP.... X)..When its THE SAME as the RR ) Except that its not. CR has much shorter range. And the Burst version is the 'OP' one (not really) because it doesn't have a forced gap between the bursts like the Burst AR.
Range is not an issue.
You are actually complaining about BAD map design and lack of cover rather than Range.
Me being a CQ specialist care not about Range, more about DPS. And when a Standard CR hits more and FAster while having less requirements and no drawback lthana PROTO SCR RIFLE, i think there is a problem here. (The only TRUE advantage SCR has is the Charge shot)
So you see, OPNESS is more of a POINT of view than a fact in this case.
SPECIALLY, since not even that many people are using RR's. I stumble upon more CR's than RR TBQH...
AceOfJokers666 [ + ] AimBot / VALOR / MAG | YOU EITHER LOVE BACON OR YOU ARE WRONG
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Heathen Bastard
The Bastard Brigade
845
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Posted - 2014.02.04 02:15:00 -
[14] - Quote
Asha Starwind wrote:Because that is dumb. That's like saying 'Blaster Turrets have an overheat function, why not the Assault Rifle..."
they do. It only comes into play on one model(krin's sin) but they do.
If you hear the words "WORTH IT!" look about, something hilarious just happened.
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Vapor Forseti
THE-TITANS
76
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Posted - 2014.02.04 02:20:00 -
[15] - Quote
WELL IT'S BECAUSE RR IS NOT AMARRIAN I GUESS.
/capz
Recruitment: https://dust514.com/recruit/Dk19AN
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Vin Mora
Sanguis Defense Syndicate
276
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Posted - 2014.02.04 02:32:00 -
[16] - Quote
KING CHECKMATE wrote:Vin Mora wrote:KING CHECKMATE wrote:Ok. And we can give the Proto Combat Rifles a PG requirement of 20, SAME as the SCR rifle too :3
(Or are you going to tell me the CR is NOT OP.... X)..When its THE SAME as the RR ) Except that its not. CR has much shorter range. And the Burst version is the 'OP' one (not really) because it doesn't have a forced gap between the bursts like the Burst AR. Range is not an issue.You are actually complaining about BAD map design and lack of cover rather than Range.Me being a CQ specialist care not about Range, more about DPS. And when a Standard CR hits more and FAster while having less requirements and no drawback lthana PROTO SCR RIFLE, i think there is a problem here. (The only TRUE advantage SCR has is the Charge shot)So you see, OPNESS is more of a POINT of view than a fact in this case.SPECIALLY, since not even that many people are using RR's. I stumble upon more CR's than RR TBQH... Like you say its all subjective (my POV vs yours) because I can't hit the broad side of a barn with with the regular CR, but with ACR, RR, and ARR I can drop people fast and consistently. In my hands, and possibly others, the CR is balanced, or even under powered.
I think that the RR is the strongest rifle right now because it does massive damage per shot, and has great range. I think its optimal range is close to that of the Laser Rifle. That is ridiculous.
Also, in my matches, I generally see far more RRs then CRs.
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Zerus Ni'Kator
Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic
196
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Posted - 2014.02.04 02:37:00 -
[17] - Quote
I-Shayz-I wrote:I mean, part of what balances the Scrambler Rifle from being super OP is the fact that it stops firing after about 15-20 continuous shots. Why not apply this mechanic to the Rail Rifle too?
The reason this is a balancing factor is simply because of the range. If you've ever used a scrambler at long range, you'll know that cover is your best friend. If you accidentally overheat you have to retreat, which is much easier when you're in cover, than when you're face to face with the enemy.
However when you do engage an enemy at 10-15 meters and overheat, you have a massive disadvantage against a player using a short-range weapon that doesn't overheat.
The idea is that with an overheat mechanic, players would be less likely to spam the RR in CQC like they do now. With how hard it is for players to hit their target, chances are the RR user will most likely overheat before they can deal lethal damage. If they try and burst fire the weapon, they will be at a huge disadvantage against other weapons that are much more effective with burst firing thanks to the .25 second charge up time every time you let go of the trigger.
On top of this, the overheat will make the .25 second charge-up time feel much heavier. When you have to constantly stop firing to let your rifle cool down, you have to endure that charge up time every time you start firing again. It's either you endure the .25 second charge a few times, or you overheat your weapon and wait 5 seconds.
The best part is that at long ranges this hardly affects the weapon. As most of you know, the RR already kills most players in 3-6 shots, which means that unless you are a really bad shot, or if the player is at your max effective range, you won't ever overheat when you're using the weapon as it is designed.
After considering EVERY other option, this seems like the best way to add some balance to the weapon in a way that doesn't hamper its main ability to kill at optimal range, but decreases its effectiveness in the areas that it really shouldn't be so effective in.
Nerf the SCR ROF on the semi Auto Weapon .. it is ridiculous that a semi auto weapon can be spam fired so fast ...
Why is the SCR so effective in CQC ? Everything you said could easily be aimed right back at the SCR too .. why does it's overheat mechanic not really effect the weapon ? Why is it so effective in CQC ??
As I keep saying .. sure nerf the RR/CR but you have to nerf the SCR at the same time |
Lorhak Gannarsein
Science For Death
1474
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Posted - 2014.02.04 02:42:00 -
[18] - Quote
Zerus Ni'Kator wrote:I-Shayz-I wrote:I mean, part of what balances the Scrambler Rifle from being super OP is the fact that it stops firing after about 15-20 continuous shots. Why not apply this mechanic to the Rail Rifle too?
The reason this is a balancing factor is simply because of the range. If you've ever used a scrambler at long range, you'll know that cover is your best friend. If you accidentally overheat you have to retreat, which is much easier when you're in cover, than when you're face to face with the enemy.
However when you do engage an enemy at 10-15 meters and overheat, you have a massive disadvantage against a player using a short-range weapon that doesn't overheat.
The idea is that with an overheat mechanic, players would be less likely to spam the RR in CQC like they do now. With how hard it is for players to hit their target, chances are the RR user will most likely overheat before they can deal lethal damage. If they try and burst fire the weapon, they will be at a huge disadvantage against other weapons that are much more effective with burst firing thanks to the .25 second charge up time every time you let go of the trigger.
On top of this, the overheat will make the .25 second charge-up time feel much heavier. When you have to constantly stop firing to let your rifle cool down, you have to endure that charge up time every time you start firing again. It's either you endure the .25 second charge a few times, or you overheat your weapon and wait 5 seconds.
The best part is that at long ranges this hardly affects the weapon. As most of you know, the RR already kills most players in 3-6 shots, which means that unless you are a really bad shot, or if the player is at your max effective range, you won't ever overheat when you're using the weapon as it is designed.
After considering EVERY other option, this seems like the best way to add some balance to the weapon in a way that doesn't hamper its main ability to kill at optimal range, but decreases its effectiveness in the areas that it really shouldn't be so effective in. Nerf the SCR ROF on the semi Auto Weapon .. it is ridiculous that a semi auto weapon can be spam fired so fast ... Why is the SCR so effective in CQC ? Everything you said could easily be aimed right back at the SCR too .. why does it's overheat mechanic not really effect the weapon ? Why is it so effective in CQC ?? As I keep saying .. sure nerf the RR/CR but you have to nerf the SCR at the same time
Overheat doesn't affect the weapon?
Have fun killing two guys. (Equal meta; proto v MLT doesn't count)
ScR requires far greater situational awareness than any of the other rifles; careful heat management is a necessity, and if you overheat, you can expect to die.
RR? I can dance through crowds.
Happily printing ISK with permahardeners and MLT blasters.
Just let me get a couple mil more before nerf, CCP!
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KING CHECKMATE
Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire
4377
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Posted - 2014.02.04 02:49:00 -
[19] - Quote
Vin Mora wrote: Like you say its all subjective (my POV vs yours) because I can't hit the broad side of a barn with with the regular CR, but with ACR, RR, and ARR I can drop people fast and consistently. In my hands, and possibly others, the CR is balanced, or even under powered.
I think that the RR is the strongest rifle right now because it does massive damage per shot, and has great range. I think its optimal range is close to that of the Laser Rifle. That is ridiculous.
Also, in my matches, I generally see far more RRs then CRs.
In my hands: With the STD combat rifle (Prof 3) i 2 shot scouts. I 3-5 shot MEd frames I kill a heavy in around 12-14 bursts (which aint that bad considering i have 18 Bursts , so i have left around 4 so i can even kill another Med frame before reloading..)
You think the RR is the strongest rifle right now because it OUT RANGES your CR. Which means, you are doing something wrong if you are in this situation rather frequently.
Massive damage per shot means if you miss a single bullet, you loose a LOT of DPS. So here is your SECOND issue: Aim Assist. Or as i said before, Map design is just bad.
So its not really the weapon that its OP, more like Dust514 conditions favor it over the other rifles.
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Vin Mora
Sanguis Defense Syndicate
276
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Posted - 2014.02.04 02:51:00 -
[20] - Quote
KING CHECKMATE wrote:Vin Mora wrote: Like you say its all subjective (my POV vs yours) because I can't hit the broad side of a barn with with the regular CR, but with ACR, RR, and ARR I can drop people fast and consistently. In my hands, and possibly others, the CR is balanced, or even under powered.
I think that the RR is the strongest rifle right now because it does massive damage per shot, and has great range. I think its optimal range is close to that of the Laser Rifle. That is ridiculous.
Also, in my matches, I generally see far more RRs then CRs.
In my hands: With the STD combat rifle (Prof 3) i 2 shot scouts.I 3-5 shot MEd framesI kill a heavy in around 12-14 bursts (which aint that bad considering i have 18 Bursts , so i have left around 4 so i can even kill another Med frame before reloading..) You think the RR is the strongest rifle right now because it OUT RANGES your CR. Which means, you are doing something wrong if you are in this situation rather frequently. Massive damage per shot means if you miss a single bullet, you loose a LOT of DPS. So here is your SECOND issue: Aim Assist.Or as i said before, Map design is just bad. So its not really the weapon that its OP, more like Dust514 conditions favor it over the other rifles. Honest statement: I have only noticed auto aim working twice, and neither of those two times did it actually assist in me in get a kill.
Then again, I think that its effects are inverse to your sensitivity, and my i have mine at around 30 each.
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Fizzer94
L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
1882
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Posted - 2014.02.04 03:32:00 -
[21] - Quote
Nerf the RR by widening its hipfire by about 200%. Buff its optimal range by 10 meters, up to 90. Nerf the CR by adding a 0.05 second delay between bursts, and make it kick slightly more than other rifles. This will allow exactly 5 bursts per second, or 480 max DPS down from 640 DPS. Nerf the ScR by reducing it RoF from 705 to 570. This will allow 9.5 shots per second, or 684 max DPS from 846 DPS Nerf the ARs optimal range by 15 meters, down to 45. Buff its damage from 34 to 38. This will increase its DPS to 475 from 425.
Now we have this.
AR: Powerhouse in Close Quarters Combat. Ineffective at longer ranges. CR: Powerhouse in Close-Mid Range Combat. Has more range than AR, but also has a smaller mag size and more kick. ScR: Capable of great DPS and range. Overheat functions keep this weapon balanced. RR. Has good DPS and great range. Unwieldy in close quarters combat.
Yours Truly,
Reginald Fizzer94 Delafontaine III, Esquire
MAG ~ Seryi Volk Executive Response
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XxArrowxX
Northwind Alliance Dark Taboo
9
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Posted - 2014.02.04 03:51:00 -
[22] - Quote
Here we go again jeez |
Ghost Kaisar
Titans of Phoenix Legacy Rising
2643
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Posted - 2014.02.04 08:05:00 -
[23] - Quote
Racro 01 Arifistan wrote:Quil Evrything wrote:Well, because blaster turrets have unlimited ammo, and the rifle doesnt.
we used to. but apparently people wenrt happy with that. even though they could bunny hop through the enitre blaster burst and forced us to over heat. so now we put up with both ammo and overheat.
Try bunny hopping through blaster fire now.
If you can't kill your target with a large blaster in less than 15 shots, you shouldn't be in a tank.
Nothing says "F**K YOU!" like a direct Flaylock to the face.
Minmatar. In Rust we trust.
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Ghost Kaisar
Titans of Phoenix Legacy Rising
2643
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Posted - 2014.02.04 08:07:00 -
[24] - Quote
Fizzer94 wrote:Nerf the RR by widening its hipfire by about 200%. Buff its optimal range by 10 meters, up to 90. Nerf the CR by adding a 0.05 second delay between bursts, and make it kick slightly more than other rifles. This will allow exactly 5 bursts per second, or 480 max DPS down from 640 DPS. Nerf the ScR by reducing it RoF from 705 to 570. This will allow 9.5 shots per second, or 684 max DPS from 846 DPS Nerf the ARs optimal range by 15 meters, down to 45. Buff its damage from 34 to 38. This will increase its DPS to 475 from 425.
Now we have this.
AR: Powerhouse in Close Quarters Combat. Ineffective at longer ranges. CR: Powerhouse in Close-Mid Range Combat. Has more range than AR, but also has a smaller mag size and more kick. ScR: Capable of great DPS and range. Overheat functions keep this weapon balanced. RR. Has good DPS and great range. Unwieldy in close quarters combat.
I support this. This seems very well done.
I'm not sure about how the RR's Hipfire being increased by 200% though. Not sure how the numbers would affect it.
I just want the RR to function like the Tac AR when hipfired. Have you tried using the Hipfire Tac AR? Dispersion makes the bullets go EVERYWHERE.
Nothing says "F**K YOU!" like a direct Flaylock to the face.
Minmatar. In Rust we trust.
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Alena Ventrallis
The Neutral Zone
625
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Posted - 2014.02.04 08:33:00 -
[25] - Quote
Rail Rifle shouldn't have overheat. It should charge between each shot and a lot of bullet damage but a slow fire rate.
CR should have longer intervals between bursts.
Best PVE idea I've seen.
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Django Quik
Dust2Dust.
2125
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Posted - 2014.02.04 08:51:00 -
[26] - Quote
I support RR overheat but all the rifles need a tuning and none should be balanced against only themselves. Pistols, SMGs, heck even shotguns get outclassed at CQ by any and all rifles. Hipfire on all of them should be much worse and aim assist should not function at all with them inside 10m.
I like Fizzer's ideas for all the rifles - they'd still be strong but they'd have very diverse strengths and be more situational; much like how the new suit setups will make each race/role strong in particular areas and weak in others - currently every rifle is good at pretty much all situations.
Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot
Scout community is the nuts
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Korvin Lomont
United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION
576
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Posted - 2014.02.04 08:51:00 -
[27] - Quote
Asha Starwind wrote:Because that is dumb. That's like saying 'Blaster Turrets have an overheat function, why not the Assault Rifle..."
Tha assault Rifle has an overheat function...and once overheated it jamms... |
Spectral Clone
Dust2Dust. Top Men.
1165
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Posted - 2014.02.04 09:13:00 -
[28] - Quote
I-Śll accept overheat mechanic when RR also get splash damage.
Prepare for 1.8: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPhISgw3I2w
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CCP Logibro
C C P C C P Alliance
4693
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Posted - 2014.02.04 10:25:00 -
[29] - Quote
Moved to Feedback/Requests
CCP Logibro // EVE Universe Community Team // Distributor of Nanites // Patron Saint of Logistics
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BL4CKST4R
WarRavens League of Infamy
1813
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Posted - 2014.02.04 11:13:00 -
[30] - Quote
Even with overheat the railgun turret is OP as hell. Regardless our form of overheating is alien to how overheating works in EVE, our way is a cheap balancing mechanic that avoids any real balancing. I honestly think overheating should be removed from every weapon and balanced to simulate the effects of overheat for example a smaller clip for the SCR. The only weapon that I think should overheat is the laser rifle and SCR because that simulates it's damage getting stronger, and the SCR should overheat entirely on the charged shot.
Although weapons should all overheat when damage mods are being used.
With that aside the rail rifle would just need a DPS reduction, along with other long range weapons, to be balanced. Similarly this balance shouldn't only just apply to rifles but other weapons also, for example the ion pistol is the shortest ranged and lowest DPS gun in the game... In reality it should be the shortest ranged highest DPS sidearm. But unfortunately those titles go to the magsec smg and the scrambler pistol both of which have the highest range of all the sidearms...
Armor and Shields are not the same!
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