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Atiim
Living Like Larry Schwag
4246
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Posted - 2014.01.31 04:11:00 -
[1] - Quote
Should they also remove the ISK generated from all of the exploits used, such as "district locking?"
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Glass Zeraki
The Phoenix Federation
5
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Posted - 2014.01.31 04:21:00 -
[2] - Quote
No. Some Corporations simply don't get attacked very often and legitimately earn their ISK. |
Atiim
Living Like Larry Schwag
4250
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Posted - 2014.01.31 04:26:00 -
[3] - Quote
Glass Zeraki wrote:No. Some Corporations simply don't get attacked very often and legitimately earn their ISK.
I'm not saying "remove all ISK generated from Molden Heath"
I'm talking about the ISK generated from creating alt corps and no-showing the battle; as well as other forms of "district locking."
Corps who legitimately earn their ISK wouldn't be affected.
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Glass Zeraki
The Phoenix Federation
5
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Posted - 2014.01.31 04:31:00 -
[4] - Quote
I understand what you mean, but that would be extremely difficult if not impossible to track and pinpoint the specific actions taken by so many Corporations. |
JL3Eleven
1686
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Posted - 2014.01.31 04:38:00 -
[5] - Quote
lol. Their will be no "fix". It's only Illegal when CCP says it is. Until then it's fair game. I know it sucks but that's how CCP operates.
I will pay 1 Billion ISK for a Thale's TAR-07 Sniper Rifle BPO.
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mollerz
Minja Scouts
2154
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Posted - 2014.01.31 04:38:00 -
[6] - Quote
Glass Zeraki wrote:I understand what you mean, but that would be extremely difficult if not impossible to track and pinpoint the specific actions taken by so many Corporations.
Remember when they gave people too much ISK back for whatever they messed up and took it back putting people negative?
Same exact situation. They should definitely take the time to fix their own game. Unless they like getting taken advantage of? The wealth that was exploited wasn't just a little bit of ISK. It's game breaking, provides infinite, at this point, advantage to a small player base, and will ruin the player market immediately upon launch.
It isn't fair to the other players to supply this gigantic of an advantage to a small player base and expect their game to flourish. Which is what the game has become. Unless they want to have a little private circle jerk with the same players until they decide to stop paying for their playground.
CCP needs to fix it completely.
You gotta hustle if you wanna make a dolla
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Atiim
Living Like Larry Schwag
4252
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Posted - 2014.01.31 04:39:00 -
[7] - Quote
Glass Zeraki wrote:I understand what you mean, but that would be extremely difficult if not impossible to track and pinpoint the specific actions taken by so many Corporations.
This game is server-sided, so to my knowledge everything is saved to a log (a list if you will).
Just remove the ISK generated from all battles that were listed as no-shows.
Difficult, but not impossible.
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Auris Lionesse
Capital Acquisitions LLC
Renegade Alliance
112
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Posted - 2014.01.31 04:40:00 -
[8] - Quote
They should take it back, give those corps a week long time out and an apology to the rest of the playerbase for their poor design. |
mollerz
Minja Scouts
2157
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Posted - 2014.01.31 04:40:00 -
[9] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Glass Zeraki wrote:I understand what you mean, but that would be extremely difficult if not impossible to track and pinpoint the specific actions taken by so many Corporations. This game is server-sided, so to my knowledge everything is saved to a log (a list if you will). Just remove the ISK generated from all battles that were listed as no-shows. Difficult, but not impossible.
A little bit of script with some pixie dust will fix that right up in less than a few seconds.
You gotta hustle if you wanna make a dolla
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Himiko Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution
Covert Intervention
2870
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Posted - 2014.01.31 04:42:00 -
[10] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Shouldn't they also remove the ISK generated from all of the exploits used, such as "district locking?"
No, because it isn't an exploit. It's an obvious use of incredibly dumb game mechanics.
I told CCP exactly what would happen before they officially set it up this way. They even responded to my thread directly and said "it might be a problem, but we'll deal with it later."
Well, that was months ago. It's currently later. Can't punish the players for CCP neglecting what anyone could've seen was an obvious problem before it was even implemented. I certainly didn't ask for the game to be played this way, but as long as it IS played this way I intend to try and win it. |
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Glass Zeraki
The Phoenix Federation
6
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Posted - 2014.01.31 04:43:00 -
[11] - Quote
You make good arguments here Atiim...I suppose if were possible for CCP to do it then I'm all for it. |
Mobius Wyvern
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
4550
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Posted - 2014.01.31 05:05:00 -
[12] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Shouldn't they also remove the ISK generated from all of the exploits used, such as "district locking?"
I still don't get how it's okay that you get ISK payouts for PC. I mean, not only are you either taking or defending resource generating territory, but you're getting paid by the game to do so?
PC has a hell of a lot of issues.
Amidst the blue skies
A link from past to future
The sheltering wings of the protector
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Atiim
Living Like Larry Schwag
4253
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Posted - 2014.01.31 05:09:00 -
[13] - Quote
Himiko Kuronaga wrote:Atiim wrote:Shouldn't they also remove the ISK generated from all of the exploits used, such as "district locking?" No, because it isn't an exploit. It's an obvious use of incredibly dumb game mechanics. I told CCP exactly what would happen before they officially set it up this way. They even responded to my thread directly and said "it might be a problem, but we'll deal with it later." Well, that was months ago. It's currently later. Can't punish the players for CCP neglecting what anyone could've seen was an obvious problem before it was even implemented. I certainly didn't ask for the game to be played this way, but as long as it IS played this way I intend to try and win it.
As for CCP saying "we'll deal it later," well that's truly facepalm worthy,.
However, CCP's lack of competence aside, district locking has still allowed unintended billions, if not trillions of ISK to flood into the market. When p2p trading is implemented, this will become a huge problem.
CCP broke a very important rule in terms of a virtual economy. You never, ever, allow people to have a theoretically infinite amount of money. When the majority of the people on these forums consider 50mil to be "chump change". there is a problem.
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Skihids
Bullet Cluster
Legacy Rising
2783
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Posted - 2014.01.31 05:10:00 -
[14] - Quote
Glass Zeraki wrote:I understand what you mean, but that would be extremely difficult if not impossible to track and pinpoint the specific actions taken by so many Corporations.
On the contrary, it's probably a couple SQL queries to the database.
Select all attacks where a clone pack was used and nobody showed up to use it.
Add up all the days a district was locked that way to determine the profit generated per district.
Bam, done. |
Atiim
Living Like Larry Schwag
4253
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Posted - 2014.01.31 05:11:00 -
[15] - Quote
Mobius Wyvern wrote:Atiim wrote:Shouldn't they also remove the ISK generated from all of the exploits used, such as "district locking?" I still don't get how it's okay that you get ISK payouts for PC. I mean, not only are you either taking or defending resource generating territory, but you're getting paid by the game to do so? PC has a hell of a lot of issues.
PC should generate ISK, but not nearly as much as it is currently.
If we removed PC's ability to gain ISK, then nobody would play it. Who would throw PRO suits and billions of ISK into a meat grinder for no reward?
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deepfried salad gilliam
Sanguine Knights
412
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Posted - 2014.01.31 05:13:00 -
[16] - Quote
its not that hard to pinpoint, its like finding a screeming tortoise in a hay stack
they usually come to formums and talk about it,
just drain all corps involved to 0 isk and any alt corp they have and remove 2/3 isk from people on forums admitedly isk farming
Proud Christian
one of the most essential parts of eve is left out of dust: freedom, exploration, open-world gameplay.
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Viktor Hadah Jr
Critical-Impact
2275
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Posted - 2014.01.31 05:14:00 -
[17] - Quote
No, District farmers are buying my Proto suits.
Selling Rare Templar BPO's 250Mil ISK
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Skihids
Bullet Cluster
Legacy Rising
2783
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Posted - 2014.01.31 05:15:00 -
[18] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Himiko Kuronaga wrote:Atiim wrote:Shouldn't they also remove the ISK generated from all of the exploits used, such as "district locking?" No, because it isn't an exploit. It's an obvious use of incredibly dumb game mechanics. I told CCP exactly what would happen before they officially set it up this way. They even responded to my thread directly and said "it might be a problem, but we'll deal with it later." Well, that was months ago. It's currently later. Can't punish the players for CCP neglecting what anyone could've seen was an obvious problem before it was even implemented. I certainly didn't ask for the game to be played this way, but as long as it IS played this way I intend to try and win it. As for CCP saying "we'll deal it later," well that's truly facepalm worthy,. However, CCP's lack of competence aside, district locking has still allowed unintended billions, if not trillions of ISK to flood into the market. When p2p trading is implemented, this will become a huge problem. CCP broke a very important rule in terms of a virtual economy. You never, ever, allow people to have a theoretically infinite amount of money. When the majority of the people on these forums consider 50mil to be "chump change". there is a problem.
PC is a huge ISK faucet, nay, water main break. It's gushing a fountain of ISK into select players hands.
CCP stares at it and leans on its collective shovels saying, "Eh, we'll get to it after lunch". |
AP Grasshopper
The Unit 514
166
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Posted - 2014.01.31 05:17:00 -
[19] - Quote
No. Whats done is done, but there is no going back on a mistake made in New Eden. That goes for respecs too. |
DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
10464
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Posted - 2014.01.31 05:18:00 -
[20] - Quote
You have great faith in CCPs ability to monitor their own game.
If they could track that, you think they would have caught this issue LONG ago, particularly considering how long they've been warned about it.
Damage is done, and I don't see it being healed anytime soon.
Videos / Fiction
Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
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Izlare Lenix
FREE AGENTS LP
115
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Posted - 2014.01.31 05:27:00 -
[21] - Quote
Clone packs should not be refunded if a PC battle is not fought, like a no show match. The fact that district lockers get their clone packs back after a no show battle is stupid. And that is how they are making ISK. The problem would solve itself if they lost clone packs when they locked their own districts. Some corps might still do it but at least they don't be making ISK off that broken mechanic. |
m twiggz
Pradox One
Proficiency V.
316
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Posted - 2014.01.31 05:27:00 -
[22] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Shouldn't they also remove the ISK generated from all of the exploits used, such as "district locking?"
No ISK should be generated by districts sitting idle with no battles. This would cut down on the amount of districts corps want to own, being that the only reason most corps hold districts is for the ISK not the competitiveness. This way corps who want to PC for the competitive side of Dust may have a better chance without a giant blue donut holding 50% of the districts farming ISK.
Increase the player payout per win, implement a minimum amount of players from defending corp/alliance and attacking corp/alliance that must be in battle (thus no 15 ringers in a battle), lower the cost of clone packs so indie corps have a chance of at least tasting PC without going broke (or bring back corp contracts), have timers span more than one time a day: example; timer set for 10 UTC can be attacked between 8 UTC and 12 UTC - attacker picks time (would make international PC timers more viable to be attacked, also more viable for international corps to attack), etc etc.
Just a few ideas I had. I feel they would benefit everyone equally, besides ISK farmers. |
Atiim
Living Like Larry Schwag
4257
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Posted - 2014.01.31 11:59:00 -
[23] - Quote
Viktor Hadah Jr wrote:No, District farmers are buying my Proto suits.
And that's a relevant argument, how exactly?
If I abused a mechanic to allow me to gain unfathomable amounts of ISK in EvE, then said not to remove the ISK because it's how I buy my Titans, would that fly?
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Spectral Clone
Dust2Dust.
Top Men.
1135
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Posted - 2014.01.31 12:04:00 -
[24] - Quote
Auris Lionesse wrote:They should take it back, give those corps a week long time out and an apology to the rest of the playerbase for their poor design.
This.
Prepare for 1.8: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPhISgw3I2w
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steadyhand amarr
Bragian Order
Amarr Empire
2227
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Posted - 2014.01.31 12:06:00 -
[25] - Quote
I cant see how they can undo the damage the isk blanace in the gan
me is beyound broken any player market will be instantly wreaked by crazys price lockouts. The only way i can see to fix this is too have a full isk wipe everyone back to 0.
But hell would freeze over before that happens lols
"i dont care about you or your goals, just show me the dam isk"
winner of EU squad cup
GOGO power rangers
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Atiim
Living Like Larry Schwag
4257
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Posted - 2014.01.31 12:06:00 -
[26] - Quote
AP Grasshopper wrote:No. Whats done is done, but there is no going back on a mistake made in New Eden. That goes for respecs too.
This is more than a "simple mistake."
It involves the economy, which is something very serious in CCP's book.
The ISK that has been generated was not generated legitimately, so you have have billions (possibly trillions) of "counterfeit" ISK flooding the economy.
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Atiim
Living Like Larry Schwag
4257
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Posted - 2014.01.31 12:09:00 -
[27] - Quote
steadyhand amarr wrote:I cant see how they can undo the damage the isk blanace in the gan
me is beyound broken any player market will be instantly wreaked by crazys price lockouts. The only way i can see to fix this is too have a full isk wipe everyone back to 0.
But hell would freeze over before that happens lols
Skihids wrote:
On the contrary, it's probably a couple SQL queries to the database.
Select all attacks where a clone pack was used and nobody showed up to use it.
Add up all the days a district was locked that way to determine the profit generated per district.
Bam, done.
Keep in mind, this game is server-sided.
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ANON Cerberus
Tiny Toons
241
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Posted - 2014.01.31 12:12:00 -
[28] - Quote
steadyhand amarr wrote:I cant see how they can undo the damage the isk blanace in the gan
me is beyound broken any player market will be instantly wreaked by crazys price lockouts. The only way i can see to fix this is too have a full isk wipe everyone back to 0.
But hell would freeze over before that happens lols
While that would remove the obscene amounts of isk in the game, those of us that are poor, those of us that have grinded battle after battle to get that isk would be very mad and out right quit.
However as it stands IF we ever do get a player market, when people have half a billion isk + (I'm sure people individually have billions, I know the PC farmer corps will have billions, if they are not making that per day) the market will be ruined. |
steadyhand amarr
Bragian Order
Amarr Empire
2229
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Posted - 2014.01.31 12:13:00 -
[29] - Quote
Its how do u split the expoliters from the small timers who got lucky i think with a player market a fefull isk reset is justified
"i dont care about you or your goals, just show me the dam isk"
winner of EU squad cup
GOGO power rangers
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Skihids
Bullet Cluster
Legacy Rising
2787
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Posted - 2014.01.31 14:28:00 -
[30] - Quote
CCP tracks everything. They are obsessed with data.
I'm a database professional and I'm certain that they can identify and track every last ISK generated by this locking strategy if they stored a few bits of information such as attack method and the battle result. It's not a tedious bit of accounting. One query and you have a report of every corp's total ill gotten gain. Another and you have the total dispersals you can use to raid player wallets if the corp wallet comes up short.
They have the means. The question is if they have the will, and that's what most concerns me.
Do they care about their game enough to shut off the faucet and mop up the mess, or don't they?
It's an indicator of how the rest of development will go. Can we expect a well balanced game, or will they just throw a bunch of crap together and call it a day? |
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Atiim
Living Like Larry Schwag
4264
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Posted - 2014.01.31 14:35:00 -
[31] - Quote
steadyhand amarr wrote:Its how do u split the expoliters from the small timers who got lucky i think with a player market a fefull isk reset is justified
Everyone would quit. That's not an exaggeration either. Everyone who is not a new player would leave this game forever.
See. The people who don't participate in PC yet have fat stacks of cash deserves their fat stack of cash, simply because they played smart, budgeted their wallets, and knew when to start using the cheap gear.
They played smart, they held down their funds, so they deserve to keep the ISK.
The people who locked districts however, were basically printing counterfeit ISK by abusing game mechanics.
Only ISK generated from no-shows would be removed. "Small timers" who weren't locking won't be affected.
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Matticus Monk
Ordus Trismegistus
1107
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Posted - 2014.01.31 14:38:00 -
[32] - Quote
This is new Eden.
The place where "your choices have consequences."
Unless you are exploiting one of the many game-breaking glitches, mechanics or "features" of the current build. If that's your situation then don't sweat it, you're "all good, bro"
(for the dim-witted readers among us, yes this **** should be fixed and all the ill-gotten ISK should be removed)
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Alaika Arbosa
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc.
Interstellar Murder of Crows
1447
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Posted - 2014.01.31 14:46:00 -
[33] - Quote
Mobius Wyvern wrote:Atiim wrote:Shouldn't they also remove the ISK generated from all of the exploits used, such as "district locking?" I still don't get how it's okay that you get ISK payouts for PC. I mean, not only are you either taking or defending resource generating territory, but you're getting paid by the game to do so? PC has a hell of a lot of issues.
Which is why it should be excised from the game (Asset & Liquid wealth generated as well) and rebuilt from the ground up.
The system has been broken since day 1 and we told them that when they showed us a dev blog about it before them.
What did they do? Still released a broken feature.
A very small percentage of the playerbase actually participates in PC and this very small percentage has also been the main contributors to the abysmal conditions in pubs which lead many new players to say "**** THIS ****" and flip the desk.
They've joked about how they've simply been farming the system essentially since it began as well as putting out videos of them blatantly manipulating the system to keep their passive cash cow safe as well as generating 200k+ SP payouts (thereby bypassing the "need" to grind SP in pubs and allowing them to simply protostomp anyone who isn't willing to kiss ass/suck **** to have even the slightest chance of really prospering in MH).
It isn't our fault that they are the last ones left holding the Soggy Blueberry Muffin, now lets make them eat it.
They did this to themselves, now CCP should make them lie in the bed they've made with absolutely 0 sympathy.
Praise St. Arzad and Pass the Nanohives
Karin Midular, gone, never forgotten
Executing Amarr Trash since Closed Beta
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Skihids
Bullet Cluster
Legacy Rising
2789
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Posted - 2014.01.31 14:48:00 -
[34] - Quote
Fixing the problem and cleaning up the mess is not a punishment.
CCP did it once before when they accidentally handed out extra ISK, so there is a precedent.
It's not like that was any different than handing out money for district locking.
It won't require drastic actions like zeroing out every wallet in the game. You needn't get alarmed.
They can surgically remove the "bad ISK" from the game. |
Kristoff Atruin
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
1608
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Posted - 2014.01.31 14:56:00 -
[35] - Quote
This is why they were being so cautious about integrating Dust with the Eve economy. Either they need to remove isk from the economy or, after they fix the PC exploiting, inflate the value of everything and pump pub match rewards way up. It would be kind of silly paying as much isk for a dropsuit as an eve player does for a frigate, but we might have to accept a small absurdity like that to get things into balance.
If they leave it like it is though, when they turn on player trading what'll happen is officer weapons any anything not available on the npc market will cost millions of isk. If manufacturing is introduced, then anything player made will cost millions to buy. It'll create a two-tier player population. The PC farmers will become an aristocracy who can buy anything and everything and everyone else stuck running starter fits. |
Atiim
Living Like Larry Schwag
4287
|
Posted - 2014.02.01 04:51:00 -
[36] - Quote
bump
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Dusters Blog
Galactic News Network
602
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Posted - 2014.02.01 05:01:00 -
[37] - Quote
the short answer is yes, but CCP is on shaky ground because they excused district locking on more than one occasion.
our battery of questions for CPM1 candidates: http://tinyurl.com/mjvwe7f
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Bradric Banewolf
D3M3NT3D M1NDZ
The Umbra Combine
72
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Posted - 2014.02.01 05:14:00 -
[38] - Quote
Himiko Kuronaga wrote:Atiim wrote:Shouldn't they also remove the ISK generated from all of the exploits used, such as "district locking?" No, because it isn't an exploit. It's an obvious use of incredibly dumb game mechanics. I told CCP exactly what would happen before they officially set it up this way. They even responded to my thread directly and said "it might be a problem, but we'll deal with it later." Well, that was months ago. It's currently later. Can't punish the players for CCP neglecting what anyone could've seen was an obvious problem before it was even implemented. I certainly didn't ask for the game to be played this way, but as long as it IS played this way I intend to try and win it.
Yep, I remember the fair amount of players saying this might happen this way. CCP either didn't respond at all, like they normally do, or just shrugged it off. Now they're bs on bringing out a p2p trade/market?! Wonder why?
"Anybody order chaos?"
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straya fox
Sad Panda Solutions
177
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Posted - 2014.02.01 05:20:00 -
[39] - Quote
Yeah it's sh*t like this that will severely delay the P2P market. Was looking forward to it soon but i can't see how CCP can implement it with corps holding billions of ISK, every single officer weapon and BPO will be snapped up by 2 or 3 corps who will create a monopoly. |
Chunky Munkey
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
3032
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Posted - 2014.02.01 05:55:00 -
[40] - Quote
Glass Zeraki wrote:No. Some Corporations simply don't get attacked very often and legitimately earn their ISK.
I have to agree with Alt McShadybastard here.
No.
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